hinduveer

Its time to take action and confront this on a national level, than just talk!

Mandirs and gurdwaras NEVER discuss this issue in a positive practical way, i mean look atda issue of 2 to 3 hindu sikh girls abducted a week?

Dust ji makes valid good points

Ur wrong genie ji, its a caste thing, not a relogious one. The guy is a churah, marrying a jatt, that is what they are claiming. Plenty of hindu sikh marriages happem every week and its never a problem. Problem only arises when its involving low castes with high castes. Sad but true

Truly sad, maybe hindus and sikhs shud do something productive and humanitarian by helping these poor girls and families out?

Lets try discussing this and exchanging information on this topic, as I want to garner as much insight as possible.

From my understanding, AFTER partition, and I emphasise the word AFTER, NOT before or DURING, just AFTER partition of India and Pakistan, their was a sizeable population of SikhS and Hindus who stayed behind in what is modern day Pakistan.

When I say 40 % , I am talking 10's of millions of people, what happend to them, where are they now?

I ask this because at the last Pakistani censues which I believe was in 2002, ( I could be wrong as it may have been 2001), 97% of Pakistan was MUSLIM, 2% Hindu/Sikh and 1 % Christian.

I believe that pre partition, Lahore was the business capital of Punjab and had a majority Hindu Punjabi populas, I also know that Sindh had a huge Hindu/Sikh population.

How can it be that in 1947 - Pakistan = 57 % per cent Muslim, (3 % Christian) and 40 % Sikh/Hindu (approx 30-40 million people) and just 55 years later (in 2002) the Hindu/Sikh population is reduced to just 2 %? With Muslims being 97% of the population?

What do YOU think happened to all these people? 1. Killed? (possibly) 2. Migrated to India (unlikely with stringent border controls) or FORCIBLY CONVERTED? ( in my view very Likely).

What are YOUR views?

Btw, calofornia , no the practice of mixed punjabi and sikh families is not dead in india or uk. We have very large hindu sikh rajput presence in uk and india, and are linked by blood ties and pyar. I also know of many sunyar, brahmin, jat mixed hindu sikh families. Now meeting a brahmin sikh, surname or ghotra CHIBBAR, was a shocker, lol as i didnt know they existed, but why not hey, ? Bhai mati das and sati das were brahmin caste, right?

California sardar ji, good discussion and its nice we agree on a lot of things. I enjoyed ur post. Thanks only five ji, for pointing out kds, and altho i got very good answers to the rubbish he talks, with proof, I wont bother now, as I dont want to discuss with a troublemaker. Sat sri akal to u kds.

Gurmukh ji, your english is fine dont worry.

I also agree with soem of yoru points but disagree with others, I will explain:

1. Due to the empire of Asokha ( who was a Buddist), Much of modern day Afghanistan and Pakistan was Buddist when India was first attacked, and it was many them that were covnerted to Islam during and after the first tiem India was attacked in the year 652ad. It was only the Hindus, mainly rajputs adn jatt tribes that put up a resistance.

2. Dara Sikoh was power hungry adn hsi aim was to conquer and rule, however due to his lack of resources, terrain, and strong resistance was unable to establish muslim rule.

3. Gajnavi was also stopped by OUR ancestors and the best he could do was loot like a thief!

4. Mahmus Gauri, only established rule over modern day afghanistan, pakistan and very northern parts of India, He didnt even rule 20 per cent of modern day INDIA.

5. Even the strongest of Mughal rulers Aurangzeb, couldnt defeat the Great Marathas, led by Chhatrapatti Shivaji, Baji Rao, and their successors, and in 1679, Aurangzeb raised the largest army the world had ever seen at the point consisting of 600,000 soldiers and 400,000 elephants and horses and went to the state of Maharashtra, where he spent the last 25 years of hsi life in VAIN trying to defeat the marathas, until he died aged 90 in 1707. Even so the Marathas were undeterred and remained Hindu and protected central and southern India. In the north Guru obind Singh ji and the khalsa were fighting off Wazir Khan, Aurangzebs Governor of Punjab.

6. By the time the British arrived and established rule, the Mughal raj had already been severly defeated in most parts of India, and thats why even at independance ONLY around 14 per cent of India was MUSLIM.

7. The religions adn the people of the middle east FELL to Islam within 20 years of Mohammeds passing, but our India never did!

8. Kashmir was the centre of Hindu society for the Kashmiris, but not for Hindus in general, as Kurukshetra, Ayodhya, VARANASI, where Hindus to bathe in the river Ganges, and the tempels buitl by Raj Raja in the SOUTH of India were the centres of Hindu Society.

Here are the centres of Hindusim in different parts of India :

North Indian temples

Kedarnath Temple dedicated to Shiva, in Kedarnath, UttarakhandHindu temple at Tilla Jogian, PakistanMost ordinary temples in North Indian rituals are very simple in stark contrast to South Indian temples which have elaborate rituals. Also North Indian temples often tend to be less orthodox and in many cases everybody are permitted to enter the innermost sanctum of the deity and worship the deity personally. In such cases, the deity is not adorned with valuable jewelry. The innermost heart of the temple is the sanctum where the deity (usually of fixed stone) is present, followed by a large hall for lay worshipers to stand in and obtain "darshan" or divine audience. There may or may not be many more surrounding corridors, halls etc. However there will be space for devotees to go around the temple in clock wise fashion circumambulation as a mark of respect. In North Indian temples, the tallest towers are built over the sanctum sanctorum.

One example of a type of more elaborate North Indian temple is the style of temple known as the Shikharbaddha Mandir found in Northern and Western India, and particularly famous in the Swaminarayan Hindu tradition. These temples have towers, or shikharas, built over the sanctum sanctorum, in which the deity is installed.^[6]

South Indian temples

Temple in KeralaBalaji temple of TirupatiMany large bannabs (grand stone temples) still stand in South India. Ritual tends to be orthodox and elaborate especially in the large vedic brahmincal temples, which follow the pan-Indian Sanskrit agama scriptural traditions. Apart from the main fixed stone deities, processional deities made of panchaloha (an alloy of gold, silver, copper, zinc and tin) are bathed, dressed, decorated with valuables and taken out in processions for festivals throughout the year. The richer the temple, the more elaborate the festivals. However, many ancient temples in small villages with great architectural and historical heritage value languish for lack of funds for maintenance.

Famous South Indian temples are Thirupati temple, Andhra; Mookambi temple, Karnataka; Chennakesava temple, Belur (Karnataka); Sri Padmanabha Swamy Temple, Kerala; Sabarimala temple, Kerala; Guruvayoor temple, Kerala; Kodungallor temple, Kerala; Anikkattilammakshethram, kerala; Kanyakumari temple, Tamilnadu (TN); Madurai Meenakshi Amman Temple, Tamilnadu; Srirangam Ranganathar temple and Thiruvanaikaval temple of Tiruchi, TN; Golden Temple of Sripuram, TN; Brihadeshwara temple, Thanjavur, TN; oldest temples such as Kailasanathar^{[disambiguation needed]} temple, Varatharajaperumal temple, Kamakshi temple and Ekambareshwarar temple of Kanchipuram, TN; Thirukadiyur Abirami temple, TN; Andal temple, Srivilliputhur, TN; Natarajar temple, Chidambaram, TN; Kumbeshwara, Kumbakonam, TN; Thiruvannaamalai temple, Tamil Nadu; Palani temple, Tamilnadu; Kodungallor temple, Kerala; Chettikulangara Devi temple, Kerala; Aranmula Parthasarathy temple, Kerala; Tripunithura sree Poornathrayesa, Kerala.

[edit] Temples in Orissa & other parts of India

<A class=internal title=Enlarge href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jameswar_Temple.jpg' class='thumbimage' alt='""' /><A title="Yameshwar Temple" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yameshwar_Temple">Yameshwar Temple near <A title=Bhubaneswar href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhubaneswar">Bhubaneswar,Eastern IndiaTemples often greatly vary in their appearance, rituals, traditions, <A class=mw-redirect title=Festivals href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festivals">festivals and customs from region to region. Temples in eastern state of <A title=Orissa href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orissa">Orissa and <A class=mw-redirect title="Western India" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_India">Western India also have their distinctions. In the south, Kerala temples are very different from temples in the other three states.

<A class=image href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Konark_Temple.jpg"> <A class=internal title=Enlarge href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Konark_Temple.jpg' class='thumbimage' alt='""' />(<A class=mw-redirect title="Sun Temple" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Temple">Sun Temple at Konark,Orissa)

The most world famous temples i.e. <A class=mw-redirect title="Jagannath temple" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagannath_temple">Jagannath temple at Puri, <A class=mw-redirect title="Sun temple" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_temple">Sun temple at Konark, <A class=mw-redirect title="Lingaraj temple" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingaraj_temple">Lingaraj temple at bhubaneswar are found in Odisha. These temples are over 1200 years old. In Bhubaneswar, around 10,000 temples are present which represents strong Hindusim in Orissa.

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The Hindu punjabis and the Sikhs defended North of India VALIANTLY and were most under attack, however India is larger than the whole of europe, and saying we saved the people of Orissa or Tamil Nadu, or Calcutta or the would be like saying I ( sitting in london) saved someone living in Athens Greece, or Moscow, Russia!

We should NEVER discredit the efforts of those Hindus - MORE IMPORTANTLY humans who defended themsleves and their lands in other parts of modern day INDIA,

California sardar, how ya doin?

I will try to answer yoru question as follows :

1. Hindu punajbis formed the Khalsa army under Guru Govind Singh adn became part of hsi army / panth to fight the mughals, there families at the time, ie sisters, brothers, parents would most likely have remained Hindu, AGAIN THERE WASNT at the time such a clear distinction between who is hindu and who is sikh.

You see it wasnt a case of Hindus being butchered by muslism and the sikhs arrivign form the moon to save them!!! lol

2. Now lets say you are a Hindu punjabi and your ELDER brother joined the khalsa panth and became known as a sikh, however by the time you grew older you did not chose to join, and became a farmer or business man, YOU BOTH would still be brothers, and your children would still be cousins.

3. Over time, after the passing of the sikh gurus, and the time of the British empire, when one of the requirements of joining the British army was to be a Khalsa, many Hindu punjabis in punjab, wanted theor sons to join the british army as it paid well, and offered status and therefore had no problem, with their son being regarded as khalsa or sikh.

4. I am a Hindu punjabi - Rajput - by caste, and my dads uncles are/were sardars and my dads first cousin ( mums brothers son), is a nihung in punjab! When we meet him, and his kids, we are 1 family and the word hindu or sikh doesnt come into it. His son is also a nihung and is my 2nd cousin, but to me he is just my younger cousin, and !

Although this tradition is now dying out as the distinction between who si sikh and who is Hindu is becoming stricter, THERE are many HINDU PUNJABI FAMILIES WHOSE FIRST COUSINS ARE SIKH PUNJABI.

5. My best friend is a Dhillon (Hindu punjabi - jat ), whose dad is a Hindu punjabi, but his dads brother is a Sardar and calls himself a Sikh, and hsi kids are jat - SIKH, lol

You see it wasnt a matter of Hindu punjabis seeking protection from Sikhs, it was themselves who became a part of the khalsa army to defend themselves as they had been doing for 100's of years, and just as some members of the family became khalsa, many remained HINDU. but again this doesnt detract fom the blood ties and relations, adn LOVE families have for one another. this also accounts for why many sikh families stil practice rakhri, lohri which are Hindu traditions.

I hope I have answered your question, Peace

25 years? will come out in 10, what a JOKE

Very sad, what tragic end of a life, that dirt bag Farrell should be hanged by law, he has not only taken one life he has ruined the life of the mans son, and wife, and other family members.

Tytler is a disgrace to the word SIKH, he is not a true sikh or Indian.

I personally believe he is guilty too, and should be punished, problem is he is politically very powerful in India, BUT then again so are the likes of BADAL ,Sidhu etc, why dont they DO ANYTHING?

Completely agreed with Dogra when he says :

Disgraceful excuse.

Those politicians that came up with that, need to think other groups have their marriage acts, so therefore Sikhs, ,Jains and Bhuddists rightly should have theirs as well.

Considering the delay to Anna Hazares anti corruption bill, just gives an indication to the corrupt individuals present in the govenment at current time.

Either have one secular marriage act, or many religious marriage acts for all faiths including Sikh, Jain and Bhuddist faiths!

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Either have ONE secualr Indian marriage law Act for everyone including MUSLIMS, but if there gonna give muslims a sharia law marriage Act, then why deny our sikh brothers/sister? ridicilous! Either one rule for all under INDIAN or give all relgiosn the right o have their own marriage acts

That clocks actually insulting to hindus, its not as if the Hindus were getting killed by muslims and sikhs landed from the moon? lol

It was the Hindu punjabis themselves that made up the Khalsa army under Guru Gobind Singh. after the fighting, many of them remained as Sikh whilst others went back to their Hindu religiuos ways, There wasnt such a strict dividing line, religious wise in those days.

AS FOR HINDUS DEFENDING THEMSELVES AND THEIR DHARMA, dont forget at patiton 84 per cent of India was still Hindu, ( if Hindus were that weak, and bearing in mind that siksh were in only in punjab how come the other parts of India still remained Hindu, if Hindus were that weak surely the other parts of India would all have been muslim? )

......and if I take you back further, dont forget that after Prophet Mohammed died in 632, Islam was spread by teh swrod over modern day iran, iraq, syria, turkey, afghansitan etc within 20 years,and India was first attacked in 652, and was defended valiantly for 450 years by Hindu warriors/Rajputs until the first Islamic rule was established in 1000ad, in modern day Pakistan parts of north india, even then the hindus valiantly kept on fighting and guru nanak ji was born a in 1469, in a Hindu family, this is evidence itself that Hindus managed to preserve their identity in punjab, north India, Almost a 1000 years before nanak devji's birth.

East, West and South parts of India were also valiantly defended, although it wasnt under the barage of attacks, Punjab was under

My uncles are Sardars, but their dad was a Hindu, its just the way things were done, up unitl as recently as 60 - 70 years ago, when one son would became a sikh in the Hindu family.

As for Santa and Banta, it was a Sikh historian/journalist Mr Khushwant singh who started the Santa banta thing, as Jassa ji, has so eloquently said, So why not balme him instead of blaiming Hindus and makiing conspiracy theories?

BOTTOM line is ALL the Hindus (mostly Hindu punjabis), I know respect and have love for Sikhs and we dont see you guys as competition or a seperate race or as an enemy, like some of YOU see us!

We see you as a seperate relgion but as our Dharmic brothers neverthelss, a family.

I comment on this whole thing as follows:

1. My sympathies go out to the 3 young men who died and their families

2. Tariq Jahan and the elder brother of the two boys who died, BOTH spoke well and seemed genuine

3. However, Upinder from Sangat TV, seemed far too FILMI, especially the way he was hugging the bold muslim chap, a bit toooo long that was uncomfortable viewing.

Upinder seemed to be doing it more for his OWN image etc. I MEAN, HE WAS TRYING SO HARD TO CRY! LOL, BUT THE FAKE TEARS WOULDNT COME OUT, THEN WHILE HE WAS HUGGIN THE CHAP, HE SIGNALLED SOMEONE AWAY WITH HIS RIGHT HAND, which indicates he wasnt really that upset, lol.

4. Over the top sucking up from the 2 elder Singhs at the end, FUNNILY enough the only genuine people in the whole video were the 2 muslim chaps who had lost family members, Never said that before!

I think Sangat tv have gone well beyond their duties to the MUSLIM community, and should go back to being a SIKH sangat channel, rather than what the singh said at the end of the video when he said sangat was a community channel.

I agree with Pal07 and Paneer monster, who have summed it up well

SOMEBODY TELL UPINDER HIS 15 MINUTES OF FAME ARE UP. He's quite entertaining though, I think he's been watching to many of the old Michael jackson interviews, I LOVE YOU,....CRY.....I love you..... Heal the world.......(Birmingham), Make it a Halaal place...... for me and for you and the entire birmingham Pakistani race, there are...... Pakistanis dieing.... and if you care enough for the living, make a kebab place, a halaal place...(IN UNISON) ..HALAAL the world.......

Santa Banta are old PUNJABi names used by US punjabis as rhyming slang, they are not used to make fun of sikhs, Rinku and Tinku, or Monni and Sonni its just the punjabi way to have nick names for characters to have a bit of banter, check out the old mehar mittal films

musicman said:

Media persons need to stop generalising asians and painting asians with the same brush, they should be specific in their news reports and mention pakistani's instead of terming them simply asian and in turn dragging all of us in.

100 per cent agree

Inqlabi said :

Any idea where was that warrior name Anjeem Chowdhary and his fudu gang called Islam for UK?

They were probably hiding in the local kebab shop!

I agree with Hammertime when he says :

I can understand why some Sikhs are wary of them, however allot of this is due propaganda from the so called Unite against Fascism, who are made up of Muslims Radicals, and extreme Communists.

There are some people in the EDL who may think all the brown people are the same, and they should be educated on the subject.

The major players in the EDL know the score.

Gurdssinghji made good points too, however the issue of religion in the case if extremist Islam needs to be addresed as it is the CAUSE of the problem. Im glad the english often say Pakistani Muslim, as they at least have some idea of the differences between us, and dont group us all as P@kis

One day the goreh are gonna get so <Edited> off wiv pakistanis and extremist Islam, they r gonna get militant, i just hope they dont take it out on da rest of us

I support edl in their fight against extremist ISLAM, and the pakisyani grooming gangs

Inqalabi ji, these muslims are NOT stronger than us INDIANS, its just that our people are prpfessionals and business people with families amd fear god. We got no time for crime amd gangs

Like these bangladeshis pakis who are on benefits etc

Singh559 ji, fair enuf my friend. I support real sikhs like u, inqualabi and many here for ur fight for justice, u will get it one day. Jai mata di inqualabi ji , i agree wiv u

Bhai Gurdasji's explanation of VAHEGURU

Vaar 1 Pauri 49 vaheguru mantar

sathijug sathigur vaasadhaev vaavaa vishanaa naam japaavai

In Satyug, Visnu in the form of Vasudev is said to have incarnated and ‘V’ Of Vahiguru reminds of Visnu.

Line 1

dhuaapar sathigur hareekrishan haahaa har har naam dhhiaavai

The true Guru of dvapar is said to be Harikrsna and ‘H’ of Vahiguru reminds of Hari.

Line 2

thraethae sathigur raam jee raaraa raam japae sukh paavai

In the the treta was Ram and ‘R’ of Vahiguru tells that rembering Ram will produce joy and happiness.

Line 3

kalijug naanak gur gobindh gagaa govindh naam japaavai

In kalijug, Gobind is in the form of Nanak and ‘G’ of Vahiguru gets Govind recited.

Line 4

chaarae jaagae chahu jugee panchaaein vich jaae samaavai

The recitations of all the four ages subsume in Panchayan i.e. in the soul of the common man.

Line 5

chaaron ashhar eik kar vaahiguroo jap manthr japaavai

When joining four letters Vahiguru is remembered,

Line 6

jehaan thae oupajiaa fir thehaan samaavai

The jiv merges again in its origin.

Line 7

Vaar 1 Pauri 49 Waheguru mantar

SOURCE : http://searchgurbani.com/main.php?book=bhai_gurdas_vaaran&action=pauripage&vaar=1&pauri=49

Thanks

This is ridicilous, standing in a park buring the Indian flag, WHILST YOUR FACES ARE COVERED, lol, so that when you go to India the same people you claim are weak, dont beat u up? lol

I support the Sikh call for justice for 1984, but that was the fault of the Congress govt and the scum bags wihtin it. Why are u hating on the country the land of your ancestors and 1 billion people who live there?

Cowardly actions like this is what turns otherwise SYMPATHETIC people away from your OTHERWISE just cause.

kHALISTAN = land of the pure ( pure minded/souls) not people like the cowards in this video