UKLondonSikh

UKL = 100% agree with you Paji UKL = Agreed Paji UKL = I agree with you Paji UKL = Agree with you Paji UKL = Good point Paji UKL = 100% agree with you. Shabad Bani is our true Guru without a doubt. UKL = Absolutely not Bhai Sahib. Sikhi is universal and for the illiterate as well as the literate. Gurbani can vocally be heard by the illiterate as well and thus we will often find more dedication to Sikhi amongst the illiterate than amongst the so-called educated classes. UKL = But Lucky Singh Paji it is strongly believed by many that Naam Simran must be accompanied by practical action towards Sarbat Da Bhala in order to avoid it becoming a modern day ritual. Spiritual attainments surely only accompany practical action, would you not agree Paji? UKL = 100% agree with you Sunny Paji UKL = I agree with you Aman Singh. Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj were not their own prayers to themself as Mool Mantar clarifies clearly. UKL = Paji it's ironic since our Guru Sahib wholeheartedly rejected Jesus, Krishna and Ram being Avtars of God that Vedc influences have seen certain Sikhs copy the Christians and Hindu's in this avtar-hood game when Shabad Bani (Guru) is supreme Truth. UKL = Agree with you Sunny Paji UKL = I agree with you Paji and given the Beadbi of Maharaj online, i think we need to keep cooler heads in instances of physical beadbi of saroops ... as it was pointless for three Gursikhs serve out decades rotting in jail over that Pakhandi Sadh in Rajasthan Surajmani ... when they could have more constructively help the Qaum by being active and free to tackle abortion clinics, drug and alcohol peddlars as well as those that discriminate in Punjab or those bureaucrats that do not help our Panth's children gain an adequate education.

UKL = Shamshere Paji i respect your interpretation but I'm just going to put below yours my interpretations. UKL = Obviously we have our own interpretations as brothers within one Panth.

UKL = Excellent and very deep points made by Mehtab Singh Paji. But I think we shouldn't look at Hindu's from the lens that Mehtab Singh Ji is suggesting. We need to look at every so-called Hindu as a future Sikh and try by all means to delcassify them as Hindu and include them within the Sikh Panth. That way we weaken our bureaucratic opponents political base whilst strengthening our own. As the RSS philosophy has cleverly been to define as many people as possible (including Sikhs) as Hindu's whilst defining who is a Sikh to as small a section of the population as possible. And we've been neaive enough to fall for it. So we need to turn the tables and look at every avenue of turning so-called Hindu's into members of the Sikh Panth (regardless of if they keep kes or not). Once more people feel welcome in the Sikh Panth the more Amritdhari GurSikhs we will see in due course. Username 1 = I want to convince them about Baba Guru Nanak dev ji. I think trying to attain khalistan will make it difficult to spread Sikhi among people. If langar-degh was spread all over hindustan there would be no one sleeping hungry in India UKL = If we do more seva and parchaar and Langar provision ... then all of present day India ... can become Khalistan by virtue of being a majority Sikh state. UKL = Gurds Singh Paji ... we don't need to believe in or respect something just because our ancestors did. I don't believe in any miracles relating to Sikhi because I believe our Guru Sahiban wholeheartedly rejected miracles. When tens of millions of people were slaughtered in Genocides in the last century there was no miracle to save them, so it's pretty fanciful for us to believe in virgin births, monkey gods or Arab slavetraders splitting the moon. Ask yourself this who is worthy of more respect ... a torso that fights with decapitated head ... or a Mahapursh Shaheed that despite a grevious neck wound the was losing blood fought to the very end so long as they could utter "Bole So Nihal - Sat Sri Akaal". As for 1699, if the blood on Guru Sahib's was those of the rotten masands does that make the bravery of our Panj Pyaaray any less? I humbly suggest to you that it doesn't. There are no gaddars that we look up to as religious figures as Sikhs. UKL = Shaastar Paji the Muslim Khatri's (such as the Chinioti Shaikhs) de facto control much of Pakistani Punjab's industry UKL = As usual, you're absolutely right Jonny Paji. All of the population of present day India should respect Shaheed Bhai Beant Singh and Shaheed Bhai Satwant Singh as Desh Bhagats of the highest order. Our Shaheeds sacrificed their lives for the raksha of innocent civilans. Sadly Congress still managed to implement much of their Genocidal plans upon our Qaum. UK = Khalsa Ji you're absolutely that Valmiki was a Brahmin (who is used as a ploy by our Panth's enemies to stop wider knowledge spreading in India of who exactly Bhai Jiwan Singh Ji was) and Vyas is always accepted as a Brahmin ... though similar to the Valmiki ploy ... has recently been coined off as non-Brahmin by clever Hindutva forces who recognise him as Brahmin amongst their own ... but utilise the fisherman connection to appeal to Dalits that they are "Hindu" (when in fact all Dalits are natural born Sikhs if only they knew). UKL = Great point as always Jashb Paji ... and I think we as Sikhs constantly need to ram home the message to members of our Panth that 80% of Jatts are proud Muslims and Hindu's such as the 1st Prime Minister of Pakistan and marauding 1947 mobs that killed 20% of our Qaum in Pakistan and others like Sajjan Kumar and the Delhi Police Jatts who played such an active role in killing Sikhs in 1984. That's why apartheid biraderi mentality within the Panth cannot be tolerated from any sections that participate in it and united saanjhe Gurdware in London, the Diaspora and especially Punjab are an absolute must if we hope for our Panth to ever progress.

Great shout Inderjit Singh for posting this.

UKL = Exactly Paji. Everyone in the Panth wholeheartedly supports Bhai Gurbaksh Singh Khalsa's sacrifice and commitment for the Panth via the medium he has taken. But what he can achieve alive and active in the next 30 years imho is far far more than he can achieve as a Shaheed. Watching his speeches on TV i'm just amazed at his physical condition and strength and alertness. But I think we need to draw a line in the sand after Bhai Sahib reaches Sri Akal Takht Sahib that no Gursikh will ever fast and potentially risk their life in this manner, when we need years and years of active Dharam Yudh from all dedicated Dharam Sewaks to roll back the effects of the last 30 years of Genocide. UKL = The prisoners issue is about straightforward justice and must be pursued but we cannot lose sight of the fact that illiteracy, drugs, female infanticide, biraderi controlled golaks and alcohol are killing or destroying millions of Sikhs lives as opposed to the lesser numbers of our innocent long-suffering political prisoners and their families. All of the Unity we have right now has to be channelled on attacking those modern day channels of our ongoing Genocide. I don't think we need pledges from people who are not seeing the bigger picture in terms of where our Qaum is today compared to 30 years ago ... we just have to play our own part and get everyone we know on the same agenda for total upliftment of the Panth (rather than just our innocent prisoners). It was Sangat pressure that finally got the main so-called Sant Baba's at Gurdwara Amb Sahib at the last minute as Sant Samaj knew they were losing credibility and had to save face so I think most ordinary Sangat can see that pledges from those who didn't care in the early stages might not be too wholehearted.

UKL = You're absolutely right Paji. The Hindu's and Muslims despise Sikhi and the Khalsa Panth because they can see that the Khalsa Panth is about true equality and brotherhood. Nowhere in the history of India and Pakistan can it be seen that those of oppressed backgrounds made up a majority of the armed forces. To this day the Indian and Pakistani armies are composed of mostly so-called high caste officers with only cannon fodder ranks seeing Dalit or low caste Muslim representation in India and Pakistan respectively. UKL = I agree with you that anti-Sikh criminals like KPS Gill, General Brar, Dera Sirsa wala Sidhu and the Radha Swami Dhillons all hail from the Jatt tribal identity. But equally we must respect all those mahaan souls whose ancestry was from the Jatt tribal background prior to initiation in the Khalsa Panth. So I think the bottom line is that anyone who sees themselves as a hyphenated Sikh does not have 100% loyalty to the Panth. Jonny101, N30 Paji and Singh559 were all Jatts prior to becoming Amritdhari and I couldn't be more proud of them for abandoning their erstwhile cultural identities in contrast to so many in Punjab who have failed to do so even in 2013. UKL = You're absolutely right that Baldev Singh and his cohorts influenced the 1940's SRM towards defining a Sikh a certain way so as to deliberately exclude tens of millions of erstwhile non-Punjabi (overwhelmingly Dalit) Hindu brothers and sisters from joining the Sikh Panth at the behest of their Congress and RSS allies. UKL = Paji jeri Qaum de Gurdware bande ho'ay ne na ... oh Qaum ki karoo ... sab tho paila sanu harek pind te harek ilaqe vich ik saanjha Gurdwara chaida Sangat vasthe ... je assi es kam nu na kar sakke 2021 thaq ... saade RSS dushmana ne sanu East Punjab minority banaa dehnai Delhi di sahaitha naal. UKL = There is a deliberate reason why the RSS and Congress/BJP are afraid of the population of Punjab having greater knowledge of who Bhai Jiwan Singh Ji were (because all their multiple 115 crore Balmiki Mandirs would collapse under the weight of truth) because only the Panth knows who was the bravest. There is a reason why Congress and Dera Ballan are scared at the mention of Shaheed Baba Sangat Singh Ji and how Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji appointed him commander of the Sikh Fauj against the murderering soldiers from the Islamic Empire because the lie that Dera Ballan propagate is that Chamars cannot be Sikh (whereas the Truth is that only Sikhs are true Ravidasia as we bow before Shabad Guru before Congress and the RSS concocted this rival ghost-written so-called bani and a creed that rejects everything that Dhan Dhan (Gur) Ravidas Ji Maharaj stood for. Everywhere in Sikh history our enemies look they will find esteemed Gursikhs of various backgrounds who all had one thing in common - regardless of their individual family ancestry, none had pride in the such ancestry (as Guru Sahib emphasised "kul nash") and recognised all humanity as one equal family. The minute we ordinary Sikhs start to follow in their footsteps and destroy all apartheid thinking within the community our Qaum will once again be unstoppable in marching towards Sarbat Da Bhala.

UK = Well said DM Singh. Not just the Sikh Qaum - one day the whole of India should recognise our Mahaan Shaheeds for sacrificing their own lives to avoid further bloodshed and Genocide of the innocent in the way Indira and Congress at that time had planned. Personally I believe IGI airport should be renamed in their honour - but the only way we will achieve that is by explaining to more so-called Hindu's what Gurbani is, what it means and what it stands for in terms of the transformation for justice and equality Sikhi can bring to society. UK = Well said acsap Paji UK = Singh4Peace Paji ... Bibi Bimal Kaur Khalsa was killed by the central government (it was no random accident). I agree with you that the kin of our shaheeds should not sponge off the Qaum - but equally we must not allow them to go without support (which has often happened and which Khalsa Aid and others have highlighted). The success of Sikhi outside of Punjab will be measured by how many schools we see named after these three Mahaan Shaheeds in Delhi within 20-40years. The drugs connection is a familiar RSS refrain. They blame the Sikhs in the widows colony for being on drugs and they blame the sons of our Shaheeds for being on drugs (often falsely to malign them) because in RSS ruled India the rapist is never at fault - the blame always lies with the rape victim. UK = DSGj bir'ay I believe Bhai Kehar Singh Ji was actually instrumental in both Bhai Beant Singh Ji (his relative) and Bhai Satwant Singh Ji's journeys deeper towards the Khalsa Panth and the Khalsa ethos of self-sacrifice for the greater good of humanity.

UK = DSG Paji ..All Paji was saying is that because you have misgivings that part of what is collectively termed SG nowadays was not written by Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj many will assume that it makes you DSGj an anti-Sikh agent. My viewpoint on another subject has always been the direct opposite of yours. But you know what, even if I disagree with 100% on that, your passion for Sikhi shines through. So why not all of us debate academic issues with pyaar and focus repeatedly on what unites us in the agenda to achieve Panth ki Jeet? The outside haters seek to divide our Panth and looking at multiple village Gurdware our enemies are doing a very successful job. But all of us from all shades of the spectrum that see the prem for Sikhi in another need to unite ... given that in the Census of 2021 our enemies aim to make us a minority in East Punjab. When tyres and kerosone to effect Genocide against the Sikh Qaum nobody really bothered to check the intracies of each individual Shaheed's belief. That sums it up as to why we need to continually see that we are all on the same side as often as possible - even though we have our full rights on each other to debate academically with pyaar where we see one agenda as better for progress of the Panth than another.

In the spiritual sense Lucky Paji is absolutely right ... that very limited are the numbers of those true blessed (Gur)Sikhs ... but in the cold hard political landscape (where population demographics matter) that has forced our Qaum to endure repeated Genocides at the hands of our enemies ... we need to widen what a Sikh means to encompass as many decent people as possible and thereby simultaneously reduce the political base of our Panth's enemies. At a stroke the vasty majority of so-called Hindu Punjabi's, Sindhi's, Satnami's, Kabirpanthi's, Jatavs, Vanjara's and many Adivasi tribes and Dalits that previously took to Sikhi prior to 1947 would all be re-integrated into a stronger and more diverse Panth (which would be less parochial and less inward looking and would thus look at the bigger global agenda for seva more with its greater collective power to fight in the best way possible for Sarbat Da Bhala). That would mean re-instituting the general Puratan definition of a Sikh as being anyone who bows before Maharaj.

UKL = ... Continuing on (after a technology glitch) ... the 1% land area I was referring to was Majha and Malwa as currently Doaba is entirely lost from the "cause" with so-called Hindu's the majority of the Doaba population nowadays with the likely current assumption that they would very much vote as the Punjabi speaking folks in Kangra district (Himachal) did during the Punjabi Suba movement. UKL = As you rightly say Paji: jashb = The biggest revenge on these racist RSS types would be to liberate the majority inhabitants of not just India but also Waheguru's entire green earth from every form of racist, oppressive, totalitarianist ideology. jashb = Yes - that includes the racism, oppression and totalitarianism inherent in the Hinduism, Islam, and Christianity of those respective scriptures, besides countless others!!! jashb = Now that truly would be the biggest and best answer to 1984!!! UKL = Sikhi, Sarbat da Bhala, Kirat Karna, Naam Japna, Vand Shakna are the ONLY true solution to all the injustice this world has to offer and quite clearly the agenda for global justice (Begumpura everywhere) can only be achieved via Global Khalsa Raj with Sarbat Da Bhala as its guiding motto. Only a global Khalsa Fauj of millions (amongst the seven billion on the planet) can prevent future repeats of Genocides like our own, of the Jews, of Tutsi's in Rwanda, of innocent people in DR Congo and the tens of millions of Africans that the Christians and Muslims enslaved and raped (which to a degree the believers in Manu Smriti managed to copy in India). But in order to get to that global vision we need to eradicate our own community's issues in relation to alcohol, drugs, infanticide, illiteracy and biraderi cancer first. VJKK VJKF

^ Jashb Paji you absolutely hit the nail on the head above. Many of us, for understandable reasons, restrict our vision to around about 1% of the area currently controlled by the terrorist central authority of India ... namely those areas of Punjab, in which if there ever was a refereferundum as is to be held in Scotland next year, we could conceivably imagine a majority voting for freedom from terrorist puppet masters in Delhi.

Can anybody inform me what Panthpreet Singh Khalsa Ji lies about in the following: (where he openly says the truth in relation to Bhai Rajoana) (where he talks about the importance of not copying Hindu+Muslim yatra's) (where he openly says the truth in relation to Professor Bhullar)

UK = Jash Bir'ay more great posts by yourself yet again. However, I'm going to selectively pick out some parts where I think a different strategy to yours may be more fruitful for Panth Ki Jeet in the long term: UK = Again Paji i agree with much of what you say above. I would suggest, however, that our Hindutva oppenents are primarily limited to elite politically powerful minorities within the main so-called "forward" castes (primarly 30% Brahmins, 30% Rajputs/Jatts, 30% Bania's). I estimate that the core Hindutva support is limited to no more than 5% of the so-called Hindu population within India as the majority of even the 5crore Brahmins themselves live in poverty ... as where innocent Brahmins encounter Sikhi they often historically turn to it as we see demographically in Jammu and areas like Joshi Matt in Uttarakhand near famous Gurdware in the vicinity. Nevertheless those monetarily+politically influential minority elements within the three main so-called forward castes that have a vested interest in Indian society remaining a fertile breeding ground for corruption via their use of divide and rule and discrimatory policies do openly despise and hate Sikhi and musters the political will behind that by making natural non-Hindu's such as Dalits, Tamils etc imagine that they are part of this mythical "Hindu" family ... it's up to us as Sikhs to play our part stop this trend and encompass as many as we can within the Sikh Panth in response as a united block working for Sarbat Da Bhala and an end to terrorism and corruption operated from Delhi since 1947. Until we get the numbers demographically and control of alcohol, drugs, illiteracy, cancer, infanticide, poverty and jaath-paath within East Punjab ... I believe slogans for freedom will achieve very little ... and simply assist our Hindutva enemies to portray their terrorism and Genocide as a us (Sikh) versus them (Hindu) situation whereby everyone without kes should supposedly support the terrorist Hindutva cause.

UK = 100% agree with u Paji. Yep if some would like to focus on preserving the bricks and mortar on Maharajah Ranjit Singh's samadhi ... whilst others believe that drugs, illiteracy and poverty in East Punjab are more important priorities ... there is room for both strands of opinion within the Sikh Panth ... *DELETED* ... our Qaum can and will be unstoppable. VJKK VJKF

UK = 100% agree with you Shaastar Bir'ay. Both sides of the debate have total reverence for Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj so that should stop all hatred and division right there. Let us all just agree to disagree respectfully on matters of academic debate and focus our united efforts towards ending illiteracy, female infanticide, drugs, alcohol, cancer and poverty in Punjab as a start of Panth ki Jeeth.

UK = The dhadi jatha were clearly wrong on their facts Khalsa Ji. If they don't respect Master Tara Singh they shouldn't stoop so low with such an accusation. No true Sikh on the planet will ever dissuade new entrants to the Panth and Master Tara Singh was a sincere Sikh by conviction. He could easily have lived a comfortable life as a Hindu but instead he chose the Khalsa Panth by sincerity of conviction. UK = Don't forget that these jathedars were often British lackeys who chose to define Sikhs in the 1940's Rehat Maryada in such a way as to limit our Panth's population to as small a demographic as possible, which we saw the future consequences of in the Punjabi Suba issue as well as 1984 ... that defining our Panth's population to as small a number as possible (whilst our enemies cleverly do the exact opposite) is the most course of action for the SGPC to take. UK = Simply not true Atwal Ji. The so-called Sikh country in which 87% of the population were non-Sikhs is something the British would never have countenanced given that they gave Sri Nankana Sahib to their Muslim jagirdar friends. The British Empire never gave a damn about the Sikhs and so much is proved by the fact that Sikhs shouldered the majority of the responsibility of freeing erstwhile "British" India (as seen in martyrdom figures and prisoners etc, etc) UK = Some of the mentioned population figures in the link are over-exaggerated but the Jatav community (Mayawati's), Kabirpanthi's, Satnami's Vanjara's, Sikligars etc can certainly bring a combined new Sikh Panth population to in excess of 10 crores. However, are we ready to accept our non-Punjabi brothers and sisters as sehajdhari members of the Sikh Panth or is it important that we follow the RSS orders to define them as Hindu's? UK = Lakhs of Maharashtra Dalitrs did convert to Buddhism. In fact the Buddhist population of India has risen from a few thousand to almost one crore currently on the strength of Dr Ambedkar's conversion alone. Even 10 million extra Sikhs would have boosted the Panth ability to serve humanity for Sarbat Da Bhala to a massive degree. UK = Jashb always makes great points but I disagree with Paji on this matter. As for nationalist politics, I think we need to substantially eradicate drugs, female foeticide, socio-economic and cultural discrimination within the Panth, alcohol, poverty, poor health and illiteracy within the Panth as pre-cursors for being in "shape" to win the freedom from terrorist control that all of us desire. UK = 100% agree with you Paji (as well as great points by Proactive Paji and Jonny Paji as usual) UK = We can start by doing two things - cleaning up our act in Punjab itself (see the threads relating Dhan Dhan (Gur) Ravidas Ji Maharaj and Badal funding the 115cr Valmiki Mandir in Amritsar) and accepting that we need at least 10 crore sehajdhari's for every 10 lakh true Amritdhari's we hope to add to the Panth. So let's stop labelling all those sehajdhari's with faith in Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj as non-Sikhs. The Puratan definition of a Sikh was anyone of any background who bowed down before Maharaj. UK = It pleases me Paji to say that, for once, I wholeheartedly agree with you. UK = I don't believe the allegation against Master Tara Singh Ji. Though I would believe it in relation to Baldev Singh. UK = Sikhi alone, would have been the answer to ending oppression (globally) and it still is. UK = Mehtab Paji i agree with you. However, Sikh leaders should have realised that even if Ambedkar Ji didn't quite fully comprehend Sikhi (as anyone that does only opts for believing it) the millions he would have bought into the Panth could transform the fight against oppression and potentially prevented 1984 from happening had we been numerically stronger. To view non-Punjabi sehajdhari (Dalit) brothers and sisters on the basis of 1940's Rehat Maryada in contradiction to the Puratan definition of a Sikh was a grave mistake to allow Baldev Singh to make (when Baldev Singh did not represent the Panth). UK = In 1947 India, the Arab word Hindu was seen to encompass all those of Sanatan Dharmic faith schools which include Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhi. Clearly, the rise of Hindutva has meant that all now understand that Sikhs, Buddhists and Jains are not Hindu and never will be. Even Master Tara Singh was merely a nominal signatory of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad in the days when Hindu stood for non-Muslim (outside of Punjab). UK = By making all constituents elements of the Panth a minority (for example Punjabi's would have become a minority) it would have encouraged respect for diversity within the Panth. It would have eased the re-integration of tens of crorores of Satnami, Kabirpanthi, Jatavs etc into the Sikh Panth and prevented the splintering funded by RSS and Congress in Punjab's villages (with the aim of making Sikhs a minority in East Punjab by the 2021 census) UK = If our population ever reached 22 crores the Sikh Panth would be the strongest, most united and most "not to be messed with" block within the country. The day would thereafter follow whereby the whole of India would become Khalistan by virtue of a Sikh majority. Right now we are (if we ignore casteism) likely to become a minority in East Punjab by the 2021 census which is only 7 and a half years away. Bear in mind that the Brahmins number 5crores, as do Rajputs, Yadavs and Jatavs similarly. So an individual basis we are not far off matching the biggest non-Muslim communities initially if we can return to the fundamental truths of Sikhi rather than sinking into the drugs, alcohol, caste, illiteracy, infanticide traps laid out by Congress and their RSS allies in the ongoing (silent) Genocide of Sikhs.

Unreal. The Badal patriarch and son are truly disgraceful animals. They can't do anything for the downtrodden within Punjab. They ignore ke Rangrehte Guru Ke Bete and they have done nothing to highlight the contribution of Bhai Jiwan Singh Ji and others of similar ancestry to the Panth that comprised the bulk of the Shaheedian Misl forces. What's ironic is that Balmiki was a Brahmin but now it suits the Badals to split the Qaum further in order to divide and rule the Panth from within. The last bastion is Malwa. The enemies of the Panth have succeeded in ensuring Balmiki Mandirs proliferation in Doaba and Majha and now their aim is to crack the saanjhe Gurdware remaining in villages in Malwa. If the enemies of the Panth continue at the rate they are going they will have us in a minority by the 2021 census - the only way to stop them is to smash all discrimination internally (including at matrimonial level) by forcible means if necassary as we only have seven years left. Sikhi can never progress in a pind or locality where there is more than one Gurdwara. We need to merge Gurdware asap.

Bir'ay good point that Geneva is not too far away but I think our focus has got to be on getting as many signatures globally as we can ... and therefater our nominated Panj Pyaaray can present the petition on behalf of global Sangat. As rather than thousands of UK Sikhs spending money on plane tickets, hotels etc we can utilise that money direct to uplift our gareeb brothers and sisters in greater need of hep as I don't believe the Swiss media will give too much air time to the petition ... clever use of media with local Sangat in attendance can work just as effectively as millions of signatures is an undeniable voice from the Panth.

UK = Paji why not Gurbachan Singh Khalsa (Thailand wale) complete his program before pre-judging it? Do such pro-Gurmat views that Sikhs should only bow before Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj justify Sikh on Sikh violence as was launched by the opponents of Sarbjit Singh Khalsa (Dhunda) last year when the majority of the Sangat present inside agreed with Dhunda Sahib. We don't need this hysteria within the Panth when we should instead unitedly focus on getting over a million signatures for www.1984yesitsgenocide.org as Gurbachan Singh Khalsa (Thailand wale) will no doubt highlight. UK = I agree with you wholeheartedly Paji. But if some Gurdwara's allow Charitropakhyan to be simultaneously recited parallel to Maharaj, why should Singh Sabha Gurdwara's in the UK, Canada, USA, Thailand etc be prevented from articulating pro-Gurmat views which stress upon Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj being supreme as Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj himself ordained?

UK = Daljit Singh Paji ... eh Dera Ballan wale Congressi chamche ne jere masoom Sangat da khoon peere ne UK = Benti to Admin+Mods that this topic needs highlighting on "What's Happening" as many in our Qaum are sleeping on this issue and the Congress Party's and RSS goal to split an integral part of the Panth away so that Sikhs can be shown to be a minority in East Punjab in 2021 is succeeding. We have SEVEN YEARS LEFT to eradicate artifical divisions within the Panth or we will face severe long term consequences.

UK = On this occasion I have to respectfully diagree with certain viewpoints. UK = Four of the Panj Pyaaray were non-Punjabi's. That indicates where our jor and bravery stems from. http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/66388-four-of-the-5-pyaaray-were-not-punjabi/ UK = Also the majority of Sikhs are not from the Jatt tribal identity (but the percentage is currently just slightly under 50%) UK = The majority of Jatts are proud Punjabi Muslim Jatts like Pakistan's 1st Prime Minister or Hindu Jatt's like Sajjan Kumar UK = Punjabi's were constantly the slaves of outsiders until such point that Sikhi liberated us to become Singhs. UK = It should be remembered that up until Dhan Dhan Guru HarGobind Sahib Ji Maharaj up to half of our Qaum were ex-Muslims. UK = Bhangra does indeed preserve links with the Punjabi language, however, when a Muslim Jatt record labels propagates casteist songs, promotes alcohol and drugs useage and encourages materialism then it is de facto acting as a cultural cancer within our youth. UK = Bindy Johal should not be hero worshipped in BC amongst our youth. Anyone who sells drugs disqualifies themselves from being called Sikh. Nevertheless, it doesn't hurt us to utilise any sense of justice held by anyone within the wider community (not least our own) to combat Muslim paedophiles from emulating the Prophet Muhammad's achievements. SP did a great job in that respect. UK = We need to urgently accept our sehajdhari (and non-Punjabi) brothers and sisters as fully haqdaar Sikhs rather than marginalising them. UK = Tandoori Singh you were 100% absolutely correct that our enemies should always fear us (rather than the opposite way round).

UK = Sangha, Master Tara Singh was more Sikh than you or I could ever be. Would you make the same accusation against Bhai Lehna Ji? UK = Excellently said Jonny Paji (as usual) UK = The sad thing is Mehtab Paji is that the same wretched disgraces who hold such opinions don't realise that they thereby disqualify themselves as Sikhs ... since Sikhi isn't acquired via birth > but by belief and sincere convictions and actions! UK = Sangha let's do some simple mathematics as obviously English is not your forte. More than 20% of the Sikh population was killed off in Pakistan in 1947. In India, during the Congress inflicted Genocide of Sikhs around 1% of the Sikh population was killed off. Even the death of a single Sikh (or any innocent human being) is unforgiveable but according to which Genocidal Criteria do you declare Pakistan to be a better place for Sikhs to have gone to in 1947? It's like saying Nazi Germany was a better place for Jews compared to New York City due to anti-semitism present in NYC in the 1980's. UK = Given that the Punjabi Muslims (who were never your enemies but are your beloved friends in Huddersfield and other wonderful parts of Yorskire like Bradford) killed off 20% of the Sikh population in Pakistan in 1947, you're arguing that the Indira+Rajiv orchestrated Genocide of Sikhs was as bad as the equivalent of 5million plus Sikhs being killed off in 1947 by Pakistani Muslims. UK = 75,000 to 100,000 Sikhs were killed in the earlier vada+cchota Muslim GhalluGhara's of Sikhs when over 50% of our Panth's population at those times was murdered in Genocide by Muslims prior to the existence of the apartheid (Islamic) state of Pakistan. UK = Nobody stands united with the murderers of Sikhs but no I certainly don't hold 99% of innocent Hindu's guilty for the Indira+Rajiv orchestrated Genocide of Sikhs. 99% plus of all Punjabi Muslims vehemently supported Jinnah and the Muslim League's aims to ethnically cleanse all Sikhs from Pakistan (and indeed Amritsar, Jalandhar and Ludhiana too had our Qaum not had the balanced demographics with Muslims that we did in 1947 in Doaba, Malwa and Majha)

UK = Inspirational to read about you being the only male member of your family to take Amrit Paji and you hit nail on the head about Sikhi being from within (rather than something we are born into). UK = Well highlighted Scali. It's common sense that we need to invest in the future growth of Sikhi through knowledge, educationa and translation rather than spending our Panth's limited resources on making fancy new buildings and thinking we are somehow being clever by copying Christians, Muslims and Hindu's in their obsession with fancy Churches, Mosques and Mandirs.

UK = Excellent to read this Paji, keep it up! Regardless of minor differences on subjects where I have the opposite opinion to you just know that everyone in the Panth is supportive of such actions and we (myself included) need to focus our energy on appreciating where we all agree (rather than focussing on subjects where our Qaum has divergent opinions. UK = Paji without seva and concrete actions to accompany it "oh bhagti kidha di hoyee". Both in tandem are necassary. And I for one don't think you wasted time on here ... I might not agree with you 100% of the time ... but I have learnt a lot from your posts and viewpoints (and also i must add from only5 Paji :-) UK = Paji you're absolutely bang on target. I totally agree with you. UK = Paji, this is where I respectfully disagree with you. I 100% agree that Gurdware in Orissa where Bhai Himmat Singh Ji of the Panj Pyaaray came from need to preserved and we need to increase parchaar to highlight the bravest person GurSikh to arise from Orissa and provide Dhan Dhan Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj in Odisha bhasha ... but preserving heritage in Afghanistan and Pakistan is a waste of limited resouces. Historic Gurdware and Gurdware near to Punjabi Christian and Sindhi non-Muslims should be prioritised (but without any unnecassary expenditure on glitzing the exterior). Sikhi comes from within and vishwaas in Dhan Dhan Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj and Sikhi is important than heritage per se. UK = Part of the reason our enemies our succeeding in eradicating Sikhi outside of Punjab is that we are not ready to accept sehajdhari non-Punjabi's as Sikhs. When we declare our own brothers and sisters as Hindu's (despite Bhai Himmat Singh and countless other GurSikhs coming from Orissa) then we can't expect Sikhi to flourish outside of Punjab. We simply cannot expect 100% of new non-Punjabi Sikhs to be Amritdhari given that we have never achieved the same in East Punjab. UK = Exactly. Whenever our Qaum is attacked negatively we have to turn it around and spin the occurrence to our future advantage. UK = Paji let all the goray and rich Arabs buy those artefacts. Let's focus the money we'd waste buying those artefacts up into eradicating drugs, eradicating female foeticide, eradicating artificial divisions within the Panth, increasing health+education levels in East Punjab as well as increasing seva and parchaar in areas of India and Africa where the need is greatest and where future Sikhs are most likely to realistically arise.

Paji kyoh? Saada farz sab tho zyaa'dha ban'dhaii Sikh hohn de naa'the. Instead of putting gold domes and spending millions on the structure of new Gurdware we need to concentrate the same money on seva.