UKLondonSikh

UK = Paji those care about the future of the Sikh Panth can understand your faith in Sikhi just fine. Mod Edit- Someone report this if the video is inappropriate. I can't be bothered to check right now

Paji my very brief input this morning is that I echo much of what SevadaarEKhalsa Ji has said. I believe that we shouldn't worry too much about appealing to gay folks or European or Arabic or even Punjabi males from Islamabad (though of course we should never discourage them). But I simply believe the amount of resources it will take to reach to one person from the aforementioned communities, ten people in India or sub-saharan Africa can stride towards Sikhi employing the same financial and time resources. India and sub-saharan Africa are where the need for educational+healthcare assistance is greatest and where Sikhi and its ethos of Sarbat Da Bhala are needed most. It's important that we don't expect all such new Sikhs to be Amritdhari. The more that are Amritdhari is great obviously but if by insisting upon only new Amritdhari members of the Panth, we thereby limit the general population pool of the Sikh Panth from which new Amritdhari GurSikhs can arise in the future, then we would be doing the Panth a huge disservice and doing exactly what the RSS+our enemies want - they want the smallest population possible for the Sikh Panth. So that we become a smaller and even less powerful minority, that is prone to constant human rights abuses due to our 1.8% percent population in India not being very statistically important in Indian elections. And before we get too wrapped up in sourcing new Sikhs here in the West, we shouldn't ignore that Dera Ballan with help from RSS+Congress wish to define 3million current Panth members as non-Sikhs by the 2021. So we need to be vigilant in Punjab at the same time - whilst realising that the main future growth of Panth will come from the poorer parts of India and sub-saharan Africa rather than Punjab. Sikhi in Punjab will only flourish when we manage to eradicate the drugs menace, the flood of alcohol, the selective infanticde of females and concentrate of helping the poor with education and healthcare and eradicating jaath-paath in bakhre bakhre Gurdware, matrimonial apartheid and village level segmentation residentially, as well as the learning from enemies of the Panth from Dera's to Christian missionaries and ISI drug mules who have re-activated practices like prayers to Pirs to generate extra revenue from gullible Sikhs (and re-activating mosques with the proceeds). In short, every Sikh has to play his or her part for the Panth in the best way they know either directly or at the least via daswand. http://barusahib.org/akal_university.php http://www.khalsaaid.org/ http://www.pingalwara.net/donations.html

Khalsa Ji if i'm not mistaken the answer you were looking for was Raja Shivnabh? I found the following link to be very inspiring (given that I personally am not 100% sure whether Guru Sahib went there or not) http://www.sikhchic.com/travel/desperately_seeking_nanak_in_sri_lanka I strongly believe that if Guru Sahib had been there the Sikh Panth would be flourishing there today. However, despite my personal opinions, and I wholly respect your belief on this matter, I believe it would be pragmatic for us to establish Gurdwara's coupled with health+educational facilities on the routes of Guru Sahib's journeys (whether we believe they visited their or not) as obviously God works in mysterious ways and if Sarbat Da Bhala and Gareeba di dekh-paal can be initiated by getting the Sangat on track along the purported routes in India, Nepal and Sri Lanka only then that would be a great thing. And something far better for the future of the Panth rather than us wasting excessive millions on grand buildings in the West (when Guru Sahib taught us that is the Sadh Sangaat and their ekta and prem for Vaheguru and each other that makes a Gurdwara as opposed to the external physical shell of the building - especially when that money wasted in the West can achieve so much more in the fields of education and healthcare across India and sub-saharan Africa). I call them blackmailers because they threaten innocent people that they will end up burning in the flames of Hell if they don't accept Jesus as their Saviour. Similarly, whereas Guru Sahib taught us to help anyone suffering with cancer or medical problems regardless of their faith, these Christian missionaries offer financial support to the poor on condition they convert. http://www.khalsaaid.org/donate.html What makes my blood boil even more is that these Christians in Punjab wish to wipe the wipe out the history of Bhai Jiwan Singh's bravery upon Dhan Dhan Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji's Shaheedi (and that all RanghRaythay are Guru kay baytay) and the fact that Shaheed Baba Sangat led the Sikh Fauj because Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Maharaj Ji considered him - a leatherworker's son - the most able GurSikh at the time. http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Gurdwara_Shahid_Burj_(Bhai_Jiwan_Singh) These Christians deliberately seek to downplay the fact that the majority of Shaheeds in Misl Shaheedan were from similar backgrounds to Bhai Jiwan Singh Ji and Giani Ditt Singh who led the Singh Sabha because it suits their perverted agenda to claim that only Jatts are Sikh when in fact only around the half are from that particular tribal ancestry (and despite the even bigger fact that 80% of Jatts are proud Muslim Jatts and Hindu Jatts and both of whom proved to be very hostile enemies to the Sikh Panth in 1947 and 1984) As you know the Christians and the Muslims in Eastern Punjab now number close to one million from a population base level in 1947 that was closer to 50,000. I lay much of the blame for that at the casteist Jatt MLA's who worked so tirelessly for Indira in destroying the spirit of Panthic ekta in many of our GuruGhars. Subsequently the casteist Dera Ballan, Jai Balmiki, Dera Jhoota Sauda (Sidhu Business Empire) and Radha Swami Landgrabbers (aka Dhillon Business Empire) have got in on the act and realise that the more of a franchise scheme they operate the more wealth they will personally control. http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/66391-mergers-so-that-only-1-gurdwara-per-local-area/ You mentioned that the prize was that we the Sangat can ask you the next question. So, as someone who is totally clued up about the dangerous threat that Christian blackmailers pose in Punjab to our Qaum, I would like to ask your thoughts on the following issues: Having said all that, I consider Dera Ballan to be the biggest demographic threat to the Panth in the next 8 years. By the time of the 2021 census their openly stated aim is to out 3million present day Sikhs out of Sikhi. I would like to hear your ideas on how we counter this, given that Sikhs are the true Ravidassia's as we bow down to Dhan Dhan (Gur) Ravidas Ji Maharaj daily whereas Dera Ballan are Congress pimps who insist upon Ad-Dharmi's only marrying Ad-Dharmi's. http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/67555-bhagat-ravidass-and-ravidassias/ Apartheid at Matrimonial stages is not helping and neither is declaring those that do not keep rehit as being Hindu's. http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/70587-how-to-tackle-jaath-paath-discrimination-in-matrimonials/ We need to recognise that the majority of India's population are NOT Hindu. That's what the RSS defines the weak and the oppressed for political domination of India. The minute we accept more folks as Sehajdhari Sikhs, the more the Khalsa Panth will flourish and the more we as an enlarged can do globally for Sarbat Da Bhala. I don't believe Hindutva and RSS can be beaten by Sikhs if we continue with our current mindset of seeking to restrict the definition of Sikh to as few people as possible ... whereas our opponents cleverly seek to include anybody and everybody within the term Hindu. The truth is that spiritually Bharat is a majority Sikh population state in natural terms given the poverty and injustice hundreds of millions oppressed and malnourished suffer (which Sikhi seeks to end via Sarbat dha Bhalla). All the gareeb and oppressed in the World and all the free thinkers who wish for equality and justice in global society are natural born Sikhs. Punjab at one level is a 99% Sikh population state if we accept the definition that whosoever bows before Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj is a Sikh (regardless of if that person's birth surname was Kumar or Gupta or Sharma or Mehra or Khan or Smith). If we are going to the extent of saying that the 90% sehajdhari majority are not Sikh ... we play right into the RSS Hindutva ideology's hands. They are only too willing to accept and announce them as Hindu's. Much as I personally dislike Dera Sirsa, Dera Ballan, Radha Swami landgrabbers and the 1978 Nirankari's ... we even need to be careful not to exclude these folks from the wider loooser definition of the Panth ... but instead try to actively widen the inclusion of Sikhs to include the hundred million plus comprising those such as the Jatavs from UP etc and all Kabirpanthi's and Satnami's in India. Numbers are critical. The more sehajdhari population we have, a greater of committed Amritdhari GurSikhs will automatically arise from within those wider ranks. Those that do take Amrit need to be as committed as the Panj Pyaaray were out of the Sikh Sangat approaching one lakh in 1699. That is how precious and pure our Khalsa Panth needs to be if we are serious about beating Hindutva. If we try to limit the definition of "Sikh" to as small a population as possible, we will struggle to beat Hindutva which is cleverly doing the opposite. The Madhya Pradesh Sikhs were always Sikh from day one as are all the poor in India and globally. It's only cultural brainwashing from Hindutva that makes them "think" that they are Hindu or any other faith their oppressors have locked them into. Of course, the Amritdhari marg is only for the best of the best within the Panth and can never be diluted. As the Khalsa Panth is defined by the quality of it's actions as opposed to the sheer quantity of its membership.

UK = Paji I agree that those who gravitate towards Sikhi are more often Amritdhari GurSikhs than the ordinary Punjabi's amongst us. I totally agree that people like Sant Puran Singh Ji and even Mehtab Singh Paji exemplify that those come to Sikhi, despite not having Sikh parents, are way committed to Sikhi than ordinary Punjabi's. We should encourage this trend as the future of Sikh Panth lies outside of its current demographics. UK = Let's take a look at African Americans in your country. Almost 1 million of them have been conned into believing a religion where the Holy Prophet himself owned, sold and killed black African slaves and the Quran (like the Bible, Torah and Manu Smriti before it) also condones Slavery (because after all Prophet Muhammad engaged in this hideous crime against humanity himself). The way the Punjabi Muslims and others are so successful in converting African Americans is because they make it easy to convert (simply a two line Shahada) and they cover up Islam's human rights record in killing tens of millions of innocent human beings. UK = Those one million African American Muslims ought to naturally gravitate towards Sikhi. Guru Sahib liberated the poor and the oppressed. Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj advocated death for Slaveowners, Opressors and Tyrants like Aurangzeb in order to see a society in which there is Justice and Equality. However, the number of African Americans coming towards Sikhi is minimal because people like yourself view those who are not Amritdhari as being non-Sikhs. Ie people like yourself view the Sikh population of the Planet as being a couple of million strong. Then you wonder why our Panth is facing human rights abuses at the hands of our enemies because of the overwhelming demographic they hold over us. UK = Paji i 100% respect your sincerity towards Sikhi in your own mind, however, your belief that numbers are inconsequential or not important to the Panth's wellbeing and ability to influence the World towards Sarbat Da Bhala is very dangerous and I am more than happy to discuss the point further with you, should you choose to - as hopefully won't shut that down at your request :-) UK = My suggestion to you is simple. If we have 100million Sehajdhari Sikhs join the Sikh Panth in our lifetime then the Amritdhari GurSikh population will double and triple in no short time thereafter. If you GPS Paji continue to insist that Sindhi's, Kabirpanthi's, Satnami's, Tamils, African Americans, so-called Hindu Punjabi's who believe in the fundamental truths of Sikhi such as Sarbat Da Bhala and Degh Tegh Fateh and Kirat Karo, Naam Japo Vand Shako are not Sikh and should not be accepted as members of the Panth ... then the Amritdhari GurSikh population will continue to stay at the levels Indira and RSS wish to see it remain at. VJKK VJKF

UK = Paji WestLondonSingh I see you are still pushing the falsehood that the Muslims were the victims of 1947 and that those big bad Sikhs were the aggressors and murderers - as Sikhs dared to defend Majha, Malwa and Doaba from annexation to Pakistan because the Muslims outnumbered our Sikh Qaum in most of present day East Punjab. So let's take another look at your inaccurate and Pakistani-influenced statistics: UK = Let me clarify that I don't have anything whatsoever against any good Muslim. Islam may be a false religion that supports slavery and believes in the virgin birth of Jesus but that doesn't make all Muslims bad. After all, a lot of Indians pray to cows and monkey gods - which similarly doesn't make them bad people per se. LegalSingh = I, therefore, recommend you do 2 things : Firstly, read the census reports from before 1947 and see what just a small percentage of sikhs it was that lived in what is now Pakistan. UK = That would only serve to prove that a greater PERCENTAGE of the Sikh population were killed there! You've disproven your own point as to who suffered most in per capita terms. Do you now admit that Sikhs suffered the most of any Punjabi community in percentage terms? UK = For clarity, if 300,000 Sikhs were killed and say 1.5 million Sikhs lived on the Pakistan side then that equates to 20% of the Sikh pouplation being killed there. If say 3 million Sikhs lived on the Pakistan side, then that would mean 10% of the Sikhs there were killed. WestLondonSingh = As bad as our death toll was their death toll was a 150% higher. UK = The "150% higher" figure is nonsense dreamt up by Muslim propagandists. Btw "half as much again" means 50% more and not "150%" as you stated. Paji if the Sikhs did not defend themselves the Muslims would have tried to get Jalandhar in Pakistan (via ethnic cleansing) ... because there were just as many Muslims in Doaba as us Sikhs (if not more). I know for a fact (as I'm half Doabi :-) that the Muslims kicked off first in order to ethnically cleanse us Sikhs out as kaffirs. Amritsar they would have taken as well as they outnumbered us there too. Say 350,000 Muslims dead out of a total Muslim population of 100million or thereabouts in 1947 = 0.35% innocents from their population sadly died. Statistically we lost by most estimates around twelve times as many innocent people (IN PERCENTAGE TERMS) for the size of our community ... or are you denying that undisputed fact? UK = But just to get this point crystal clear to you let us consider the following: UK = Population A = 100 million (this population the Quran teaches them to support slavery, paedophilia + caste discrimination) UK = Population B = 6 million (this population has been taught by SGGS Ji to OPPOSE slavery, paedophilia + caste discrimination) UK = Population A loses 300,000 people in a tragedy UK = Population B loses 299,999 people in the same tragedy UK = On paper, the Muslim propagandists can say that "oh the Muslims suffered more casulaties, look how evil + horrible those Sikhs are because they dare to believe in 1 God + oppose slavery at the same time" UK = But we have have clearly shown above that Population B has suffered 16-17 times greater losses for it's smaller population base UK = I say to you point blank LegalSingh Paji that we Sikhs suffered more - between 10-15 times greater losses than Muslims on a per capita basis in 1947. That's why Pakistan is an apartheid ideology supporting snake that doesn't merit your support so often. UK = So I hope you will agree with me that we shouldn't be spending tourist dollars in Pakistan enriching those that butchered our Qaum and enriching the descendents of those who brutally killed 300,000 plus Sikhs in 1947 - the equivalent of one hundred Delhi's on November 1st 1984 or the equivalent of over 10 million Englishmen being killed off today in 2013. WestLondonSingh = Hand on my heart, having visited Pakistan, I can honestly state that I recieved so much love and respect from the people there. UK = Paji I get love and respect from all different people and races for being Sikh ... the only difference is the Muslims consistently inflicted the worst ghallugharas and holocausts on Sikhs repeatedly for 350 years ... next time you want to be friendly to them ... encourage them to visit East Punjab instead (rather than you spending your money in Pakistan ... which in turn helps Pakistan's ISI to supply drugs over the border that helps addict Sikh youth). Go to Slough, Alum Rock, Bradford etc and spend some time with our Punjabi Muslim friends whether they be Muslim Jatt, Muslim Rajput, Arain(Kamboh+Saini), Sheikh(Khatri+Arora), Butt(Brahmin) castes etc and trust me the majority of male Punjabi Muslims are 100% united in their utter hatred of Sikhs (because we are THE true monotheistic faith) and are proud of how they ethnically cleansed West Punjab of Sikhs and how they brutally converted and raped our women in 1947. Guess which landowning population segment of the Sikhs suffered worst in the rural areas of West Punjab? They probably treated you like a prince because you were enriching their economy and because they know that you are the enemy of THEIR enemy ... as Pakistan's ISI (that kept Bin Laden in Punjab) thinks ... "let's get gullible Sikhs like LegalSingh thinking Islam is suddenly all friendly now" (despite 1947) ... that way we Pakistani's can supply weapons to get Sikh naujawaans killed by GOI as was the case between 1984-1995 ... whilst supplying drugs over the border for the additional bonus profit of billions. It's a win/win situation for Punjabi Muslims. Check with your Pakistani friends what great respect Aurangzeb, Jehangir and the Mughals are revered with by the Punjabi Muslims whilst Bhai Mardana Ji is despised by Punjabi Muslims and called a Kanjar simply for Bhai Mardana Ji being the first Sikh and an apostate from Islam.

UK = It's so hurtful that they associate the very Qaum which had 20% of it's population in Pakistan wiped out by Muslims is confused with Musalmaans. We as the Sikh Panth lost the equivalent of 12.5 million Brits being killed today in 2013 (back in 1947). We need to step up parchaar following events like this (as inevitably more will follow wherever Islam spreads to) to educate that one philospohy stands for Sarbat Da Bhala whereas the other religion is Arab Imperialism in all but name. UK = What's worse is that these two converts to Islam were brainwashed by a Punjabi Muslim Jatt by the name of Anjem Choudhury. Given that Prophet Muhammad owned, sold and whipped black African slaves as extensively catalogued in the Muslim Hadiths I find it perpelexing as to why black Africans can be hoodwinked by Punjabi Muslims like this. I am confident, however, that the more people of African ancestry we reach out to (without an insistence upon Amritdhari rehit) the more Africans can be saved from the brainwashing of Islamic Qazi's and terrorists.

UK = I totally disagree with some of their beliefs but I agree with you VHS Paji that we should have the maturity to accept that others connect with God spiritually via a different way than we as Punjabi's are accustomed to. UK = Paji in an ideal world if we could see equality in everyone (instead of bakhre bakhre Gurdware with exclusionary Committees) as Guru Sahib ordained, then perhaps I'd agree with you that people keeping their village name or original European surname would not be too harmful, however their was a strong and indisputable reason behind why Guru Sahib ordained the disregard for Gotra nomenclatrure at the founding of the Khalsa Panth and the use of Singh and Kaur. Agreed that Khalsa cannot be a hereditary surname and should only be used by an active Amritdhari GurSikh. UK = Well said above Paji UK = As a doctor surely you realise that in certain cases homosexuality is genetic (or arguably as a consequence of a child's upbringing), in much way that thousands of animals are also naturally born homosexual. It's a shame you feel that way as homosexuals have been at the forefront of supporting anti-discrimination legislation which has helped Sikhs, so it's shame you feel that they can't be accorded basic dignity as human beings. UK = Agree with you Lucky Paji UK = Agree with you N30 Paji UK = I agree with your analysis Genie Paji, however, my strong belief (even though I disagree with theirs) is that their presence in overall terms is beneficial for wider PR for the Panth and we should concentrate on ironing out certain misguided beliefs they hold with pyaar and respectful communication rather than the Muslim Sharia "kill them" approach as advocated by Mani.

UK = Paji, a deep topic but very briefly: If any future GOI does attempt the wholescale Genocide of Sikhs as they did in the 80's and 90's then absolutely the so-called Maoists would very much need to be sought out as Alliance partners to attempt to break Delhi's corrupt rule. The problem we as a Panth face is that though there are others such as Maoists, Naga's, Bodo's etc who also seek equitable treatment from the GOI ... the GOI has gained new alliance partners in the form of MultiNational Companies and arguably the USA in the last 30years, so I strongly believe we need to tread carefully at the present time and focus on eliminating the following from Punjab as a pre-cursor: drugs useage, alcohol consumption, biraderi-based bakhre bakhre Gurdware, female infanticide, illiteracy, poverty and malnutrition within the Panth. UK = The so-called Maoists are actually natural born Sikhs if only we could see that they are in Sehajdhari form. They were never Hindu's. The RSS defined them as Hindu's and then decided it was best to label them as Hindu Atheists after they started to fight for their rights. The reality is that the so-called Maoist are adivasi tribals who were in the land of India prior to the Aryan invasion but were forced to the margins of scoiety by the wretched Hindu philosophy as expounded upon in Manu Smriti. It is also important to note that the terrain in Maoist-controlled areas is suited to guerilla warfare - whereas in Punjab it is not. UK = Like the aborigines of Australia (as an example), their land and mineral wealth has been stolen, their culture decimated and yet they are at the bottom of the pile in Indian society. When the poor stand up for their own rights, only using arms as a last resort as advised by Guru Sahib, the Ambani's and Multinationals find it convenient to label them as terrorists. We as a Panth stand shoulder to shoulder with all oppressed peoples throughout the World but unfortunately due to our lack of numbers on a global stage, are pretty much unable to help them sufficiently as the Khalsa Panth has a responsibility to do - as we can barely solve our own community's problems in Punjab at the moment. Nevertheless, our Panth has a moral duty to help provide education and healthcare facilities to India's original tribal populations and recognise them as Sehajdhari Sikhs, who in time will provide new members of the Khalsa Panth. http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/maoists-express-solidarity-with-posco-movement/1/142968.html UK = Their main objective is an equitable stake within the Indian Union, though they may express it as a desire for indepence of their own lands (to prevent their theft by multinationals like Posco - similar to the modus operandi of logging Companies in the Amazon or Indonesian-controlled Papua). Given that Maoist Communism is already extinct in its homeland of China, they don't seek to impose Maoism per se on others but have been left with the name as a throwback to Communist times in China when Mao was in charge. By seeking greater equality in Society they affirm that they wholly agree with the concept of Sarbat Da Bhala and all those that do should be welcome as our Sikh brothers and sisters - rather than pushed away like the time when Dr Ambedkar and millions of others wished to join the Sikh Panth.

I wholly agree with you Singh135 and nanosecond Paji. We should use the 1984 GOI Genocide against Sikhs as a way of increasing Parchaar of Sikhi towards the general non-Punjabi masses in particular. Every memorial per se should be as simple as possible with the minimal of expense attributed to any physical slab detailing the martyrdoms. However, together with each Memorial marking the Genocide we should open health facilities for the poor and educational facilities for the poor as well as countering Indira + Rajiv's lies from the 1980's via dissemination of information about what Sikhi actually is about. Let's show them that entire ethos of Sikhi is about Sarbat Da Bhala

UK = I wholly agree Paji. Guru Sahib gave us Shabad Guru to exclusively focus upon learning from - instead some have been misguided by certain Dera heads to emphasise on physical artifacts and icons like the Hindu's, Christians ands Muslims revere as well as focussing on pictures of our Guru Sahib (which are not based on reality) instead of focusing on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj - which if one has faith in Guru Sahib is provably the best source of Truth to sustain our spiritual, mental and physical health.

UK = Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj’s true ideology is what the RSS have on their hit list. That’s why they want people like yourself to emphasise upon Sri Hemkhunt Sahib becuase they fear what occurred in Vaisakhi 1699 at Sri Anandpur Sahib. UK = Don't accuse me of ridiculing Sri Hemkhunt Sahib or any other Gurdwara where Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj is present. I make no apology for considering Sri Anandpur Sahib or the birth of the Khalsa Panth Vaisakhi 1699 to be more crucial to the history of Sikhi and Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj's legacy than Sri Hemkhunt Sahib which you prefer our Panth to focus upon - as like the RSS ideology you share, it detracts from the social revolution the Khalsa Panth is dedicated towards.

Bachittar Natak (Chapter 4) Sri Dasam Guru Granth Sahib Ji ਰਿਖੰ ਭੇਸ ਕੀਯੰ ॥ ਤਿਸੈ ਰਾਜ ਦੀਯੰ ॥੫॥ रिखं भेस कीयं ॥ तिसै राज दीयं ॥५॥ He put on the garb of a sage (rishi) and gave his kingdom to the reciter (Amrit Rai)5. ਰਹੇ ਹੋਰਿ ਲੋਗੰ ॥ ਤਜੇ ਸਰਬ ਸੋਗੰ ॥ रहे होरि लोगं ॥ तजे सरब सोगं ॥ The people tried to the king to do so, but, he had abandoned all sorrows. ਧਨੰ ਧਾਮ ਤਿਆਗੇ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭੰ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਪਾਗੇ ॥੬॥ धनं धाम तिआगे ॥ प्रभं प्रेम पागे ॥६॥ And leaving his wealth and property, absorbed himself in divine love.6. ਅੜਿਲ ॥ अड़िल ॥ ARIL ਬੇਦੀ ਭਏ ਪ੍ਰਸੰਨ ਰਾਜ ਕਹ ਪਾਇ ਕੈ ॥ ਦੇਤ ਭਯੋ ਬਰਦਾਨ ਹੀਐ ਹੁਲਸਾਇ ਕੈ ॥ बेदी भए प्रसंन राज कह पाइ कै ॥ देत भयो बरदान हीऐ हुलसाइ कै ॥ Having been bestowed the kingdom, the Bedis were very much pleased. With happy heart, he predicted this boon: ਜਬ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਲਿ ਮੈ ਹਮ ਆਨ ਕਹਾਇਹੈਂ ॥ ਹੋ ਜਗਤ ਪੂਜ ਕਰਿ ਤੋਹਿ ਪਰਮ ਪਦ ਪਾਇਹੈਂ ॥੭॥ जब नानक कलि मै हम आन कहाइहैं ॥ हो जगत पूज करि तोहि परम पद पाइहैं ॥७॥ When in the Iron age, I shall be called Nanak, you will attain the Supreme State and be worshipped by the world."7. ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥ दोहरा ॥ DOHRA ਲਵੀ ਰਾਜ ਦੇ ਬਨਿ ਗਏ ਬੇਦੀਅਨ ਕੀਨੋ ਰਾਜ ॥ लवी राज दे बनि गए बेदीअन कीनो राज ॥ The descendants of Lava, after handing over the kingdom, went to the forest, and the Bedis (descendants of Kusha) began to rule. ਭਾਂਤਿ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਤਿਨਿ ਭੋਗੀਯੰ ਭੂਅ ਕਾ ਸਕਲ ਸਮਾਜ ॥੮॥ भांति भांति तिनि भोगीयं भूअ का सकल समाज ॥८॥ They enjoyed all comforts of the earth in various ways.8. ਚੌਪਈ ॥ चौपई ॥ CHAUPAI ਤ੍ਰਿਤੀਅ ਬੇਦ ਸੁਨਬੋ ਤੁਮ ਕੀਆ ॥ ਚਤੁਰ ਬੇਦ ਸੁਨਿ ਭੂਅ ਕੋ ਦੀਆ ॥ त्रितीअ बेद सुनबो तुम कीआ ॥ चतुर बेद सुनि भूअ को दीआ ॥ O Sodhi king! You have listened to the recitation of three Vedas, and while listening to the fourth, you gave away your kingdom. ਤੀਨ ਜਨਮ ਹਮਹੂੰ ਜਬ ਧਰਿਹੈਂ ॥ ਚਉਥੇ ਜਨਮ ਗੁਰੂ ਤੁਹਿ ਕਰਿਹੈਂ ॥੯॥ तीन जनम हमहूं जब धरिहैं ॥ चउथे जनम गुरू तुहि करिहैं ॥९॥ When I shall have taken three births, you will be made the Guru in he fourth birth."9. ਉਤ ਰਾਜਾ ਕਾਨਨਿਹ ਸਿਧਾਯੋ ॥ ਇਤ ਇਨ ਰਾਜ ਕਰਤ ਸੁਖ ਪਾਯੋ ॥ उत राजा काननिह सिधायो ॥ इत इन राज करत सुख पायो ॥ That (Sodhi) king left for the forest, and this (Bedi) king absorbed himself in royal pleasures. ਕਹਾ ਲਗੇ ਕਰਿ ਕਥਾ ਸੁਨਾਊਂ ॥ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਬਢਨ ਤੇ ਅਧਿਕ ਡਰਾਊਂ ॥੧੦॥ कहा लगे करि कथा सुनाऊं ॥ ग्रंथ बढन ते अधिक डराऊं ॥१०॥ To what extent, I should narrate the story? It is feared that this book will become voluminous.10.

GPS = You have PMd me already in the beginning when i defended ... to mellow me down. GPS = You did not talk about Dasam bani at all in that PM. All you were saying we are this we are that. UK = That’s right I took special care to emphasise to you as a brother within the Panth that though I vehemently disagree with your position on certain things, I stressed that Unity is the key and that if I contest your opinion it’s not personal. Go right ahead and post my pm to the Sangat so they can compare and contrast your ideology versus mine. I’m cool with that. GPS = I do not believe in PMs. UK = That’s cool. You declare me a non-Sikh but I won’t make the same accusation against you. But I will continue to oppose your posts where I see you trotting out your personalised manmat agenda of making the Sikh population smaller and increasing the Hindu population just as the RSS wish you and others in the Panth to do for them. GPS = If you are so keen to forward your anti Dasam bani agenda, UK = I am not focussed on Bachitar Natak and Charitropakhiyan tales – you are. The Panth's Chardi Kallah is what I care about. Your agenda of declaring Sikhs as atheists is a sideshow that nevertheless needs to be countered because you want the Sikh Panth to be smaller in number. GPS = set a date and we will debate it live with videography.let me know. UK = On the one hand you run to mods to shut down discourse and on the other hand you want televised debates lived on the BBC and CNN. If you are so confident then when not just request mods + admin if SikhSangat can be a neutral forum on the subject. Open discourse rather point-winning debates will clear up more people’s so-called misconceptions than this. This way just like how Saada Haq was banned, the more people rush outto clue themselves up on what they hype is about. GPS = No PM business with hardened gurnindaks. UK = If one person out of us two is a Gurnindak then my opinion is that the person who associates Guru Sahib with anti-Gurmat material and holds the determined stance of alienating as many people away from Sikhi as possible might be.

UK = Take a look at this (though it may be from another BrahmGiani Mahapurash of the parallel parkash faction where the Sahibzade, Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh story originated from) http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/66388-four-of-the-5-pyaaray-were-not-punjabi/

GPS = You did write that he was battling Dilawer khan.Do you refute that? If so i will make effort and show it to you. UK = Yes of course, after you had initially denied that any attacks were made against Anandpur Sahib prior to 1699. As I have told you before, a general does not need to be physically present on the front lines in order to mastermind an attack on the Sikh Panth. Some manage it sitting behind a computer screen in America (busily declaring half the Panth as non-Sikhs) after all :-)

UK = For Sikhs, Gurbani and scriptures, history and traditions in harmony with Gurmat are what reign supreme UK = I will get back to you on the rest of your stuff later. If you try to silence a Sikh, saada haunslah hohr vee vadh'dhaii :-)

UK = Come on Paji let’s not play the “literal” game. It’s pretty obvious what Laxmi, Durga etc refer to literally. If Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj says that there is no such bull (as per Hinduism) holding up the planet then surely we should not take the story of such a bull’s head being sliced off as being literally true?

UK = See my answer to Waljinder Paji above. For the record I actually believe you to be sincere in your Sikhi. However, I believe your interpretation of Sikhi is seriously flawed. You want to see a smaller Panth going forward. I want to see a stronger Panth in the future with the emphasis on Gurmat and Shabad Guru rather than the paintings you GPS want Sikhs bowing before.

UK = The only idea I can possibly suggest Paji is if you feel I am hurting your feelings on any particular post, hit me on pm and I will try to see if I can put my point so that it will cause a sincere GurSikh like you less offence. VJKK VJKF