swordsedge

if i was from england i would attend. its sad how the attention has suddenly shifted from 25 years anniversary of operation bluestar. we have forgotten the day on which Guru Arjan Dev Ji gave shaheedi and became the first martyr in Sikhi. we have forgotten the day which kickstarted the massacre of Sikhs all across punjab for 25 years.

people have forgotten about the hundreds of thousands of Sikhs killed in 1984 to focus on bowing to a troublemaker.

interesting

how many of our Gurus were born in Ramgharia lineage? none so how is Jagjit Singh Namdhari a Guru? the reality is each of these "castes" or "lineages" or "birthrights" have their own community problems and issues and rather than put them aside and put Guru Granth Sahib or the Panth or even humanity first they decide to declare a charlatan a guru to make themselves feel good about choosing to remain undisciplined rather than a Khalsa. i respect Baba Ram Singh for his courage but declaring him as Guru equal to Guru Granth Sahib or above authority of Guru Khalsa Panth isnt the future its backwards. everytime one person has supreme authority they begin abusing their power which is why Khalsa Panth was started in first place. even Banda Bahadur was taught this lesson by Guru Sahib. Guru Gobind Singh ji made all the arrangements before passing Gurgaddi to Guru Granth Sahib. One was the completion of Guru Granth Sahib including all the banis for Sikhs to follow and revere henceforth as Guru. Another is charanamrit was replaced by khande batte di pahul amrit as Guru ji knew that there wont be any living guru after him. Namdhari Sikhs believe Guru Gobind Singh did not leave His body in 1708 but in fact played the act to escape the direct attention of the Mughal rulers and continued to assist the Sikhs in times of distress. The theory of Guru Gobind Singh playing a trick on his Sikhs by asking them to look away while he walked on the funeral pyre is based on Giani Gian Singh. Giani Gian Singh he recieved Naam from the Namdharis. Giani Gian Singh writing over 170 years after the event follows the narravative of other writers but fills up the gaps with miracle stories. Kavi Sainapat who wrote Sri Gur Sobha is the writer whose work is the most contemporary. Unfortunately Sainapat does not comment on the cremation of the Guru but just states that the Sikhs after much grief and distress decided to cremate the Guru the next day. Had there been the 'trick' played by Guru Gobind Singh then Sainapat would have certainly have written about it. Giani Gian Singh writes about the 'Nar Natak' or human drama played by the Guru on his Sikhs. The Guru asked his Sikhs to look away he walked into the funeral pyre. Later on a Sadhu came to the Sikhs and told them that he had seen Guru Gobind Singh riding and hunting with his hawk. Giani Gian Singh's writings are full of fantasies such as these. Whereas writers such as Sainapat present the story of the Guru in a straighforward manner, Giani Gian Singh presents the same events by cloaking it with miracles and other unbelievable details. For one it is inconcievable that Guru Gobind Singh would trick his Sikhs. These weren't just ordinary people, they were the Sikhs that had been with the Guru in his battles against the Hill Rajas and the Mughals. They were people who had left their homes in order to place their full faith in the Guru's mission. How consistant is this story with the life of Guru Gobind Singh. Would the Guru deceive his followers, his Bhai Sikhs ( brother Sikhs ) ?. Then we have the added difficulty in believing that Guru Gobind chose to remain hidden during the time when the Khalsa needed him the most. There is no evidence available that Guru Gobind Singh having left Nander ever helped the Khalsa physically. Namdharis have no evidence of this hence its another lie. Ajit Singh Palit the adopted son of Guru Gobind Singh claimed to be the 11th Guru but he could not succeed because the whole Panth knew Guru Granth Sahib had been given Guruship. Because the Namdharis have to prove that Baba Ram Singh was a 'guru' they have tried to distort history to cover up the 100 odd years between Guru Gobind Singh leaving his physical form in 1708 and Baba Balak Singh. So the "Gurudom" of Namdharis relies on the lie that Guru Gobind Singh hid for over 100 years! They believe over 145 years after the parkash utsav of Guru Gobind Singh his Joti Jot was in 1812 and at this time Gaddi passed to Guru Balak Singh. Can Namdharis 'prove' that Guru Gobind Singh gave the Gur Gaddi to Baba Balak Singh making him the '11th guru'? The whole basis of Namdhari existence relies on the fact that you believe that your present leader is the same 'jot' as Guru Nanak. You decry the fact that after Baba Ram Singh the majority of Namdharis joined mainstream Sikhism but the main reason for this was that they refused to place their faith in Ram Singh as the '12th guru'. Where is the evidence that states Baba Ajapal Singh claimed to be Guru Gobind Singh? There is none. Yes, Bhai Kahan Singh stated that some people believed him to Guru Gobind Singh. But had this belief been more that just an ignorant belief of people impressed by Baba Ajapal Singh's spirituality. Baba Ram Singh did not consider himself as a Guru, his letters from prison testify to that fact. He always called himself a mere CHELA (slave) of the Guru. Many Namdhari Sikhs (mostly from the Hindu and Muslim communities), revere the Satguru as an Incarnation of God and receive the 'Naam', thereby becoming Namdharis, but do not partake Khande Da Pahul. Others do take Amrit. Why do Namdharis follow caste differentiation? Bhaini (Namdhari headquarters) has separate areas for the "chauthaa pauRaa" (fourth class) Sikhs ie. those who were once low caste but became Sikhs. They are given amrit separately and also have separate langars. Is not following the caste system a HINDU practice? However their claim of being amritdhari is weak as Baba Ram Singh chose to replace the Kirpan which was banned by the British with a stick (lathi) instead. Now why would someone whose aim was to resurrect Sikhism and who you believe was a Guru change the Khalsa Rehat?. yes, at that time it was difficult for Sikhs to wear a Kirpan but many still did so unmindful of the British ban. Why did Baba Ram Singh not challenge the British ban on the Kirpan? Most Namdhari amritdharis don't carry kirpan and instead carry a small karad or lathi or even more commonly a kanga with a kirpan etched onto it. In the report of the civil surgeon of Mergui, No. 99, dated the 29th November, 1885, he wrote: "I beg to report to you the death of the state prisoner Ram Singh, which event has taken place just this moment 4-30 P.M. The man has been in a decline some time past, and with the setting in of the cold weather, he had another attack of diarrhoea and complained of change very much. Another blanket was purchased and added to the other two he already possessed. The last attack of Diarrhoea set in on the 22nd, and all endeavours to induce him to take medicine having proved abortive, he was treated with small doses of opium, which he took readily. His diet was completely regulated and nourishment kept up at shorter intervals, his constitution already broken down from old age, frequent attacks of Diarrhoea off and on since the rains of 1883, an attack of general Dropsy in the earlier part of the current year and from general debility, he succumbed to the present attack and died quite exhausted at 4-30 P.M. in my presence, on 29th November 1885." The whole basis of Baba Ram Singh's popularity amongst Sikhs was because people thought he would resurrect the Khalsa Raj and throw out the British from Punjab. This belief was widely publicised by the Namdharis at that time. Namdhari Sikhs even still believe that "Guru Ram Singh" is alive. Before he was arrested by the British, he stated to his followers that he was going, but he would return and then passed on the Guruship to his Brother, Hari Singh. The British Raj has gone and over a hundred of years have passed since his death and he has not returned – is this not evidence of the falsehood in Namdhari belief? Havan, also called Jagg or Yagya is basically a ceremony that involves fire and sometimes also the recitation of Gurbani. havan was the main practice of Treta Yug then this does not automatically make it a practice for the kal Yug. In Kal Yug Nam Simran and Kirtan are pardhana. Namdharis do havans and are going against the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib. Namdhari Sant Nidhan Singh Alam was a "namdhari saint" and a friend of Guru Partap singh. An example is when Sant Nidhan Singh Alam accompanied Satguru Partap Singh when they visited land of Siam (Thailand) in the year 1934, while returning from Bangkok. Sant Nidhan Singh Alam was also editor of the Namdhari magazine, Kuka, in the 1930's he wrote 'Hum Hindu Hain' (we are Hindus) to refute Kahan Singh Nabha's book (Hum Hindu Nahin). Was he a Namdhari or a Sikh or a Hindu? It is in unlikely that such a book challenging the independent existence of Sikhism would have been written without the express consent of Guru Partap Singh. Namdharis say this book was written for unity of the nation. So Namdharis are such patriots that Sikhi can be misrepresented as long as the reason is unity of the nation. This explains why Namdhari Gurus were such good friends of the congress and the Gandhi family and why they allowed their followers to appear in the government produced propaganda videos to explain the necessity of 1984. To a Gursikh isn't Sikhi more important than the unity of any nation? Namdharis are no different from the Ram raiyas and the Dheermalias. In fact owing to the Dheermalias being from the family of Guru Ram Das and their Sodhi origin they probably had as better case than the Namdharis ever did. It is well known that Guru Amardas Ji's daughter Bibi Bhani Ji was given a boon in return for her selfless Sewa for Guru Ji and her Pitaji. She asked for the Guruship, or Gurgaddi to remain within the family. The Guru's were Sodhi's (from the Khatri caste) at the time. It of course makes no difference which caste they belonged to as these things are beyond Satguru Ji. However I just wanted to illustrate my point using this example. When after Guru HarKrishan Ji 2 fakes claimed to be Guru, Guru Tegh Bahadur revealed Himself to the Panth in such a way that the entire community of lakhs accepted him – why does Jagjit Singh not have this ability? The Guru's after Guru Amardas Ji were all related and belonged to the Sodhi family as promised to Bibi Bhani Ji. However, Baba Balak Singh who is claimed to be the '11th guru' was an Arora. Baba Ram Singh was a Ramgarhia, Baba Hari Singh '13th guru' was the brother of Baba Ram Singh and therefore also a Ramgarhia as have been all the other Namdharis leaders up to the present Namdhari Guru. Therefore, how is it possible that he is the next Guru? If it is possible, can any Namdhari Sikh please give authentic sources to prove that Jagjit Singh Ji is a Sodhi, and related to Guru Amardas Ji. If this is not possible, then unless they believe Bibi Bhani Ji was not given this boon, it is impossible to prove that there is a living Guru after the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. This would totally contradict the Guru's Hukam, that all Guru's after Guru Amardass Ji would be from the same family. In 1891 there were only 13025 Namdharis listed in the Punjab census. When Namdharis are asked why they are so few in number if not because of the failure of the cult and that anybody with any common sense can see through their fake Gurus they say Namdharis were forcibly converted by the Lahore Singh Sabha. Where is the evidence – provide simple newspaper reports of any such events? The simple fact is that those Sikhs who placed their faith in Ram Singh as a liberator of the Punjab from the british were disappointed because he was more of a religious figure rather than a political one. The more zealous of his followers tried to force his hand by attacking the butchers at Amritsar and Malerkotla and when he simply did not raise a rebellion, most Sikhs lost faith in him. After his death in 1885 the only namdharis that remained were the few families who had an incentive to continue the belief that Ram Singh was alive and would return. It is the descendents of these families that are still namdharis. In the 1940's their fake guru Partap Singh started something called 'pattar path'. This was in imitation of the Gursikh Akhand Path but what was particularly detestful about it was that it entailed the Angs of the Guru Granth Sahib being torn/separated from the Saroop and then passed to a number of pathis and the path then being done at the same time by 10-15 pathis and the path being completed in a few hours. Then these angs were burnt!. Can you imagine any of our Gurus doing something so disrespectful? The whole idea of dehdhari Gurudom is to lead you away from the Guru Granth Sahib and towards the fake Guru. This 'Pattar Path' was only stopped after the Sikhs protested and the Nihangs threatened to kill Partap Singh. Namdhari Sikh said their fake guru made it rain once in Kenya! wow. Maybe he should have gone to Ethiopia in 1980's when millions died from famine and made it rain there. In 1984, Jagjit Singh the namdhari 'guru' was a close friend of Indira Gandhi and the Gandhis family. He stayed quiet when thousands of innocent Sikhs were being massacred in Delhi in 1984 pogroms. Evan after Operation Bluestar, namdharis appeared in many sarkari videos to say how the Sikhs have no quarrel with the Congress Party or Government and that we had extremists we needed help with so Operation Bluestar was justified! This is the ridiculous lengths that Namdharis will go to. It's not surprising that they are so naive, I mean if you can believe in bakwas such as Ram Singh was a 'guru' and that Guru Gobind Singh did not 'joti jot samay' in 1708 but lived for another 100 odd years just to be able to give Guruship to Baba Balak Singh. Look at what the Guru achieved in 42 years and then look at what the Namdharis say the Guru did between 1708 and 1812 Look at the achievements of the ten Gurus from 1469-1708, 299 years of personal Guruship. Then compare this with the what the Namdhari 'gurus' have achieved in the 192 years from 1812 up to 2004.

actually you are mistaken. Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not sole Guru. Guru Granth Sahib Ji is spiritual leader, but in all temporal matters, then Guru Panth deals with these. hence Guru Panth can decide to shoot a cap in the a$$ of any dehdhari guru it wishes. admin please ban such troublemakers who have nothing to do but question authority of Guru Ji. also how many dehdhari gurus did Guru Gobind Singh Ji bow to? Guru Gobind Singh Ji bowed to Guru Granth Sahib Ji and bowed to the Guru Panth Khalsa when he received baptism so he could then be blessed with Amrit and enter the Khalsa Panth. is there no Bani of Guru Gobind Singh Ji singing praises of authority of Khalsa Panth? try reading Dasam & Sarbloh Granth and you will see why Khalsa will always be victorious over evil. Guru Arjan Dev Ji laid down on the floor so that Adi Guru Granth Sahib could have appropriate satkaar & maryada be respected. how many of our Gurus were born in Ramgharia lineage? none so how is Jagjit Singh Namdhari a Guru? the reality is each of these "castes" or "lineages" or "birthrights" have their own community problems and issues and rather than put them aside and put Guru Granth Sahib or the Panth or even humanity first they decide to declare a charlatan a guru to make themselves feel good about choosing to remain an undisciplined Ramgharia/Chumar rather than a Khalsa. the system of "castes" & "birthrights" were put aside by Guru Gobind Singh when he declared all people on taking amrit drink from the same bata, are one roop, one Panth distinct forever. all were invited to join. same way harimandir sahib is open out in 4 directions for all mankind.

sikhs and sikh dalits and all other peoples are brothers and sisters. i cant see how any khalistani group would be linked since dalits make up a large proportion of those supporting these groups. they loved sant jarnail singh because he was a man of the people, and a leader of the rural common folk. some anti-sikh forces are trying to drive a wedge and create hatred between members of the sikh community. KZF has totally denied involvement - they are being fitted up !! Akash radio and Associated press first leaked this story - clearly they should have verified the authenticity of the "email" befor leaking it to worldwide press. will they now apologise for this mistake? the truth will only come out in many months by then Badal and the anti-sikh forces will brand all sikhs negatively and turn the attention away from 25th anniversary of operation bluestar which badal helped take place. i was born in chamar family but am now immortal thanks to Guru Gobind Singh ji. now i want to hear an apology from those making wild unproven accusations. KZF has totally denied any involvement and has said chamars and other sikhs are brothers and sisters. this is an internal issue in chamar community. people like me who have left their chamar status and follow Guru Granth Sahib and believe they are Sikh are rising up against this fake human guru. we have been trying to prevent the dehdhair followers from gaining control in bhawan elections because when they get control of the temple they start doing beadbi and human worship and anti-sikh speeches. we need your support to kick these dehdhari followers out of our temples so sangat can have peace.

sikhs and sikh dalits and all other peoples are brothers and sisters. i cant see how any khalistani group would be linked since dalits make up a large proportion of those supporting these groups. they loved sant jarnail singh because he was a man of the people, and a leader of the rural common folk. some anti-sikh forces are trying to drive a wedge and create hatred between members of the sikh community. KZF has totally denied involvement - they are being fitted up !! Akash radio and Associated press first leaked this story - clearly they should have verified the authenticity of the "email" befor leaking it to worldwide press. will they now apologise for this mistake? the truth will only come out in many months by then Badal and the anti-sikh forces will brand all sikhs negatively and turn the attention away from 25th anniversary of operation bluestar which badal helped take place. i was born in chamar family but am now immortal thanks to Guru Gobind Singh ji. now i want to hear an apology from those making wild unproven accusations. KZF has totally denied any involvement and has said chamars and other sikhs are brothers and sisters. this is an internal issue in chamar community. people like me who have left their chamar status and follow Guru Granth Sahib and believe they are Sikh are rising up against this fake human guru. we have been trying to prevent the dehdhair followers from gaining control in bhawan elections because when they get control of the temple they start doing beadbi and human worship and anti-sikh speeches. we need your support to kick these dehdhari followers out of our temples so sangat can have peace.

sikhs and sikh dalits and all other peoples are brothers and sisters. i cant see how any khalistani group would be linked since dalits make up a large proportion of those supporting these groups. they loved sant jarnail singh because he was a man of the people, and a leader of the rural common folk. some anti-sikh forces are trying to drive a wedge and create hatred between members of the sikh community. KZF has totally denied involvement - they are being fitted up !! Akash radio and Associated press first leaked this story - clearly they should have verified the authenticity of the "email" befor leaking it to worldwide press. will they now apologise for this mistake? the truth will only come out in many months by then Badal and the anti-sikh forces will brand all sikhs negatively and turn the attention away from 25th anniversary of operation bluestar which badal helped take place. i was born in chamar family but am now immortal thanks to Guru Gobind Singh ji. now i want to hear an apology from those making wild unproven accusations. KZF has totally denied any involvement and has said chamars and other sikhs are brothers and sisters. this is an internal issue in chamar community. people like me who have left their chamar status and follow Guru Granth Sahib and believe they are Sikh are rising up against this fake human guru. we have been trying to prevent the dehdhair followers from gaining control in bhawan elections because when they get control of the temple they start doing beadbi and human worship and anti-sikh speeches. we need your support to kick these dehdhari followers out of our temples so sangat can have peace.

sikhs and sikh dalits and all other peoples are brothers and sisters. i cant see how any khalistani group would be linked since dalits make up a large proportion of those supporting these groups. they loved sant jarnail singh because he was a man of the people, and a leader of the rural common folk. some anti-sikh forces are trying to drive a wedge and create hatred between members of the sikh community. KZF has totally denied involvement - they are being fitted up !! Akash radio and Associated press first leaked this story - clearly they should have verified the authenticity of the "email" befor leaking it to worldwide press. will they now apologise for this mistake? the truth will only come out in many months by then Badal and the anti-sikh forces will brand all sikhs negatively and turn the attention away from 25th anniversary of operation bluestar which badal helped take place. i was born in chamar family but am now immortal thanks to Guru Gobind Singh ji. now i want to hear an apology from those making wild unproven accusations. KZF has totally denied any involvement and has said chamars and other sikhs are brothers and sisters. this is an internal issue in chamar community. people like me who have left their chamar status and follow Guru Granth Sahib and believe they are Sikh are rising up against this fake human guru. we have been trying to prevent the dehdhair followers from gaining control in bhawan elections because when they get control of the temple they start doing beadbi and human worship and anti-sikh speeches. we need your support to kick these dehdhari followers out of our temples so sangat can have peace.

sikhs and sikh dalits and all other peoples are brothers and sisters. i cant see how any khalistani group would be linked since dalits make up a large proportion of those supporting these groups. they loved sant jarnail singh because he was a man of the people, and a leader of the rural common folk. some anti-sikh forces are trying to drive a wedge and create hatred between members of the sikh community. KZF has totally denied involvement - they are being fitted up !! Akash radio and Associated press first leaked this story - clearly they should have verified the authenticity of the "email" befor leaking it to worldwide press. will they now apologise for this mistake? the truth will only come out in many months by then Badal and the anti-sikh forces will brand all sikhs negatively and turn the attention away from 25th anniversary of operation bluestar which badal helped take place. i was born in chamar family but am now immortal thanks to Guru Gobind Singh ji. now i want to hear an apology from those making wild unproven accusations. KZF has totally denied any involvement and has said chamars and other sikhs are brothers and sisters. this is an internal issue in chamar community. people like me who have left their chamar status and follow Guru Granth Sahib and believe they are Sikh are rising up against this fake human guru. we have been trying to prevent the dehdhair followers from gaining control in bhawan elections because when they get control of the temple they start doing beadbi and human worship and anti-sikh speeches. we need your support to kick these dehdhari followers out of our temples so sangat can have peace.

sikhs and sikh dalits and all other peoples are brothers and sisters. i cant see how any khalistani group would be linked since dalits make up a large proportion of those supporting these groups. they loved sant jarnail singh because he was a man of the people, and a leader of the rural common folk. some anti-sikh forces are trying to drive a wedge and create hatred between members of the sikh community. KZF has totally denied involvement - they are being fitted up !! Akash radio and Associated press first leaked this story - clearly they should have verified the authenticity of the "email" befor leaking it to worldwide press. will they now apologise for this mistake? the truth will only come out in many months by then Badal and the anti-sikh forces will brand all sikhs negatively and turn the attention away from 25th anniversary of operation bluestar which badal helped take place. i was born in chamar family but am now immortal thanks to Guru Gobind Singh ji. now i want to hear an apology from those making wild unproven accusations. KZF has totally denied any involvement and has said chamars and other sikhs are brothers and sisters. this is an internal issue in chamar community. people like me who have left their chamar status and follow Guru Granth Sahib and believe they are Sikh are rising up against this fake human guru. we have been trying to prevent the dehdhair followers from gaining control in bhawan elections because when they get control of the temple they start doing beadbi and human worship and anti-sikh speeches. we need your support to kick these dehdhari followers out of our temples so sangat can have peace.

sikhs and sikh dalits and all other peoples are brothers and sisters. i cant see how any khalistani group would be linked since dalits make up a large proportion of those supporting these groups. they loved sant jarnail singh because he was a man of the people, and a leader of the rural common folk. some anti-sikh forces are trying to drive a wedge and create hatred between members of the sikh community. KZF has totally denied involvement - they are being fitted up !! Akash radio and Associated press first leaked this story - clearly they should have verified the authenticity of the "email" befor leaking it to worldwide press. will they now apologise for this mistake? the truth will only come out in many months by then Badal and the anti-sikh forces will brand all sikhs negatively and turn the attention away from 25th anniversary of operation bluestar which badal helped take place. i was born in chamar family but am now immortal thanks to Guru Gobind Singh ji. now i want to hear an apology from those making wild unproven accusations. KZF has totally denied any involvement and has said chamars and other sikhs are brothers and sisters. this is an internal issue in chamar community. people like me who have left their chamar status and follow Guru Granth Sahib and believe they are Sikh are rising up against this fake human guru. we have been trying to prevent the dehdhair followers from gaining control in bhawan elections because when they get control of the temple they start doing beadbi and human worship and anti-sikh speeches. we need your support to kick these dehdhari followers out of our temples so sangat can have peace.

i was born in chamar family but am now immortal thanks to Guru Gobind Singh ji. now i want to hear an apology from those making wild unproven accusations. KZF has totally denied any involvement and has said chamars and other sikhs are brothers and sisters. this is an internal issue in chamar community. people like me who have left their chamar status and follow Guru Granth Sahib and believe they are Sikh are rising up against this fake human guru. we have been trying to prevent the dehdhair followers from gaining control in bhawan elections because when they get control of the temple they start doing beadbi and human worship and anti-sikh speeches. we need your support to kick these dehdhari followers out of our temples so sangat can have peace,

sikhs and sikh dalits and all other peoples are brothers and sisters. i cant see how any khalistani group would be linked since dalits make up a large proportion of those supporting these groups. they loved sant jarnail singh because he was a man of the people, and a leader of the rural common folk. some anti-sikh forces are trying to drive a wedge and create hatred between members of the sikh community. Akash radio and Associated press first leaked this story - clearly they should have verified the authenticity of the "email" befor leaking it to worldwide press. will they now apologise for this mistake? the truth will only come out in many months by then Badal and the anti-sikh forces will brand all sikhs negatively and turn the attention away from 25th anniversary of operation bluestar which badal helped take place.

does baba ranjit singh baptise followers himself as guru and gives same naam as fake radhasoami gurus? no? thats why he hasnt been shot. if you try and bring people to guru granth sahib and khalsa then you wont get shot. if one by one you ask people to have different flag, different ardas, different maryada, different Mat to that of Gurmat, different baptism, declare yourself guru equal to guru granth sahib, tell people to wash your feet and matha tek in front of guru granth sahib and have sikhs beaten up in front of guru granth sahib then you get shot. c'est la vie other members of my family who are still chamar and not amritdhari yet are not angry at this & nor am i. its the people who have been misled by this fake dehdhari guru that are worried that maybe its against the whole community but truth is Niranjan Dass and Ramanand are troublemakers. this action was NOT against whole chamar community. it was against 2 troublemakers who are always defended and so well protected with armed goondas and bodyguards that 3 of those who came were killed immediately. now we dont know for a fact who did this or why or what exactly happened all we have is unconfirmed reports, bogus emails, media spin and politicians quickly blaming groups of people to keep their votes before elections.

firstly it has not been proven that the KZF did this - only an email has been sent and anyone can knock up an email in 5 seconds and sign it Santa Claus it doesnt mean everyone should go beat him up or blame him when he is delivering presents. secondly brother i was also born in "chamar family" and my only links with this background were buying nike leather trainers and thats about it lol there are reports that he did beadbi of Guru Granth Sahib, that he made inflammatory statements against Gurmat, that sikhs were beaten severely by his chelay and that he was shot in retaliation. the reality is we wont know exactly what took place for many months whilst investigations take place. do you think in this day and age we have lots and lots of bhagats? or lots of fakes? this "guru" tells people dont take amrit and join khalsa, instead he gives naam himself which just happens to be same naam given by fake radhasoami gurus. i decided to take amrit later and am amritdhari now. i follow Guru Granth Sahib Ji only. i couldnt follow a human especially a dehdhari guru. we both know this dehdhari guru was shot for a reason. if you carry around chelay armed with weapons & goondas/bodyguards you have them for a reason. the people who follow this guy have caused enough frictions in ravidassia bhawans across europe and india. this guy was not telling people to follow Guru Granth Sahib and was instead gathering chelay. why should we wash his dirty feet? cant he run his own bath? i'm sorry but i'm sick of these people using our community and manipulating innocent people to pay them all their money and bow to him and wash his feet and wipe his backside. why didnt he just get a job like the rest of us? truth is no human is perfect - only Guru Granth Sahib and Bani is perfect. humans say & do stupid things and get shot - this is reality. the only way out of this is to stop following these fake people and instead follow what Guru Granth Sahib teaches, then we will find the answers to our questions. until then we will run around in circles following this human or that human who has no answers or doesnt even have a clue what he is doing in life.

confusingh & MistaSingh i agree with your points also. having been a chamaar i now accept my Guru as Guru Granth Sahib & Khanda Kesri Nishaan Sahib. but i also believe people only change external when the internals are right first same way person only accepts Bana once they understand Bani. what has happened has happened & most chamars dont care about this fake dehdhari guru anyway, who just wants us to worship him so we can only change the future. How many of you visit ravidasia temples? how many invite chamars to our mainstream sikh GuruGhar? when i once criticised someone for doing sewa "badly" they said "why dont you do it?" and then i had to put myself in their shoes. same way we need to put ourselves in the shoes of all backgrounds and make them feel welcome. How many of you have eaten parshad at ravidassia temple? many would shudder at the thought.. but this is because we arent following Guru Nanak's teachings. he ate a lot of funny stuff in a lot of different sangat purely out of pyaar. there is no difference between langar made by chamar or jat or anyone there is only mentality. we need pyaar to heal the wounds created by previous generations before people like this fake dehdhari guru come and rub salt in the wounds. how many do simran programs at these bhawans? or get involved in youth activities? or invite youth over to simran at mainstream gurughar? would you be happy if mazhabi sikh who became amritdhari was president at mainstream gurughar? would you be happy to eat from the hands of poor common lowly person? God is in the lowly not the lofty, when we realise this it is in our destiny Khalsa will rule the world.

Mista Singh Paji what if i told you ALL the problems in the panth be they spiritual or political could be solved in 5 minuites if only we had one ounce of the pyaar, nimmartaa and virtues our Gurus and GurSikhs of the past had? the names of GuruGhar, flags, Sohang/Hari or EkOnkaar naam etc these are very superficial but the main underlying issues behind these need to be tackled. BOTH communities need to learn our lessons from this. mainstream sikh gurughar need to do more functions and events e.g remembrance of Bhagat Ravidas anniversary or any events which will invite people from many different castes and many different backgrounds into mainstream sikh gurughars. truth is we allow older generations to manage gurughar who do the complete opposite and disrespect others on jaat/paat and do political events or elections which divide sangat. most ravidassia bhawans were built because of this disrespect. young sikhs dont even get involved in mainstream sikh gurughars let alone chamar temples. hence please brothers & sisters get involved in your gurughar, regularly invite friends & people from ALL backgrounds be they chamar/mazhabi/black/white/anything to your gurughar & show them the REAL message of sikhi we need to put pressure on mainstream sikh gurughars, institutions & groups to ensure they represent everybody and there are people from all backgrounds welcomed in and are actively involved even in management. Guru Granth Sahib doesnt mind who you are or where you're from - He just loves you no matter what. this fake dehdhari guru only pretends to care for one caste but Bhagat Ravidas belongs to everybody. this fake dehdhari guru doesnt care about chamars thats why he gets us to wash his feet and bow to him. he doesnt care about us. i was born in chamaar family & i would have taken this action myself if God granted me bravery. this fake guru is responsible for the beadbi & what took place because he didnt listen. when normal chamar sikhs ran our gurughar then this stuff never happens but when the dehdhari followers are elected to run our bhawans then this shooting happens. dont forget Dehdhari followers will gain support now so the only way to solve this is by going to chamar temples and showing true example of sikhi - show that same way Guru Nanak & Bhagat Ravidas's message is the same so too are Guru Nanak's disciples are still one community and one love with Bhagat Ravidas's disciples. get involved in our GuruGhars to ensure beadbi doesnt happen again by ensuring those people who respect Guru Granth Sahib & not followers of Dehdharis are elected to management. Jago! Guru Granth Sahib tells us we all would be suprised how far we could get in life with a little love, tolerance and respect

Singh the only thing the "Chamar" community need to do is, rename all of their Gurdwaras, accept Amrit Sanchar,use the normal ardaas and jaikaaras of the Khalsa Panth and thats it job done, i know its easier said than done but if the Chamar community really want to come under the fold of the Khalsa Panth thats whats gotta be done.

as someone born into "chamaar" background before joining Khalsa i welcome the action taken. these persons are not Bhagat Ravidas - we're talking about a Dehdhari Fake Guru - a troublemaker. most people from my background respect Guru Nanak and Sikhi and want mainstream Sikhs to help us by getting involved more with our temples to ensure Gurmat is being practised. we want help especially in temple elections to remove these Dehdhari followers so that beadbi doesnt happen ever again. we do not want to bow to any human especially a troublemaker. i used to follow him before i realised he is a fake like the radhasoami gurus are fake. i welcome the action but i dont trust the news as we will only find out what really happened in a few months time. all of the khalistan groups - even those abroad are long gone. all groups contained people from all backgrounds inc. chamaar so this doesnt make any sense. every single one was totally and utterly infiltrated by Indian Security Agencies back in 1980s let alone 2009. all of the real leaders were killed by their own infiltrators or other agencies acting on inside information. are we really going to trust an email?! please do not trust propoganda and new unproven claims. only trust facts and evidence. none of them are capable and BKI has already stated chamars are part of Sikh panth and nobody has any quarrel with anyone except with any troublemaker that does beadbi be he chamar/jat/thurkhan/black/white/whatever. but let me make this clear - most people from chamaar background do not want this troublemaker in our temples. we want to mix with normal sikhs in daily life as equals. we want to accept Guru Granth Sahib as our Guru and take amrit but like someone who has made repeated attempts we just need a little encouragement and respect and love and acceptance into mainstream community. so please be Peaceful, think before you speak and respect one another and lets all follow the teachings of Guru Nanak & Bhagat Ravidas contained in Dhan Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Conversation with person in charge of investigation: maybe i should've been nicer but it gets on my nerves that in truth behind all the front they give to reassure the public - nothing is being done

Email address: singhsabhacanada@hotmail.com , Youtube User :SINGHSABHACANADA this person is reposting again & again a lot of videos which are Anti-Guru Granth Sahib or Anti-Dasam Granth Sahib or are creating confusion over Maryada or are trying to take people away from Gurmat. Mod Edit: Please dont not post up people addresses etc. We urgently need to do something about these people who are abusing Gurbani and trying to create hatred and divisions

wish the Sikh Channel all the best & may it go from strength to strength. it would be good to see people with Jeevan at the forefront who people look at and dont think Politics & instead think Soul. to get this, it would be good if those running the channel went to those people who wouldnt normally come in front of the camera and also for those with Jeevan to put the Panth first and STEP UP. Of the Dharmik radio stations Amrit Bani is run well and if such people were to get more involved they would bring success as it is better to have people who have Jeevan & believe in Ekta involved. Here are some Programme Ideas: Kirtan Class 1 (Classical) Bhai Harjinder Singh Lallie runs a Gurmat Sangeet Class in Hockley, Birmingham - it woouldnt take much effort to record the class every week & broadcast it. He speaks english, is inspirational and a lot of youth would be able to relate to him & consider taking up learning with Classical Instruments. Kirtan Class 2 (Harmonium) Most Gurdwaras in Birmingham teach Kirtan with Harmonium & Tabla and this would help teach Sangat across Europe to learn from the comfort of their living rooms. Gatka Class Again ample existing classes near Birmingham run by english speakers that could be recorded Gurbani Santhiya Class / Punjabi Class Classes in Smethwick & Oldbury run by english speakers that could be recorded

cant believe what im readin 11 Saroops of Guru ji burned and nobody says anything? is Guruji NOT our family? maybe God should have taken away 11 members of our own families.. maybe that would have made us think.. is GuruGhar NOT our home? maybe God should have burned down our homes.. if they can get away with this they can get away with anythin. maybe they should have come for our mothers, our sisters and daughters instead at least there would have been some reaction. if the police dont find who did this then we will have to demand a different form of justice. it is better that the guilty be found and punished before people decide to take the law into their own hands. our Panth is not a bunch of cowards who will sit idly by and allow our Places of Worship to be targeted one by one and we say nothing, do nothing. if those in power do not denounce this action, if the media chooses to ignore this problem and if nothing is done then it will be brought to their attention by any means necessary. no more protesting singing Kirtan no more leaflets no more talking to the media & public no more shanti shanti peaceful marches. no more slavery if this is not an act of war against the Sikhs what is? if now is not the time for action when is?

Go to: http://www.rajkaregakhalsa.net/downloads.htm then click "Gurbani Fonts" i'd download all of them but the specific ones used on the webpage are "WebAkharThick" & "WebLipiHeavy".