SSD

WJKK WJKF

Veer ji, you cannot base your opinion on all Christians around the world from your experiences on the missionaries within the panjab.

Historical events usually end up with to components to the drive of such an event like the crusades, usually money and power. The vehicle for this is the hijacking of religion. In the case of the crusades, obviously Christianity. Fact of the matter is, terrible PEOPLE do terrible things.

As veer Johny101 has stated, the parchar, services and support for the people from sikh establishments and bodies should be increased and be the best it can be. As both you and I know, many so called parcharaks lack this passion and will use our nirmal panth Sikhi, to forward their own personal agendas, finances and maryada.

Here in the UK we have free speech, that means you can say what you wish. Everybody has the right to practice their religion. Again, In panjab, it's the parcharaks what fail. Here in the UK we have an excellent parcharak named Bhai Jugraj Singh ji, his passion for Sikhi shines and is a beacon, attracting the youth of today towards the light of Sikhi like a moth when a light is switched on. If you do not know of this parcharak, search for him on YouTube under "basics of Sikhi".

The way this parcharak dealt with the Muslim preacher "the Dawah Man" is in my opinion what lacks in panjab, open debate with the opposite. Once this is done, the light of Sikhi will shine without tainting Sikhs, through debate and conversation.

But being a sikh, living in the UK and experiencing many Christians, you are wrong to stereo type many people.

How many Christians have you actually met personally, to then judge the whole worlds population of them lol?

If your way of thinking was gurmat, Shiri Guru Gobind Singh would of treated every single Muslim as criminals, as the crimes of what Hindustan witnessed and was the victim of at the hands of the Mughal Muslims. However no such feeling has ever been recorded in ithias of any of our guru sahibs stereo typing any individual, irregards of caste, colour, sex or religion. Also at a time when so called Christians were causing much havoc in the world too, alongside the Mughals.

Also veer ji, it is not for a sikh too judge another, this job will be undertaken by Chit, Gupat, Dharamraj and Akal Purakh. Not you or me.

Your right(I know who Basics of Sikhi is,) I probably shouldn't have insulted all Christians, but my experience with most of them isn't the best. Also if you listen to "Militant Atheists" you'll know the flAws.

Can anyone please delete this topic? The racism has gotten out of hand since the beginning, now it's a white v.s. Brown war. Also in the future no one should ever make a topic involving race, or else this will be the topic,"All 10 Gurus were brown" because when we allow one instance of racism: more will come, "Sant Jarnail Singh Bhinderwale was a Jatt" both situations would be deleted, so this one should be deleted as well.

Majority are 3HO sikhs sorry to say. Harbajan does not represent what you call your normal sikhi. I abhor people that try to put 3HO sikhs on the pedestal just becaus they happen to be gorehs. This is done mostly by those that have their roots in punjab sadly! In fact, if you study them properly they are not sikhs but hindus in the disguise of sikh bana, because they don't do anything which resembles your normal day to day sikhi who are amritharies. I became a amrithari sikh by going to my local gurudwareh where I lived 20 years ago and I see the difference.

The person that started this topic should have had some sense before starting this debate. People are bound to interpret or react to his or her motive for doing so in different ways.

In the UK or Canada, most of the "Gorey" Sikhs are not 3HO, the majority usually learn about Sikhi, through some blessings. The first Gora Sikh was Max Arthur McAuliffe, before 3HO even existed. Martin Singh also. Became a Sikh without 3HO influence. It's really on relevant in America.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chandigarh/Turban-romance-takes-root/articleshow/44367294.cms

Despite, All of this has good intentions, I don't feel like it's for the right reason. We all want the future to be comfortable wearing turbans, but even if they were, if somehow they become "unfashionable" again, what will we do? Everything in the fashion industry is temporary, an example in this article is Patiala Shahi is more popular than Morni Dastar, personally, I think Morni Dastar is better, or Amritsar Shahi pagg.

The traditional Sikh method is to counter their parchar with Gurmat parchar. This is how Sikhs countered the Christian missionaries, Arya Samaj and Ahmadi Muslims by creating the Singh Sabha movement. Sikhs did not once use violence yet our forefathers were successful in spreading Sikhi while countering those other movements. Sikhi is the best and I say this with full conviction.

Despite Sikhi is the best religion, how exactly were they successful in countering Christian missionaries. The last time I checked there are over 2 billion Christians and over 2 billion Muslims and only 25 million Sikhs. I even made a previous topic on why Sikhi failed to spread, even if it's the best religion.

Very racist subject. Brown sardanies look nicer in or out of the sikh clothes. :biggrin2:

That is also promoting a form of racism, just because you feel one race looks nicer doesn't mean you should just say it on a form, especially in a religion that says,"Recognize all other women other than your wife as mothers and sisters. Do not engage in marital behaviour with them." 52 Hukams.

There are too many bad people in the gorra community too. These goreys do hindu things in the sikh clothes,bana. Deshmesh Pitta ji banned this. The gorrey not sikhs they Harbajan Kumar yogis pootleys. He done too much damage to our religion. He only intristed in making money from these dumb gorrey people. He turned sikhism into a big time cult. They are called cult memebers of HS yogi and not sikhs.

Just to be fair, not all white Sikhs are 3HO, some of them just came to Sikhi another way than yoga. I personally met a non-3HO white Sikh, it's just the most popular.

Ok, are there any other racists on this forum? Anyone we can amend on their ways? If you are please mention so now, because in this one topic, I've seen a lot of racism.

Really, your so brown called Sikh sardaania can cut their hair to fit in the western cultures, can shun and look down the bana ( in your immature mind,that wil cause amusement), and raise their children as patits,

No one is really stayed to the fact, Akj women have to wear Keski! I didn't want to mention a Jatha, but I had no choice.

Yes, I did mention that Vaheguru's light is on all, and some Christians are very nice people, but even those few don't make the 2 billion. If 2 billion people were good, this world would be a much better place, oh, if you mention Missionaries, they are the biggest thieves in the world. An example is Africa, in the beginning Africa was a very rich continent and respected continent for intellectuals to travel to, but then a man was born: Yeshua Ben Yosef. This man is the greatest conman that ever lived, being send as a messanger, he abused his right as God's prophet and started getting people to Jaap Jesus instead of "Yahweh". Guru Gobind Singh Ji said that God sent many people but they all failed, and spread their own believes instead of the truth. Also the Crusades were personally because of the Pope, the leader of all of Christianity at the time (the communicator with Jesus), just how liberal should I be? How many crimes can I forgive? Too what extend can I forgive Kirpal?

Also, Christians judge non-Christians based on one person all the time, you break the law, see how the Christian media considers you" Sikhs broke the law!" "Kill all these Sikhs"(similar to 1984) what they will forget, Hind Di Chadar. All logical thinking Christians become Atheists for a reason, don't you think?

WJKK WJKF

I didn't know the perpetrators of the above crimes you mentioned personally, however you simply cannot judge a whole religious percentage on the actions of individuals or groups of people who promote they are from the particular religion. That's somewhat ridiculous.

Also, the tennents of the 10 commandments, which derive from the Jewish Torah are the real basis of Chrishiantity. No book or record was ever recorded by jesus's own hand or during his life. It was written down after.

Do you not recognise the fact that the person who converts must have a weak connection to their previous religion? Maybe we should look at the reasons of why modern day sikhs would convert and establish some understanding. Sikhs are now settled all over the world, prospering, yet the birthplace of sikhi is in squalor, with not much respect for one another, caste issues, drug and alcoho lissues, poverty issues, farming issues including suicide, rape issues, murders carried out by the governments, genocide, self explortation, prostitution, individual dera babas and an let's not forget, female baby abortions. No wonder people wanna sell their land and move out! Do you not think, as Sikhs we should address these issues and question what do we do within our own nirmal dharam?

To judge all Christians by the doings of other Christians is silly, should we judge all Hindus on the way Sikhs were treated in 1984?

Have you ever heard of the Christian lady, Mary secole? Or the Christian nun Dhan dhan Mother Theresa, or William Wilberforce? Maybe Martin Luther King or even Doctor Cole, who tried to offer his service to shiri Guru Gobind Singh?

You also forgot to mention the "Sikhs" who were brought by the Brithish in the Sikh-Anglo wars, or the sikhs who promote their caste supremacy under the Nirmal panth of sikhi!

I find it's better to make a decision based on individual circumstances, rather than tarnish all, with the same brush.

Your posts on the topic " gori sardani sets a grey example" are kinda of relevant here, as you quoted gurbani, the light of Akal purakh is within all, that means Christians too!

On a personal note, I have met a few beautiful people in my life living in the uk as I am Brithish.

Many of these people were Christians who serve people with love, equality and humilty.

This Kirpal Singh is only demonstrating his weakness towards sikhi, in my opinion it is better that the weak links within our dharam break off and move on, leaving one United strong linked chain.

WJKK WJKF

Yes, I did mention that Vaheguru's light is on all, and some Christians are very nice people, but even those few don't make the 2 billion. If 2 billion people were good, this world would be a much better place, oh, if you mention Missionaries, they are the biggest thieves in the world. An example is Africa, in the beginning Africa was a very rich continent and respected continent for intellectuals to travel to, but then a man was born: Yeshua Ben Yosef. This man is the greatest conman that ever lived, being send as a messanger, he abused his right as God's prophet and started getting people to Jaap Jesus instead of "Yahweh". Guru Gobind Singh Ji said that God sent many people but they all failed, and spread their own believes instead of the truth. Also the Crusades were personally because of the Pope, the leader of all of Christianity at the time (the communicator with Jesus), just how liberal should I be? How many crimes can I forgive? Too what extend can I forgive Kirpal?

WJKK WJKF

Sikha, you have just judged millions of Christians all around the world in one little sentence lol.

http://ehmerapunjab.tumblr.com/post/12196199485/the-lost-palace-of-amritsar-clock-tower oh, the Anglicans were responsible for separating Punjab and making 40% of our Panth refugees, a Christian was responsible for Jaliawala Bagh Massacre, A Christian was responsible for the situation in Israel and Palestine today (not a Jew), the Crusades happened because of the Christians, Oak Creek happened because of a Christian. Ok let me make this fair and mention crimes Sikhi has done to humanity: N/A. Let's see what Jesus said, "I am the way the light and the truth, Nobody comes to the Father except through me!" Let's see what Guru Nanak said,(All the Gurus were the same, today's light comes through Guru Granth Sahib)"

Those who meditate on God attain salvation. For them, the cycle of birth and death is eliminated (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 11)." If we are going to say something about someone converting to Islam, or Dera Guru, we should also mention Christianity:(Made by an ex-follower Jesus, I recommend you watch it). http://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=fZBHByPUwlM

Topic is not about race.

Just admit you have some inferiority complex or superiority complex. In this entire forum have you ever heard anyone say" Look at this Khatri(Guru Sahib), he's an.example to all untouchables"? Or has anyone said this phrase" Look at these Punjabis, (Shaheeds) they do so much let's show our Punjabi power!"? The fact of the matter is if they mentioned that, then their topics would be closed down. Let us stay as human beings and leave race out of this! If I said anything about any caste(Jatts) doing something great, it would be closed for discrimination- "Look at these Jatt Sikhs preaching Gurbani to these Chammars and Brahmins, hooray for Jatts!" That's really how you sound when you posted this article. Guru Gobind Singh Ji wouldn't want any Sikh getting special treatment just because of their birth, even his own kids weren't treated or loved any more than he loved another Sikh or human being. Let's stick to this "ਜਾਣਹ੝ ਜੋਤਿ ਨ ਪੂਛਹ੝ ਜਾਤੀ ਆਗੈ ਜਾਤਿ ਨ ਹੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Jĝṇhu joṯ na pūcẖẖahu jĝṯī ĝgai jĝṯ na hė. ॥1॥ rahĝ­o.

Recognize the Lord's Light within all, and do not consider social class or status;

there are no classes or castes in the world hereafter. ॥1॥Pause॥"

(SGGS p349)

What's not interesting about this article? It's rather interesting in that Sikhism is not what the Gurus taught per se. I also think it's more than just a change from orthopraxy to orthodoxy, it's an entire world view, paradigm shift, that has resulted in a neo-Sikhi aka Sikhism.

I still do believe we need orthodoxy.

ਦਾੜੀ ਕੇਸ਼ ਤਾਂ ਕੋਈ ਵੀ ਰਖ ਲੈਂਦਾ, ਪਰ ਸਤਕਾਰ ਮਿਲਦਾ ਸਿਰਫ ਕਲਗੀਆਂ ਵਾਲੇ ਦੇ ਸਰੂਪ ਨੂ ! No wonder ਸਤਕਾਰ rhymes with ਸਰਦਾਰ !

I honestly don't understand the picture.

It's just a Pakhand, ask why he hasn't cut his Kesh? Dulip Singh cut his Kesh to be a Christian. This is just a man that wants fame, money, or power. Why else would anyone be a follower of Jesus? Also ask if this person was Amritdhari? Ask if they got up Amrit Vela? Ask if this person was a Drug Addict? This is all Pakhand: All of it!

india will fall in ur dreams....n buddhism will rule india n d world....no hindu no sikh no muslim buddhism will rise once n forever

Really? Is this anyway the great Buddha would speak? If you want to be a Buddhist, that's great, but actually follow what Buddha taught,(not being a hateful bigot).

Before we can get a Raj, we must be Khalsa first. That means doing what Gurbani tells us to do, and we must spread this teaching to the whole world, Guru Gobind Singh Ji didn't want his Sikhs dependent on him for creating a Raj, he wanted the Khalsa to actually get up and do it themselves, which is why they say "Khalsa Mera Roop Hai Khas"

How would we wear Keski and Dastaar, Kachera, Kara and Kirpaan in boxing or MMA? Suggesting to take them off is out of the question and that is big NO NO!

So Sikhi first. First and foremost Kakaars.

If soldiers can wear all that in the military, they can clearly allow Sikhs into boxing.

What matters most is what kind of a Sikh you are in Siri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib's eyes, and not what some immortal beings think of you. A Sikh isn't concerned about the world.

immortal? Definition: Immortal-Never dies. Vaheguru is the only immortal being.

agree but few bad people pollute others too.... .. and its a fact...

A few good people can clean that pollution.

When I was monah ,I used to think non baptized sikh girls can never be a good choice to marry with because majority of them are busy with guys who look like Gays or Girls because that time i was in uk. later when I hold the hands of Gurus, I got hair and turban on my head but was trimmer but used to think I would marry a baptized girl only . Later I hold the hands of Gurus properly, I became non trimmer too..Now I m trying to hold of my Gurus tightly so I would be baptized later or sooner. But the worse Thing I got on that stage is baptized Girls also have cleanshave/hindu boy friends . and my thinking has been in that way that I don't wanna marry in my whole life but only would like to do sewa of panth. I got this thing in punjab about sikh girls ... what would you say about other places man? sikh girls are busy in romance no doubt....

Just because a few people are stupid, doesn't make everyone stupid! Most Amritdhari females are usually not interested in romance period. Whether your Amritdhari or non- Sikh.

There are lots of amritdhari don't even follow the rehit if you can't follow it why taking Amrit from 5 pyare??? Rehit Vich kutreit kyu karde hoo

I know personally some people Okie I'm going to say it my chachi she took khande Di pahul long time ago she dosent get up until 9 she hardly do nitnem would you guys call her Sighni is she following the rehit , one of my cousin dated amritdhari girl even though he's clean shave she still dated him so who's wrong there??? You know what her reaction was god dosent stop you for loving anyone there are countless Singh singhniya who's doing big time kureit

You can not stop anyone no matter how much you explain

If they can't respect the Rehat, they can just leave and follow a different religion!

Best video on meat ever: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lRBOo8peNI0 just don't argue about it, our goal is Khalsa Raj not Vegeterian Raj.