Khalsa_Girl_1

I don't know if 'kkaurd' is still going to read this, but here are my two cents... First of all... Don't hate me, but I think it's absolutely ridiculous, that within the 3 year period of your relationship, this topic was not brought up. If a couple, like you two, who were and are serious about each other and have decided on marriage, then I don't understand why you two didn't discuss this matter earlier. I'm not trying to confuse you, or bash you..but it would make sense that a serious couple would have such discussions. You should have considered looking into this beforehand. It is, actually, quite confusing to hear that within those three years, you hadn't decided on such an important matter. :S Second... If you really love him, you'd accept his mother's wishes as well...but most of all, you'd accept his wishes too. To be quite frank, I used to always think the same way...that I didn't want to live with the guy's siblings or parents at all. I completely understand where you're coming from...but that's why you should find these kinds of things out first, and agree to marriage once you've agreed with everything else that is equally as important..such as living with his parents/sisters. All in all... I just can't believe your 3 year relationship is going down the drain because of something that should have been looked at beforehand. ..... Huh? Come again...? :S This doesn't have to do with Sikh way of life. What you're talking about is only in Punjabi culture. There is nothing wrong with thinking this way. The thing that IS wrong however, is that this wasn't discussed between you and him in the past three years. Future planning is much more than just where you're going to live, how many kids and/or cars you'll have. There are couples planning their kids names, and they don't even know anything about their families yet. I call this poor organization planning, lol. 99.9% of my friends are white so, again, I completely understand how you feel. But hey... You gotta remember that this is NOT religion. This is culture. Don't feel bad about not following the Punjabi culture. I think I follow only 5% of the Punjabi culture...which only includes wearing suits when I go to the Gurudwara, eating Punjabi dishes, and knowing how to read the language (but that's only because I wanted to read Gurbaanee in Gurmukhi format, instead of the Roman format...) I don't know how to speak Punjabi properly, and people talk bs about that all the time.Anyway... I'll be honest here.. Asking the sangat for help regarding this matter won't do you any good. The most you can do is stick with what you want ...ORRRRR... you can live with your mother-in-law until your sister-in-law(s) agree to take her into their respected home(s) Butttt...You're fixated on your decision, and his mother/he doesn't agree. Again...I still say this should have been discussed between the two of you, the couple, during the past three years. You can always just live really close to them too. Either way.. Hope you figure, and work it out penji. ...peace Also... People shouldn't think that only the girls think this way..about not wanting to live with the in-laws. Many guys are not willing to live with their parents either..but they have to either because the guy is the only son, or because he's the youngest. It's not only the girls who feel this way. The guys who think it's selfish for girls to feel this way should stop judging girls as inconsiderate or modern/western when it comes to this discussion. Guys should put themselves in the girls' shoes and try to understand why we feel this way. Personally, I would never want to get married into a household where I had to live with my in-laws because I feel that I don't want to have any parent-figures other than MY OWN parents. It's because I know I'd feel out of place, and that I wouldn't get along with the in-laws because of these feelings. It's not easy going to a house and living with people you don't know well, and it's also very difficult to see these new relatives as your own parents. Now, many people might say that this is still selfish because his parents are her parents, and her parents are his parents. Butttt.. The ones you lived with, who raised you, who taught you how to ride your bike, who showered you , who cleaned your nose and showered you again are your PARENTS!! I would NEVER feel like developing a mother-daughter/father-daughter relationship with anyone else. If I was ever going to marry, I'd definitely respect and care for my mother-in-law the same way I would respect and care for my own mother, but it's just impossible to love and spend time with her the same way. That's like asking a mother to develop the great relationship with her daughter-in-law, asking her to love and spend time with her the same way she did with her own daughter. That's just impossible, let alone asking a girl to get along with the father-in-law the same way the girl got along with her own father. That's even...harder. Girls are being asked of way too much, without people (guys) understanding anything at all. It's unfortunate to us because guys can't understand/feel this. 99%+ of you will never have to either. You guys are quite fortunate.

This is a sincere question. If it is not Gurbaanee, is it okay for the Shabad (yes, I think we should still call it a Shabad) to be sung at a Gurudwara, on stage etc?

They go to the Gurudwara/smaagams etc.. Gotta look up to the people who go there. ..respect _/\_ A lot of people would be looked down on if Kes-dharis started thinking it's okay to do that...which it's not at all... I took Amrit 10 years ago, and I've kept 3 Amrit-dhari friends since (It's rare to see Punjabis, let alone Kes-dharis, in the town I live in anyway.) I rarely go to smaagams etc cuz I'm usually unable to make it...but when I do.. I don't go and sit with/talk to people who're Kes-dhari because they're Kes-dhari ....nor do I go and walk away from people who aren't Kes-dhari <_< Who knows the Karma of someone else? :D We shouldn't judge anyone...there are also so many non-Kes-dharis who have everything checked off, except for the Kes...prejudging is wrong, no matter how you judge someone/something

I'm not married. Nor will my parents find someone for me.I wish to just go around and help others. Humanity work+marriage etc will make that difficult. My parents don't like appreciate it, but they are not angry with my choice either. In addition.. Even if I still would have wanted to eventually get married, my parents would not choose for me...lol In my opinion GHAR JAMAI would be ideal for U, Putting up a guy at your place, feeding him, washing & ironing his clothes and massaging his feet is the BEST HUMANITARIAN WORK which you could do ! As I mentioned earlier.. I'm not getting married. It isn't necessary for everyone right..............How can you have an opinion such as MARRIAGE for someone else anyway.... ? I know what is ideal for me, but thank you. .... I forgot what GHAR JAMAI meant anyway... Now that^^^ is for people in utopia.. Those are really good jokes though lol :rolleyes: Guys think they are stronger and can do a lot more than women anyway.. ...So....................moving an iron thingy shouldn't be too heavy for guys, right? I mean..my brother's been doing it since he was 9 years old. If my brother started it age 9, it should be the easiest thing for a grown man to do. *THUMBS UP* Great joke you have though... :lol: 8-) Feeding him....nice joke lol.. My baby cousin has been feeding himself since he was one. :lol: Oh...massaging his feet............ Massaging machines are way better. Your definition of 'humanitarian work' and my definition of the same word are not parallel to each other. So let's leave it at this. :lol:

Excuse me..? "Way to get defensive on the get go."??Err.. Maybe I didn't understand your previous post then... I was just contributing to/joining in on the conversation, so....it is happeningAm I missing something? :umm:

So please provide reasons people should be for it if you want us to think otherwise.

It's good that people think of protecting their sisters...except the problem lies in the significance of this day/belief.It is important for a guy to protect his sister. It is important for a girl to protect her brother. It is important for a guy to protect a guy. It is important for a girl to protect a girl. It is important for a guy to protect all girls. It is important for a girl to protect all guys. It is important for a guy to protect all guys. It is important for a girl to protect all girls. For those who want to celebrate this day strictly to show love to their sisters and brothers, that's a good thing. However, why with a rakhdee? It is actually a promise. The rakhdee means "I will protect you sister. In one year, I shall renew this agreement, due to the (one-year) expiration date." A guy is sitting in India, and his sister is in Australia.... That is what I call an unsuccessful raakhee lol. :lol: It will only be God doing everyone's raakhee. But meh.... If someone wishes to follow this Hindu ritual for even a day...that is quite sad. Instead of money, sweets and of course the rakhdee, why don't we Sikhs give other gifts? If you really wish to celebrate this day because it is as important to you as mothers day/fathers day etc... Then make it your own.. Why do it in the Hindu way, which is meant for guys telling sisters they will protect them..?

GOL GUP-AY is the way to go!! :lol:

My apologies then. Really sorry.And I ain't old <_< Lol...no, I don't really think you meant I'm old.. Just thought I'd smile along I'm not married. Nor will my parents find someone for me.I wish to just go around and help others. Humanity work+marriage etc will make that difficult. My parents don't like appreciate it, but they are not angry with my choice either. In addition.. Even if I still would have wanted to eventually get married, my parents would not choose for me...lol Does this mean that Gursikh men are allowed to marry someone of their choice more than women (from Punjabi background)?The above is not a rhetorical question, nor an indirect comment. It's a sincere question. You mean women? ...like 'how many women are bold and independent enough to make a marriage decision by themselves?' Or did you gursikhs..men and women? Yes.. Agreed....... ...... Agreed. ..... ..... Yeah..feminists shouldn't jump to conclusions. But... It isn't peoples fault for thinking that this belief is in favor of the guy and his family, instead of the girl and her family...when it used to be in favor of the girl and the guy. there is now greed embedded within these practices though, right? Agreed.. There should never have been/be such things as feminists.However, there are different kinds of feminists, so don't hate them all. In addition..can a guy really judge a girls thinking/mindset?

Thanks a bunch ji.

Umm.. Do you mind NOT referring to them as "Gods".. In addition.. These beings you're referring to as "gods" were obviously NOT gods since you stated that they would fall for the fairer sex.God is genderless. God is without kaam, krodh, lobh moh, hankaar.. OBVIOUSLY Here's another way to look at it. Even if it was true that there were a number of 'gods'... The 'gods' you mentioned must have been the weaker, less spiritual gods....because gods should not fall for the (fairer) other sex. That is kaam. Kaam=immoral Kaam=sin. Kaam=something a supreme spiritual being (who you said are considered 'gods' (through scriptures)) would not be captured into. By the way..Was Ram was a Hindu god? & what does bali mean? God is timeless.If they were considered as gods by people..or even believed themselves to be spiritual beings...time does not matter. An immoral deed is an immoral deed. For you to use that excuse for a person who was/is considered as a spiritual being...just makes me wonder even more.... About what you are.............. :rolleyes:

Even if you get asked to do so, make sure you get through without doing so. It would be going against the UN laws. They will ask you again and again to remove your Dastaar, but they know very well that they are allowed to let you through if you insist. BEFORE TRAVELING... Make sure you know the significance of the Panj Kakaars. This way, you won't look just like a stubborn person in the morning...or a suspicious stubborn person... instead of a Sikh. When they know that YOU know what you're Dastaar means to you/Sikhi, it'll be easier. Especially about this kind of thing... Guru ji does NOT want us to let it go without a proper standing ground. I remember I saw a lady who through her small Kirpaan in the trash. Wahiguruu... I had to pick it out of course, and got permission to give it to my dad...but the thing was she did not even attempt to SHOW that the Kirpaan.. Anyway... There is no harm in trying to keep your Dastaar on. :D

EVERYONE SIGN IT NOW!!!

I noticed that your avatar is quite amusing...you've had it for the longest time. Don't plan on changing it?

^^^Agreed Except for the fact that not every religion has BOTH good and bad.. I have yet to come across 'SIKHI' having something bad..in it... Have you read the Vedas? How about Puranaas? Gita? Mahabharata? I haven't either, I try not to make conclusions about stuff I haven't researched properly on. If you want to judge a faith, judge it not by it's people but by it's scriptures. ^^Is this directed at me?

^^^Agreed Except for the fact that not every religion has BOTH good and bad.. I have yet to come across 'SIKHI' having something bad..in it...

Again.. You clearly alienated the fact he was a Hindu...dentist...which is what was confusing. This is why I gave the examples in my previous post.You clearly pointed out in your previous post(s) that you believed there to be a connection to this harassment issue and the fact that the doctor/dentist has different expectations in society. Which is why I gave the examples of how one should not expect different attitudes/behaviours from an individual based on her/his profession. You related/relating the years of teachings these men are getting from their careers to their actions in the society outside the workplace.Again... There is no need of such connections. Professions have nothing to do with it. I am not an antarjaamee to know which statements are trivial, and which are not.I was just wondering why you were pointing out the fact that the man was a dentist...cuz it is clearly irrelevant. There's nothing I can do about the fact that my post was a waste of everyone's time.I didn't take your statement in the wrong context. I took it IN THE context it was written. :umm: You clearly stated the fact that that Hindu man was a dentist. That was completely irrelevant to the point you were making about Hindu men harassing girls. So how did I take your post in the wrong context? (You don't have to answer that. I don't wish to argue penji.) I was actually saying the same thing as Well.. If you would like to..(through PM) you can answer the questions I asked in my previous post. Those were my only questions. ...peace

Date whoever you want... Just make sure your views, beliefs, feelings and understandings etc are mutual. That doesn't you should change your religious beliefs, practices etc for love. the love for Guru ji/God should come before anything. Find what you want to achieve spiritually, through your religion etc.. Do not blindly follow what you think may be your 'heart', but instead is probably your conscience playing tricks on you because of your feelings. Just don't be tricked by several methods used by Muslims to convert you. They are all lies, but they say it in ways that will make feel a second opinion. For example: 'You were born a Muslim. You should convert back.' (untrue) 'The entire population of the world will be Islamic. It is said so by God.' (untrue) etc... We need to realize what Sikhi offers us, compared to what the person offers. For Amrit-dharis, it would OBVIOUSLY be senseless to choose someone who was not Amrit-dhari.

what are you saying> that doctors and dentists dont have that type of training?? on how to interact with people, their patients etc?? and what is expected of them in society? their moral and ethical obligations???? OHHHH.. Is THAT what you were getting at? LMAO!! To answer your questions penji: I must admit.. When the highly educated people are compared to the lesser educated, their job trainings DO NOT relate AT ALL to how they interact with people. Patients? Yes. People? No. I am completely against the (completely) unnecessary stereotyping when it comes to professions. 'Behaviours' and/or 'ways of living' DO NOT have anything to do with top-paying and/or top rated/high class (whatever one wishes to label them as) jobs. I don't understand why people think this way, either. Most people now, (those with strong family/cultural values/ties) who strive for further education, going for the "best" careers/jobs DON'T EVEN CARE about their fulfillment in life. They care about: A.] Reputation (within the family, parents pride and bs like that) Known as insecurity/ego/useless pride etc.. B.] Money (even though they'd probably get way better marks in other subjects, which would allow them to be more successful, they go for the tougher educational courses even when they do not get the marks they know they need) C.] 'Status/Class' (These jobs apparently give them sense of higher authority/status amongst the other workers.) This is also known as insecurity. ...NOT TO MENTION.. Can only marry someone who studied for the same amount of years, preferably skilled in the same field of study. Please look at this way: Depending on where his decisions in life (change of Karma take him)... "David Black" can become (let's say, 2 things in life- just for example, only those 2 things are in his Karma: Heart surgeon OR Mailman) POSSIBLE FUTURE #1: A man who is sexist, racist, discriminatory, disloyal to his friends & family etc becomes a very well known, reliable heart surgeon...who goes around looking for innocent girls with an ill-mind. OR POSSIBLE FUTURE #2: A man who is humble, as honest as he can be with everyone, colourblind, and who believes in gender equality, and becomes a very unpopular mailman. (as his only job.. Just an example people.. Don't get upset with me please.) OR POSSIBLE FUTURE #3: A man who is sexist, racist, discriminatory, disloyal to his friends & family etc becomes a very unpopular mailman (mean-no-harm example) ..who goes around looking for innocent girls with an ill-mind. OR POSSIBLE FUTURE #4: A man who is humble, as honest as he can be with everyone, colourblind, and who believes in gender equality, and becomes a very well known, reliable heart surgeon. Reading the above, could you still say the same thing as before? Here are REAL examples: Yesterday, I was watching a show called 'The Drs'. There was a (white -it has to do with the happening) woman who went tanning EVERY SINGLE DAY, and did not put sunscreen on. If she did, it would be a sunscreen with an SPF of no more than 15!! :| She had disgusting skin, and KNEW she was helping cause skin cancer. She said that she knew she not doing the right thing, but yet made her daughter tan too. ...Surprising part?.. She was a registered nurse at a hospital in Florida, obviously working with many skin cancer patients. SOOOOO.. Being a nurse for one person is different than being a nurse for another.She demonstrated poor effort in showing the knowledge of her training. She spread the incorrect, endangering msg to her daughter (I believe she was 7ish)..so how can she provide proper care and offer patients advice? Her moral and ethical obligations?...Yeah..pretty much down the toilet. What was expected of her in society? -To be more careful and mature about skin care, and to spread the knowledge. .......................OH..........................WAIT......................... If there is a family doctor who helps her/his patients live healthy/healthier lifestyles, she/he has carried out the expected duties right? The doctor takes an oath etc to state that she/he will do what she/he can to prevent harm to their patients' health. HOWEVERRRR.. They do not take an oath, stating that they will behave maturely, appropriately etc outside of the workplace. THAT is none of anyone's business. HERE IS A BETTER EXAMPLE: My cousin is is a surgeon, who works at a hospital, usually in the ER. He goes out partying, and he drinks a lot. Did he take the oath? Of course. Does he do it because of any stress? No. Does he do it because of peer pressure? No. There is no one to pressure him into anything. Must she interact with people outside of workplace in a different way than a social worker/mailman does? No. Why should she? Must she demonstrate an understanding/knowledge of her training in health/the medications with people outside of her workplace? No. Why should she? Must she follow the the thoughts of the people in society, regarding what she is expected to do? No. What are these expectations OUTSIDE OUTSIDE OF HER WORKPLACE and why would she have to meet them? Must she apply her 'career' morals and ethical obligations to the outside of the hospital? No. She is not responsible for that. People are people. Relating to morals, ethics, deeds etc..it does not matter what your profession is. You are a person underneath a set of uniform from a workplace. It does not matter what your profession is. Everyone has a heart. Everyone has a soul. Everyone has a brain. Everyone has a conscience. Those men were married, you mentioned. That enough to think the same way as any other human should. Those men had families. It shouldn't matter what their professions were. Having a heart, soul, brain, conscience, and a partner/family should be enough to interact well with people, behave like a civilized being is expected to behave, and of course stick to their moral and ethical beliefs. Just because one is a surgeon, does not mean that person should be expected to behave any more civilized than a person who worked as a janitor in a school. They are both humans, therefore both should behave in a humane, civilized way. They both have a heart, soul, brain, and conscience. The duties related to their careers do not include behaving in respectful manners outside of the workplace. Hope you understand where I'm getting at :lol: _/\_ ...peace

AGREED

Wait though.. Wait..!! What is the difference b/w a Dumaalaa and a Bunga? How should we pronounce this word 'bunga'?

I heard Amita Bachan actually engages in activities and such which are harmful to the Sikhs. I aint even gonna click on no link cuz I know I'll just get angry... STUPID GOV'T! MANMOHAN SHOUL ONLY BE A DOCTOR!! Not like he is helping the Sikhs as much as he actually CAN.. He knows MUCH MORE, so why isn't he taking action? Whatever.. Nobody answer that.....