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Akali

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Everything posted by Akali

  1. GuruFateh. On the 25th Anniversary of Indira Gandhi's assassination, I think it's worthwhile to have an intelligent discussion on her, Operation Bluestar and the subsequent aftermath. After her assassination, it was reported that Sikh's in the UK were celebrating her death by giving out ladoo's etc. This did happen because family members were at the Smethwick Gurudwara (Bham) and reported this as fact. Now, we as Sikhs have to look at the faults done by our own kaum. This is totally against the principles of Sikhi. Didn't Bhai Kanaiya give water to the enemy? Didn't Sikhs report him to Guru Gobind Singh who in turn said Bhai Kanaiya was a true Sikh becuase he understood the true meaning of Sikhi? But what did we do? Start celebrating like a bunch of idiots and look at what it caused in India. Sikh's were at fault too but certain people on this forum seem to be thinking that Sikh's were totally faultless and India and the Hindu's were totally at fault. Secondly, the aftermath. Supposed Sikh freedom fighters who belonged to various organisations commited terrorist acts and that's what they were. They killed innocent people by bombs, drive by shootings etc. These acts were totally against Sikhi. We do not particpate in <banned word filter activated>-for-tat acts. Otherwise you are no better than the supposed enemy that you seem to be at war with. Since 1984 and up until the present day, countless attrocities have been commited in Panjab in the name of Sikhi (bomb blasts being the main one) and don't bury your head in the sand and say that the government and hindu groups are behind every single one of them cos our own people have had their hands in a number of acts too. The bombing of the Air India flight. Was that a good act? If you think so, do not call yourself a Sikh. Our Guru's gave us something so special that we were different from everyone else, even in warfare, we had honour and principle. Just look at our history. I don't want idiots on this forum posting stupid pointless comments regarding Indira Gandhi etc. This is supposed to be an intelligent discussion. So please only post meaningfull items and discuss this matter in the right fashion. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.
  2. GuruFateh. On the 25th Anniversary of Indira Gandhi's assassination, I think it's worthwhile to have an intelligent discussion on her, Operation Bluestar and the subsequent aftermath. After her assassination, it was reported that Sikh's in the UK were celebrating her death by giving out ladoo's etc. This did happen because family members were at the Smethwick Gurudwara (Bham) and reported this as fact. Now, we as Sikhs have to look at the faults done by our own kaum. This is totally against the principles of Sikhi. Didn't Bhai Kanaiya give water to the enemy? Didn't Sikhs report him to Guru Gobind Singh who in turn said Bhai Kanaiya was a true Sikh becuase he understood the true meaning of Sikhi? But what did we do? Start celebrating like a bunch of idiots and look at what it caused in India. Sikh's were at fault too but certain people on this forum seem to be thinking that Sikh's were totally faultless and India and the Hindu's were totally at fault. Secondly, the aftermath. Supposed Sikh freedom fighters who belonged to various organisations commited terrorist acts and that's what they were. They killed innocent people by bombs, drive by shootings etc. These acts were totally against Sikhi. We do not particpate in <banned word filter activated>-for-tat acts. Otherwise you are no better than the supposed enemy that you seem to be at war with. Since 1984 and up until the present day, countless attrocities have been commited in Panjab in the name of Sikhi (bomb blasts being the main one) and don't bury your head in the sand and say that the government and hindu groups are behind every single one of them cos our own people have had their hands in a number of acts too. The bombing of the Air India flight. Was that a good act? If you think so, do not call yourself a Sikh. Our Guru's gave us something so special that we were different from everyone else, even in warfare, we had honour and principle. Just look at our history. I don't want idiots on this forum posting stupid pointless comments regarding Indira Gandhi etc. This is supposed to be an intelligent discussion. So please only post meaningfull items and discuss this matter in the right fashion. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.
  3. Gurufateh. I was wondering whether the sangat knew what the new building under construction at the gurudwara will be used for? Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!
  4. The previous poster is right. Only take supplements if you are going to hit the gym hard. I have been training with these supplements for a few years and have gone upto 230lbs in weight. You have to work hard or you will just bulk up. I am lean muscle because I train 5 times a week (sometimes 6) and have monster workouts as I have always been interested in bodybuilding. Also, in order to stay cut and ripped, I do 30-50 minutes of cardio a day as well. Hope this helps any Singh's who want to start training etc.
  5. GuruFateh! Just a quick question to all my fellow bodybuilding Sikh's out there. What supplements do you use as part of your training program? I have been using the following: Cyclone by Maximuscle 100% Whey Protein by USN Thermobol by Maximuscle I have been using these for a long time and have made excellent gains. Would just like to know what others use etc.
  6. One point which the 'Nihung' raised, I would like the sangat's views on it. He asked what are the sangat's views on sex within a marriage where there is no intention for reproduction. Wouldn't this be classed as kaam because you are lusting after your wife with no intention of having a child. I would like to hear the sangat's view on this.
  7. The only reason chamaar call Bhagat Ravidass, Guru Ravidass is because this gives them some claim to fame and also gives them some stupid ammunition to further segregate thmselves from Sikhi. You say the chamaar community would still be under the rule of Brahmins today had it not been for Bhagat Ravidass's efforts. Bhagat Ravidass did fight extensively for the rights of chamaar and underwent punishment as a result of this but to say that chamaar would still be under the rule of brahmins (had it not been for Bhagat Ravidass) is a big insult (in my eyes) to Dasmesh Pita Guru Gobind Singh who blatantly disregarded class/caste and made everyone onto the same level when he created the Khalsa. So all downtrodden people would not have suffered any oppression had they joined the path of sikhi, therefore, your point has no basis. Thats the problem with Ravidassia. Neither do they fully flock into Sikhi nor do they fully flock over to Hinduism (which some Ravidassia believe that they are), they always have to remain stuck in the middle and some even stupidly say that they are half and half. Like I said before, the Ravidassia community needs to wake up and stop segregating themselves and before you say that corrupt SIkhs won't allow chamaars on an equal standing, I can say, hand on heart that I haven't experienced this and no chamaar I know can say that they have. If you do face opposition, then combat that stupidity with Gurbani. There are many quotes from Gurbani which would support this. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!
  8. This is typical Ravidassia mentality and before you try and heckle me for this, just thought I'd let you know that I am from the 'Chammar' community, but I am one who has woken from the falsehood stated by this community and have embraced Sikhi fully. Bhagat Ravidass did make some powerful statements in his bani but so too did the other bhagats. Why then I ask you, is that none of these Bhagats have been elevated to 'Guru' status by their respective communities and only in Ravidassia gurudwara's will you find that they have (as I mentioned before about Union Row, Bham)? Moving onto your final statement. You state that you agree with the bhagats being the foundation layers and that Guru Nanak was the first Guru and then you ask how many others do? I'll answer that for you. The large majority of people on Sikh Sangat agree with this. A very large majority of Sikhs in general agree with this statement. The only exceptions are the Ravidassia community who are intent on keeping Bhagat Ravidass elevated to Guru Ravidass and changing elements of Sikhi to suit them and to continually say that they are something seperate when compared to Sikhi. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!
  9. What this person is saying is typical propaganda from the Ravidassia community that everyone mentioned in the Guru Granth Sahib is a Guru hence the reason why at the Guru Ravidass Bhawan on Union Row (off Soho Rd, Birmingham) has pictures of most of the bhagats in the Darbar Sahib with the labels of Guru Sheikh Farid, Guru Namdev etc. Lets take a detailed look. Guru Nanak was the only person to have met with Waheguru when he went missing for three days. Guru Nanak was given the Gian by Waheguru to start the path of Sikhi. This therefore makes Guru Nanak, the first Guru. How can any of the Bhagats be Guru's I ask? The Bhagats were foundation layers of the Sikhi faith and THE FIRST GURU was Guru Nanak. And I end by quoting Bhagat Ravidass from the Shabad 'Sachee Preet Hum, Tum Sion Jore': Jahan Jahan Jahun, Tahan Teri Seva, Bhagat Heth, Gaveh Ravidassa. Here it is clear for all to see that Ravidass refers to himself as BHAGAT. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!
  10. What's people's opinion on people who have had tattoos done before they got into Sikhi? I'll be honest, I have had a number of tattoos done BEFORE I found the way of Sikhi so what are your view on this?
  11. This is me speaking as a 'Ravidassia'. You say that sikhs in the modern world have not accepted Ravidassia to be Sikhs. Why should they when the large majority of Ravidassia still seem to be intent on classing themselves as something different i.e. that they are not Sikh's. I know this to be fact because I have experienced it first hand. All my family, except my brother and me (including my extended family) believe that they are not Sikhs but somewhere in between Sikhi and Hinduism. How can you be half and half I ask? Ravidassia are intent of following both practices of Sikh's and Hindus. There are dvd's and vcds available of the shabads of Bhagat Ravidass and then at the end of one of these dvd's I have seen, there is this Baba sitting on a gaddi whilst the shabad 'Naam Tero Aarti' is composed and having flowers etc thrown on him by Ravidassia. Another example is the Guru Ravidass Gurudwara on Dudley Rd, Wolverhampton. Bhagat Ravidass's janam dhin is coming up in February and every year, they host this in the community centre opposite the Gurudwara. However, this same centre is hired out to wedding parties etc where alcohol is consumed and other intoxicants and then they take the Guru Granth to this centre. The large majority of Ravidassia do not wish to be a part of Sikhi instead they want to be something of their own making hence the reason why they have elevated Bhagta Ravidass into Guru Ravidass so that they can say we have our own Guru and we are not a part of you lot, we are something different. According to you, I am a Ravidassia and I can say hand on heart, I have not experienced bad treatment from my fellow Sikh's. I have many Sikh friends and have not experienced not bad treatment from them or their famillies and they all blatantly know that I am a 'Ravidassia' I do not experience any bad treatment because I have embraced Sikhi. Bhagat Ravidass fought for the rights of our koum which we are all grateful for. The bottom line is that Bhagat Ravidass's bani is in the Guru Granth Sahib thereby making so called Ravidassia into Sikh's. The jaikara done in Ravidassia Gurudwara is wrong: Jo Bole So Nirbhai, Shri Guru Ravidass Maharaj Ki Jai, Bole So Nihaaal, Sat Sri Akal' Why do we only place respect onto Bhagat Ravidass?. In your post you said that you don't see what difference it makes if the jaikara is altrered. If we take what you say, then we should include all of the bhagats in the jaikara because they have all done something for the downtrodden people. On a final note, why is it that only Ravidassia have managed to make a seperate identity for themselves? There are numerous other bhagats that were on this world before Bhagat Ravidass, why haven't they got a seperate following? Our people (chamaar) need to wake up and smell the coffee. We are Sikh's and nothing else. All the bogus practices that are done by our community need to be stopped and then true Sikh's will not have a problem accepting us. Bole So Nihaal! Sat Sri Akal! Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!
  12. Sikhism is for whole of mankind be it muslims, christians , hindus , jains or buddhist. What to talk of Chamars who form the back bone of sikhism. Sikhi is a fusion religion of sort that is it makes people see the underlying unity in all the home sapiens. The chamars are having a complex due to there poor will to advertize themselves way other sikhs groups do . I had suggest that they to start makiig songs / picture / soldiers / like " Putt chamra de " version and rest we all Gursikhs will stand by your side and sing with you and all of us will be damned proud of it that chamars are one amongst us. Sikhi is the religion of under dogs ; it gives individual / community a sense of self confidence to stand upto any kind or form of oppression. so proudly say ----- " Putt chamara de will one day chak de phattte". :TH: :T: love hps jalandhar Gursikh I don't know if I'm misunderstanding this member but what will you get out of Putt Chamara de? If you are a Gursikh, why keep caste alive? I used chamaar and Ravidassia in my post in order to get my message across so people won't think that its just another Sikh saying things about chamaar etc. I am from that community but I don't have a 'complex' the way you are saying.
  13. GuruFateh! I was born into a 'Chamaar' family and was brought up in the fashion of believing that Bhagat Ravidass was Guru Ravidass. However, as I got older, I started to delve into religion with my own eyes and learn things for myself and not just what my parents, family and chamaar kom were saying. As I started going into the fold of Sikhi, I realised that a lot of what I had been told whilst growing up was against the teachings of the Guru Granth Sahib. Chammar have taken a more of a political stance where they do not know much about Bhagat Ravidass's bani but add their own rubbish and believe that. Examples: 1. Jaikara is 'Bole So Nirbai, Shri Guru Ravidass Maharaj Ki Jai, Bole So Nihaal, Sat Sri Akal.' We all know that this jaikara has had things added to the front. 2. Many so-called Ravidassia say they are not Sikhs and not Hindu's but are somewhere in the middle. As someone who was born into this community, let me say what I believe: 1. Bhagat Ravidass is a Bhagat, not a Guru. Guru Nanak was the first Guru because Waheguru chose him to bring forth the religion of Sikhi, therefore making Nanak into Guru Nanak. 2. Jaikara and Ardass should not be changed from what they are supposed to be. 3. I am a Sikh. To me, people who call themselves Ravidassia and do not associate with Sikhi are lost of the true path. The reason for this is that Bhagat Ravidass's bani is in the Guru Granth Sahib so how are we not Sikhs? I would like to hear the views of the sangat. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!
  14. Satnaam Sri Waheguru. Bole So Nihaal! Sat Sri Akal! Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ji Fateh!
  15. GuruFateh! The muslim veil is open to debate within Islam because muslim leaders can not decide fully if they have to wear a Hajab (covering the head, similar to a chunni) or wear a Niqab (full face veil with eye slits). However, after reading Quoran quotes, I think that muslim women are told to wear the Hajab. Regarding Sikhi, turbans are a must because our 10th Father Guru Gobind Singh made it compulsory. Also the 5 kakkars are compulsory for an Amritdhari so they can not be taken off regardless of the situation. In my opinion, that Christian woman suing British Airways regarding her decision to wear a crucifix is wrong. If company policy is that no jewellery is permitted, then none should be worn unless it is compulsory by that person's religion e.g. a baptised Sikh HAS to have a Kirpan and a Kara (which may be regarded by some ignorants as jewellery). If that women suing BA can provide where Jesus Christ stated that all Christians must wear the cross on the chain, then I would support her fully. But Christ never said that so her stance has no foundation. Likewise, if a Sikh had a khanda on a chain and was told to remove it, I would not argue because that is not a compulsory item for Sikhs. People need to be sure of other religions before they start using them in arguments as that woman said that Sikhs can wear turbans and muslim women can wear hajab whilst working for BA. I say fully research your argument before opening your mouth. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!
  16. GuruFateh! To download this film, go to www.khalsa.tv and you will find it. This is an excellent film and I encourage everyone to watch it. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!
  17. Sat Sri Akal! What's wrong with people today? Don't they know their own history. Guru Gobind Singh made it compulsory that Sikh's have to wear a dastaar. If these Christians can show me where Jesus Christ himself said that christians must wear the cross on a chain, then I will support the christioans fully! Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!
  18. Always has to be one fool that has to make stupid comments about other faiths! Some people never learn. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!
  19. GuruFateh! Veer, don't worry about it. When I started to keep my dhaari, the large majority of comments were from my family saying things like, 'what's going on here' 'do you need a razor' 'terrorist' etc. I laughed it off because I was proud of my beard and was in full agreement with the Guru's teachings. Their comments did not bother me as I knew that I was on the right path. Bottom line is that people make these comments because they are jealous. They are jealous because they haven't got that love for the Guru's teachings and jealous cos they haven't got the guts to stand out from the crowd and say I'm different from you, I look different from you because I am a Sikh of the Guru! Bole So Nihaal! Sat Sri Akal! Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!
  20. I thought that this 'one God' phenomenon was restricted to Judaism/Christianity&Islam. But it seems to me that sikhism too has rejected all other options outright ! This is strictly my personal opinion, but recently I have reached certain disturbing conclusions about this unitary God because most of the prophets of the Abrahamic religions as well as Sikhism also now as I learn have met extremely violent and tragic ends. As someone said on the net, even Shakazulu (king of Zulu tribe) of South Africa who was a very brave warrior and also believed in this 'one God' met with a very violent end. Jesus, Mohammad, Sikh gurus etc have all met violent ends, I often wonder if the one God was around why he couldn't protect his children and why he asked for their sacrifice ?? After all we humans believe God to be a nurturer and provider, giver and not a 'taker of human lives through sacrifices' !!! There is a certain dichotomy in this. I think you need to check your facts about the Guru's. Two of the Guru's were martyred and Guru Gobind Singh was stabbed by a Pathan but the rest of the Guru's remained fine. God asks for sacrifice when one states that he is above normal people. Sacrificing for ones belief is the ultimate and proves that you are a Sikh of the SatGuru and not just a closet Singh. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!
  21. GuruFateh! Thank you Bhenji for your honesty. The Guru's did say to only seek the company of good sangat. Bad sangat can have a negative effect on anyone and can further influence your beliefs. Our beliefs and way of life should be in strict accordance with the teachings of the Guru's. Any question posed by anyone can be answered by Gurbani. Moving away from the khalistan hatred issue, we see many people openly showing hatred to each other within the Panth. Gurudwara's have names which include these 'so-called' castes in them. People openly say hurtful things such as 'I'm not going to that gurudwara because it belongs to so and so caste.' How stupid and pathetic. If these people were bought into the fold of Sikhi and told that this hatred is very wrong, the Khalsa would reach the prominance it had before. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!
  22. Isn't it "mann jeete jag jeet" ? Sorry Paji! Was in a bit of a rush when I typed that out. Please accept my apologies. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!
  23. Sat Sri Akal! I do not wish to highlight only the khalistani's. I'm just giving an example. You have highlighted other areas that need sorting out. It is no point saying that those who hate etc are not Sikh's. As I stated in my second post, Sikh's are learners and everyone is at different steps with regard to Sikhi. These people who are hating are lost or straying off the true path. It is our duty to educate them and make them aware of what they are doing is wrong. I think it is pathetic to simply brush it unde the carpet and say that they are not Sikh's and somewhat seek the easy way out. If we can educate people and bring them into Sikhi, I consider that a good deed and I'm sure that is good in the eyes of Waheguru. A further example was in the Bhaman post where many sangat members made hateful and derogatory remarks about Hindu's and their faith. So I ask you S1ngh, would you say that those members are not Sikh's? I say that they are sikhs but they need to sort out some of the issues in their mind. 'Jagh Jeet, Man Jeet.' Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!
  24. GuruFateh! Having hatred will turn your own people against you. Many times I have heard and discussed with fellow singh's about the BlueStar aftermath and a lot of them hate certain elements of it. The proper soormeh were the likes of Shaheeds Jarnail Singh Bhindranwala, Sukhdev Singh Babbar, Baba Gurbachan Singh Manochal and countless others. But there was the other parties of people who infused with pure and simple hatred against India and Hindu's would have committed atrocities that are wrong. Regardless of the situation (Innocent sikh's were killed before and after 1984) killing innocent people on the other side does not make it right just because innocents were killed on our side. Punishing the organisers and perpetrators and giving them a fitting reply in terms of Sikhi was correct. A lot of khalistani's I have met are attacking people just because their opinions don't match their own. Here is an example: A friend of mine had an Indian flag in his car and a khalistani came up to him and hit him in the mouth and THEN said give me the flag. There can not be anyone on this site that agrees with this. This khalistani would have been better to explain to the veer what his reasons were for dislike of the flag and educate him. But by having a gung-ho attitude of hit first ask questions later will turn many sikh's against the principle of Khalistan. My friend became disillusioned with the idea of khalistan until I sat down with him and explained the whole situation and the need for khalistan. We as Sikh's can achieve a great deal more if we sit down and educate our Veer's and Bhen Ji's, a whole lot more. Another friend of mine had his arm broken and leg fractured by another so called khalistani because he did not agree in burning the flag. My friend supports khalistan but does not believe in committing childish acts such as burning the flag. A better approach (as stated before) is to educate and then let the Sikh's make up their mind. If the full story is told, there would not be many who oppose Khalistan. We also need to root out holier than thou attitudes. Many Sikh's believe that just because they have a kesh, they are automatically better than those without (Mona). Granted that the people with kesh are in the Guru's form as Guru Gobind Singh gave us the precious gift of the Panj Kakkar but I see many of these Sikh's with kesh doing things that are totally wrong or some do not have a clear understanding of Sikhi. I have come across a number of Moneh who have a better understanding of Sikhi and practice it a lot more than those with a kesh. They do not feel ready to grow a kesh as they say they are not in the correct mind frame with regards to Sikhi so they say 'we do not want to disrespect the kakkar by keeping them whilst our minds are not fully on track with Sikhi.' They say they would rather be Moneh for the time being rather than grow a kesh and disrespect it as they have seen many others do. Like I said in my previous post, all SIkh's are on different levels with regards to Sikhi. Some are lower down on the ladder than others whilst some are further up the ladder than others. We shouldn't say you are not a Sikh because you do not have kesh. These moneh are still learners of Sikhi, they are learning and hopefully, with Waheguru's kirpa, they will find enlightenment and follow with a full heart, the beautiful path of Sikhi. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!
  25. GuruFateh! Everywhere I look (personal experience, SikhSangat etc) I see a great deal of hatred. Hatred towards Hindu's (whom most people just take the mickey out of), hatred towards India and most importantly hatred towards each other within our Panth. People in our own panth openly criticise each other in ways that were forbidden by the Guru's. We as Sikh's are learners and disciples of the Guru. We are all at different stages with regard to Sikhi so no-one has the right to criticise another by putting them down. It is our job to help our brothers and sisters and not put people down or engage in foolish conversation. Not so long ago, there was a debate with a Bhaman on this website. Many of the sangat members (you know who you are) resorted to childish name calling reminiscent of the school playground. We as Sikh's should know sufficient amounts of our history and Guru's teaching to answer questions posed by other faiths and not resort to name calling. There are Hindu's out there who have no problem with Sikh's but by the sangat behaving in the manner that they did, they are just providing ammunition to those organisations that are trying to cause problems between Hindu's and Sikh's. ACT AND SPEAK IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE GURU'S TEACHINGS! One other thing I do not like is the burning of the India flag. What will this achieve apart from making you look like fools to the world? This is just pure and simple hatred for India. Don't forget that many Sikh's died fighting for independance. What did the world think of the Iraqi's burning USA flags? Khalistan is an important issue but fight for it in accordance with the Guru's teachings. Hatred causes anger, in turn anger clouds the mind and this causes people to do things that they would not do. On a personal note, I have engaged in conversations with some 'hardcore Khalistani's' and from what I saw, they knew everything about Operation BlueStar and Shaheed Jarnail Singh Bhindranwala but when it came to the important aspects of the Sikh faith, they had no clue. And before any Sangat member starts moaning, I said SOME KHALISTANI's and NOT ALL KHALISTANI's. The Guru's fought against oppression and tyranny but never did they once have hatred for the enemy. I refer the sangat to Guru Arjan Dev Ji's Shaheedi and Guru Hargobind. Dasmesh Pita Guru Gobind Singh lost his four sons and yet never had hatred for the enemy. Many Sikh's are going away from the fundamentals taught by Guru Nanak Dev Ji and are embracing a more militant outlook that was never sanctioned by any of the Guru's. Guru Hargobind militarized the Sikh's but there was ground rules and I don;t see many people operating with these rules in their mind in todays world. Knowing what the Guru's taught is good, but even better is putting it into practise. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!
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