BhForce

This is basically a vicious video attacking 1) people who are doing Sikhi parchar and 2) bad babas including Radha Swami and Sacha Sauda, and just mixing the two together, which shouldn't be mixed. I wrote out some of the lyrics in English if someone wants a look: Some comments: What exactly is it that missionaries have against chimtas and dholkis? Granted, they're not the epitome of Raag Kirtan, but as a tool for singing in sangat, they're fine. Since the current topic is Dhadrianwale (and since DasmeshForce posted the link to this video in a thread entitled "Replies to Dhadrianwala") I'd like to ask: -Does Dhadrianwale live in a house like Sachkand? -Does he loot money? -If missionaries say, "You can wear whatever you want", why are they so against white clothes, or Punjabi clothes, or cholas? -What's wrong with keeping good relations with the media? Should you keep bad relations with the media? -What does Dhadrianwale have in common with Brampton, Thailand, Nurmehal, Chicago babas? -What do missionaries have against a dumalla and khandas? Why do they hate Khalsa bana so much? Also, do missionaries work for free, or do the missionary colleges charge for their booklets? (They charge for them. Oh, and as for the video objecting to credit cards, I see that the missionary college solicits credit card donations ("loot"?) here: http://www.sikhmissionarycollege.org/page.php?id=39 ) As for fordcapri's call for secret filming and outing of bad babas, I welcome it. Any and all bad babas should be ousted. Anyway, if anyone had anything really bad about S. Dhadrianwale (like a bajjar kurehit), would they be bothering with small stuff like khandas and so forth? S. Dhadrianwale has already stated that anyone including the biggest sants are not above the Khalsa rehit, and that surely includes himself, so I hope either the evidence will be forthcoming, or else if we're not going to help him reach the unlettered portion of the population of Punjab, at least we can stop standing in the way.

Thanks for pointing this out about the SoDar pauri. In all of the fuss about the amazing creatures from the Bachittar Natak, we totally forget all of the amazing creations of God from Rehras! I would like to very humbly request any brothers and sisters who are in doubt about Guru Gobind Singh Ji's bani to consider what you think about Guru Nanak Dev Ji's bani below. God has created all sorts of magnificent worlds and their inhabitants. Woe to us if we slander what we don't understand: ਸੋ ਦਰੁ ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ So Dar ~ That Door. Raag Aasaa, First Mehl: ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru: ਸੋ ਦਰੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਕੇਹਾ ਸੋ ਘਰੁ ਕੇਹਾ ਜਿਤੁ ਬਹਿ ਸਰਬ ਸਮਾਲੇ ॥ Where is That Door of Yours, and where is That Home, in which You sit and take care of all? ਵਾਜੇ ਤੇਰੇ ਨਾਦ ਅਨੇਕ ਅਸੰਖਾ ਕੇਤੇ ਤੇਰੇ ਵਾਵਣਹਾਰੇ ॥ The Sound-current of the Naad vibrates there for You, and countless musicians play all sorts of instruments there for You. ਕੇਤੇ ਤੇਰੇ ਰਾਗ ਪਰੀ ਸਿਉ ਕਹੀਅਹਿ ਕੇਤੇ ਤੇਰੇ ਗਾਵਣਹਾਰੇ ॥ There are so many Ragas and musical harmonies to You; so many minstrels sing hymns of You. ਗਾਵਨਿ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਪਵਣੁ ਪਾਣੀ ਬੈਸੰਤਰੁ ਗਾਵੈ ਰਾਜਾ ਧਰਮੁ ਦੁਆਰੇ ॥ Wind, water and fire sing of You. The Righteous Judge of Dharma sings at Your Door. ਗਾਵਨਿ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਚਿਤੁ ਗੁਪਤੁ ਲਿਖਿ ਜਾਣਨਿ ਲਿਖਿ ਲਿਖਿ ਧਰਮੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੇ ॥ Chitr and Gupt, the angels of the conscious and the subconscious who keep the record of actions, and the Righteous Judge of Dharma who reads this record, sing of You. ਗਾਵਨਿ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਈਸਰੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਦੇਵੀ ਸੋਹਨਿ ਤੇਰੇ ਸਦਾ ਸਵਾਰੇ ॥ Shiva, Brahma and the Goddess of Beauty, ever adorned by You, sing of You. ਗਾਵਨਿ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਇੰਦ੍ਰਾਸਣਿ ਬੈਠੇ ਦੇਵਤਿਆ ਦਰਿ ਨਾਲੇ ॥ Indra, seated on His Throne, sings of You, with the deities at Your Door. ਗਾਵਨਿ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਸਿਧ ਸਮਾਧੀ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਗਾਵਨਿ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਸਾਧ ਬੀਚਾਰੇ ॥ The Siddhas in Samaadhi sing of You; the Saadhus sing of You in contemplation. ਗਾਵਨਿ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਜਤੀ ਸਤੀ ਸੰਤੋਖੀ ਗਾਵਨਿ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਵੀਰ ਕਰਾਰੇ ॥ The celibates, the fanatics, and the peacefully accepting sing of You; the fearless warriors sing of You. ਗਾਵਨਿ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਪੜਨਿ ਰਖੀਸੁਰ ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਵੇਦਾ ਨਾਲੇ ॥ The Pandits, the religious scholars who recite the Vedas, with the supreme sages of all the ages, sing of You. ਗਾਵਨਿ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਮੋਹਣੀਆ ਮਨੁ ਮੋਹਨਿ ਸੁਰਗੁ ਮਛੁ ਪਇਆਲੇ ॥ The Mohinis, the enchanting heavenly beauties who entice hearts in paradise, in this world, and in the underworld of the subconscious, sing of You. ਗਾਵਨਿ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਰਤਨ ਉਪਾਏ ਤੇਰੇ ਅਠਸਠਿ ਤੀਰਥ ਨਾਲੇ ॥ The celestial jewels created by You, and the sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage, sing of You. ਗਾਵਨਿ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਜੋਧ ਮਹਾਬਲ ਸੂਰਾ ਗਾਵਨਿ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਖਾਣੀ ਚਾਰੇ ॥ The brave and mighty warriors sing of You. The spiritual heroes and the four sources of creation sing of You. ਗਾਵਨਿ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਖੰਡ ਮੰਡਲ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡਾ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਰਖੇ ਤੇਰੇ ਧਾਰੇ ॥ The worlds, solar systems and galaxies, created and arranged by Your Hand, sing of You. ਸੇਈ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਗਾਵਨਿ ਜੋ ਤੁਧੁ ਭਾਵਨਿ ਰਤੇ ਤੇਰੇ ਭਗਤ ਰਸਾਲੇ ॥ They alone sing of You, who are pleasing to Your Will. Your devotees are imbued with Your Sublime Essence. ਹੋਰਿ ਕੇਤੇ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਗਾਵਨਿ ਸੇ ਮੈ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵਨਿ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਕਿਆ ਬੀਚਾਰੇ ॥ So many others sing of You, they do not come to mind. O Nanak, how can I think of them all? ਸੋਈ ਸੋਈ ਸਦਾ ਸਚੁ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸਾਚਾ ਸਾਚੀ ਨਾਈ ॥ That True Lord is True, forever True, and True is His Name. ਹੈ ਭੀ ਹੋਸੀ ਜਾਇ ਨ ਜਾਸੀ ਰਚਨਾ ਜਿਨਿ ਰਚਾਈ ॥ He is, and shall always be. He shall not depart, even when this Universe which He has created departs. ਰੰਗੀ ਰੰਗੀ ਭਾਤੀ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਜਿਨਸੀ ਮਾਇਆ ਜਿਨਿ ਉਪਾਈ ॥ He created the world, with its various colors, species of beings, and the variety of Maya. ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਦੇਖੈ ਕੀਤਾ ਆਪਣਾ ਜਿਉ ਤਿਸ ਦੀ ਵਡਿਆਈ ॥ Having created the creation, He watches over it Himself, by His Greatness. ਜੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਸੋਈ ਕਰਸੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਨ ਕਰਣਾ ਜਾਈ ॥ He does whatever He pleases. No one can issue any order to Him. ਸੋ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹੁ ਸਾਹਾ ਪਤਿਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਰਹਣੁ ਰਜਾਈ ॥੧॥ He is the King, the King of kings, the Supreme Lord and Master of kings. Nanak remains subject to His Will. ||1||

Agreed, we should all work for as much unity as possible. Try to phrase disagreements in such a way as to bring everyone together.

As a summary, basically Bloom is saying that just like someone named Akal isn't the real Akal, or someone (today) named Jesus was named after another, the Jesus from 2000 years ago, similarly, it's Shiv and Raam must have been named after some other Shiv or Raam, which we would take to be God. In the second post, Bloom encouraged us to be open-minded, as there are all sorts of possibilities which lead to Gurbani being true, as opposed to simply mythological poetry. The link was to an article and CNN video about a girl born recently with four arms due to a genetic mutation.

Thank you for posting this news. Kudos to Manpreet Singh for standing up for 10th Master's bani. The indoctrination of thinking of Damesh Ji's Bani as a plot against the panth has reached a fever pitch. Above it says Daljeet Singh is Chairman of the Dharm Parchar Committe, but I thought there was a Chairman Tarsem Singh who is anti Dasmesh Bani. Anybody know?

For those that don't want to bother to read the article, the BBC used the Khanda symbol in a rape report. This is outrageous. Do they show a Christian cross when an Englishman rapes someone?

What's to say, it's Delhi. One the one hand, you have different Indian restaurant every night. And on the other, it's not like anyone is plowing fields.

Who says Babbu Mann's album was banned? There was a single post on this board saying that but without any link to a news article.

Bloom, thanks you for posting a very interesting interpretation. I always relish listening to additional interpretations of Gurbani. Gurbani is agam-bodh, and there are many levels of understanding, some or all of which can be true at the same time.

The CBC News article was amazingly hateful. The visit to Harimandar Sahib by Harper was simply to understand the spiritual antecedents of a large number of his constituents. Bringing up Air India and so on is totally irrelevant. Does the CBC bring up the sordid history of Christian Canadian discrimination against Asians, Komagata Maru, and the forced indoctrination in Canadian native schools every time the PM visits a Christian church? Taking or not taking parshad is everyone's right. But I'm skeptical about him not taking it "after being dissuaded by his aide, Alisa Mohammed". Why did this Musalmann feel the need to tell the PM not to take parshad in a Sikh shrine? Does she feel hatred toward SIkhs? Finally, I highly disagree with turning Harimandar Sahib into a fortress with special privileges when so-called Very Important Persons visit. As far as Guru Ram Dass ji is concerned, every visitor is a very important person. The Akalis have profaned the memory of our great Gurus. By the way, the tribune is not RSS; it's Arya Samaji.

I agree that it doesn't quite look proper for police and army men to go to Gurdwaras in uniform.

I posted the views of others above. Here are some comments from me: Regarding NS Chauhan: What sort of "kehar" (calamity) is Dhadiranwale bringing? Note: I'm not talking about bad babas. Anyway, for the babas they encourage: -Keep your hair -Don't do drugs, eat kutha, commune with strange women -Take amrit, keep rehit, recit Gurbani, love God & Guru For the singers side: -Drink kegs of alchohol, which then turns to drugs -Get involved in useless gunfights (pangas) -Be a member of a gang, generally shiftless -Be a Romeo -Have sex with members of your own pind Then Chauhan says the Baba uses the red light to steal from Sikhs. Could anyone post a few examples of Sant Dhadrianwala committing burglary or embezzlement? Then Chauhan says the Baba uses chimtas to steal jewelry. Could anyone post a few examples of Sant Dhadrianwala stealing anyones jewelry with a chimta?

Jai Tegang, I listened to file #120, but in it, S. Gurbachan SIngh doesn't talk about this shabad or Guru Arjan Dev Ji, but rather Guru Harkrishan Ji.

Funny how when an Englishman commits a murder, it's just a killing. When a desi or arab or some other non-Englishman does it, it's an honour killing.

I agree it's usually ends up badly when people ask for money. As far as I know, S. Dhadrianwale doesn't ask for money because he was told by his older sant not to. Do you have any information to the contrary? I agree we should help the poor and downtrodden. Please keep in mind that one person can't do everything. Also, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. So if people don't like that fact that S. Dhadrianwale has a car and there's a gurdwara in Patiala, wouldn't it also be good for the missionaries to sell off all their colleges and their cars and give the money to Delhi victims?

Jai Tegang, thank you very much for taking the time to point out the exact location of the katha on this pavan shabad. I will listen to it. No, I'm not doubting Guru Granth Sahib's bani nor Guru Gobind Singh Ji's bani. Just pointing out that the reasons that doubters doubt Dasam Bani (references to Hindu mythology) are also present in Guru Granth Sahib. Therefore, we should not doubt either. There are many ways to interpret this shabad. So too, there are many ways to interpret Dasam Bani, and we should not doubt it, although it's OK to disagree with a particular interpretation.

1. This Shabad is by Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Todee on Pannaa 714 ਨਿੰਦਕੁ ਗੁਰ ਕਿਪਾ ਤੇ ਹਾਟਿਓ।। ni(n)dhak gur kirapaa thae haattiou || The slanderer, by Guru's Grace, has been turned away. ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਭਏ ਦਇਆਲਾ ਸਿਵ ਕੈ ਬਾਣਿ ਸਿਰੁ ਕਾਟਿਓ।।੧।।ਰਹਾਉ।। paarabreham prabh bheae dhaeiaalaa siv kai baan sir kaattiou ||1|| rehaao || The Supreme Lord God has become merciful; with Shiva's arrow, He shot his head off. ||1||Pause|| The question is: Is Guru Arjan Dev ji saying that God took an arrow from the Hindu devta Shiva cut off somebody's head with it? This is an important question because we constantly hear from detractors of Dasam Bani about the devtas and other stuff they don't like in Bachittar Natak and other rachnas. But if they are going to reject Dasam Bani, because of: Deh Shiva bar mohe ihai Then, by the same logic, they'll have to reject Guru Granth Sahib ji. This has already started, and the editor of Spokesman has rejected Guru Granth Sahib Ji. 2. This is the way Manmohan Singh and Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa translated it (as the arrow of Shiva). But if you want to say, "that's just the literal meaning, you have to go for a deeper meaning": Well, OK, but then you have to go for deeper meanings in Dasam Bani, too. By the way, Principal Sahib Singh, translated it (the arrow of Shiva) as Naam. (Which is fine, but let's keep the same standard for Dasam Bani). 3. Please post other examples of mythological references from Gurbani or other points which detractors don't like in Dasam Bani, but are accepting (for the moment) in Guru Granth Sahib Ji, in this thread. 4. Postscript: Principal Sahib Singh failed to translated this sub-sentence in the shabad: ਅਪਨਾ ਕੀਆ ਪਾਇਆ । ਟੋਡੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ ਨਿੰਦਕੁ ਗੁਰ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਤੇ ਹਾਟਿਓ ॥ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਭਏ ਦਇਆਲਾ ਸਿਵ ਕੈ ਬਾਣਿ ਸਿਰੁ ਕਾਟਿਓ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਕਾਲੁ ਜਾਲੁ ਜਮੁ ਜੋਹਿ ਨ ਸਾਕੈ ਸਚ ਕਾ ਪੰਥਾ ਥਾਟਿਓ ॥ ਖਾਤ ਖਰਚਤ ਕਿਛੁ ਨਿਖੁਟਤ ਨਾਹੀ ਰਾਮ ਰਤਨੁ ਧਨੁ ਖਾਟਿਓ ॥੧॥ ਭਸਮਾ ਭੂਤ ਹੋਆ ਖਿਨ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਅਪਨਾ ਕੀਆ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ ਆਗਮ ਨਿਗਮੁ ਕਹੈ ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਸਭੁ ਦੇਖੈ ਲੋਕੁ ਸਬਾਇਆ ॥੨॥੬॥੧੧॥ He just skipped right over it. If he had translated it, it would have ruined his entire mode of translation. http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/darpan2/0714.html

I have a feeling this may end badly. Although Ragi Darshan Singh has been totally outlandlish in his quest, and in normal circumstances, deserves punishment. In the current circumstances, and the precarious state of Akal Takht and its Jathedars, I fear this may (at this time) lead a split of sorts in the Panth. I hope for the best, though.

I think we might be misled if we take the analogy of calling our Father's name if he were right in front of us too far. For one thing, some might start to question, why do we have to keep saying the name, shouldn't one time be enough? Whatever you're doing (fast or slow), if you're thinking of something else besides God, you're doing it wrong, and if you're thinking of nothing besides God, you're doing it right.

Babbu Mann One Night Stand featuring European women in various states of dress. "It's a matter of a single night. What's your opinion? Tuhi tu. It's just you, just you. Can I have a one-night stand with you? Oh ho oh ho. One one one. One one one. Girl: Come on now, just leave me alone. Girl: I want a man who wants to hold my hand. Girl: I want to be with him forever. May our youth not disappear." etc. Comments: "Tuhi tu." LOL Guru Gobind Singh Ji said this about God in Akal Ustat. (Tuhi tuhi tuhi tuhin) Babbu Mann says it about some girl. "One one one." Guru Nanak Ji said this about God. (Ek tuhi) There's a tuk by M:3 that says even if you enjoy 100,000 women, you still won't find peace. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ_yM6Nk7V4&feature=related Mittran nu shounk by Babbu Mann The inclinations of friends Summary: "Oh ho ho ho oh I have hobbies of pigeon competitions, girls, gambling, guns, gangs, gangland executions, alchohol, meat, and (oddly) God's name" Although I have to say the Kaum de heere isn't bad. If this means he's turned around, that's good. I think he made a mistake in trying to target Sikh preachers; he should have just talked about anti-Sikhs like Sirsawala and Bhaniarewala. And everyone would have been behind him. I think producers and the people responsible for songwriting made up the conflict on purpose for increasing sales by increasing media coverage.

That's a good perspective. In a sense, it would be like our panj piare. If you break our main laws (4 bajjer kurehits), you have to go before the 5 "judges". But it only applies to Sikhs, and if someone doesn't want it to apply to them, they can just say "I'm not a Sikh." The problem is many people have the suspicion that Muslims want to apply their law to non-Muslims as well. By the way, there are Jews who want to apply Jewish law to non-Jews as well. http://www.noahide.org/ http://www.noahide.com/

Hoshiarpura, friend, it's hard to understand what you're so angry about. The poster before you actually put in some hard time doing actual seva. As you hinted, it's probably been a while since you've been in Hoshiarpur. Sorry to say this, but while you're sitting in USA (or whereever), you put down those who preach in Punjab. Doesn't that seem hypocritical that sangat who wants to listen to the vichars of a particular preacher or sant can't ask them to come to Canada? Why is it wrong for a preacher to go outside of Punjab on the request of sangat. If you say it's because there's a need in Punjab, well there's a need in Punjab for you, too, right? Again, while the Christian missionaries are doing there thing, why are you so against Sikh preachers? Yes I know you said preachers are OK, sants are not. But your reasoning doesn't follow. You said sants don't do anything for the poor. But preachers, of course, don't, and can't do anything either, because they have to work, and they don't have a large source of funds. By the way, just to make sure we're talking about he same thing, what do you mean when you say "preacher"? What kind of preacher is OK by you? You said you don't like sants who come to Western countries. So does that mean sants who don't come to Western countries would be OK by you?

The news videos posted by Dashmesh force are somewhat more balanced. Here's what they say: The song says: "There was one Baba Nanak who traversed the world on foot. Then there are the babas of today who put a red light on their cars." SD criticized Babbu Mann. Dhadi Moranwali said that there's a section of society which thinks that preachers should walk to their programs. Guests on the program were Jagdev Singh Jassowal (Prof. Mohan Singh Foundation) and Prof. Sukhdial Singh, Punjabi University. Sukhdial Singh: Songs represent the feelings of the people. Sometimes, the singer is also in the group being sung about. For example, Babbu Mann is also a member of a group which is just as bad in the eyes of the public (i.e., singers). But the point that he raised resonates with the people. A big proof of this is that a lot of students have filled his song on their mobile phones, even though Babbu Mann isn't such a big Sikh. Host: Should the singer have been Amritdhari? Sukhdial Singh: Not necessarily. Also, what's the point of being a Sikh if you don't raise your voice against the bad elements of society? Although not all babas are bad, some are very good, some are bad, though. One of the bad things kar seva babas have done is to destroy historical buildings and put marble in its place. Hosts: There's a line in the song that says "Baba requested a bagful of notes. I heard the Baba bought a new car." Sukhdial Singh: There are good babas, and also bad babas. But the point raised by Babbu Mann is correct. I'm not in favour of Babbue Mann, I'm against some of his songs. Some people say there were no cars then, otherwise Guru Nanak might have used them. But, there's a luxury vehicle in every era. Guru Nanak could have went on horse or a buggy. Host: Some people believe Babbu Mann didn't attack anyone in particular, rather a pirated Youtube video which put pictures of particular sants with Babbu's song. Sukhdial Singh: Not every baba is good, not all are bad. Take Chapparchiri, site of Banda Bahadur's first battle. It's not on a main road, so babas don't build a gurdwara there. Here's the receiving information for TimeTV: Satellite INSAT4A @83o EAST Frequency 3725 MHZ Symbol Rate 26.666 M/S SYMBOL Position HORIZONTAL Band C

1. The first video was removed by the user (why?). 2. The second video by NS Chahaun says a) Babbu talked, and the Baba was inflamed, b) Babas have brought a "kehar" to Sikhi, c) the Baba is using the red light (lal batti) to steal from Sikhs, d) the Baba is using chimtas to loot gehanas (jewelry). 3. The third video is a presentation by two boys. This is true, listen. Now, sants are doing nindia on stages. They could help the poor instead; they could be travelling in Marutis, but Baba Ji doesn't accept this. No one has a right to talk about monas. Why do you fill people's minds with nindia. Why are you after his life (Babbu Mann's). Just preach religion, thinking of God. There are also those who think of God as ever present, and put those who have gone off the path back on the path. Second boy: They equate themselves with Baba Nanak, why now do they forget Baba Nanak? (Guru Nanak) Used to go by walking, but they (babas) keep cars, and 5-6 men with them. They just keep talking whatever comes into their minds. They put illiterate men behind themselves as followers and increase their stature, they are useless for poor people. Babbu Mann, by making a true and holy point, became a diamond of the Panth. He only showed the truth to the people; people slandered him for nothing. 4. First news video, ChardiKla TimeTV news presentation. They say that history and literature is a mirror. When we talk about Punjabi songs and culture, whether it be Waris Shah, or Heer Ranjh, the culture of the time, and its bad aspects are apparent. [i'll finish this later] 10. This a video that Youtube automatically showed a link to from the 3rd video above. I'll just summarise it so people can know what SD detractors are thinking. "Mom, I'll become a sant, a very strong and endlessly powerful man. Mom, I'll become a sant. I'll wear a long, white chola and wear a dumalla on my head with a khanda, I'll loot the people. Watch me, I'll live in a house like Sachkhand. While living, I'll loot money. I'll be so awesome, Mom, just you watch. I did a bachelor's degree and make you spend so much money, I fell at the feet of so many, but didn't get a livelihood from anywhere. I ran around like a dog. I'll become a Mahant of Brampton, I'll become a sant. I'll wear white clothes and always be fashionable. I'll tell a lot of sakhis and preach manmat, I'll make noise with chimtas and dholkis. I'll be known as a full sant, I'll be such a person of good qualities. I'll keep good relations with the media, and people will come to meet me after swiping their credit cards. I'll send my male followers to work, then I'll go and meet my female followers. I'll make my abode in Nurmehal (reference to Ashutosh), Mom, I'll light up lights there. There is such pleasure in this work, there is complete praise of sants, without any degree or education, not to mention lots of houses and cars, and the love of Bibis. I'll be the husband of many women. I'll check my female devotees by hugging them [reference to that fellow in Malaysia?]. I'll partake of pleasure in hotels in Chicago [reference to disgraced Sant Daljit Singh of Chicago]. I'll keep up my scheme for 20 years, put people into confusion, like Thakur Singh, no one will speak before me, even the Jathedars. Every year there will be my death anniversary, the sangat will increase its devotion. I'll increase love with leaders, and throw victuals to thugs. I'll be known as a brahamgiani and sant. Mom, and you'll have an army to do work for you, and you'll be known as Jagat Mata, and can have people fall at your feet if you like." Etc.

Khalsa_Girl_1, by bounding the limits of discussion, you've effectively prevented anyone from saying anything. The fact is you don't HAVE to do anything you don't want to do. The only reason for you to do so is if you want to feel part of a community. If you don't, do what you like. I'm sure you already know the answers to the questions you posed, so why ask? Gurbani doesn't have any tuks on the naming process, you didn't expect that it would, would you? It's not like the Bible, filled with stories and strictures and stuff. With love. Sorry, couldn't resist this: Were you thinking of naming someone Obama Singh?