AmanSingh1867

I thought he made good points. I don't believe in reincarnation and karma (as a supernatural law) myself, and I've come across more than a few other Sikhs who echo the same sentiments.

My Gurdwara does it on a weekly basis and I help out as much as I can. I also volunteer with municipal charities and food banks

Why not a 14 day food drive and feed the poor initiative? Surely, that would be much better for Sarbat Da Bhalla...

I suggest you take your own advice: You didn't quote anything in Gurbani; you took a single line out of context and it was in English as well, a poor translation at that (imo)...

Why are you taking single lines from Gurbani out of context? Post the entire Shabad and then we will have a better understanding of what is actually being said, I'm afraid you can't just take a single line out of context, twist the meaning and use it to support a position. Oh, and Gurbani also talks about goblins, demons and other mythical creatures- please tell me you don't think they actually exist...

I disagree. Gurbani also says that mortals can become "the very image of God." So are we also God?

I know I know lol sorry if it gave the wrong impression, I know you agreed with me I just meant why those people would accept the Gurus as God-incarnate but not Jesus Christ :o

Incarnations? Really? The Mool Mantar also mentions how Ik Oankar is "Ajooni"= without births and deaths, which kinda makes that argument impossible. There is no concept of incarnations in Sikhi because God is not born and God does not pass away. If the Gurus were God-incarnates, then why not Jesus Christ?

Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not God. The first thing Sikhs read every morning is the Mool Mantar and it is very clear that Ik Oankar is "without form". Ik Oankar is not a physical object which can bee seen with the eyes, neither the Guru Granth Sahib nor the 10 Gurus which came before it were God- God-conscious beings, certainly, but not God. That is my understanding

Alright men, time to start out own grooming service :biggrin2: (not serious). @OP, do you really think girls only go for clean shaven guys? One of my best friends has never touched a hair on his head, wears a turban and is dating a Muslim girl. Although granted he does trim his beard (not to the point of stubble, the beard is still pretty big), but it isn't hard for a sardar to date a girl, sikh//hindu/muslim or whatever, assuming he knows how to talk to people and is confident. And yes it p1sses muslim guys off, most of them, even the more "liberal" ones, can't stand the idea of one of "their girls" dating a non-muslim, especially if it is a turbaned sikh, given the history between our two religions. The girl is a pakistani, maybe things would be different if she was arab or north african. No muslim has ever directly said anything to him (he's over 6'0 and lifts, not surprised), but his girlfriend tells him all the time about how muslims tell her to break up with him. The hypocrisy is pretty funny.

Oh come on man, do you think everyone who claims to be a Brahmgiani/ gets labelled a Bhramgiani by other people actually is one? Do you believe every Baba who says he can tell you about your past lives and what will happen in your future? Yes, there are some people out there who are deserving of the title "Brahmgiani", but they are in the minority, for every true Bhrahmgiani out there, there's at least 4-5 fake ones looking to take advantage of other people.

"Personally, I do not care for the opinions of any sants or bhramgianis. More often than not, they are parasites to the panth that do far more harm than good. These blood-sucking sants/bhramgiani's think they know better than our Gurus?" Did you miss the bold part? I'm not saying they are all bad, but in my experiences, most are only out to take advantage of uneducated gullible people who don't know any better. And I am not apologizing for anything, because as far as sants/bhramgianis are concerned, there are 2 types: a) Those who live/preach in line with the teachings of Gurbani, in which case they have my respect, but instead of seeking their opinion, I would rather go to the source (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji) for advice and knowledge. b) Those who DO NOT live/preach in line with the teachings of Gurbani, in which case they DO NOT have my respect, and instead of seeking their opinion, I would rather go to the source (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji) for advice and knowledge. Nowhere in my post did I say that they are all bad or all good for nothing. I do not follow brahmgianis, the honest ones have my respect, but at the end of the day, I only follow Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but it's funny how Amritdharis who at one side, because they have taken amrit, among other things, have promised to treat all humans the same way. At the other side they think it is okay to share food with one group of people and not another. You don't take amrit and then become a good person. You become a good person and then take amrit. It's a journey of development. The concept of jhoota food has most likely been borrowed from the brahmins. It is a Hindu concept and has (unfortunately) seeped into Sikhi like so many other Hindu concepts. The concept of jhooth goes against the basic principles of langar. Langar represents togetherness and equality. Jhoot is egotistical. There is no way it can fit in with Sikhi ideals as it means you are separating yourself from those around you. What about milk? It is from cow udders. Is that not jhoot? What about honey? It is regurgitated by bees (it means it has been vomitted out by them), is that not jhoot? There are coffee beans that are extracted from animal feces, I have seen Amritdharis drink coffee before, is that not jhoot? Shri Hazur Sahib does not allow women to do seva. Despite the fact that Sikh women have led armies into battle and Guru Amardas Ji gave women control of 52 out of the 146 Piris he established. At Harmandir Sahib, they can't do Kirtan because of their menstrual cycles, this despite the fact that our Gurus shattered the myth that women are dirty or any less capable of realizing God than men, after Guru Nanak reminded the world that kings may be powerful, but they are still born to women. Sad that the followers of Guru Nanak by and large ignore his message today. Personally, I do not care for the opinions of any sants or bhramgianis. More often than not, they are parasites to the panth that do far more harm than good. These blood-sucking sants/bhramgiani's think they know better than our Gurus? The bottom line is this: despite anything the Panj Pyare, Akal Takht or anyone else may say, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is without contention the highest authority in the Sikh religion. "Sabh Sikhan ko hukam hai Guru manyo Granth." This idea of "jhoot", that one group of religious people is cleaner than another goes against everything taught to us in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our ONLY Guru, our eternal guide. So unless there is a scientific reason backed up by tangible evidence that Amritdharis are cleaner than non-Amritdharis, I am not buying it. I don't know why you brought sants/bhramgianis up anyways, all of our Gurus warned us to be wary of them, that we shouldn't follow them blindly, or do anything they say without a good reason. I follow no sant and no bhramgiani, nor do I care about what they have to say. I only follow Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, which has the same message, the same light of the 10 Nanaks that came before it. Where does your loyalty lie? With sants/bhramgianis, or with Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj? EDIT: Before someone decides to blow that last bit out of proportion, I want to make it clear that I respect both Akal Takht and the Panj Pyare, both entities were established for a reason and do have power within the faith, but they ARE NOT more important than Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, nor do they have greater authority than Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji within Sikhi. Anything Akal Takht or the Panj Pyare says needs to be put to the test against Gurbani, neither one has the right to issue hukams that go against the teachings of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in any way, shape or form.

Civilized discussion, not even once. :nono:

Glad I wasn't raised in India then, Punjabi culture is by far the worst thing that ever happened to Sikhi. 1) How are Amrtidharis cleaner than non-Amritdharis? And don't say it is because the act of taking Amrit makes you cleaner or that Amritdharis have hygienic principles they need to adhere to. I can't tell you the number of times I've been in the Gurdwara washroom and I see Amritdhari guys come out of the stalls and wash their hands without soap, or worse yet, leave without washing them at all. And then these are the same guys you see in the kitchen help prepare the food or in the langar hall distributing it to the Sangat. It is called common-sense, everyone has it, Amritdharis AND non-Amritdharis. If you can't be bothered to follow basic hygienic principles before you have taken Amrit, you won't do it after you have taken Amrit either. 2) I would never marry someone who drank or smoked, I would find that out before the marriage. And if she started drinking or smoking after we got married, then I am sure she would let me know. It's a pretty crappy relationship if the wife or husband can't communicate this kind of stuff with each other. 3) Honestly, saying "it is because the Panj Pyare say so" is a cop-out. Guru Nanak Dev Ji taught us to question everything, to not do something just because someone else says so unless there is a rational reason behind it. He rejected superstitions, fasts and pilgrimages for this reason. Unless there is a good, logical reason behind why it is okay to have jhoot from Amrtidharis and not non-Amritdharis, it is just another useless ritual.

Yes, most likely. Most people on here are British, while I am Canadian.

Your words were: "I'm sick of all you lot doing this, "this rehets wrong!" "This banis wrong!" Please, do show me where I ever said that. And this thread isn't about being a dog who eats after everyone. It is about sharing food with your non-Amritdhari spouse. Tell me what is wrong with that? Hygienic issues? Being Amritdhari doesn't make you cleaner than anyone else. "Vibrations"? Really?

When did I say "this Bani is wrong"? And what is the reasoning for not eating non-Amritdhari jhoot? Hygenic? "Vibrations"?

What does race have to do with anything? I wouldn't care at all if my son/daughter wanted to marry a white person or black person or purple person, as long as they were Sikh. Lots of "non-brown" folks, especially white people, have married Sikhs and adopted Sikhi as their way of life. As for the rest of it, most Punjabi kids these days don't give hoot about Sikhi. Often times the parents themselves can't distinguish between Punjabi culture, Hinduism and Sikhi., so who do you blame? The girls that marry non-Sikhs were never Sikhs themselves, even if they marry Punjabi dudes, it is highly unlikely the kids would turn out to be Sikhs anyways. But more guys marry non-Sikh girls than girls marry non-Sikh guys, lots of apnay guys get married to white girls, Hindu girls, Muslim girls, would the guy be able to raise his kids to be Sikhs if the mom is not one herself?

I am truly sorry you feel this way, I hope things get better for you soon. Hopefully something I say has value to you, here are my 2 cents: You should definitely read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, read Jaapji Sahib and understand what Guru Ji is saying. Ask questions if you don't get something, it will do you good. I have always felt really relaxed and peaceful when contemplating Guru Ji's Shabad, I hope you feel the same way when you do it. That being said, you can not rely upon simply reciting Bani to fix all your problems. Sikhi is not about repeating something over and over again, you are supposed to take what you have learned from the Guru and apply it into your everyday life. Get involved with sewa, any type at all. If nothing else, start going to Gurdwara and help out in the kitchen, clean, start off with baby-steps. Meet good sangat, I can not stress how important sangat is, especially if you come from a non-practicing family, surround yourself with Chardi Kala Singhs and Singhnis, that alone will have a huge psychological effect on you, it did on me a few years ago when I was going through a personal crisis of my own. Start volunteering, fund raisers, food drives, feeding the hungry, anything that will get you out of the house and will allow you to interact with other people. Most people complain about their lives no matter how well off they are. Humans are instinctively greedy creatures, we always want more, we are never happy with what we have. There is a very good reason why Guru Ji says to do Vand Chakko, to serve humanity selflessly: it is for us to realize that despite all our problems, there is ALWAYS someone out there who has it worse than us. The starving orphan in Africa who never knew a parent's love, the poor woman in an isolated village that gets beat by her husband every day, the person who just lost his/her entire family in a horrific car crash. We sit here in the first world, complaining about our problems- first world problems are not real problems, how dare we complain about our lives when there are people dying of starvation and thirst everyday, when there are people out there who don't have a place to rest their heads at night. Nobody's life is perfect, we all have problems, but I am sorry, do not think about killing yourself when there are hundreds of millions of people in the world who would do anything to trade lives with you, to have the opportunities and security you have, because they have none at all. I feel for you, my mother has quite a few medical problems as well and she has to battle against it every single day. But to throw your entire life away over them is taking the easy way out. Did Guru Gobind Singh Ji's 2 younger sons take the easy way out by converting to Islam? Did his 2 elder sons take the easy way out and run away from Chamkaur? Did ANY of our ancestors take the easy way out, even when threatened with death? No they did not, or else we wouldn't be here. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji has sustained us through centuries of misfortune and genocide. Guru Ji's Bani is more powerful than all of our problems put together. Build a relationship with your Guru, get in the habit of reading Bani and also make sure you understand it, do not read it just for the sake of reading, you want to know what Guru Ji is saying as well. Likewise, don't just read Gurbani, live it! Take what Guru Ji says and apply it into your life. Go to Gurdwara, surround yourself with positive Chardi Kala sangat, and do sewa, become the dust of the feet of all. Everything in life comes down to perspective, glass half full vs glass half empty etc... live a Sikhi lifestyle and you will soon realize that you have it better than most people in the world. There is a lot of suffering and pain in the world, suffering and pain that none of us have ever experienced and we should be grateful for that. And the greatest gift of all that you have is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, it is a gem that very few people ever discover, even among those people born into Sikh families. You have the opportunity, with Guru Ji's help, to turn your life around. Don't throw that away. Sat Sri Akal brother/sister.

I'm curious to know where in SGGS Ji it says anything about refusing to share food with someone based on anything other than their conduct and behavior. Guru Nanak Dev Ji did not make distinction between Hindu and Muslim. So sad that today we are making distinctions between members of our own Panth.

I would take you more seriously if you had the cajones to post this on your real account without going anonymous. As for your point, did you miss the parts where I said: "Brother, I won't tell you what you should or shouldn't do." and also: "If you really want to start wearing a turban, but are afraid of a backlash from the people around you, then just know that fear is one emotion that a Sikh does not feel."? Btw, I've kept kesh my entire life and also wear a turban (obviously). The turban on its own doesn't bring one closer to God. There are no magical qualities associated with a turban. OP said he wanted to wear a turban to show respect to God. So all the people in the world who don't wear a turban (98% of the population) are being disrespectful to God? If you want to please God, you do it through your actions. What you wear has little to no bearing on how good of a human being you are. Put on a turban when you are ready to give your head to the Guru. The turban doesn't make the Sikh, the Sikh makes the turban.

Brother, I won't tell you what you should or shouldn't do. Instead, I just want to let you know that there is much much more to Sikhi than wearing a turban and growing out your beard. And I say this as a guy who has both of those things. When talking to Muslims, Guru Nanak Dev Ji said: "Let mercy be your mosque, faith your prayer-mat, and honest living your Koran. Make modesty your circumcision, and good conduct your fast. In this way, you shall be a true Muslim. Let good conduct be your Kaabaa, Truth your spiritual guide, and the karma of good deeds your prayer and chant. Let your rosary be that which is pleasing to His Will. O Nanak, God shall preserve your honor." Sikhi is about action, action and more action! Having a certain look doesn't make you a Sikh, your works, your conduct, makes you a Sikh. It is wonderful that you love Guru Ji and want to take the next step by wearing a turban. But a turban does not show your love for God, service of humanity, being a good person, helping others is the best way to show your love of God. On the flipside, Guru Gobind Singh Ji has very clearly said that he is with the Khalsa. Putting on a turban and growing out your hair will bring you one step closer to being a Khalsa, even if you have not taken Amrit. You will be recognizable in a crowd of 100,000. If you really want to start wearing a turban, but are afraid of a backlash from the people around you, then just know that fear is one emotion that a Sikh does not feel

There is nothing to be afraid of. Do sewa at your Gurdwara, stay in the company of strong Sikhs and form a relationship with your Guru. It's great that you go to Gurdwara, and sounds like you read Bani as well, but do you understand what you are reading? It is one thing to read something, it is another thing completely to understand. Read Maharaj's Bani and apply it to your life, read English translations if you can't understand the Gurmukhi, you will soon realize that as a Sikh, you should not be afraid of anything, as long as your Guru is close to your heart, nothing can harm you. As for the grooming thing, relax, I don't think you need to worry about it too much. Just be smart, use your common sense. You aren't going to get abducted in the middle of the day on the street. Grooming gangs tend to go to nightclubs to find their victims, as a Sikh, there is nothing of value to you at a nightclub anyways, stay away from them and you should be good. Sometimes Sikh girls get approached on the street by Muslims, if it happens to you, don't be scared. If they are asking for directions or something, help em out, but don't start a conversation, don't stand around and flirt or anything like that. Just walk away and ignore them. Common sense stuff like not going out by yourself when it is dark, avoiding back-alleys, keep that in mind. If you haven't done so already, I suggest you show the documentary to other Sikh girls you may know. The more girls who see it, the better. Stay in Chardi Kala. You are a Sikh, fear is not an emotion that our Gurus or our ancestors knew. Neither should we.

Shabash pa ji shabash. I am sure that our Guru Sahibs, who taught us to be the dust of the feet of all, who taught us that it is better to eat with the poor and righteous than eat with the rich and greedy, would be real proud of us today for refusing to share food with those individuals who have not taken Amrit. How very humble of us, wouldn't you say?