AmanSingh1867

I thought he made good points. I don't believe in reincarnation and karma (as a supernatural law) myself, and I've come across more than a few other Sikhs who echo the same sentiments.

Good idea , start one.

My Gurdwara does it on a weekly basis and I help out as much as I can. I also volunteer with municipal charities and food banks

Why not a 14 day food drive and feed the poor initiative? Surely, that would be much better for Sarbat Da Bhalla...

I suggest you take your own advice:

quote Gurbani in Gurmukhi before you start preaching your English misinterpretation.

You didn't quote anything in Gurbani; you took a single line out of context and it was in English as well, a poor translation at that (imo)...

There are poems written on science. These poems on science are all factual. But why use poetic form to write science? Why write any message in poetic form? People with less knowledge would not take these poems written on science at face value. Simply because the facts are written in poetic form. With time i can see a lot more ignorance taking place. As many more people will call science false just because some writers have taken a poetic way to convey a message on science.

Something written in poetic form does not make the whole statement just a metaphor with half truths in it. This is one of the biggest mistakes any person can make when reading Gurbani or science for that matter. Poetry can be used to express the truth as it is used in Gurbani and science. Poetic form delivers the message home a lot quicker and sticks in the mind a lot longer. In Gurbani poetic form is used to instill a true message in a person.

Also absolute statement is a statement which cannot be wrong. Here is an example of an absolute statement:

​It will be sunny all day today.

In this statement there is no uncertainty on how the weather will be today or room for interpretation. The interpretation of this absolute statement is simple as today it will be sunny all day. If a person like you came along and said, "I interpret this absolute statement to say that the writer was saying it will be partially sunny today." Then every person that understands absolute statements will know you disagree with the absolute statement. No one that understands absolute statements will say you interpret it differently because there is only one clear interpretation of such statements.

Here is Gurbani in a absolute statement saying Guru is God:

ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਹਰਿ ਸੋਇ ॥੪॥੭॥੯॥

गुरु नानकु नानकु हरि सोइ ॥४॥७॥९॥

Gur Nānak Nānak har so▫e. ||4||7||9||

Nanak is the Guru; Nanak is the Lord Himself. ||4||7||9|| ang 864

Why are you taking single lines from Gurbani out of context? Post the entire Shabad and then we will have a better understanding of what is actually being said, I'm afraid you can't just take a single line out of context, twist the meaning and use it to support a position.

Oh, and Gurbani also talks about goblins, demons and other mythical creatures- please tell me you don't think they actually exist...

What I have made bold in the above shows lack of understand of absolute statements. Here is an example, if science says gravity is the force that holds everything in place. You have two choices either to agree with the statement as it is or disagree with it. You cannot change the translation to mean anything else because the statement is completely clear on what it is stating. It is an absolute statement. It did not state science says gravity is LIKE the force that holds everything in place. It says, "is".

More than once Gurbani has said the Guru IS God. But all it would take is one of these lines in Gurbani to show any person that an absolute statement has been made and their is only two ways around it. Either reject it or accept what is being said completely. Being a Sikh, you cannot reject any of Gurbani.

I disagree.

Gurbani also says that mortals can become "the very image of God."

So are we also God?

Read my post again, I was agreeing with you lol, I said the Gurus weren't incarnations.

I know I know lol sorry if it gave the wrong impression, I know you agreed with me I just meant why those people would accept the Gurus as God-incarnate but not Jesus Christ :o

Yeah, that's my understanding too The Gurus were supremely enlightened people, who were completely connected to God, but they were not "incarnations" of God as some people say.

Incarnations? Really?

The Mool Mantar also mentions how Ik Oankar is "Ajooni"= without births and deaths, which kinda makes that argument impossible. There is no concept of incarnations in Sikhi because God is not born and God does not pass away. If the Gurus were God-incarnates, then why not Jesus Christ?

Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not God.

The first thing Sikhs read every morning is the Mool Mantar and it is very clear that Ik Oankar is "without form".

Ik Oankar is not a physical object which can bee seen with the eyes, neither the Guru Granth Sahib nor the 10 Gurus which came before it were God- God-conscious beings, certainly, but not God.

That is my understanding

Alright men, time to start out own grooming service :biggrin2: (not serious).

@OP, do you really think girls only go for clean shaven guys? One of my best friends has never touched a hair on his head, wears a turban and is dating a Muslim girl. Although granted he does trim his beard (not to the point of stubble, the beard is still pretty big), but it isn't hard for a sardar to date a girl, sikh//hindu/muslim or whatever, assuming he knows how to talk to people and is confident.

And yes it p1sses muslim guys off, most of them, even the more "liberal" ones, can't stand the idea of one of "their girls" dating a non-muslim, especially if it is a turbaned sikh, given the history between our two religions. The girl is a pakistani, maybe things would be different if she was arab or north african.

No muslim has ever directly said anything to him (he's over 6'0 and lifts, not surprised), but his girlfriend tells him all the time about how muslims tell her to break up with him. The hypocrisy is pretty funny.

He even said brahmgyanis WOW :no: !!!

How can a bahmgyani be a con artists the two can never add up ??

I for one have boycotted this foolish boy until / if he apologises for his comments otherwise nindak can and will go to hell

Oh come on man, do you think everyone who claims to be a Brahmgiani/ gets labelled a Bhramgiani by other people actually is one? Do you believe every Baba who says he can tell you about your past lives and what will happen in your future?

Yes, there are some people out there who are deserving of the title "Brahmgiani", but they are in the minority, for every true Bhrahmgiani out there, there's at least 4-5 fake ones looking to take advantage of other people.

countless sants/bhramgiani's have taken birth and never questioned eating Jhoot

you both must be higher level of bhramgiani's

Personally, I do not care for the opinions of any sants or bhramgianis. More often than not, they are parasites to the panth that do far more harm than good. These blood-sucking sants/bhramgiani's think they know better than our Gurus?

The bottom line is this: despite anything the Panj Pyare, Akal Takht or anyone else may say, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is without contention the highest authority in the Sikh religion. "Sabh Sikhan ko hukam hai Guru manyo Granth." This idea of "jhoot", that one group of religious people is cleaner than another goes against everything taught to us in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our ONLY Guru, our eternal guide. So unless there is a scientific reason backed up by tangible evidence that Amritdharis are cleaner than non-Amritdharis, I am not buying it. I don't know why you brought sants/bhramgianis up anyways, all of our Gurus warned us to be wary of them, that we shouldn't follow them blindly, or do anything they say without a good reason. I follow no sant and no bhramgiani, nor do I care about what they have to say. I only follow Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, which has the same message, the same light of the 10 Nanaks that came before it. Where does your loyalty lie? With sants/bhramgianis, or with Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj?

EDIT: Before someone decides to blow that last bit out of proportion, I want to make it clear that I respect both Akal Takht and the Panj Pyare, both entities were established for a reason and do have power within the faith, but they ARE NOT more important than Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, nor do they have greater authority than Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji within Sikhi. Anything Akal Takht or the Panj Pyare says needs to be put to the test against Gurbani, neither one has the right to issue hukams that go against the teachings of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in any way, shape or form.

Mr Khalsa ji and Savinderpalsingh ji,

Murkha deh nal nahi besi dah ! (That's what i have learnt from this forum)

Sach tah sach hi rehhay gah, teh rehat sach hai !!

Civilized discussion, not even once. :nono:

if you were raised in India with cultural values you would understand where this comes from

you being amritdhari can only share food with non amritdhari , and yes you are more cleaner .

only if you follow rehat

also, you don't know if your spouse has been drinking of smoking now or has done so in her past .

not only sharing food with non amritdhari is bad but

its more worse taking jhoot from such a person

because it indirectly infringes your rehat and sharing food with non amritdhari breaks your amrit

Guru Gobind Singh Ji said

from now on , any decission from panj pyaare would be my hukam

panj pyaare said "no jhoot" including sharing food with with non amritdhari spouse

then its hukam , sir mathe te

you wana quesiton guru go ahead .

the point comes when a person is arguing with guru is because

that person has been doing this from long line and love doing that thing

now when guru says its bad and the person , is like "no i wont change it i have not done anything bad"

the truth is that , that person doesnt love guru and cannot take his hukam .

just like dalla singh

Glad I wasn't raised in India then, Punjabi culture is by far the worst thing that ever happened to Sikhi.

1) How are Amrtidharis cleaner than non-Amritdharis? And don't say it is because the act of taking Amrit makes you cleaner or that Amritdharis have hygienic principles they need to adhere to. I can't tell you the number of times I've been in the Gurdwara washroom and I see Amritdhari guys come out of the stalls and wash their hands without soap, or worse yet, leave without washing them at all. And then these are the same guys you see in the kitchen help prepare the food or in the langar hall distributing it to the Sangat. It is called common-sense, everyone has it, Amritdharis AND non-Amritdharis. If you can't be bothered to follow basic hygienic principles before you have taken Amrit, you won't do it after you have taken Amrit either.

2) I would never marry someone who drank or smoked, I would find that out before the marriage. And if she started drinking or smoking after we got married, then I am sure she would let me know. It's a pretty crappy relationship if the wife or husband can't communicate this kind of stuff with each other.

3) Honestly, saying "it is because the Panj Pyare say so" is a cop-out. Guru Nanak Dev Ji taught us to question everything, to not do something just because someone else says so unless there is a rational reason behind it. He rejected superstitions, fasts and pilgrimages for this reason. Unless there is a good, logical reason behind why it is okay to have jhoot from Amrtidharis and not non-Amritdharis, it is just another useless ritual.

I guess it all comes down to our locality and what region we live in?

Yes, most likely. Most people on here are British, while I am Canadian.

I said ppl like u who love to argue say that. Also rehat says donmt be like the dog who eats after everyone, eat ur own food or with amritdharis.

Your words were:

"I'm sick of all you lot doing this, "this rehets wrong!" "This banis wrong!"

Please, do show me where I ever said that.

And this thread isn't about being a dog who eats after everyone. It is about sharing food with your non-Amritdhari spouse. Tell me what is wrong with that? Hygienic issues? Being Amritdhari doesn't make you cleaner than anyone else. "Vibrations"? Really?

If u love to argue hana and do kintu on rehat do so but don't go to me and my belifs okay! I'm sick of all you lot doing this, "this rehets wrong!" "This banis wrong!" Etcetc! Just leave us alone, if we want to follow the rehat let us! If u don't or CAN'T pls don't stop oher okay.

When did I say "this Bani is wrong"?

And what is the reasoning for not eating non-Amritdhari jhoot? Hygenic? "Vibrations"?

I think we are in a crisis. Will there be any sikhs left to marry with all the sikhs marrying out of religion/race ect.

What does race have to do with anything? I wouldn't care at all if my son/daughter wanted to marry a white person or black person or purple person, as long as they were Sikh. Lots of "non-brown" folks, especially white people, have married Sikhs and adopted Sikhi as their way of life.

As for the rest of it, most Punjabi kids these days don't give hoot about Sikhi. Often times the parents themselves can't distinguish between Punjabi culture, Hinduism and Sikhi., so who do you blame?

The girls that marry non-Sikhs were never Sikhs themselves, even if they marry Punjabi dudes, it is highly unlikely the kids would turn out to be Sikhs anyways.

But more guys marry non-Sikh girls than girls marry non-Sikh guys, lots of apnay guys get married to white girls, Hindu girls, Muslim girls, would the guy be able to raise his kids to be Sikhs if the mom is not one herself?

hi

this is my story i will try to make this brief as possible

i was born in sikh family but not much religious,about 3-4 years ago i got intersted in sikhism and for about a year i woke up at av and do paath,but i was kind of curious person,after searching internet watching videos i become an atheist,i started drinking,partying and stoped doing paath at all.but that was not the biggest mistake i made in life.one day i was soo fed up that i said some bad words about guru i thought that all religions are just made for getting money out of masses.then here i am after 2 years wanted to do sucide my life completely messed up got so many health problems,depressions and many more things.still i don't know about god but i do admit that my life was 100 times better back then.i am soo depressed, everytime i see my dads gun i want to shoot myself.some random days i woke up at av and start doing paath but i dont think it will work after this.i have also broken some promises (sukhna).when i started this atheist thing i used to have dream of entering gurudawara but its empty inside ie no guru granth sahib there i had this dream many times but now nothing.i am totally messed up also now i know that being normal is also special have some medical problems.my life is going nowhere i just sit alone in room thinking.i can't take this anymore.i dont know why i posted this here i am going to die anyway.

I am truly sorry you feel this way, I hope things get better for you soon. Hopefully something I say has value to you, here are my 2 cents:

You should definitely read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, read Jaapji Sahib and understand what Guru Ji is saying. Ask questions if you don't get something, it will do you good. I have always felt really relaxed and peaceful when contemplating Guru Ji's Shabad, I hope you feel the same way when you do it.

That being said, you can not rely upon simply reciting Bani to fix all your problems. Sikhi is not about repeating something over and over again, you are supposed to take what you have learned from the Guru and apply it into your everyday life. Get involved with sewa, any type at all. If nothing else, start going to Gurdwara and help out in the kitchen, clean, start off with baby-steps. Meet good sangat, I can not stress how important sangat is, especially if you come from a non-practicing family, surround yourself with Chardi Kala Singhs and Singhnis, that alone will have a huge psychological effect on you, it did on me a few years ago when I was going through a personal crisis of my own.

Start volunteering, fund raisers, food drives, feeding the hungry, anything that will get you out of the house and will allow you to interact with other people. Most people complain about their lives no matter how well off they are. Humans are instinctively greedy creatures, we always want more, we are never happy with what we have. There is a very good reason why Guru Ji says to do Vand Chakko, to serve humanity selflessly: it is for us to realize that despite all our problems, there is ALWAYS someone out there who has it worse than us. The starving orphan in Africa who never knew a parent's love, the poor woman in an isolated village that gets beat by her husband every day, the person who just lost his/her entire family in a horrific car crash. We sit here in the first world, complaining about our problems- first world problems are not real problems, how dare we complain about our lives when there are people dying of starvation and thirst everyday, when there are people out there who don't have a place to rest their heads at night. Nobody's life is perfect, we all have problems, but I am sorry, do not think about killing yourself when there are hundreds of millions of people in the world who would do anything to trade lives with you, to have the opportunities and security you have, because they have none at all.

I feel for you, my mother has quite a few medical problems as well and she has to battle against it every single day. But to throw your entire life away over them is taking the easy way out. Did Guru Gobind Singh Ji's 2 younger sons take the easy way out by converting to Islam? Did his 2 elder sons take the easy way out and run away from Chamkaur? Did ANY of our ancestors take the easy way out, even when threatened with death? No they did not, or else we wouldn't be here.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji has sustained us through centuries of misfortune and genocide. Guru Ji's Bani is more powerful than all of our problems put together. Build a relationship with your Guru, get in the habit of reading Bani and also make sure you understand it, do not read it just for the sake of reading, you want to know what Guru Ji is saying as well. Likewise, don't just read Gurbani, live it! Take what Guru Ji says and apply it into your life. Go to Gurdwara, surround yourself with positive Chardi Kala sangat, and do sewa, become the dust of the feet of all.

Everything in life comes down to perspective, glass half full vs glass half empty etc... live a Sikhi lifestyle and you will soon realize that you have it better than most people in the world. There is a lot of suffering and pain in the world, suffering and pain that none of us have ever experienced and we should be grateful for that. And the greatest gift of all that you have is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, it is a gem that very few people ever discover, even among those people born into Sikh families. You have the opportunity, with Guru Ji's help, to turn your life around. Don't throw that away.

Sat Sri Akal brother/sister.

Really? Tell me the concept of Khalsa panth then? Just creating more caste barriers being "Amritdhar!i"

I'm curious to know where in SGGS Ji it says anything about refusing to share food with someone based on anything other than their conduct and behavior. Guru Nanak Dev Ji did not make distinction between Hindu and Muslim. So sad that today we are making distinctions between members of our own Panth.

Are you saying dont wear a turban to someone who is trying to come closer to Guru ji, you are turning this person away from Guru ji's bana, shabash who needs enemies against the panth when we have so called singhs like you turning people away, oora and joora are the starting point but you are saying dont wear a turban, so how do you expect this person who feels something for sikhi to progress futher ??, keep your nonsense advice to yourself in future !!

I would take you more seriously if you had the cajones to post this on your real account without going anonymous.

As for your point, did you miss the parts where I said:

"Brother, I won't tell you what you should or shouldn't do." and also:

Brother, I won't tell you what you should or shouldn't do. Instead, I just want to let you know that there is much much more to Sikhi than wearing a turban and growing out your beard. And I say this as a guy who has both of those things.

When talking to Muslims, Guru Nanak Dev Ji said:

"Let mercy be your mosque, faith your prayer-mat, and honest living your Koran. Make modesty your circumcision, and good conduct your fast. In this way, you shall be a true Muslim. Let good conduct be your Kaabaa, Truth your spiritual guide, and the karma of good deeds your prayer and chant. Let your rosary be that which is pleasing to His Will. O Nanak, God shall preserve your honor."

Sikhi is about action, action and more action! Having a certain look doesn't make you a Sikh, your works, your conduct, makes you a Sikh. It is wonderful that you love Guru Ji and want to take the next step by wearing a turban. But a turban does not show your love for God, service of humanity, being a good person, helping others is the best way to show your love of God.

On the flipside, Guru Gobind Singh Ji has very clearly said that he is with the Khalsa. Putting on a turban and growing out your hair will bring you one step closer to being a Khalsa, even if you have not taken Amrit. You will be recognizable in a crowd of 100,000. If you really want to start wearing a turban, but are afraid of a backlash from the people around you, then just know that fear is one emotion that a Sikh does not feel

Fateh Ji

Can someone please help me out because i feel like im going crazy. I feel so so paranoid when i go outside. After hearing about the grooming programme and whats happening out there. i just feel so scared, especially when i see a Pakistani. I know this sound stupid but i just feel really scared. I dont understand why it has affected me in such a way?!?! but i just need guidance. I pray to Mahraj everyday and i also go to the gurdwara most days. I just dont know whats happening. The other day i thought someone was following me, my paranoia is playing up on me. I feel like im losing my mind. And then this therefore makes my anxiety worsen and it makes me depressed. Im finding it so difficult to live, my mind is messed up and i constantly fear God, even though this isnt what sikhi is about, its about love.

Can someone please help me?

Serious Answers Please

WJKK WJKF

There is nothing to be afraid of. Do sewa at your Gurdwara, stay in the company of strong Sikhs and form a relationship with your Guru. It's great that you go to Gurdwara, and sounds like you read Bani as well, but do you understand what you are reading? It is one thing to read something, it is another thing completely to understand. Read Maharaj's Bani and apply it to your life, read English translations if you can't understand the Gurmukhi, you will soon realize that as a Sikh, you should not be afraid of anything, as long as your Guru is close to your heart, nothing can harm you.

As for the grooming thing, relax, I don't think you need to worry about it too much. Just be smart, use your common sense. You aren't going to get abducted in the middle of the day on the street. Grooming gangs tend to go to nightclubs to find their victims, as a Sikh, there is nothing of value to you at a nightclub anyways, stay away from them and you should be good. Sometimes Sikh girls get approached on the street by Muslims, if it happens to you, don't be scared. If they are asking for directions or something, help em out, but don't start a conversation, don't stand around and flirt or anything like that. Just walk away and ignore them. Common sense stuff like not going out by yourself when it is dark, avoiding back-alleys, keep that in mind. If you haven't done so already, I suggest you show the documentary to other Sikh girls you may know. The more girls who see it, the better.

Stay in Chardi Kala. You are a Sikh, fear is not an emotion that our Gurus or our ancestors knew. Neither should we.