isingh1699

Great post bro + the only thing I'd add is that we should also stress that as per Gurbani the ultimate Guru is God alone. The ultimate source of all Truth is Akaal Purakh as our Guru Sahiban repeatedly stressed and stated.

Pyare Veer 13Mirch i totally disagree with the implication of your comment above. The Akali's with Longowal Ji as leader who wanted implementation of Anandpur Sahib called Damdami Taksal agents of Congress in 1980 when Sant Ji and Damdami Taksal openly campaigned for Congress in those elections ... so the Akali's of that time (who were not as corrupt as today's Badal Dal) can't be blamed for opposing those who campaigned for Congress in 1980. Longowal was called Sant Ji by the people (not by himself) for what he achieved for them and the simplicity of his life. By the time of 1984 however, the Sikh Panth was united that Anandpur Sahib resolution must be implemented and Longowal+Bhindrawale were two sides of the same coin (who had sincere respect for each other), with Sant Longowal who called Bhindrawale Ji "our stave to beat the government" representing the pragmatic moderate political discussion approach and Sant Bhindrawale (though he was dedicated to peace) representing the slightly more militant approach. The coin itself is one and will always remain one (despite different visions of how to get to where we as a Panth need to go). Both shades of opinion were 100% pro-Sikh. Even today, all angles of the Panth whether Canadian or Indian, whether sehajdhari or Amritdhari, whether pro-meat or anti-meat etc can contribute meaningfully to uplifting the Panth. The "stick and the carrot" as employed by Longowal+Sant Ji in tandem in 1984 is a valid political approach, as u have heard used by the Americans I'm sure. It's important to remember that Longowal and Tohra were told that they would get the chance to negotiate for a peaceful conclusion to the encirclement of Sri Harmandir Sahib by Brar's cowards ... so it wasn't a case of how youth born in the 1990's have been fed lies that Longowal + Tohra Sahib walked out as traitorous cowards. Anyone from south of Ludhiana knows that Longowal and Tohra (who also disagreed on strategy between themselves as well) were never for a second anti-Sikh sellouts. They were Sikh and true to the cause in the manner they saw best. They foresaw that a military attack on Harmandir Sahib and a subsequent Genocide of the Sikh Panth (as given in the taster of what Congress was capable of at the start of November 1984) would leave our Panth in a very weak position subsequently. We see that clearly today in terms of drugs, abortion clinics, derawadi, you name it. Each and every Sikh knows that after what GOI did to us in June 1984 we can never have any real connection with the terrorists from Delhi. However, at the same time we have to maintain a sense of reality. When forces one hundred times stronger numerically and weapons wise are being faced, with innumerable traitors doing their bit for the enemy, then we as a Panth need to take the cautious approach and build our strength from the foundations upwards (not from the roof downwards). The foundations include the defeat of alcohol in Punjab, the defeat of drugs, the defeat of biraderi, the defeat of infanticide and the defeat of illiteracy. Back in 1984 there were 500 million odd more Hindu's than Sikhs in absolute numbers. Today there are 1,000 million more Hindu's than Sikhs in absolute numbers and the USA backing India as an unbroken entity in which to trade (as a counterweight to China) ... then we need to get our foundations strong before vocalising what we ALL want in our hearts. The fundamental fact is that in 2013 the history of 1977-1997 conclusively proves that Longowal's vision of how to get the successful implementation of the Anandpur Sahib resolution was correct compared to the other approach advocated by Damdami Taksal. Not a single Sikh in 2013 can say in any way that we as a Panth were victorious in the period between 1977-1997. Indira Gandhi was politically defeated in 1977 and it was only her + Zail Sin cooking up the lie that all Sikhs were Khalistani terrorists that revived her political fortunes so she could attack Harmandir Sahib to grab the Hindutva votes.

Bro some important points that I wanted to correct on your post. 1. 50% of Guru Nanak Dev Ji's disciples were originally born to Muslim parents. When they became part of Guru Sahib's Sangat they ceased being Muslim and became Guru ke Sikh. This is a very important point to understand 2. Bhai Mardana was the first Sikh. He was not Muslim. Mughal writers started to claim he was Muslim in order to try and prevent other Muslims from becoming Sikh after Guru Arjan Dev Ji's shaheedi. Dhan Dhan Kabir Ji Maharaj were absolutely NOT Muslim either and they rejected and ridiculed Islam as you can read in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. It's important to remember that just because a person's parents are Muslim that does not make a son Muslim especially if the son is the legendary first Gurmukh or one of our most blessed Bhagats. Sikhs cannot and do not believe in pedophilia. Sikhi condemns pedophilia, slavery, rape of slavegirls and all types of immoral oppression that Muhammad + the Quran promote. PS: Good and innocent Muslims who do not hurt others but were just merely born into a religion/community should be treated with respect. Muslim terrorists, jihadists, people trying to convert non-Muslims and pedophiles deserve no respect.

Veerji it's kind of like a copy of Indira Gandhi's method of getting her own forces like Azhar Muhammad Alam's Black Cats to kill innocent Hindu's. And when people point out that Sant Ji was not a terrorist but Indira Gandhi was, the throwback reply is it's Hindophobia and that Sikhs won't be happy until ... There is no faith community in the World that has had 35 of its main holy places desecrated and yet still did not react negatively against innocent Hindu's or Muslims. If the boot was on the other foot I've no doubt the Sikh Panth would have been exterminated worse than Justice Khalra detailed. And obviously 25% of the Sikh population was killed in the Genocide of Sikhs in Pakistan in 1947 which even KP Gill could never get close to in his dreams.

Legal Singh Veerji i know you were saying this tongue in cheek but just in case some uninformed neutrals take your joke seriously, let's remind them that: Despite 1984, Sikhs have never attacked Mandirs or any innocent Hindu's despite being a majority in Punjab. In the area where Muslims did not attack Sikhs first (in 1947) ... Malerkotla ... that town still remains a Muslim majority town with not a single innocent Muslim hurt. Whilst Hindu's and Muslims prayed In England during the English Riots the Sikhs protected them. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14472484 Just because Sikhs oppose slavery+pedophilia like Prophet Muhammad's sex with a 9year old child called Aisha + his sale of innocent human beings into slavery and Muhammad ordering Muslims to freely rape slaves + other forms of Islamic Genocide against Sikhs ... no Sikh has anything against innocents of any background. The truth is that all the multiple Genocides against Sikhs prove that our enemies won't be happy until they think they have exterminated all Sikhs.

Absolutely awesome effort bro. If everyone had the dedication to Sikhi like u do then our Panth would be in a lot stronger position today. But I'm not saying u or the site is perfect! :biggrin2: By the way Veerji don't forget that contrary to the statues and certain pictures Baba Farid Ji kept kes (as it suits our enemies to hide or distort this fact). Hindutva even expects us to believe that the Hindu's revered figures were all clean shaven just becuase pictures and statues in the last couple of hundred of years seem to suggest so! LOL

All of u should be mega proud of yourselves (in a way without haumai and hankaar) as many people at your age in Punjab are doing drugs, have no consideration for what Sikhi stands for and are ruining their own lives as well as the future of the Sikh Panth. To my knowledge you guys+girls haven't killed any innocent people, you haven't aborted any innocent life on the basis of gender, you don't sell or take drugs and you don't drink so why not give yourselves a break and realise that you are champions and Sikhs. Guru Gobind Singh Ji had their entire family made shaheed but they still walked out clapping as the Sikh Panth can never lose and never be defeated if we are strong mentally within ourselves and united as one force. Next time you feel depressed, remember those that are much worse off than you and try to engage in some seva for them. Turn every negative emotion you feel into a positive action as a result of that ok! U guys+girls are the future of Sikhi and you can be legends for the Panth if you think positive with Chardi Kala. Remember how Bhai Sukha Singh was even daamadol before Sikhi entered his bloodstream properly and look at how he went on along with Bhai Mehtab Singh to teach the Muslim Massa Ranghar a lesson that Sikhs can be hunted down in the most cruel ways of Genocide by our enemies but we will never be defeated!!! PS: it takes bravery to even admit how you feel in front of others so things can only get better and stronger if you keep faith in Sikhi and staying in Chardi Kala

Well said Legal Singh Veerji. These Mirpuri's speak a dialect of Punjabi but they only call themselves Kashmiri as Mirpur falls within the state of Kashmir in modern day Pakistan as a result of Maharajah Ranjit Singh's rule over their ancestors originally and then Mirpur coming under the Dogra's rule of Kashmir. These Mirpuri Jatts were seen as janglee and uneducated by high society Muslims in Lahore but when these Jatt villages were flooded to make way for the Mangal Dam all these Mirpuri's suddenly made their way abroad. Even the castes these Mirpuri Muslims mainly belong to give them away as Punjabi's as they are mostly Jatt and also Rajput, Gujjar, Arains and Butts which are overwhelmingly Punjabi castes in Pakistan that are despised as low caste Hindu converts by the Qureshi and Mughal castes. The reason these Hindu converts to Islam look a bit lighter is that in their bloodlines you will find multiple rape victims from the Greek armies of Alexander the Great as well as all the Muslim soldiers from Arabia that their female ancestors were repeatedly raped by whilst they were still Hindu. But from the time of Aurangzeb the Jatts, Rajputs, Gujjars, Arains and Butts (Muslim Pandit Bhatts) were totally brutalised into timidly surrendering into Islam whereas the Sikh Panth bravely resisted Muslim oppression. Don't forget that one of the criminal masterminds behind Pakistan's creation, the Muslim Brahmin Muhammad Alama Iqbal, was one of these Mirpuri Punjabi's. Liaquat Ali Khan the Muslim Jatt who was the 1st Prime Minister of Pakistan also had a huge rule in helping send his tribe's clansmen from Mirpur out into the West in order to pimp, rape and groom the world into the hands of Muslim domination.

Politics Veerji. Had Longowal + Tohra also been killed then the weight of international pressure would have been on Indira Gandhi for killing democratically elected politicians who advocated Anandpur Sahib resolution. Also just to add that Longowal + Tohra dying at that time would not have achieved anything constructive. The massacre of innocent Sikhs at Sri Harmandir Sahib and the Genocide of an entire generation did not advance our Panth. Longowal and Tohra saw that a long way off and tried to ensure a peaceful resolution to what Indira Gandhi was engineering. But there was nothing they could do to stop her. They did not encourage her to do it and I'm sure of that Veerji.

L. Singh Ji thanks for all your informative posts on this thread. You can be a brilliant media contact in the West for Ensaaf organisation + other human rights charities if u have or can make any formal links with them to spread the word.

1. Veerji i totally disagree with u. Longowal and Tohra were 100% in Sikh camp and wanted Anandpur Sahib implementation. The Congress agent accusation labelled against Longowal and Bhindrawale is an insult to both Sants who sacrificed their lives for the Panth. 2. Longowal opposed Bhindrawale at a limited internal level within the Panth because Damdami Taksal and Sant Ji openly campaigned for Congress in 1980, however on a level of facing common enemy Indira Gandhi Sant Ji and Longowal were united for the Sikh Panth and Anandpur Sahib resolution in 1984. 3. Total nonsense. If you believe that u will believe anything. This is same reasoning why uneducated people say Sant Ji was Congress stooge. Indira Gandhi herself attacked Harmandir Sahib in order to get Hindutva vote and attack Sikh Panth. To accuse Longowal of this is ridiculous and only people born in 1990's have been fed these lies to discredit our entire Panth's historic leadership. 4. Galant Defender book (which i also mentioned above) is a great book for exposing the lies that Sant Ji was a terrorist BUT that does not mean that everything written about others like Longowal who were behind Anandpur Sahib resolution originally and who later realised the futility of open fight with enemies with 100-1000 times more soldiers+resources is correct. Longowal and Tohra knew full well that Indira Gandhi wanted to attack Harmandir Sahib so they tried to avoid that and even the Rajiv-Longowal accord was done for strategic reason to avoid a whole generation of Sikhs being killed off as Justice Khalra proved. I think we should respect all those who gave their life in service to the Panth rather than accuse them of being Congress stooges. Same accusations were made against Master Tara Singh despite the fact that in 1947 in Punjab Sikhs were only 13% minority. How many minorities get independence where there is 13% minority like African Americans in USA? The answer in 1947 and nowadays is hardly any. History is getting badly distorted with Nangs like Niddar even claiming that Hindu Mahants should have been back in control of Harmandir Sahib in 1920 + the Akali's who liberated our Gurdwara's are instead labelled as biggest enemies of our Panth. Now people who dedicated their life to Anandpur Sahib resolution are wrongly labelled as traitors of Sikh Panth. People of Fatehgarh Sahib District know Tohra was no sellout + same with all Anandpur Sahib resolution supporters from 1970's nobody will accuse Longowal Sahib of what u did. Can i ask how old u are Veerji as my guess is u were born in 1990's + u got these idea's from books maybe rather than what people on the ground know. Not a personal insult just my guess given your opinions? Also i'm guessing u are not from Fatehgarh Sahib district either?

Sant Ji and Damdami Taksal openly supported Congress in the 1980 elections but they realised after that Indira Gandhi and Zail Sin were simply using Damdami Taksal to oppose Sant Longowal and the Akali's agenda of Anandpur Sahib resolution. So the more Indira Gandhi's anti-Sikh agenda became obvious the more Sant Ji started to oppose Congress. Until at the end Congress had Sant Ji as public enemy number 1. Sant Ji never once asked for Khalistan as he realised painting Sikhs as anti-India was a Congress ploy to sabotage the Anandpur Sahib resolution. Now most Indian intellectuals are openly admitting Sant Ji was a galant defender of human rights for all people including Hindu's as the truth is blatantly out now that ALL terrorism was done by the GOI and Indira Gandhi's Black Cats led by Azhar Muhammad Alam. It's funny how anyone who cared about the Panth from Sant Ji to Sant Longowal was always labelled a Congress stooge even when they gave their lives for the Panth.

Thanks for clarifying the way u meant it Veerji. I agree with the point ur making about spiritual people only rejecting the parts they don't like (even tho the truth is ALL Satgur Prasad)

It wouldn't surprise me if some Qazi thought it would get them good publicity as so-called "victims" of a bomb attack for once (rather than the other way round).

Totally agree with u bro and everyone sehajdhari, kesdhari and Amritdhari all got their part to play for the Panth so that we don't have divides between us. Remember Bhai Rajoana Ji and Shaheed Bhai Satwant Singh Ji were all sehajdhari like you before they sacrificed their own lives for the sake of humanity (and the Panth)

I hear u bro + thanks for clarifying exactly what u meant. Only thing i wanna disagree above is that we don't need to be gangsters to look after ourself. as long as we are tyaar bar tyaar and each and every Sikh is Shastardhari and physically fit, we are a Qaum that nobody can dominate so long as we have 100% Unity and readiness to fight for the Qaum's protection within us. Dealing drugs excludes people from membership of the Panth. Especially when they deal to our own community. Any group that is against Nazi's or drug-dealing Muslim groomers i'm all good with ... regardless of how religious or not they might be.

ggg the way u talkin it seems like ur proud of gangsters? Instead of respecting gangsters wudn't it b better to respect Khalsa Panth + human rights activists, lawyers, doctors etc?

I think Baba Hari Singh Randhawa mentioned it at the Damdama Taksal Baba Sri Chand smagam this but the videos below might be too short to feature but i'm trying to find them

Only our positive actions will get us out of this dunia. Baba Farid Ji, Bhagat Namdev Ji, Bhagat Kabir Ji and Bhagat Ravidas as main examples all rejected Islam+Hinduism, so Veerji not to argue with u but i think it's wrong if we label mukht Bhagats as Hindu's+Muslims when they all exposed the falsehood of Hinduism+Islam. But yeah no doubt there are different routes to God + we don't knock alternative routes taken by true seekers whatever their faith or none (so long as they are sincere in terms of not supporting slavery, pedophilia, caste abuse, sati etc). Not to argue with u Veerji but thats the same excuse all the pakhandi baba's who never get married use ... when Guru Sahib explained that spirituality lies within gristh jeevan rather than shunning marriage like Hindu sadhs. These pakhandi babe don't really need marriage with the amount of devdasi's they use + abuse on the regular.

Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj Guru ka Sikh Bhai Syed Singh joined the Khalsa Panth thanks to Dasme Patshah and fought for justice ... just like his namesake Bhai Syed (Prithipal) Singh from Mirpur 200 plus years later in the last century

13Mirch Veerji i think what Proactive Veerji was talking about specifically (in this thread) was the pro-Mahant (fake) Nihangs in 1920's who wanted to restore the Hindu Mahants control over Harmandir Sahib and other Gurdwara's newly liberated by the Sikh Panth. Because those were not real Nihangs but Nangs who wanted Hindu control over Harmandir Sahib just like Santa Sin and Ajit Sin wanted Indira's rule over our Panth's Akal Takht.

Let the dude leave Sikhi bro if he wants to. After all if he tries to leave Islam the punishment for doing that is death (for apostacy). But provide this man the info he needs to make an informed judgement and make sure like Proactive Veerji said that he doesn't commit child abuse by forcing his children to convert and forcing them to be circumcised against their will because slaveowners like Abraham and Muhammad believed in the pagan belief that circumcised penises enhance sexual pleasure (as God apparently wants all men to be circumcised, otherwise we all will end up in Hell if we don't follow these words claimed to be from God). Sikhi believes in the equality of all. Islam, The Quran and Prophet Muhammad repeatedly state that slaves are inferior to their lighter-skinned Arab masters. Sikhi believes that only our actions count for what our lives amount to. Islam believes that so long as you believe in Prophet Muhammad + all his actions it's a free ticket to paradise and the reward of 72 light-skinned, big bosomed virgin sex slaves (as well as youths of perpetual freshness as a bonus). Guru Nanak at the age of 54 worked tirelessly to feed the poor and spread Gurmat like Naam Japo ... Kirat Karo ... Vand Shako Prophet Muhammad at the age of 54 was busy with consummating his marriage to a 9year old child Aisha and selling human beings for financial profit as well as receiving messages from Allah that Muslims are allowed to rape their slavegirls as stated in the Quran. If he still feels Islam is for him then let him believe in Prophet Muhammad. Focus on protecting his kids from being dragged into the cult too and suffering inhumane torture and mutilation by having circumcision forced upon them.

Mr K.Phull Ji, the answer to your belief that Sikhi is just the same as any old religion out there is pretty simple. Sikhi is the ONLY faith in which only actions count in front of God. Sikhi is the ONLY faith in which actions count for more than words or the so-called faith a child has been raised in or even sexuality/race/gender/caste. For example a good homosexual doctor saving lives is better than people like KP Gill. Jews believe that only the chosen people (males among whom must be circumcised) were granted Israel + will get to Heaven. Christians believe that non-Christians and those who don't believe in the virgin birth of Jesus will end up in Hell. Muslims believe in a 54 year old man who had sexual intercourse with a 9year old child Aisha and that those who don't believe this pedophile was the best example to humanity for all time will end up burning in Hell forever + ever. Hindu's believe that each individual is put in a caste or social status appropriate to their previous sins + will remain so. The message of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji opposes caste, opposes mistreatment of the poor+weak and women, states that all humanity is equal, states that God's doors are open to all (based upon their actions as opposed to their stated faiths) and does not threaten non-adherents with the torture of flames in Hell or being born a Dalit likes Hindu's believe. I actually agree with you that homosexuals are in no way comparable to pedophiles such as Prophets with many followers. So why exactly do you feel that Christianity, Judaism, Islam + Hinduism are the same as Sikhi and which religion do u believe?

Sure they were "born" into the same community as you and me Jonny Veerji but they are not Sikhs and the type of monster that kills 83 innocent human beings (regardless of if they were Sikh, Hindu or Muslim) is a sub-human degenerate of the lowest order. There's no such as a born Sikh and we need to emphasise that within the Panth. People have to live Sikhi by living their life truthfully according to the inherent insaaniat within it but instead this rakshas has taken the life of innocents so cruelly away. It's sad that he has to be kept alive to implicate bigger sharks but it's a necassary evil to swallow for the greater good.

It's all good bro. I could have been born into an Arain family in Pakistan and I could have been a Muslim on this forum today as a result of that. Likewise you could have been born in a Sikh family holding totally different beliefs than those you currently do. So blind hatred for any individual simply because they are Hindu, Muslim, Christian or Sikh etc is utterly wrong and is easy to control if we remember that all innocent babies on the planet are born with no language and no religion. Those come afterwards. But I truthfully tell you from the bottom of my heart that I do strongly believe that the ethos of Sikhi is about the welfare of ALL humanity, praying to God, sharing with those less fortunate and working hard to help others. But studying Islam to the depth I have (as an admirer of how the ideology was previously so successful in its mission to dominate the world) I honestly did not see the equal welfare of all in Islam - only within the Ummah perhaps. I really genuinely hope that by 2050 more people with Muslim parents see that + walk away in moral disgust at that. But in conclusion - Salaam! :biggrin2: