harj1ts1ngh

Dear SikhSangat Admin and Mods. Why is my id being killed off? I have never hurt anyone here! You guys must heard of internet broadband wi-fi which enables different members of one household to use the internet from a unique IP address? So why are going to kill off my id and access to the forum when I was never on quality control, never in trouble and never had any arguments with anybody? I mean fair enough you can ban my brothers UKLondonSikh and isingh1699 because they dared to argue with GPS about Kartar Singh Jhabbar and wanted to get the Focus Punjab PURE fundraising drive launched but please tell me what I have done to deserve getting banned or having my id deleted?

These Congress mouthpieces (newspapers) would say that. These were clearly Congress employed goonda's whipped up by local Congress leaders. No Harijans or Balmiki attacked Sikhs. Our Gurdwara Sis Ganj Sahib owes it very existence to Khalsa Ji Bhai Jiwan Singh Ji who was spat upon by Hindu's and Muslims for being a Bihari sweeper but whom Guru Sahib accepted as their beloved beta. Lower local level Congress bureacrats (not Dr Manmohan Singh) are scared of Balmiki's uniting with Sikhs hence they employ divide and rule strategies to kill two birds with one stone. Attacking Sikhs on the one hand and polarising Balmiki's against Sikhs by false reporting. Veerji neither Harjians or Balmiki's or even Hindu's had nothing to do with it. These were Congress supporting criminal goonda's plain and simple and I have that as first hand information from ex-Tilak Vahar residents. Veerji the more we repeat the Ghulam mantra, the more our community's Chardi Kala mindset is being diluted. A Sher may be hunted in the jungle by enemies but it never forgets that its free and we Sikhs fear nobody. So long as we are tyaar bar tyaar wherever we are in the World and use all attacks on us to motivate us to do better seva for the Panth they can never stop us! Every school and every hospital we open, every abortion clinic we shut, every zaathiwaad Gurdware that we unite, every drug rehabiliation clinic we open and every drug dealing chemist whose activities we stop and the maximum number of non-Sikhs who we introduce to Sikhi (regardless of it they become Amritdhari or Sehajdhari) >that is our best response for Sarbat Da Bhala to such vile provocation from the evil minority that despise and hate us.

True Veerji that old Brahmins started it but we need to think today on how to encourage 5 crore Hindu Brahmins into Sikhi. Even Banda Singh Bahadur Ji had Bhardwaj ancestry. Sikh families that I know of who were previously Hindu Brahmins in the 20th century i know are made uncomfortable by the continual bahmanwaad talk. Agreed Veerji Absolutely right Veerji

Veerji the descendants of Kirpa Singh Ji were all Sikhs. These new so-called Hindu vansh are about as false as the fake Pakistani's who claim to be Bhai Mardana's descendents (when it is historic fact that Bhai Mardana's sons were devout Gursikhs). This has become a big business for non-Sikhs and Bedi's who are busy exploiting sharda of gullible Sikhs. I think the latest fraudulent non-Sikh descendents of famous Gursikhs are these Mehra crooks (who happen to be Hindu in 2013) in contrast to their supposed ancestor who was a brave Guru ka Sikh.

Khalsa Ji i think the reason why these Hindu Punjabi, Balmiki, Pandit and Bania that hate on us do so is because we don't bother to explain to others that Bhai Jiwan Singh Ji (of Gurdwara Sis Ganj Sahib Ji) was originally from a Bihari sweeper family. Guru Sahib said Rangrete Guru ke bete but we choose to ignore that on the whole. The Hindu Punjabi's ancestors all attended Gurdwara's prior to the 1940's but then we chose to kick them out of the Panth by defining them as non-Sikhs. The rest, as they say, is history as to the results of defining them non-Sikhs was seen in 1966 and afterwards. We don't bother telling Brahmins about the bravery and ancestry of Gursikhs like Bhai Mati Das and Bhai Sati Das but we are quick to shove the term brahminwaad down their throats. Similarly, we forget that Gurdwara Rakab Ganj Sahib is a testimony to the bravery of a Bania who sacrificed his everything for Guru Sahib and the Sikh Panth. Until we ourselves, eliminate biraderi from within our ranks and explain our faith to outsiders we can expect further hatred as a minority because we believe in Truth. I really agree with you SikhKosh Veer but the armed struggle alone did not work between 1984-1995 so this time we need to fight smarter and eliminate internal divisions within the Panth and illiteracy as a pre-cursor to overthrowing the corrupt Delhi bureaucrats. Mehtab Singh Veerji i am so proud of you from the bottom of my heart. If our enemies taunt us, we shouldn't respond with our own taunts back. We are above their thinking. We still will pray for the long life of any innocent Muslim or Hindu baby born in Delhi and elsewhere. But we do need to up our efforts. The best revenge and biggest slap to the small minority within India who hate us is to systematically work step by step so that Khalsa Raj will rule with justice, equality and without corruption in the future from Delhi and Amritsar and our Panth's non-Punjab Takhts. Khalsa Raj must be over all of India. The way to achieve that is to clean up our own community in terms of drugs, sharaab, biraderi, female abortion, cancer and illiteracy. As well as doing as much seva as we can for innocent non-Sikhs in India who do not oppress us but are similarly oppressed by the Delhi bureacrats who organised this attack today. By not explaining our faith to others and not accepting them as Sikhs in sehajdhari form then we weaken our long term objectives to make our enemies a powerless minority within India. This is something we can achieve. Today's attack was organised by local Congress puppets in order to elicit pro-Khalistan slogans from Sikhs so that once again in next year's general election in India they can bring out the lie that Congress is the party that protects the nation from so-called Sikh terrorists, despite the fact that Sikhs can never be terrorists and Congress GOI of 1984-1995 proved itself to be the biggest terrorist force India has ever seen. Complaining overseas that we are slaves in India will never work when everyone can see that the Prime Minister is a Sikh and that the head of the Indian Army is a Sikh and that Sikhs are richer than Hindu's and Muslims as a community. Proving that there is endemic human rights discrimination against Sikhs is much more easier to prove especially given the central GOI Genocide of Sikhs that Congress did so brutally between 1984-1995 particularly. Every school and every hospital we open, every abortion clinic we shut, every zaathiwaad Gurdware that we unite, every drug rehabiliation clinic we open and every drug dealing chemist whose activities we stop and the maximum number of non-Sikhs who we introduce to Sikhi (regardless of it they become Amritdhari or Sehajdhari) >that is our best response for Sarbat Da Bhala to such vile provocation from the evil minority that despise and hate us.

Exactly! Brilliant post Proactive Veer! I partly agree with you Mehtab Singh Veer and I partly disagree. I agree that if we are going to mention the community of Chandu, Gangu and Indira then we need to always mention the ancestry from which Bhai Mati Das Ji and Bhai Sati Das Ji hailed from to counteract that. Overall, we need to stop using the word brahminwaad made famous by Lord Buddha and replace it with "zaathiwaad" as over-use of the word brahminwaad (brahmanism) is acting as a barrier stopping many good people from the same community as you originally were from becoming new fellow casteless members of the Sikh Panth. Not a single Gursikh has any caste identity other than that of Khalsa but as you correctly point out it is worth remembering the diverse ancestries of all those who bravely came forward into the Sikh Panth. For example, many Sikhs are unaware that Maharaja Ranjit Singh was from the Sansi adivasi tribal community and Shaheed Udham Singh was from a Kamboh background. A lot of the denial of the backgrounds of Bhai Jiwan Singh Ji and Bhai Sangat Singh Ji is done by Balmiki and Dera Ballan affiliated Mandirs who want to monopolise offerings from Sangat of their own backgrounds and want that nobody from their background become casteless Sikhs free from the falsehood of caste (when in Hinduism they can keep caste purity as Adharmi and Balmiki and their regular paychecks from Congress puppet masters). The background of Brar, KP Gill, (Radha Swami) Dhillon, (Sirsa) Sidhu, Sajjan Kumar & Liaquat Ali Khan as proud Jatts is famous.

Everyone is hurting for you sister. Reading what you wrote hurt each and every one of us. Don't rely on any Sant. It's possible that through this suffering you have earned more kamaai than many so-called pakhandi babe. The suffering that you are going through ensures that you will be mukht from the cycle and united with God. Please feel free to PM if anything but anything we can do. I'm so sorry is all I can say and everyone is doing Ardas for you.

Thanks for the reminder to Sangat Chatanga Veer. The 1947 Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs in which 25% of our people were killed should never be forgotten. America was unhappy about 9/11 but imagine if the Muslims killed 80 million Americans today, only then would that give a sense of the brutal and unimaginable level of Genocide the Punjabi Muslims inflicted upon Sikhs in 1947. VanHel Singh Veer, the Sikhs were a one third minority in Majha, Malwa and Doaba. The Muslims were just as populous in these areas and had aims to include all of Punjab within Pakistan. When Muslims started to try ethnically cleanse Sikhs out of Amritsar (where there were more Muslims than Sikhs) only then did Sikhs start to defend themselves. In a war, there are innocent casualties on all sides but in the 1947 Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs one in four of our people in Pakistan were killed. One in twenty Muslims in east Punjab lost their lives, of whom the majority were rich so-called upper-caste Muslim Zamindar jihadi's who had attempted to lead the ethnic cleansing of Sikhs out of Indian Punjab. That is not to deny the suffering of around one in forty Punjabi Muslims who perhaps were not linked to the madness (but who had nevertheless voted for the inclusion of all Punjab under Muslim rule). Quite clearly, Sikhs suffered more than ten times as much pro-rata casualties as the Muslims. As we see in the 2nd World War, innocent Germans also died but the 25% of Sikh population that was killed in Pakistan is one of the worst holocausts in World History. The equivalent of if 80 million Americans were killed by Muslims today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jlq2JgdUaHU The way we should commemorate the 1947 Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs is by increasing our own efforts towards the Sikh Panth's modern Dharam Yudh against drugs, sharaab, biraderi, abortion of females, cancer and illiteracy.

Neo Veer I believe we should greet them and wish them well just as Jagmeet Singh MPP has done. But we shouldn't forget that this festival was invented by a slaveowner and pedophile who thought he would adapt the pagan bearking fast festival and it actually results in extreme cruelty and death of millions of defenseless animals. Jhatka is a totally different method which seeks to minimise the suffering, instead of prolonging it via Halal slaughter. It's an ancient blood sacrifice to send blood to a pagan deity. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoUOwHxN1LA

Obviously Veer, Jagmeet Singh Ji and all politicians have to cater to all sections of the community whether Hindu, Muslim or Christian. Indeed, we wish all Muslims well for Eid and no harm at all in wishing them a happy Eid Mubarak Celebration. But we shouldn't forget that Eid results in the extremely cruel slaughter by bleeding to death of millions of innocent animals. Just like Christmas Day is an unnecassary holocaust day for turkeys. There is only one Gurmat and Truth is One. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVGDryxMlHs

Well pointed out Singh Ji. Mata Jito Ji was also called as (Mata) "Sundari" (by Mata Gujri Ji) whilst Mata Sahib Kaur assisted with the patase for Amrit for our Panj Piare

only5 Veer slight typo, i think you meant to write above the age of "50". As Muhammad was 51 when he did the transaction with Abu Bakr for the child marriage. But being the mercy to mankind that he was, he patiently waited until he was 54 years old before having sex with 9 year old little child Aisha. Neo Veer you're correct that Gurmat is infinite and cannot be confined

It's not just that Veer. The missionaries totally deny the previous lives of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, Guru Nanak Dev Ji and Guru Ram Das Ji as detailed in Sri Dasam Granth. To give you an idea of what these missionaries like Ghagga and Dhunda think, this is what the missionares are handing out in their leaflets at the Singh Sabha Gurdwara's in Alberta and probably other provinces and Dashmesh Darbar Gurdwara's in North America and also Singh Sabha Gurdwara's in England probably ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ THE BEDI AND THE SODHI DYNASTIES: The Bachittar Naatak describes the History of the Bedi and the Sodhi dynasties as follows. Lord Ram Chander Ji had two sons - Luv, and Kush. Kaal Rai, a descendent of Luv, and Kaal Kate, a descendent of Kush developed some uneasy disagreement. Kaal Kate defeated Kaal Rai who fled to the State of Sanaudh where he married the daughter of the State ruler. A son was born to Kaal Rai who was named Sodhi. That is how, the Sodhi dynasty started. After some time, the Sodhis, who were the descendents of Luv, attacked the state of Kaal Kate, and defeated the Kushis who fled to Benaras. The Kushis studied Vedas for a number of years at Benaras, and came to be called as Vedis or Bedis. After sometime, the Sodhis invited the Bedis back to their State. The Bedis narrated the Vedas to the Sodhi ruler - first the three Vedas, Yajur, Rig, and the Saam - and then the fourth, Atherban. The reigning Sodhi was very happy to listen to the Vedas because all his sins were washed away by listening. He was so happy that he left the throne, gave it to the Bedis, and banished the city to go to some forest to lead the life of a hermit. The Bedis were very happy to get the power, and they promised that when he (we could not understand which one of the Bedis) would be born as Guru Nanak in Kal Yug, he would also give the Guruship to the Sodhis. And just as he was given the power after listening to the fourth Veda after the first three, he too would give the Guruship to the Sodhis, after three gurus, starting with the fourth. (What a ridiculous story!) 2/28 Kaal Kate bhayo bali apara. Kaal Rai jin nagar nikara. Bhaaj Sanaudh des te gaye. Tahi bhoop ja biahat bhaye. 2/29 Tih te pootter bhayo jo dhama. Sodhi Rai dhara tih nama. Bans Sanaudh ta din te theeya. Param Pavitter purakh ju keeya. (God Himself started the Sanaudh Dynasty) 3/32 Luvi serb jeete Kushi serb haare. ...... (The Kushis fled to Benaras) Chatur Bed pathiyang keeyo Kashi basang. Ghanne barakh keene taha hi nivasang. After sometime, the Sodhis invited the Bedis back. The latter narrated the Vedas to the Sodhis. 4/4. Atther bed pathiyang. Sunne paap nathiyang. Raha reejh Raja. Deeya serb saaja 4/5. Layo ban basang. Maha paap nasang. Rikhing bhes keeyang. Tisse raj deeyang 4/7. Bedi bhayo persann raj keh payekai. Dait bhayo berdaan hiye hulsayekai Jab Nanak Kal mein hum aan kahaye hai. Ho jagatpooj ker tohi perm pud paye hein 4/9 Tritiye Bed sunbe tum kiya. Chatur Bed sun bhoo ko diya. Teen janam humhoon jab dher hai. Chauthe janam guru tohi ker hai. This tale has so many weak, and ridiculous points that it is a big disrespect to the Great Tenth Master if it is attributed to Him as His writing. It will require a large space to discuss all of them. Only a few important points are presented below for the consideration of the readers. What was so special about Sodhi Rai that Waheguru, Himself, started his dynasty? (See couplet 2/29 above). Who started all other dynasties? Because the Tenth Master was a Sodhi, the author some how tried to relate Him to Shri Ram Chander Ji so as to elevate the importance of the Sodhis. He also tried to relate Bedis to Shri Ram Chander for the same reason. To do so, he had to concoct a very flimsy story. Obviously, he did not realize that the Bedis and the Sodhis are respected not because they are the descendents of Kush and Luv - the sons of Shri Ram Chander - but because the First Guru was a Bedi and the last seven Gurus were all Sodhis. The Tenth Master strongly disapproved the use of castes and subcastes with the names because that aroused the sense of superiority among some people. That is why He made it mandatory for all Sikhs to use the word “Singh” as their last name. So, why would He describe the imaginary history of the Bedi and the Sodhi Dynasties violating His own principles? No other Guru ever mentioned their castes or subcastes. Guru Nanak was revered by all the people who came in His contact, not because He was a Bedi, but because He treated their misery, and showered them with love. The same Naatak describes the long and hard worship of God by the Tenth Master in His previous incarnation, and Waheguru sent Him to the Earth especially to spread His (God’s) Word. So, if the Sodhis were not promised Guruship, would not Gobind Rai be a Guru? Or, if Gobind Rai were to become Guru simply because of his birth in a Sodhi family as promised by the Bedis, why did he need to worship God? Guru Granth Sahib does not accept for a second that sins are eradicated by listening to the Vedas. On the contrary, the Gurbani maintains that the Vedas only classify what deeds are sinful and which are virtuous. In fact, people get more engrossed in Maya by following the Vedas. Consider the following sacred Shabads in this regard: Sagli rain sovat gal fahi dinus janjaal gawaiya. ....... Saster Bed trai goon hai maya andhlau dhand kamayee. (Bharau M:1) Bed baani jag vertada trai goon kerai vichar. Bin Naave jam dand sahhe mer janme vaaro vaar. Satgur bhete mukat hoye paaye mokh duar. (Malaar M:3 Ashatpadi) Bed baad sabh aakh wakhane. Na unter bheeje na Shabad pachhane. Punn paap sabh Bed drirhaya Gurmukh Amrit peeje hey. (Maaru Solhe M:3) Bed Puraan sabh dekhe joye. Oohan tao jayeay jau eehan na hoye. (Basant Rama Nand Ji) As is clear from the above sacred Shabads, let alone listening to the Vedas, even acting on them does not rid one of his sins. But let us suppose for a second, it does. Then the question arises: listening to which of the Vedas dispelled the sins of the Sodhi Ruler? Was it only the last Ved - Atherban, or were it all the four Vedas? If only the last Ved was capable of dispelling the sins, then there was no need to listen to the other three. And if it was all the four Vedas, then what sense does it make that the Bedis read the first three Vedas first, and then the fourth, so Guru Nanak would follow the same logic, and would give the Guruship to the Sodhis starting with the Fourth Guru? When four books are to be read - one at a time - what other way is there to read them? Why did the author write three and then the fourth? Why not in turn? Or, why not one and three, or two and two? This logic of three and then the fourth has absolutely no rationale. What sins had the Sodhi Ruler committed which were eradicated? Even if he had committed some, was it natural for him to abdicate his rule? Was not it more natural for him to reward the Bedis in some other form? At that time, what was so great about the Bedis that one of them ( and we do not know which one) knew that he would be born as Guru Nanak hundreds of thousands of years later? According to the Naatak, the Tenth Master had to really work very hard for a long time to please God; what had a Bedi done, other than reading the Vedas, that he qualified to be born as the Greatest Guru - Guru Nanak? If we are correct, only the Brahmans had the right to study Vedas. The Kushis were Khattris; so how did they earn the right to study Vedas? Also, the academics who are knowledgeable about one Ved are called Bedis, those who have the knowledge of two Vedas, are called Dubedis (or Dubes), having the knowledge of three Vedas are called Trivedis (or Tewaris), and those who know all the four Vedas, are called Chaturvedis (or Chaubes), and the last three are all Brahmans. Since, the Kushis had the knowledge of all the four Vedas, they should have been called Chaturvedis, and not just Bedis. Why is it that they were called only Bedis? According to the Hindu granths, the ages of various Yugas are roughly as follows: Satyug = 1728000 years. Treta = 1296000 years. Duwaper = 864000 years. Kalyug = 432000 years. The story under discussion took place in Treta yug. Why did it take hundreds of thousands of years for the Bedi to be born as Guru Nanak and to return the favour of the Sodhis? Even if this fairy tale is true, (and it has absolutely no ground to be true) why did the Sodhis have to wait that long? What good is a promise which is not delivered for millions of years? According to the most reliable scientific estimates, the first human appeared on the Earth less than 200000 years ago. (Most estimates put the age at 100000 years). And according to the World Book Encyclopedia (1999) edition, the first Ved - Rig Ved - is less than 4000 years old, and the Atherban Ved is less than 3000 years old. So, how could the Bedis have narrated the Vedas millions of years ago? If it is believed that the Sodhis got Guruship because of that promise, what had the Trehans (Guru Angad’s subcaste) and the Bhallas (Guru Amar Das’ subcaste) done to earn Guruship? There is absolutely no mention in the Naatak of any promise made to the Trehans, and the Bhallas by the Bedi ruler that they would be given the Guruship. Why could not the Guruship atay with the Bedis for at least three generations? Obviously, the Guruship was awarded for high spiritual and moral qualities. We believe that the real author of the Naatak either could not concoct any story to cover this gap, or being an ordinary human being, completely forgot about this aspect. The Naatak writes about the transfer of Guruship to Guru Ram Daas Ji as follows: 5/8 Jab verdaan sama vahu aawa. Ram Das tab Guru kahaawa. Tih berdaan puratan diya. Amar Das Surpur mag liya Again, if the Guruship was to be awarded to Bhai Jetha ji (Guru Ram Das JI) based on the promise, why did He have to work so hard to serve Guru Amar Das Ji? Also, Guru Amar Das Ji was under no obligation to transfer Guruship to Bhai Jetha Ji because He had not made any such promise. History bears testimony to the fact that Bhai Jetha Ji was a very noble soul who always respected the will of the Guru. By the time Guruship was to be passed on to some deserving candidate, Bhai Jetha Ji had completely overcome his ego, and other five natural forces - lust, rage, greed, attachment, and vanity. He was the most deserving candidate for Guruship. Also, if Bhai Jetha Ji did get Guruship because of the Promise, there must be thousands of Sodhis at that time, what did the other Sodhis get? Was the Promise specically made for Bhai Jetha Ji? In couplet 2/28 given earlier, the author writes that Waheguru Himself started Sanaudh Dynasty. But he forgot, the Dynasty, he is describing was Sodhi after the name of the son of Kaal Kat, and not Sanaudh. When people write fiction, they tend to forget things. That is what has happened here too. Whatever was written by any of the Gurus, was in the interest of the masses so t they may improve their lives by following the teachings of the Gurus. Even if the story of the two Dynasties is true, what purpose does it serve to improve the lives of people? The above discussion proves unequivocally, that this whole tale is imaginary and baseless. If we remove the curtain of blind faith from our eyes, it will become absolutely clear that this fairy tale-like story of the two Dynasties cannot be the creation of the ninth successor ( the Tenth Master) to the World Guru - Guru Nanak. It is possible that some people may try to twist the facts to prove it to be the writing of the Tenth Master, but this whole composition is so opposed to the Principles of Gurbani, and is also so weak from scientific point of view that it is impossible to have been written by the Tenth Master.

Brilliant anecdote Mehtab Singh Ji. In terms of if we are up for it as a Qaum overall. The answer is clearly NO whilst we have our vakhre Gurdware, abortion clinics doing a roaring trade, Badal running the education system so badly that many of our youth coming up are still illiterate and drugs and alcohol consumption so big in Punjab. We can only encourage more to turn towards Sikhi if our Qaum cleans up its act on a collective basis and we all play our part in this modern Dharam Yudh with Unity. Once we cover the basics and live good lives according to Gurmat ourselves then others will turn to Sikhi more when they see the love and nimrata of true Gursikhs. Mehtab Veer you hit the nail on the head with this too. If we can appreciate that different sampardas and groups within the Panth have the same goal but different viewpoints on how to get there, then that will kill half the arguments that lead to factionalism within the Panth. I think all of us on this thread are in unity overall.

Of course Veerji. And I think you know that I stand closer to SikhKosh Veer overall when it comes to exposing the truth about non-Sikh ideologies which harm weak and innocent victims and certainly I will never ever believe that slaveowners and pedophiles can gain entry into GianKhand. That is too sickening and frightening to imagine. But when it comes to Hindu's in particular, I agree with Bijla Singh and yourself that maybe we need to step off the gas a bit in criticism if potential new Sikhs are lost. You are not perfect but you are a lot better than me and a part of that is because you are from the original background you were prior to 2003 and becoming part of the Khalsa Panth. The more you explain what pulled you towards Sikhi the better for us others to understand how to explain Sikhi to non-Sikhs with humility/nimrata