Mahakaal96

In puratan Shaster Vidya Riflemanship falls under the category of yantramukta weapons... these are considered the highest form of weapons & is the highest form of shaster Vidya. Unarmed combat & wrestling is the 5th & lowest form of Shaster Vidya... it is to be avoided & only used as a last resort but it is still important to learn to be a complete warrior. Learning these vidyas from a bhagat tappasvi & dharmi gurdev is completely different to learning them from commanders in a robotic adharmic army. As old Singhs say... putting weapons in the hand of a soldier is nothing more then creating a killer... but putting weapons & shaster Vidya in the hands of Bhagats & tappasvis is creating & real yodha & dharam purush

Gatka is played by circus performers & showmen. Real Singhs & Shasterdhari yodeh practice Shaster Vidya & gain mastery over the 5 types of weapons. Real Singhs also study raj neeti & yudh neeti (there's a specific Granth that covers this)

I personally think mahraj chose not to write about Mata fleeing in Chandi Di Vaar for a few reasons. Chandi Di Vaar is known as shaheeda Di Bani as it is the Bani that Singhs recited the most before going into battle. Singhs who have Chandi Di Vaar memorised can recite it in about 8-10 mins... so the summarised theory has some credibility. Also, Chandi Di Vaar was composed for the purspose of inciting Bir Ras (warrior spirit) inside the reader.... it's not very warrior spirit inciting if you are reading above someone fleeing the battlefield because of becoming exhausted. Sri Suraj Prakash was written as a Granth which gave the Panth our historical framework & timeline.

I've only come across Dusht Daman history in Sri Suraj Prakash & from around Hazur Sahib. I've got Baba Santa Singhs jis katha on cd & agree that it is definitely worth listening to... it's really really good.

As I tried to explain to you earlier the account of war written in Dasam Granth are summarised accounts... mahraj themselves says as much. Read or listen to Suraj Prakash rut 3 adhyai 35.... rakatbheej is mentioned along with the other demons. It clearly says Mata fled the battlefield after not being able to kill the re-manifested forms of the 9 crore rakatbheejs that she had already killed. If my recollection of events about which Yug this all took place in is not correct or doesn't not add up that does not mean everything else presented is incorrect... everything I have said is based on Sri Suraj Prakash Granth... which is an extension of the summarised accounts given in Sri Dasam Granth. I'm not arguing against Bani but rather wasting my time arguing with someone who has minimal knowledge on this subject but is trying to pass themselves off as someone who knows it all. Your arguing with me about Dusht Daman without even reading Suraj Prakash Granth!!

Suraj Prakash doesn't mention rakatbheej??... That's a complete lie!!! Obvious you have no idea what you are talking about....you've already been exposed as someone who said mahraj wouldn't leave out important things in Gurbani but then accept Sant Jis account of Dusht Daman even though mahraj doesn't mention Dush Daman in Gurbani. You then accused me of relying on a Granth that was nothing more then a Granth that was written in 19th century..... but like a typical fanboy you without any hesitation beilieved Sant Jis video about Dusht Daman even though what Sant Ji was saying unknown to you was based on Sri Suraj Prakash Granth...! You keep harking on about rakatbheej but are oblivious to the fact that at 1 point Mata Durga Killed 9 crore rakatbheejs.... who then manifested themselves at an either greater number..... who were then killed by 96 crore Singhs led by Rishi Dusht Daman. So I suggest you go do some more reading...

No ones saying it started in treta & finished in satyug (although this is possible as a mahajug includes the 4 yug cycle completing & restarting 9 times continuously). It is possible the battle started at some time in Satyug.. went on for thousands of years & finished in Tretayug... but Devi Devte timescales are not the same as Earth realm timescale. Read chandi Di vaar... the demon is swarnatbheej. So you have no problem in accepting history of Dusht Daman even though mahraj doesn't mention Dusht Daman in Dasam Granth... but you believe the history because Sant Ji talks about it..... he talks about it based on Sri Suraj Prakash Granth.... the same Granth that says Mata Durga fled the battlefield from Rakatbheej & sought help of Rishi Samund who in turn sent Rishi Dusht Daman & 96 crore Singhs to fight against the demons (hence why Chandi Di vaar mentions an army of nihangs). Mata also fought alongside the 96 crore Singhs & then killed the demons she was unable to kill earlier. Yes my source is nothing more than a Granth written in the 19th century as you said, but it's the same Granth Sant Ji is basing his katha on in that video you posted above. The history of 'Dusht Daman' is in Sri Suraj Prakash Granth'.

There's no difference in perception... only for you there is because you don't know the complete history..... Sant Ji & some of us do. Before appearing on hemkunt Rishi Dusht Daman was a king who's kingdom was where Hazur Sahib is now. Dusht Daman gave up his kingdom & began to do tappasya next to Godavari river/jungle. When Rishi Samund did ardas at hemkunt Sahib for the assistance of Mata Durga it was then that Dusht Daman answered that ardas & appeared at hemkunt Sahib. The whole sakhi & background is huge... Sri Suraj Prakash gives much more detailed account as does local history & knowledge around Hazur Sahib

There's 2 names... rakatbheej & swarnatbheej... they both had the same ability... from drops of their blood another form of theirs appeared. Chandi Di vaar the battle was with Swarnatbheej. Some say that rakatbheej & swarnatbheej was the same demon but some say they were 2 seperate demons. The battle between Mata Durga & these demons lasted for thousands of years... but the time of Devi Devte is not the same as time on Earth. In Dasam Granth Mahraj touches briefly on their time on Hemkunt Sahib but never mention 'Dusht Daman' name. According to your logic this must have been because Dusht Daman history is mundane (facepalm) Read Chandi Di vaar carefully & you will realise that Mata Durga had an army of Nihangs fighting along side her. Certain Bani mahraj wrote just for the purpose of Bir Ras & nothing else... Nihangs & other puratan sampardas know this & know why... you are free to believe what you want & call it 'mundane'.

In Sri Dasam Granth mahraj says in several places that for the sake of not allowing this Granth to become to voluminous I will say what needs to be said in a summaried way. The background to the battle between Chandi Mata & the demons & the connection to Rishi Samund & Rishi Dusht Daman is told in Sri Suraj Prakash Granth.

In Satyug when Mata Durga was fighting rakatbheej & the other demons Mata Durga exhausted from battle fled into the mountains. There she came across Rishi Samund ( Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji). Recognising Rishi Samund as the embodiment of the Lord Mata Durga pleaded for help in defeating the demons... Rishi Samund hearing her plea answered her ardas by commanding Rishi Dusht Daman (Guru Gobind Singh Ji) to reveal himself. Rishi Dusht Daman with folded hands asked what his orders were from Rishi Samund... Rishi Samund then commanded Dusht Daman to destroy all the demons. On hearing this Dusht Daman removed his khal (tiger skin) from around his body & upon shaking it 96 crore tigers appeared... that's why the Khalsa are known as Khal-se ( born from tiger skin). They went into the battlefield led by Dusht Daman & destroyed the demons. Your correct when you say a protagonist in a Bani nihangs read is a woman... but we recognise her as the sargun saroop of Adh Shakti & respect her as such. we do not worship her as or regard her as Parmeshvar himself.... Mata Durga sought the help of Rishi Samund (Guru Tegh Bahadur) & Rishi Dusht Daman (Guru Gobind Singh Ji) who were the sargun saroop of Akal Purekh.

Go to Shaheedi Bagh in Anandpur Sahib, it's about 5 min walk from Kesgarh Sahib. Ask for Baba Gurdev Singh. Shaheedi Bagh is a Nihang Singh chauni

This video gives a good history of these sampardas... it's depressing to think what we as a panth have lost

Which year & which of the Guru's established AKJ?

You served in a worldy man made army that is part of Kalyugs machinery.... congratulations to you. I am happy to serve & learn in Akal Purekhs amry... where we are taught bhagti first & then the cultivation & use of Akal Shakti. Akal Purekhs army serves dharam.... the army you served in serves kalyug & adharam.

Udasis, sevapanthis, nirmalas/taksalis & nihangs are the branches of the tree that is Sikhi. These 4 sampardas are like specialist schools/way of life. Majority of the Panth are Sikhs of Mahraj. My issue is with man made cults... not the majority of sikhs who just belong to 'Sikh Panth'.

Udasis, sevapanthis, nirmalas/taksalis & Nihangs were all established by Guru Mahraj themselves & will always remain true in this dark age of kuljug. Any other groups or jathas that came into exsistence after these 4 are man made cults.

I'll stick to Hazur Sahib & Budha Dal Maryada....you can run things your way.... she can be 1 of the Panj Pyare along side a kusra transsexual at one of your equal rights Panj Pyare amrit sanchars

Need to do more then name & shame.... when the opportunity arises REAL singhs & sikhs of mahraj need to get their hands on these 2 & give them a beating so severe they never dare even raise their eyes infront of a woman ever again.... beat them so severely that anyone who even considers doing such lowly acts in the future thinks twice before doing so.

A woman can't give birth unless a man plants his seed (desire) inside her... just like Adh Shakti Maya can't create anything until parmeshvar gives hukam of his desire to expand. The translation says 'khande ki pahul'.. I've attached pic so you can see for yourself. The rehitnama also warns against keeping sangat with certain types of men.... just like Dasam Bani does If you want to put the Mehals of Guru Sahib on the same level as your average wordly woman then that's your choice. If maryada at Hazur Sahib is so wrong then how is it that sikhi is flourishing in that area? Almost every sikh is kesadhari & shasterdhari. They have Prakash & unwavering love & devotion to Dasam Pita's Bani. No Muslim or non sikh even dares to smoke for miles around Hazur Sahib. Compare that to Panjab... where the 'mainstream' maryada is followed... no Prakash of Dasam Granth at any Takhat... hardly any kesadhari youth left... alcohol & tobacco being consumed & sold within walking distance of Gurdwaras... including Harimandir Sahib.... The proof is in the pudding as they say... how can it be that the place that is following manmat is flourishing but the place that is following so called real maryada is in a pathetic state?

Sant Ji also says that women can't be in Punj Pyare.. so not complete equality there. Also it should be clarified that Hazur Sahib, Budha Dal & Bhai Chaupa Singhs rehitnama do not say women should not be given amrit, they all say women should not be given 'Khande Ki Pahul' (which today is commonly called amrit) Bhai Chaupa singhs rehitname also warns against keeping sangat with certain types of men so it's not just women who are targeted. I don't think this logic is applicable... this is the same logic anti Dasam Granth people use to denounce Dasam Bani, in particular Sri Charitropakhyan bani.

Based on that argument then you must be of the opinion that Hazur Sahib & Budha Dal follow their own made up maryada?

In a previous post I've already said that the likes of Sant Gurbachan Singh & Sant Jarnail Singh propergating that women take amrit is understandable as by the time they came on the scene the practice of giving amrit to women had already become a common practice EXCEPT for at Hazur Sahib & Budha Dal (who say the follow unchanged maryada from time of mahraj). Sant Gurbachan Singh was born around 1903, Sant Jarnail Singh around 1947... by that point the practice of giving amrit to women had become common practice.... although Naamdharis vehemently say & write in their books that they were the first to start doing this around 1850s... why would they make such claims if sikhs were already doing this. That was written 1 year prior to 1900... great! Originals of Bhai Chaupa Singhs rehitnama are available at Hazur Sahib. the best source that explains Hazur Sahib maryada is Sri Hazur Sahib Maryada Parbodh & was written by mahapursh Baba Joginder Singh Ji Bottom line it all comes down to is you have 1 of the 5 takhts... Hazur Sahib & Budha Dal claiming they follow a maryada that is the maryada direct from mahrajs time against a maryada that on the balance of evidence seems to have been changed around 1900s due to various reasons. The panth was also given gurgaddi & authority in the form of Punj Pyare... so if the panth did decide to alter maryada in 1900 then there's nothing wrong with that as long as the WHOLE panth decided to do so together... but that hasn't happened... 1 of our 5 takhats & a historical institution that goes back to the time of mahraj both follow the same maryada as each other but different to the rest of the panth... Sants from both sides saying different things... which side is right?

Yep, because I can provide arths for only 2 words out of the whole line.... after 2 words I miraculously lose the ability to do 3 or 4 words or the whole line.... mahraj only gave me the ability limited to 2 words per line... You was asked to show where 'women' are mentioned in that line as per the translation you posted..... and as per usual you provide nothing but hot air... tell everyone here, from that line you posted, which Gurmukhi word means women??? you was asked yesterday to provide reference to a hukamnama or rehitnama where mahraj used a pen name rather then their real name, please provide reference to back up your comment? its been over a week since you said you would provide references & evidence for pre 1900 that women were given Khande Di Pahul in 1699... please provide those references?... I remember you making a comment about 'you better put big boy pants on today' but rather what has happened since is that your child sized kachera has been getting pulled down & you've been getting exposed for the small & inadequate specimen that you are Theres a familiar pattern emerging with you..... speaks a lot of hot air, has no substance, can't back anything up with references, makes bold claims then can't back them up, when asked a question you are unable to answer you come back with a question of your own that is usually fabricated out of thin air to divert the question asked of you in the first place... nice try... but like I said... won't work with me Provide answers to all the above questions & provide all the references & evidence to back up all the claims you made... do that & gain some credibility.... until then keep your mouth shut

Once again this fool fabricates stuff out of thin air & resorts to childish comments to cover up his inadequacy. The arths given by shabad kosh for 'nar' says nar can mean man, narsingh (avtar of Vishnu), a unique breed of gods or Narayan. When you have Nar & Manuka together the message is clearly being directed to that Nar which is of human kind. You can try to divert & cover up for your lack of knowledge & fabricate stuff out of thin air all you want... won't work with me