sikhiseeker

WJKK WJKF Yea totally agree, media like films can be used in a progressive manner and reach were the gurdwaras can't. It's like that cartoon, "Bhai Taru Singh" was really really good. Disney (in India) animated "Arjun, The warrior prince" and it was amazing. If something was done like that using history of the Sikhs it would be amazing.

WJKK WJKF I understand your point totally, but my point was someone like Bhai Jugraj Singh ji has obviously done so much more than someone pretending to be a sikh and looking "cool" in a silly Bollywood film like the Deols. I don't watch Bollywood or Panjabi films, as really their just the same sorta thing. But I don't think theirs anybody in both industries who represent Sikhs and what a sikh stands for.

WJKK Pag, trimmed beard and no role model for Sikhs, I prefer the way how Bhai Jugtar Singh ji looks from the basics of sikhi, a role model and inspiration, practising what he preaches, rather than some fool who wraps mere cloth around his head and grows some stubble for a movie. A Sikhs dastar with uncut kesh is the physical image which we should be promoting I think.

WJKK WJKF No rumour, definitely true, so that he could marry a Muslim, Hema Malini.

WJKK WJKF @simran345 Sister, it's funny you should mention these so called sikh actors the Deols, as their dad converted to Islam to marry hema Malini in real life lol.

WJKK WJKF BIg Tera, your spot on bro! We should also highlight the so called panjabi film industry doing the same sorta thing, idiots like Diljit Dosanjh and Jazzy B spreading their caste supremacy in titles like "jatt and Juliette", portraying sikh men with shaven beards and the "sikh" girls what fit right under the western ideology of beauty, as do the actors/actresses of Bollywood.

WJKK WJKFVeer ji, it's not about me being wrong or right, it's all about gurmat. Sometimes we disagree with gurmat, but it's hukam so we have to follow it whether we disagree or agree with it. The gurus light prevails through all the darkness of the mind. Through our posts to one another, it is evident that as Sikhs, we can debate and work from sikhi ithias and gurmat. Next time you come across a missionary, debate and discuss with them and let your sikhi gurmat shine without insulting them or Jesus Christ, as Bhai Jugraj Singh ji did in debate to The Dawah Man. We all as Sikhs can be parcharaks and make a change. Exactly how Shiri guru Nanak dev ji did. If you haven't seen the Basics of Sikhi debate with the Dawah man already I have uploaded it. If you get time watch it. This is the way to defeat this issue brother, through knowledge, passion, pyar and gurmat. Not anger! Your passion for the Kaum shines, May it shine stronger and may the guru bless you and your family. WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKF Veer ji, you cannot base your opinion on all Christians around the world from your experiences on the missionaries within the panjab. Historical events usually end up with to components to the drive of such an event like the crusades, usually money and power. The vehicle for this is the hijacking of religion. In the case of the crusades, obviously Christianity. Fact of the matter is, terrible PEOPLE do terrible things. As veer Johny101 has stated, the parchar, services and support for the people from sikh establishments and bodies should be increased and be the best it can be. As both you and I know, many so called parcharaks lack this passion and will use our nirmal panth Sikhi, to forward their own personal agendas, finances and maryada. Here in the UK we have free speech, that means you can say what you wish. Everybody has the right to practice their religion. Again, In panjab, it's the parcharaks what fail. Here in the UK we have an excellent parcharak named Bhai Jugraj Singh ji, his passion for Sikhi shines and is a beacon, attracting the youth of today towards the light of Sikhi like a moth when a light is switched on. If you do not know of this parcharak, search for him on YouTube under "basics of Sikhi". The way this parcharak dealt with the Muslim preacher "the Dawah Man" is in my opinion what lacks in panjab, open debate with the opposite. Once this is done, the light of Sikhi will shine without tainting Sikhs, through debate and conversation. But being a sikh, living in the UK and experiencing many Christians, you are wrong to stereo type many people. How many Christians have you actually met personally, to then judge the whole worlds population of them lol? If your way of thinking was gurmat, Shiri Guru Gobind Singh would of treated every single Muslim as criminals, as the crimes of what Hindustan witnessed and was the victim of at the hands of the Mughal Muslims. However no such feeling has ever been recorded in ithias of any of our guru sahibs stereo typing any individual, irregards of caste, colour, sex or religion. Also at a time when so called Christians were causing much havoc in the world too, alongside the Mughals. Also veer ji, it is not for a sikh too judge another, this job will be undertaken by Chit, Gupat, Dharamraj and Akal Purakh. Not you or me.

WJKK WJKFI didn't know the perpetrators of the above crimes you mentioned personally, however you simply cannot judge a whole religious percentage on the actions of individuals or groups of people who promote they are from the particular religion. That's somewhat ridiculous. Also, the tennents of the 10 commandments, which derive from the Jewish Torah are the real basis of Chrishiantity. No book or record was ever recorded by jesus's own hand or during his life. It was written down after. Do you not recognise the fact that the person who converts must have a weak connection to their previous religion? Maybe we should look at the reasons of why modern day sikhs would convert and establish some understanding. Sikhs are now settled all over the world, prospering, yet the birthplace of sikhi is in squalor, with not much respect for one another, caste issues, drug and alcoho lissues, poverty issues, farming issues including suicide, rape issues, murders carried out by the governments, genocide, self explortation, prostitution, individual dera babas and an let's not forget, female baby abortions. No wonder people wanna sell their land and move out! Do you not think, as Sikhs we should address these issues and question what do we do within our own nirmal dharam? To judge all Christians by the doings of other Christians is silly, should we judge all Hindus on the way Sikhs were treated in 1984? Have you ever heard of the Christian lady, Mary secole? Or the Christian nun Dhan dhan Mother Theresa, or William Wilberforce? Maybe Martin Luther King or even Doctor Cole, who tried to offer his service to shiri Guru Gobind Singh? You also forgot to mention the "Sikhs" who were brought by the Brithish in the Sikh-Anglo wars, or the sikhs who promote their caste supremacy under the Nirmal panth of sikhi! I find it's better to make a decision based on individual circumstances, rather than tarnish all, with the same brush. Your posts on the topic " gori sardani sets a grey example" are kinda of relevant here, as you quoted gurbani, the light of Akal purakh is within all, that means Christians too! On a personal note, I have met a few beautiful people in my life living in the uk as I am Brithish. Many of these people were Christians who serve people with love, equality and humilty. This Kirpal Singh is only demonstrating his weakness towards sikhi, in my opinion it is better that the weak links within our dharam break off and move on, leaving one United strong linked chain. WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKF Sikha, you have just judged millions of Christians all around the world in one little sentence lol.

WJKK WJKF Great post veer, many Sikhs forget the ideology of the Sargun and nirgun roop of waheguru, hence why this kinda semitical idea of death has crept in and the basis of any jhatka/meat/tilak debate is an animal had to be jhatkaad and killed, but failing to realise that there is no death, just a departure of two things, the mind from the body. Many Sikhs like to look at sikhi through a western scientific set of eyes so to speak, forgetting about the vast spiritual aspect of sikhi what science and reason does not explain as Guru Granth Sahib Ji tells us in this shabad: please note how even stones are carried across by swami and how guru Nanak is "balihar" to swami.

WJKK WJKF no need to apologise, it's all interesting stuff. My reply is based on the quote "Kaal Tuhi, Kali Tuhi." The reason why I bring the namashakar point up is in response to "why put a blood Tilakh on a shastar" it's the same as why namashakar a physical object like a shastar if it is simply a sword or gun with no other meaning. The same can be said as when the new appointed guru would be anointed on the forehead with a Tilakh by dhan dhan baba Buddha ji, why? What was the significance of the tilak on the new guru? Was that too not just mere ritual then? Again, what's your view on the stirring of the Amrit with a khanda and using a Kirpan to issue bhog? Why? To me, this is evidence along side the namashakar of shastar, that a shastar is not simply a physical object, There is a huge spiritual presence of the ultimate warrior created by akal purakh within that metal, hence why a Khalsa should be shastar dhari. When we see our guru we offer petha, what else would a soldier of akal purakh offer a shastar other than blood? A cream cake lol! The point I'm trying to put across is that sikhi has a spiritual aspect too. Not just facts based on the sciences of humanity on this world. It holds a universal truth. The origins of mata sahib kaur to me are irrelevant. It doesn't change anything. The important point is the amrit. The fact of the matter is that if a warrior chooses to anoint their shastar with blood via jhatka out of respect just like the namashakar to the same physical object, so be it. The same for the sikh who chooses not to anoint the shastar, that is their choice within their thought process with their Kirpan. However, a day can arise, when the shastar will have to be anointed, if ever a war was to be fought again, we will inevitably have to hold our shastar in our hands and shed blood of another. Hopefully we will all know how to use them if ever it was to happen. I'm sure you will agree, many kirpans look beautiful in their scabbards adorning the gursikh, but how many gursikh know at what angle or speed and strength would you need to swing your beautiful Kirpan to decapitate? Or would we all just swing it like a baseball bat lol? Look forward to your reply brother/sister?

WJKK WJKF The mool mantra starts with ik onkar, the creator of all and within the creation itself. Just as we believe, as gurbani teaches us, plants, animals, trees, the earth.....etc is all the creation of akaal purakh, the very matter of the creation is akal purakh, the devte devia are too a creation of god, they are of a different embodiment and of a different intellect, they are a highly intelligent extra terrestrial race in comparison to humans, hence why the worship of these entities by humans has been done throughout time. However as of all the creations of akaal purakh, they are imperfect, only the creator is perfect. So the devte devia battle with the same 5 vices jut the same as us. When we see the mishandling sahib outside a gurdwara on the wag to work in the car, we pay our respect in namashakar. When we as Sikhs see someone's funereal procession, we do namashakar, when we see our elders we give respect and namashakar. This is why Guru Gobind Singh hi told us to namashakar weapons, guns, swords, axes, bows, chakra....etc. like how they namashakar the weapons when performing gatka. So why would our guru jibtell us to namashakar a physical object? Because within that object, when placed within the hand of the Khalsa fauj, the shakti of akaal purakh and the ultimate warrior throughout the ages, Durga is present. This is why we should do namashakar to this entity within the steel, as it is apart of akaal purakh as akaal purakh is everything. If the Kirpan is just a mere object, why do we need to do bhog with it to pars had within the gurdwara, why not just eat the parshad straight after the hukamna or do the bhog with a big spoon, why a big Kirpan? Also why did Guru Gobind Singh use a Khanda to stir the Amrit, why not use a ladle?

WJKK WJKF I don't doubt one bit that Durga mata exists though, I also wonder about the other life times of dusht daman, is there any sakhia?

WJKK WJKF In doing what you feel for happiness is Mann marjee. For a sikh there is the rehat.

Veer ji, I have read this sakhi, il try and find out its details and get back to you when I have some info.

WJKK WJKF Veer ji, what do you think the outcome was when Sri Guru Gobind Singh performed the havan?

WJKK WJKF Sounds very far fetched and a little too late....which bright spark had the idea of wiping out innocent family members of an individual's criminal activity or bringing more than 101 wedding guests, how ridiculous! Sounds like the same mentality which wiped out dhan dhan baba moti ram mehra. Also be great to find out the decision process of such a trail, sounds alil like the witch hunt trials of salem. These people need to get real and get an education. The problem starts with Badal and the Indian culture. The attitude to women is disgusting and this mentality is throughout India. It's 2014 and there still many cavemen who claim to be sikh. Maybe the first port of call would be the dera babeh like ram raheem, then the political side and then educating people about not issuing a dowry, rather than wiping them out lol?!

WJKK WJKF I am still awaiting a response in your point of view in reply to me on this topi ? I was looking forward to reading your view.

WJKK WJKF Veer ji, so as Sikhs, taking the Sri dasam Granth into account and also the shiri Guru Granth Sahib ji, we should hold respect for Durga mata and the other pantheon of gods right? Would you say the chandi di // are in praise of Durga mata or in prayer to Durga mate?

WJKK WJKF My point exactly!

WJKK WJKF Don't you mean the surname Khalsa and not Brar?

WJKK WJKF Veer ji, your response carries much meaning hence why it's great to hear your educated view. Veer ji, how do you feel about the use of the tabla, nagara and sarangi. Generally other animal by products being used within and for dharma for dharmic purposes based on a vegetarian sikh's opinion? Also, what's is your understanding on dhan dhan Bhai gurdas ji's vaar about the use of animals? Thanks

WJKK WJKF Veer Mehtab Singh, what is your opinion on being vegetarian or vegan and then using animal by products. Do you think a sikh should be vegan? As always look forward to hearing your reply brother!

WJKK WJKFI'm not sure if your post is for my attention in reply to my post in which I quoted your post, lol if that makes sense.....but I think I understand clearly what you have written and have not misunderstood your points. You claim vegetarianism as the ultimate diet, when really the only diet for your mann is naam simran and Amrit, no other food will nourish this hunger, whether it is meat or veg or vegan. All these types are simply food for your body. Got your soul, the food which one should spiritually consume is sat, Santokh and vechar, then when ones soul get thirsty, Amrit should be taken. Shiri Guru Granth Sahib ji tells us : Thal vich tin vastu paiyo, sat, santokh vicharo. Amrit Nam Thakur ka paiyo, jis ka sabhs adharo. Jai ko khavai, jai ko bhunchai, tis ka hoye udharo Eh wast taji neh jayee nit nit rakhu urdharo. Tam sansar charan lag tariai sabh Nanak Brahm pasaro.(p.1429) (Three main things are placed in this platter, Truthfulness, contentment and meditation-deliberation along with the Nectar of His Name, the sustenance of everyone. Whosoever partakes of it, digests it (shares it with others) would attain salvation. Once partaken, this food (His Name) cant be given up, bear this ever in mind. In this way can one get across the ocean (of life and death), and become aware, sayeth Nanak, of the entire creation of the Creator (Brahm). So, this is the real food for ones soul, not meat, not veg and not vegan, however if you wish to come under one of the above categories, so be it, but we must all be prepared for battle and be shastar dhari, as per gurus hukam, clear cut enough for me. Also, when our gurus and shaheed were in battle, yes dhan dhan akali nihang Shiri guru gobind Singh ji praised soldiers on the other side for fighting bravely, however they acted in the very same way as ISIS is right now, trying to spread Islam by the sword. There is now difference to the fanaticism then as it is happening right now. However mahaan sikh like dhan dhan baba kanaya ji understood the gian of gurbani, as he have water to all fallen soldiers, the water being contained within an animal by product, I wonder if any sikh, as you assume we should all be vegetarian refused to drink the cold thirst quenching water as it was stored in the stomach of a dead animal? I also then wonder if any fallen Hindu refused, or if any fallen musalmaan refused, as the by product most definitely would of not been a by product of halaal slaughter? As I said, opinion is one thing, sikh/non-sikh ithiaas is another thing and then gurbani is the ultimate thing, the gian of gian, not an answer and question book. Nothing never dies, just moves within the system to achieve mukhti, the merging of energy (atma) within the ultimate energy (pramaatma). The world itself is a living entity to which it undergoes it's cycle of seasons, over and over and over again, up until this game of the manifested simply will cease to exist at the will of waheguru. WJKK WJKF