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JagsawSingh

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Posts posted by JagsawSingh

  1. For me, a search of the archives of this very forum is worth 10 million% more than any 'sikh book'. (to those of you who recommended he read Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji: hang your heads in shame for thinking our living Guru is a 'book')

    OP......a search of this forum will reveal that we (the Sikhs) are no longer the uneduacted and illiterate plebs at the mercy of the urban 'half-sikh/half-hindu' classes that are the authors of 99% of the historical sikh related books that exist. We've passed that stage. We've passed the stage where one of those celebrated urban class sikhs could, simpply because his mother and father were also urban educated, write sikh history books whereby they tell the sikh world that the word 'nihung' means crocodile.

    No. We're at the stage where the sons, daughters, grandsons and grand-daughters of rural sikhs that emigrated to England, Canada etc are, for the first time, out-educating those urban lot in India and pointing out their ineptidude. An archived search of sikhsangat.com is the same as the greatest sikh book ever written.

    Go.

    Go on a voyage of discovery.

  2. Fateh Jio

    I have been told that there will be an Amrit Sanchar at Guru Maneyo Granth Gurdwara Slough (previosuly known as Prabh Milne KA Chao Swindon)

    Apparently no one can take amrit without the reach a certain stage so they have to go through a test.

    People place their names in that wish to take amrit and only those who pass the test (i.e can do darshan of god, have no thoughts) are allowed to take amrit.

    Is this fine to do?

    I'm confused as this dosen't happen at other places apart from PMKC Moga and PMKC related places

    isn't this the same group (the swindon gurdwara) who have mad heavy metal style simran session where they shake their heads so violently that the dastars actually go flying off ?

  3. They shouldn't have been on the list. I remember when it first came out in reaction to 9/11. I think they wanted to stick a few nonMuslim organisations in just to not look anti-Islamic.

    They did it because your country (India) told the British government that Sikhs who want a free Punjab are 'terrorists' and thus pleaded with the British government to ban the ISYF.

    The fact that your initial natural reaction is to blame the British and not for one second see anything negative your India could have done tells us everything we need to know about you dallysing101.

  4. Not only is the 'celebration' a disgrace; the shameless effrontery of the British military, who still can't seem to stop themselves from getting involved in illegal wars with horrific consequences for the lands they occupy (lasting long after they leave), is staggering.

    You would have thought they would have felt some shame for doing what they did to Sikhs but no, they celebrate it.

    Germans join in with commemorations of Dunkirk and V Day. Never seen you call them a "disgrace".

    Japanese join in with commemorations of Pearl Harbour and VJ Day. Never seen you call them a "disgrace".

    Taliban, as fighting men (pathans) remembered the prowess in wars of the Sikhs, despite the Sikhs being the enemy in those wars....respected and honoured that prowess and thus gave Sikhs special treatment and privileges during Taliban rule in Afghanistan. Don't recall you ever complaining about that and saying that was "disgraceful" and demanding the Sikhs be treated as badly as the Hindus in Afghanistan.

    At the end of the day your (Dallysingh) consistent position of bashing Britain and bashing the British Army articulates fully your unashamed position as a fully fledged Indian.

    The fact that your position on Britain and the right wing Hindu Indian position on Briatin is exactly the same is ample proof of where your loyalty and love lies.

    To the rest of you: You need to wake up and realise that your history has nothing to do with the colonisation of India via the East India Company. Thats Indian history. Thats nothing to do with you. You are Sikhs of the Punjab. You and your totally seperate and totally independant nation had nothing to do with India. You and your history has nothing to do with Clive of India in Calcutta. Thats their history....thats their problem.....nothing to do with you. You, the Sikh of the Punjab need to understand that your first confrontation with the 'British' came many generations after they (the British) already ruled India. Understand who you are.

    Understand how and why these India loving Sikhs detest a nation that beat us Sikhs and occupied our nation that was totally seperate to India by legitimately winning a war with us (its not their fault we had Hindu traitors in our army) and yet fail to see how a country that illegally occupies us by tricking, deceiving and lying to us (the promises of self-determination made at the all india congress at calcutta 1946) is the real scum....the real enemy....the real evil nation....the real coloniser.

    Ask yourseves why it is that DallySingh constantly tries to divert your attention away from the real evil (India) and plant ideas in your head about a past enemy (Britain) ?

    Ask yourselves why it is that DallySingh says exactly the same thing here about Britain that right wing Hindu Indian facists say on right wing Hindu Indian websites.

    Ask yourselves why India desparetely scrambled to scrap any talk of a British Sikh Army Regiment being created.

    And then ask yourself if it is just a coincidence that DallySingh has the same point of view as the Indians.

    The Indians (and their proxy here DallySingh) will do and say anything to stop the Sikhs doing anything that makes the Sikhs realise that they are a distinct race and nation that has absolutely nothing to do with India. Thus, the Indians (and their proxy here DallySingh) plant seeds inside your head whereby they create a false enemy. Its a very clever idea because it not only makes the Sikh forget who his real enemy is but it even makes the Sikh unknowingly assume a political position that is on the exactly the same side as the right wing Hindu Indian facist.

    Wake up Sikhs. Wake up to whats being done to you. The Indians want you to forget that they are illegally occupying you by tricking you in 1946.......they want you to forget that they have, since then, carved up your homeland in tiny pieces.....They want you to forget that they even refuse to acknowledge you exist (as per their consitution).....They want you to forget that they have, since then, gone on regular massacre, genocide and rape sprees againt you. Instead, they want you to imagine that the land of your birth (Britain)....the land that is your homeland... is the enemy.

    Wake up and understand that if you are on exactly the same side as evil vicious right wing hindu fanatic facists about an issue then you're probably on the wrong side.

  5. You're all wasting your time if you think Dallysingh will ever wake up and understand how India is the real enemy of the Sikhs. His mind is so full of hatred of the British and the rural Sikhs he just can't seem to get past that. That makes him so pathetic he doesn't even realise or understand how the anti-British venom he spews is exactly the same as the anti-British venom the the Indians spew. At the end of the day.....Dallysingh is nothing more than an Indian. You might as well call him Dally Ram. You can trawl back through everything that man has ever written on sikhsangat and you will never once find anything that displays a deep desire for Punjab and the Sikhs to be free from Indian occupation. The man is an Indian through and through. The things he says here are are exactly the same things the right wing Hindus say on right wing Hindu forums.....i.e the real enemy is Britain and British colonialism. Those supportng him need to grow and wake up.....i.e realise that they are giving the thumbs up to the same views that right wing hindus also have.

  6. These types of 'publicity stunts' are for the dim-witted and sycophantic amongst the peasants. Everyone else can see them for the bull5hit they are.

    What kind of d1ckhead celebrates their own people's conquest and subjugation... <phew>

    Do Germans not join in with the commemerations of Dunkirk ?

    I'm willing to bet you've never once posted messages on the internet calling the entire German nation a bunch of "d1ckheads".

    No. What you are Dallysingh, is someone from a family that has no history of warfare.....no family culture of being soldiers....no understanding of brotherhood in arms.

    Those that come from army stock....throughout the world...have a deep understanding and respect for those that fell before them. That is something you can never understand and that is why you sit behind a computer and criticise because basically, thats all you're good for; criticising. Thats the only value you have.

    The battle of Ferozshah was an epic battle. A brutal one. Army men from army families will forever remember the fallen on both sides. A few years ago I sat my little boys down and narrated stories from that epic battle and they're interest was such that they;ve been begging me since to take tem to see the battle standards at lichfield.

    In the meantime, pathetic internet warriors like yourself who have never served in any army, from a pathetic soft family who has never had anyone serve in any army, do the only thing you're capable of doing, i.e spot another opportunity to make a veiled casteist attack on rural sikhs and let out your frustration and bitterness at coming from a background that was never deemed good enough to serve as a soldier by any army.

  7. How many "bushy beards" model pictures have you honestly seen at a clothing store? Or even on fashion advertisements

    Well. at least we now know 4 things about you Jacfsing2, and all four are actually good things so I don't want you to think I'm putting you down:

    • You don't follow fashion
    • You don't follow what's happening on the male catwalks of Paris, London or Milan
    • You don't read fashion mags / celebrity mags / gossip mags
    • You don't seem to have gotten out very often in 2015 and observed the faces of males in shopping malls

    Good for you. I think its quite quaint and endearing....not knowing what's going on in the world around you.

  8. Do you live in some fantasy world? All the people whom your talking about are Non-Sikhs, and if a Sikh, (even in name-only) happens to even be an exception it would go through a lot of hate from both Non-Sikhs, (for being so uncommon), or from the Sikhs, (for disgrace of Guru Sahib's keski), either way model companies now it's very difficult to have business putting a Singh as a front-model, at most they will have 1 or 2, and that's only to get them ethnic Sikhs/Punjabis to buy their products.

    My point to him.....and its a point that obviously went over your empty little head......is that he should not feel ashamed or 'uncool' about having a beard. My point is that if a Sikh feels ashamed to have a beard at a time when long bushy beards are the height of 'cool' and fashion then there really isn't much hope for him when they go out of fashion.

    Hence, thats why I said "my.......what a strange time to feel ashamed of having a beard". :stupidme:

  9. Didn't know there were whitewashed apnay doing the whole presents and xmas tree thing! I wonder if the families that do this are bowling around in bright, cheesy xmas jumpers on the day? lol

    OK, now you've crossed the line.

    I will tolerate and respect your views about xmas but I WILL NOT stand by and tolerate whilst insults are hurled at the xmas jumpers. I've go 2 ( a brownish coloured rudolph the red nosed reindeer one and a lovely red santa clause one) and I've been wearing them most days after work this last week or so, and also when we go shopping to Asda. Both my kids also love to wear theirs (both have snow man type ones). My kids brought me my jumpers out of love and I absolutely love wearing them. Rest assured, all of us (apart from my wife, who is from India and so doesn't understand the whole jumper thing) will be wearing our xmas jumpers on xmas day as we all tuck into a lovely xmas dinner comprised of a lovely variety of daals and sabjian.

  10. Now...in 2015/2016.......when long bushy beards are ultra-fashionable throughout the western world......with everyone that is 'cool', from pop stars to male super-models....all sporting long bushy beards.......seems like a very strange time for an amritdhari Sikh male to say he doesn't like beards. :wow:

  11. If anyone can provide evidence of anyone of the Gurus celebrating another religions or secular or commercial holiday. We will celebrate Christmas at the gurdwara. Provide specific details of when, where, and how it was celebrated.

    I take it you also refuse to take a day off for the May day bank holiday, especially as it has communsm as it's root and the fact that our Gurus never took a day off for it and of course forcefully demand that your employers pay you single rate pay rather than bank holiday double ?

    I'm sure you do, because I know you're a nice man and there is absolutely no way you would be a hypocrite.

    Right ?

  12. devout christians and catholics?

    Outside of the Nigerian/Ghanian communities there's about the same number of actual practcising christians in the UK as there are Jedis who belive Luke Skywalker is the son of god.

    Get with the programme people. It is 2015...soon to be 2016. Getting and opening presents at xmas as a kid didn't turn me into christian and it won't my kids either. Nor yours. They are kids. Let kids be kids. They are nowhere near as stupid, misinformed or hateful as we adults.

  13. I swear everytime I look at this thread I feel like I'm in a nightmare where an evil scientist has kidnapped me, put my in a time travelling capsule and dropped me slap bang in the middle of a 1940's Women's Institute meeting in a village hall somehwere in rural Shropshire. I mean who, apart from middle aged women from the 1940's, in this day and age, actually thinks about christianity at xmas time ? :biggrin2:

  14. 2. Missisauga does not have more Pakistanis than Bradford, or more Muslims. Nor is the Muslim population 3x as much, it is about double. Sikhs dominate on the West, out East, muslims and hindus have strong populations too. In Toronto Sikhs have very strong populations in Brampton, Malton, and Etobicoke. Muslims and Hindus have Scarborough and many other areas.

    Sorry to burst your bubble bro, but lol there is some support for Donald Trump out here, at least amongst the younger generation.

    Did have the whole "moderate vs Fundi" thing in the 90's that caused a split and violence, but by 2015 all but 2 Gurdwaray are under Fundi control. Not including Nanaksar ones.

    4 things KhoonKaBadlaKhoon: Firstly, why in gods name are you stating the bleeding obvious? In a discussion about Miississauga, what on earth possessed you into writing things that everybody already knows about the "west coast, Brampton" etc ? I mean what exactly is the point in wasting your own and everybody else's time in this way ? :blink2:

    Secondly, when the official Canadian census reveals that there are between 2 and 3 times more Muslims than Sikhs in Canada and I, of course, in order to make a point, round it UP, why would you even think it worthwhile for you to counter it by rounding it DOWN ? I mean what exactly is the point in wasting your own and everybody else's time in this way ?

    But, for arguments sake, lets just take a brief moment to analyse the 2001 census figures. Since then, although there has also been a massive influx of Sikhs, lets not forget that Muslims have been officialy labelled the fasting growing religion in Canada during the same period, so have increased in numbers even more. In 2001, Sikhs made up 1.9% of the Greater Toronto area whereas Muslims made up 5.5%. Whichever way you look at it, the '3 x' analogy is a fair and balanced position to take.

    Thirdly, we were talking about the Sikh community as a whole and not Canadians at large when we talked about 'support for a facist articulating facist ideology' (Donald Trump). So....who exactly is this significant number of facist policy supporting "young" Sikhs in Canada that you speak of ?

    And fourthly, may I remind you that you are on a Sikh forum not an Indian one. For we Sikhs, the people you describe as "moderates" are in fact extremists. They are extremists because they believe in an ideology that is extreme from Sikhi as can get and is closer to hinduvta. The people you describe as "fundis" are more or less nearly all the people you are conversing with right here, i.e just Sikhs. The enemies of Sikhs like to tarnish the name of Sikhs by labelling them "fundis". We don't need uneducated youngster Sikhs from Canada doing the same. Sort yourself out bruvs.

    If there are any Sikhs living in Missassauga they would more likely live in the outskirts, suburban areas bordering towards Brampton/Peel/Vaughan. Sikhs don't do condos, they prefer proper houses with basements which they can rent out. The Pakistanis that move into these areas only are picking up Sikh hand me downs. It is a similar pattern you see in the UK.

    No, you're quite wrong on most of your points there Ranjeet. Firstly, the Pakistanis of the greater Toronto area are mostly Punjabi rather than Mirpuri and very much like the Hindu Punjabi community of the UK they are nearly all from the middle class educated groups from the cities of Pakistan Punjab. Thus, they tend to be more educated than the average Sikh immigrant to Canada. Whilst the few that move to the west coast do undoubtedly start off in the basements of Sikh households, the same is not neccesssarily true in Ontario. They already have established suburban neighbourhoods in places such as Markham as well as districts in the city of Mississauga such as Meadowvale, Lisgar, Erindale, Cooksville and Applewood etc.

    There are a quite a lot of Somalis in Minnesota too and they are not looked upon very kindly. They are quite problematic particularly with the African American community.

    It would be interesting to see what Jamaicans in Toronto think of Somalis in Canada. I would guesstimate that their opinions would not be too different from their Afro-Caribbean brothers in London.

    Exactly Ranjeet. Canada and America actually have a bigger problem with their Somalians than we do in the UK. I'm glad you mentioned the Minnesota problem but its a similar story in Canada. But, as I said before, we in the UK seem to have a whole load of moaning minnies within our Sikh community who just keep moaning and whining all the time as if its the end of days.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/why-so-many-somali-canadians-who-go-west-end-up-dead/article4365992/?page=all

    In Toronto itself there is a big problem between Jamaicans and Somalians. Those 2 groups really don't like each other and alot of it has to do with street drug gangs.

    I would agree that UK Sikhs can be a bunch of whining babies, but that is probably because we live in a country of complainers

    .

    Thats the understatement of the year Ranjeet. I cringe whenever I see and hear my fellow Sikhs from the UK constantly complain about this and that. Firstly, I have increasingly over the years come to the conclusion that the UK is the most ill-informed uneducated nation on earth, People here, especially Sikhs, seem to know so very little about realities in the outside world. Thats why, whenever anyone makes comments along the lines of 'ignorant americans' I always step in and remind the UK ones that it is in fact they who the most ignorant of the world. Constantly crying and complaining like babies. Constantly imagining that they've got it so hard....that they've got the worst situation in the world....and that everywhere else the grass is green and the roses smell nice. Unbelievable stupidity.Unbelievable ignorance. I mean imagine if the following was in UK papers last week instead of Canadian ones. The UK Sikhs would have gone into a frenzy of dispair...as to how the community has now truly gone to the dogs. This is one of the saddest, most dispairing news stories I've read in a long time but the Canadians just brush it off as nothing. They don't even give it a second thought let alone complain or whine about it and society. UK Sikhs have got to start seeing the glass as half full and realise they and their society have it so much better than others:

    http://www.southasianfocus.ca/news-story/6154306-heroin-addicted-father-shot-mother-while-their-young-children-watched-court-told/

    As if life and society was so much better in the 'good old days' when they didn't have to see a muslim face. Oh how they remenisce about the days when skinheads used to spit at their mum on the street. The days when the police would call them a "paki" and hit them. Ah the good old days. The days when crime and violence was actually worse. The days when the street used to be full of hundreds of drunks laying on the pavement. The days when cigarettes were openly sold to 12 year olds. The days when the peadophile network was open and involved high-ranking politicians and police. Oh......all that wonderfull stuff is now gone and now I have to look at a muslim's face. Booo-hoooo. Its so sad. If only another Hitler would come along and openly advocate facist policies against these Muslims, perhaps by rounding them up and making them wear identity tags. Life would be wonderfull again. :stupidme:

  15. The UK for the most part have good race relations (in my opinion).

    The Sikhs in the Uk get on with everyone (as it is with our relatively open friendly nature). We have had problems with certain segments of the Pakistani population but then again who hasn't in the UK. When you bring your clannish behaviour combined with an expansionist supremacist ideology, it's going to cause problems. For a lot of Sikhs in the UK in many cases, living in an area with less muslims improves your quality of life.

    With Somalis, no Sikhs per say has any direct issues with them but they are even more disliked by other black populations (Afro-Caribbeans and West African such as Nigerians).

    They do not seem to be a progressive people, they are still stuck in their tribal ways. They do not share the same values as us such as a work ethic and to improve your lot. After 20+ years living in parts of West London they are still on welfare.

    2 things to remember Ranjeet:

    1. Firstly, UK Sikhs need to understand that Canada has the biggest Somalian population in the western world so they know Somalians alot better than UK Sikhs do. When the Somali refugee crisis started many many years ago it was Canada that took in by far the largest and even today it is Canada that has the most.
    2. When you think of the great Sikh neighbourhoods of the Greater Toronto area, such as Brampton and Mississauga, you have to remember for example that Mississauga has more Pakistanis than Bradford. In fact for Muslims as a whole, Canada's census reveals that there are 3 times more Muslims in Canada than there are Sikhs. You also have to remember that Toronto is one of the big 4 Jamaican expatriate cities of the world (along with New York, London and Miami). In fact Toronto's Jamaican community is larger and more livelier than London's.

    So, lets recap: They have the crime. They have the Muslims. They have drugs. They have the lowering of stanadrds in neighbourhoods. They have the same things as us.

    But.....unlike us, they don't have a negative Sikh community permanently crying about it. Cryin about this. Complaining about that. They don't have a single element within the Sikh community so silly, so misinformed, so wrong, that they would actually support Donald Trump and his facist ideology. Thats the difference.

  16. It'll never happen. It should, but it won't. When our lot get a whiff of success, it's every man for himself; last one to leave turn the lights out. There's just something very uniquely selfish and individualistic about certain strands of our collective personality that is, funnily enough, a trait also found in the native English. I guess a social anthropologist might be able to narrow it down to what exactly I'm alluding to; I'm not sure I fully know it myself, lol.

    Thats not the right way of looking at it. It is a sign of human development / progress that one....once one has kids to think of....moves out of an area full of drugs, crime and litter and moves into a nice family area where, at the very least, one's children will grow up speaking English properly. It is, in fact, the people that stay behind in those areas who should have their ethics and ambition questioned.For example, why on earth would any young father and mother in Southall wish for his children to grow up in what is now officially the red-light (prostitution) and drugs capital of the whole of London ? What kind of parents would willingly, out of choice, bring their children up in such an environment ?

    Now, things are a little different in Canada and that is more or less a refelction of the young history of Canada and the difference in the way the 2 nations have developed. The historical development of England is of course mirrored in the historical development of the English language, i.e without any proper structure, in a haphazard way, incorporating rules and way as it goes along. In this way, there is a bit of a free for all in English neighbourhoods where homeowners can do whatever they please, such as tarmac the lawns whenever they want, cut down the trees, spit in the streets, dump their unwanted washing machines and other goods in the street. Canada, on the other hand, as a much younger nation, has a culture of civic pride where, for example, you can't pour warm water on your windscreen outside your house on icy mornings....having a civic duty to shovel up snow on the pavement....maintaining the ambience of a neighbourhood such as maintaining grassy front lawns. Thus, Sikh neighbourhoods in Canada do not suffer the same degredation the UK Sikh neighbourhoods suffer once other more undesirable elements start to move in. There are however exceptions to that rule, for a variety of reasons. For example Rexdale in Toronto. Traditionally / historically, the epicentre of Sikhs in Toronto but as it has since then acquired a very Jamaican atmosphere with crime etc most of the Sikhs of Rexdale have moved away to the nicer suburbs of Brampton etc. And its not always bad things that are the catalyst. Lets take Vancouver for example. Traditionally / historically, the epicentre of the Sikh community in BC was thee 'little Punjab' area of Vancouver. A very nice suburban area. Still is. Since then however, since the rich Hong Kong Chinese started moving in, very few Sikhs remain in Vancouver. In fact the Sikh population of Vancouver is absolutely tiny. Very few remain. Most have cashed in on the high value of their homes in Vancouver and moved to neighbouring cities such as Surrey, Richmond etc.

    It is human nature, to move on. To move somewhere where your children will have a better life. Throught the history of England there has only ever been one community that lacked this human ambition of progress and that community are the Bangladeshis of the East End. For the first time ever, the nation has a community that is actually willing to stay in a dump....willing to bring their kids up in a dump. That is not normal human behaviour. Normal human behaviour is to move on to better places. Those here advocating we Sikhs follow the example of the Bengalis need to sit down and re-evaluate this line of thinking.

  17. Jeez you folks need to grow up ...Donald Trump is an imbecile and if anyone believes he is the messiah giving the solution to the problem you guys are deluded .

    I grew up in that part of town and yes it has always housed the poorest people since before the HUgenots arrived , and the locals although p-poor were still vocally racist .

    You do realise there's only one person on this thread thats said anything you disagree with and that you would have to take that one person to a clone factory and get him cloned before you can start referring to the singular as "you guys" and "you folk" ?

    I grew up in that part of town and yes it has always housed the poorest people since before the HUgenots arrived , and the locals although p-poor were still vocally racist

    I think both of you are mxing diverse areas together and counting them as one as if there's no difference at all. I mean there's Hammertime going straight from Spitalfields to Whitechapel without knowing the demographics and then there's you going back to Spitalfields for your Hugenot analogy and then bypassing traditional jewish Whitechapel altogether and jumping straight iinto Bethal Green / Shoreditch/Hackney for your 'traditional white east end cockney analogy.

    I have no doubt that if the two of you got together to write a book about the history of the east end it would probably be the worst book ever written.

  18. :biggrin2: Had a great time reading the comments underneath the video. Everybody....right to the last man and woman is saying wonderful things about Sikhs, except one Hindu man. Its really funny because several times he keeps trying to bring up the air india bombing in order to show sikhs in a bad light but each time he does the others just ignore him. Then he tries again and again but they just keep ignoring him. :biggrin2:

  19. Man I know the area well and I'll share a few thoughts.

    Firstly, Osterley ain't what it used to be. When we first moved to these parts it was really leafy and had more of a village atmosphere. The Prime Minster of Pakistan Benazir Bhutto had her London house just round the corner and spent many months each year here. Everyone else was either doctors or stockbrokers and everyone valued the peace and tranquility. Over the last 15 years or so, since it became predominately desi, every household has at least 4 cars.....traffic and parking is a nightmare....every lawned front garden has been paved....and it is in no way still a 'green area' that needs protecting. Those days have long gone. Still mega expensive (houses start at £1,250,000) and upwards but far from still a village green locality. So, no excuse to stop the building of the Sikh school from that point of view.

    On the other hand, the school will have as one of it's entrances Wood Lane, and Wood Lane is arguably one of the narrowest roads in west London. It was built for a single horse to pass through....so narrow even a bicycle would struggle to pass another bicycle passing in the opposite direction. So, from that point of view, a nightmare place to have a Sikh school where the typical parents insist on driving their children to school rather than letting them get the bus like normal children.

    Question is though, will I put my kids there ?

    That depends. Depends firstly on the standard of teaching and secondly on the fact that I don't want my kids to be speaking in the standard 'asian born in the UK' dialect of second-rate english. I swear, these days, I meet some kids at my kids' gurbani classes and I can't tell who was born here in the UK and who arrived from India or anywhere else recently. The ones born here have such a poor grasp of pronounciation and use of English words it is frightening. Once this school is up and running I will arrange an interview with the school and see if they are good enough for my kids. I will want to know if they are going to employ teachers that will teach our kids to talk properly.......innit.

  20. Plus, given that you are in the UK, Sikhs themselves fought for some weird racial definition of themselves in the courts here, I'm sure you know this. Jews and Sikhs have some weird ethno-religio categorisation here. By that definition (which I might not necessarily agree with), even the most skanky, nonpractising Sikh is still a Sikh.

    What you mean "might not necessarily agree with" ?

    The fact that you keep calling the fact that Sikhs are a distinct race "weird" leaves nobody in any doubt as to where you stand. You've hardly left it a mystery dallysingh. :biggrin2:

    Anyway, back to the actual topic of the thread.....and I don't think many of you have even figured out what it is yet......Sikhs need to change the focus of this campaign. It shouldn't be about Sikh children losing self-esteem because of Skh jokes. Our emphasis should be about reminding Indian Hindus that they are a whole generation behind the rest of the civilised world in terms of realising how racist stereotype 'jokes' are the mark of a backward uncivilised people. They need to be reminded how the Americans, up until the 1970's, did exactly the same thing with exactly the same 'jokes' about Polaks (Polish-Americans) and the British, up until the 1970's, did exactly the same thing with exactly the same 'jokes' about the Irish. Both however, matured enough intellectually to realise that such 'jokes' were not only not funny...not only hurtful to those on the receiving end....but actually extremely harmful to society as a whole where children grow up thinking such racist remarks are perfectly OK.

    Our emphasis therefore, should be on reminding the Indian Hindus that they are uncivilised barbarians compared to the civilised world and if they wish to join the civilised world they need to re-think what civilised behaviour is.

  21. The day is associated with Jesus Christ. We are not isaees. If it is Paganism that you associate it with, again we are not pagans.

    This is no different than those Sikhs in India who celebrate Hindu pagan holidays like jamanastmi or Durga puja and say they do it because it is a time for fun and spend time with kids.

    Ah come on now Johnny. Get real. The year is 2015....not 1949. Except for the teeny weeny miniscule percentage of the population who actually remember it might....just might....have something to do with Christianity nobody else does. For the rest, its about fun time for the kids...friendly times with friends and work colleagues and a special guy named Santa.

    But...if you insist on using the 'pagan' excuse, let me ask you :

    • Do you also insist no Sikh should eat chocolate ? After all, chocolate was the drink the ancient aztec pagans used in their ritual ceremonies in honour of their gods.
    • Do you also never ever wear a wedding ring ? After all, the wedding ring has always been the pagan symbol of continuity.
    • When you go into work on Monday do you say you cannot say the word 'Monday' ? After all, Monday was named after the pagan moon goddess
    • On Tuesday, at work, and your manager says you were absent for the scheduled Tuesday morning meeting do you deny Tuesday exists ? After all, Tuesday was named after the pagan god Tyr.
    • Do you also have the same probem at work / college on Wednesday ? After all, Wednesday was named after the pagan god Odin
    • How are you on Thursday then Johnny ? After all, Thursday was named after the pagan god Thor.
    • What about Friday ? After all, Friday was named after the pagan goddess Frigga.
    • I'm guessing you insist your kids never dare mention the word Saturday ? After all, Saturday was named after the pagan god Saturn.
    • What about Sunday ? When the family say we should go to the Gurdwara today do you say No way....I will not acknowledge Sunday as a day to not go into work ? After all, Sunday was named after the pagan Sun god

    Life must be difficult Johnny outside India. I mean after you go back into work in the new year after deliberately ignoring xmas and your manager asks you for the beginning of the year forecast do you tell him its against your religion to believe or acknowledge the existence of January ? After all, January is named after the pagan god janus.

    • What about February ? After all, February is named after the pagan festival of februa.
    • March must be hard for you , especially when work colleagues ask you what month it is ? After all, march is named after the pagan war god
    • What about April when your tax assessment is due, do you tell the Inland Revenue to buzz off and respect your religious freedom ? After all, April is named after the pagan period of fertility (aprilus) and we Sikhs can't have anything to do with disgusting sexual baby-making things.
    • Do you ever acknowledge the fact that it is May ? After all, May is named after the female diety for growth (increase)
    • In June, when everyone is starting to feel warm....discard the coats and put a t shirt on, do you put the heating on and refuse to join in ? After all, it is named after the wife of the pagan god jupitas.
    • The existence of July must be particularly hard for you, given your aversion to xmas, especially when your kids ask you what month it is ? After all, it is named after julius ceaser and he's about as pagan as you can get.
    • August ? After all, its another one named after a pagan roman emporer. Oooh, its getting hard now isn't it ? Surely there must be a day or month in the west we western born Sikhs can join in with?

    I could go on but I won't.

    As I said before, this is 2015. Not 1949.

    in 2015 in the western world where we and our kids were born, only elderly ladies of the Women's Institute and misguided people on sikh forums still equate xmas with christianity. About the same number that still refuse to say what day of the week it is because it has pagan origins.

    The 99% of us, are as happy for our kids to open xmas presents and put a stocking up ready for santa as we are to say pagan words such as 'Monday' or 'wedding ring'.

    But....even if its jolly old Santa that you disaprove of....Well, perhaps you should remember that good olde St. Nick was a brown skinned, black haired Turk with a long black beard. That might help in your transition into the year and decade we're living in.

  22. this topic has been discussed almost every year. General consensus is that no Sikhs shouldn't celebrate christmas it has nothing to do with us.

    No. Its been discussed every year and I think general consensus is that we come across as backward puritans stuck in a 1940's timewarp because....since the 1940's, nobody else in the western world bar a tiny proportion of evangelicals even associate 'Jesus' or 'Christianity' with this 'fun-time for the kids and family with Santa' time of year.

    OK, there's still an element of 'christianity' in America but the rest of the western world don't even think 'jesus' or religion has anything to do with this special Santa time of the year.....until YOU people mention it.

  23. There are such families in which one son and his wife, kids, grandkids are Sikhs and another son and his family are Hindus.

    As much as I have observed it is such families who are likely to call Sikhs Hindus or call themselves also Hindus and perform Hindu rituals as well. Due to such families Sikhs are called Hindus by many Hindus also.

    Where did such families come from? Such families are most confusing. Some of them have say, an Amritdhari sister and jija but cousin will be a Hindu with cut bair, Hindu name and all. Or mother in law, father in law will be Hindu but only husband will be Sikh.

    Men, women and kids of such families usually do Hindu rituals.

    How did such families come about? What is their history and origin?

    If one son became a Sikh then shouldn't he and his wife, kids, grandkids have always followed Sikhi properly instead of looking like Sikhs, sporting Sikh names yet still doing idol worship, pujas, vrats, kanjakan etc alongside? What's the point of "becoming" Sikh like this?

    It is exactly such families that are used to defend interfaith marriages or claim Sikhs are sect of Hinduism or Hindus and Sikhs are same thing.

    Kids of such families also look like confused lot and rather closer to Hindus. They might be wearing turban but know mantras more than Gurbani! And worship like Hindus (worship of Guru Granth Sahib is no different from idol worship for them, they just keep lighting diyas, incense around SGGS, put flowers or other chadhawa in front of it but rarely understand Gurbani nor do Nitnem regularly!)

    These have been bane of Sikh community IMO and never bothered about Gurbani or Maryada (though rare exceptions might have been there).

    How did such families come about? What is their history and origin?

    Well, they are the khatri and arora sikhs, i,e the urban Sikhs that run big business. To understand how it all came about one needs to first of all go right back and consult Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji because Guru ji mentions how the way they go wichever way the money is was a problem even back then. Guru ji says :

    "the kshatriyas (khatris) have abandoned their religion and embraced a foreign language". What Guru ji is saying there is that they were gladly embracing Islam just to keep hold of their money and wealth. Fast forward to the time of Maharaja Ranjit Singh and the Sikh Empire and you find that the Hindu khatris were doing exactly the same thing again in order to gain wealth. Because Sikhs were the power, controlling a vast empire, Hindu khatris started deliberately making one of their sons a Sikh so that he could gain high positions in government and thus earn the family vast money. People like the former Indian prime minister Manmohan Singh and the famous Indian author Kushwant Singh of banta santa fame are prime examples of these families. So, you see, the beard and turban for them was adopted not so much for love of the religion but more as a way of adding to their wealth. Underneath though, they have always simply been Hindus with turbans.

    Fast forward to 1947 and partition and we find the same thing being repeated again. Rather than remaining true to their religion the richer ones were more keen to hang on to their wealth and money and so decided to remain in Lahore by discarding Sikhism or Hinduism and embracing Islam. They still exist in Pakistan and are known as the big mega-rich industralist familes. What they did though is change their 'caste' name to 'sheikh' or khoj.

    Anyway, you asked who they are and their origins so now you know.

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