DTF

Daljit Ji when 99% of the population in the UK and Canada are non-Sikhs (with Sikhs being an even smaller minority in other diaspora countries) it's inevitable that year after year these types of marriages will increase. The young bride of previously Hindu background has by virtue of having Anand Karaj now become Sikh so why not wish this couple well? Why not engage with the young couple to increase their links to Sikhi rather than alienate them? The question is how do we turn something that could be a demographic time bomb for the community into something that links more and more ordinary people to Sikhi through this. Such marriages are increasing year after year which is an unstoppable reality that can't be ignored by blocking the odd marriage or two and the couples in all cases then severing all links with Sikhi for their future children (who should not be denied Sikhi regardless of what we might think of the parents). The consequences of exclusion would be that the Sikh Diaspora population would be less than half its current size within a generation. Hundreds of thousands of new Sikhs came into Sikhi during the Singh Sabha era as a result of free Anand Karaj sewa that was free from the discrimination of so-called self-styled "high caste" Muslim Qureshi caste Qazi's and Brahmin Hindu Pandits. Those were the days when the Sikh population was rising sharply. We need to get to grips with reality that a 1% minority will always have members marrying those of other backgrounds. It's all ultimately about ensuring that the children of such marriages have strong links to their Gurdwara and feel an integral part of the Sikh Panth. This is exactly what happened a hundred years ago when even both spouses comprising non-Sikh couples were given the blessing of Anand Karaj at local Akali Singh Sabha Lehar Gurdwara's and I'm Sikh today as a direct result of this historical reality. Instead of focussing on this issue, I would humbly request you that it's more important that with your efforts we unite the Panth into having only a single saanjha united Sangat Gurdwara in every pind in Punjab and locality in the West. When matrimonial apartheid in biraderi terms has not been stamped out 316years after 1699, expect an ever higher number of so-called mixed marriages to occur in the future if we do nothing to tackle this anti-Gurmat discrimination.

Your argument that people are born into a certain race or caste due to karma is false and against Gurmat and Sikhi. Given that there is an obvious correlation between the darker one's skin and the greater that person's level of suffering worldwide on a per capita basis, you are effectively arguing that racism is justified (as a supposed result of it's karmic justification) and this same lie is used in Manu Smriti to oppress dalits. Sikhi is the only force that can liberate the dalits and other oppressed people of India and the Sikh Panth does have a responsibility to free not only itself but also others throughout India (and globally) from unjust rule (in the fullness of time as our demographic numbers will allow). Karma in Sanskrit refers to the actions of "this" life as opposed to supposed previous lives as you infer. Where did the first generations of humans get their karma from? How will the final generation of humans live out their accrued karma when our Sun disintegrates (or sooner)?

KKBK Ji you are correct that east Punjab is around 1.5% of the land area of India (and Majha and Malwa the majority Sikh area's are around 1% of the land mass of India). Also you are correct that since 1980 the vast majority of new industry in the two states of Haryana and Punjab has been located in Haryana due to it's greater political stability, it's Hindu Jatt demographics and it's proximity to Delhi. It is obvious that America, Canada, Russia, Australia would support Delhi with grain shipments to gain beneficial trade deals at the expense of justice for Sikhs in the event of a unilateral food exports embargo from Punjab. It's true that we the Sikh Panth are far weaker than we were in 1984 whilst Delhi has become immeasurably stronger numerically, economically and militarily in the meantime. The only solution to this (as armed conflict is simply not a viable option) is for us to address the issues facing us in terms of drugs, alcohol, female infanticide, caste apartheid, illiteracy, cancer and poverty immediately and thereafter grow numbers of the Sikh Panth by including as many sehajdhari non-Punjabi's within the umbrella of the Sikh Panth. Brahmins, for example are 50 million in India today (less than 4% of the population) and if we seek to broaden the population base of the Sikh Panth by re-integrating Kabirpanthi, Ravidassia, Sanatani Sikhs and others we can have a 100million Sikh population within our lifetime which would be in a far stronger position to protect it's own interests in Punjab but also push to project Sarbat da Bhala throughout India (as a larger version of Khalistan) bearing in mind that we were a 10% minority at best during Ranjit Singh's reign in Punjab. Preeet at no point has Jagsaw argued for any violence. Sikhs are the only people in the world who have the tolerant spirit to have witnessed the desecration of our holy places and Genocide of our people but have still treated the non-Sikh minority in Punjab (which soon looks like becoming a majority by 2021) with respect. Besides the so-called Hindu's of Punjab (most of whom attend Gurdwara's) only need a bit more better engagement from us as Sikhs to realise that they are in fact sehajdhari Sikhs. I do agree that Jagsaw's blanket demonization of Hindu's as a supposedly homogenous oppressing mass of 1 billion people is highly counterproductive to Sikh interests going forward, when all oppressed Indians should be helped to realise that they are natural born Sikhs (if only we as Sikhs encourage them as opposed to alienating them). Guru Sahib advocates kul nash - Sikhs have no caste and no race but simply are members of the one human race.

Kira Ji, during Benazir Bhutto's leadership of Pakistan in the 1980's these two terrorist states known as India and Pakistan had a very cosy reciprocal relationship which meant that Pakistan would provide intelligence against Sikhs in Punjab from Pakistani agents and spies inside east Punjab whilst India would do the same for Pakistan in relation to the MQM (Urdu speaking Muhajirs from India living in Pakistan since 1947). Security experts have revealed that India's rationale behind this was that they considered only the Baluchistan, Pakhtunwa and Sindh independence movements to have critical mass (whilst the MQM's only real stronghold was Karachi). Similarly, by Pakistan assisting Congress in their Genocide against Sikhs, Pakistan has enabled itself to reap billions of dollars of profit from the human misery of millions of Sikh drug addicts and their families in the last three decades whilst allowing Pakistan to focus their resources upon annexing Kashmir - which to all intents and purposes they have seemingly now given up on as well (except for occasional skirmishes when politically convenient).

Kira Ji, Pakistan's political elite would secretly be delighted if Khalistan came into being. However, in real terms, they realise an individual Indian state becoming independent would make the independence movements for Baluchistan, Pakhtunwa and Sindh unstoppable (without the enemy of India to hold Pakistan together). Hence, why Pakistan actively co-operates with Delhi to flood east Punjab with drugs in order to financially profit from the human misery of million of Sikhs. Pakistan actively assisted Delhi against Sikhs in the 1980's as we all now know. Note how Pakistan does not do the same in Kashmir and strictly enforces a drugs export ban to (Indian) Kashmir.

An independent nation in the areas of Majha and Malwa (called Khalistan or Punjab) can certainly be viable (though I do not advocate that we should prioritise it as an issue given more immediate problems and dangers facing the Sikh Panth that we need to urgently address first). A rather big impediment to such a nation state existing any time soon is that Sikhs are currently on course to be less than 50% of the east Punjab population by the time of 2021 census. Doaba as we all know (and where many of us have links to) is already an area where Sikhs are in a minority and where a referendum would currently result in a rejection of Khalistan for the Doaba area itself. Non-Sikhs comprising Hindu's, Muslims, Christians, Jains and Buddhists are currently unanimously against the concept of Khalistan. Sikhs falling into the GOI's false classification of so-called scheduled and backward castes and dera followers are also overwhelmingly unsupportive of Khalistan. So-called Jat Sikhs who nowadays only comprise 25% of the east Punjab population (and now also included in the backward castes category) are also pretty equally divided between Badal Dal and Congress camps currently, neither of which advocate Khalistan. Urban Sikhs have always been against Khalistan for business reasons. Thus in all demographic segments a minority support Khalistan. The level of support in east Punjab for the political parties that democratically seek for a peaceful transition to Khalistan was less than even 1% in the recent 2014 elections (garnering only 1% of Sikh votes in Punjab itself). So long as both Pakistan and India remain as undivided centralised nation states the prospects for Khalistan coming into being are very slim, as the major powers favour a united India as a counterweight to China and China itself cares little for the Sikhs (given it's own illegal annexation of Tibet) so long as it can sell its goods to a 1.3 billion population market. Even Pakistan is happily co-operating with India against Sikhs realising that independence movements inside Pakistan such as in Baluchistan, Pakhtunwa and Sindh would only grow unstoppably stronger as a result. Therefore, if we are serious about Khalsa Raj actually being a global phenomenon (or at least capable of turning all of present day India into Khalsa Raj) we need to prioritise bigger immediate issues currently afflicting the Panth in the form of drugs, alcohol, infanticide, caste apartheid, illiteracy, cancer and poverty. As the concept of Khalistan in Majha and Malwa is de facto acting as a distraction from allowing us to start addressing bigger, more immediate problems. Until 99% of Sikhs do not refrain from drugs and acohol the prospects for Khalistan are slim due to the Pakistani and Indian drugs flooding Punjab. Instead of chanting slogans for Khalistan we need to actively and physically choke the smuggling of drugs into Punjab from Pakistan and the subsequent sale of those drugs by local dealers. Allowing drug sales to be conducted unchecked should be seen as one of the biggest beadbi's of what Guru Sahib teach us. (We should also realise that saroops being burnt - when our Guru as Shabad Bani is indestructible - is simply a ploy of our enemies to distract our efforts from addressing the bigger issues of drugs, alcohol, female infanticide, caste apartheid, illiteracy, cancer and poverty). Until caste divisions are addressed and matrimonial apartheid within the Qaum are stamped out, there is no real prospect for Khalistan any time soon. A people that don't even pray together in united Gurdwara's pose zero threat to the enemies of Sikhs. Only when each pind and locality has a single united Sangat Gurdwara and matrimonial apartheid is uprooted from our mindset can Khalsa Raj (whether in Majha and Malwa only ... or across all of India as an enlarged version of Khalistan ... or globally) ever begin to be envisioned. Female infanticide results in our demographic oblivion. If we don't realise the importance of Sikh numbers being as large as possible (and accepting all those who have ever been to a Gurdwara as fellow Sikhs) we should at least realise that most minority populations have been unsuccessful at attempts to gain independence if they lack even local area's of predominance in poulation terms. Thus, if we are less than 50% of the east Punjab population by the time of 2021 census via the wholesale removal of all erstwhile Mazhabi and Ravidassia Sikhs from the Panth and their re-classification into Balmiki Mandir and Dera Ballan stooges by our enemies (aided and abetted by our inaction and indifference) then we only have our own ignorance and betrayal of Gurmat and Sikhi (in relation to the abolition of caste apartheid) to blame. Only when literacy rates within the Panth rise close to 100% will we have a populace that is academically able to distinguish what is in it's best democratic interests (as opposed to believing in media lies which malign the Sikh ethos of Sarbat da Bhala - the welfare of all). Poverty and cancer are social issues that we from the Diaspora need to change ourselves by greater investment in Punjab to allow jobs growth and increase healthcare provision as we can hardly expect the poor, the weak and the illiterate to meaningfully campaign for democratic change in their own interests given their daily struggles to survive in the face of a Delhi regime which is backed and supported by America, Russia, the UK, France, Canada etc who are all more focussed on trade deals with a 1.3 billion population country (rather than a 1.8% minority within India which is on course to fall below 50% of the Punjab population by 2021 if we ignore the more immediate problems facing us).

Preeet, patits can freely be degraded. True Amritdhari's are never degraded but only respected. A person who ceases to be Amritdhari because of immoral actions (a "patit") can be condemned for evil actions. I agree that we should not accord the label of Amritdhari to those who are terrorists targetting the innocent or rapists.

Balkaar Ji, Ajit Poohla the nang was no Amritdhari (but a patit by virtue of his actions). A human being can only be considered a true Amritdhari by virtue of righteous actions towards Sarbat da Bhala. The concept (stated by Preeet) that anybody who claims to be Amritdhari is a bhagat is utterly ridiculous. As Guru Sahib repeatedly warn us to assess a human being on the basis of their actions towards Sarbat da Bhala (rather than simply their spoken words or their external appearance).

KKBK Ji, truly good Amritdhari Gursikhs never hesitate to condemn terrorism against innocents. The fundamental guiding ethos of the Khalsa Panth is Sarbat da Bhala. http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/77072-air-india-flight-182-bombing/

Balkaar Bhai Sahib Ji the motive was not just to incriminate Sikhs in a false flag operation. But furthermore to provide cover (in public relations terms) for the Genocide of Sikhs that Congress were engaged in.

The bombing was done by RAW for the Indian Government. It was only falsely claimed by non-Sikh (outwardly kesdhari) agents working for the GOI in order to malign Sikhs. http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/77072-air-india-flight-182-bombing/

Well if we have money to burn enriching those Muslims that despise us, why can't we use that money to uplift our own people who are suffering from the menaces of alcohol, drugs, infanticide, illiteracy, biraderi, cancer and poverty. Guru Sahib went there to propogate truth (Gurmat) and educate folks that Islam's ideology was false in relations to various things like circumcision, slavery of human beings, rape of female non-muslims and so on. Guru Sahib did not go there like most tourists do to get a suntan, to do some retail therapy and waste money enriching the very people that despise us as kaffirs, whilst our own Sikh Panth has millions who are suffering from the menaces of alcohol, drugs, infanticide, illiteracy, biraderi, cancer and poverty.

None Exactly Paji and the UK is the second main bastion of the Sikh Diaspora with almost 1% of the English population being Sikh. So for the Sikh community to be represented by zero MP's whilst the Pakistani's (with double our population) have eleven MP's and even the Bangladeshi's (whose population is broadly comparable to our own) have three female MP's now should be a huge wake up call. Instead of fighting amongst ourselves over pathetic minor theological differences or biraderi issues we need to unite and use this moment to push the agenda for united Sangat single Gurdwara's in every town and an end of biraderi and matrimonial apartheid. Only when we are cohesive and united community will we be able to get the at least six MP's in 650 our population merits.

@MisterSingh, i hear you Paji. I think your point about things getting progressively worse year after year is exactly what it's all about. As the same applies in relation to the problems of alcohol, drugs, infanticide, illiteracy, biraderi, cancer and poverty as all those social indices have worsened since 1984. So we can either throw in the towel or we can look at every single problem as an opportunity to make the Sikh Panth stronger going forward. So more and more people marry those of other backgrounds which is inevitable for a 1% minority. So instead of alienation and digging our own demographic grave we should look at that as an opportunity that with the right interaction and engagement with the couple from Sangat and their local Gurdwara we can build a bigger, stronger and more diverse Sikh Panth going forwards in the future and realising the importance of Sikh population numbers by looking for every reason to include people in the Panth rather than to exclude them (as our opponents want us to do). This also has huge relevance in the importance of defining sehajdhari's of non-Punjabi (and now commonly called HP) backgrounds who bow down before Maharaj as in fact being Sikhs as they were prior to 1950 (for example Kabirpanthi's, Sanatani's and Jatavs as easy examples numbering close to 70million "Sikhs" that the Nehru-Gandhi Empire cleverly got defined away as non-Sikhs in 1950 due to their sehajdhari background ... as our opponents feared what a 100million strong Sikh Panth population could achieve for equality in society and an end to their corruption). Sikhi is Universal and an unopposable Truth as everything stands up to scrutiny. So the answers are straight there. Alcohol - we need to make it uncool in Punjabi culture, restrict the sale of it, increase alcohol detox centres and stop all the new outlets. Badal Dal won't do that with Majithia's hand in the distribution so come 2017 AAP might end it. Drugs - We need a Khalsa Fauj on the border stopping drugs coming in from Pakistan and also vigilante forces in every village to prevent the wholesale proliferation of drugs. If people have no meaning or motivation in their life (junkies) there is so much seva they can be directed towards in order to change their perspective a little. We won't succeed in every case but we can do our best. Infanticide is a self-inflicted Genocide that is far worse than occasional outbreaks of Beadbi (which is a ruse by our opponents so that we take our eyes off the real problems that urgently need addressing). We are all too ready to fight each other at the drop of a hat so why can't we easily unite to put the abortion clinics out of business (vigilante style). Biraderi and apartheid run Gurdwara's are a no brainer. We should have only one single united Gurdwara in every pind and locality in India and the West. United we stand and divided we fall. Prior to the 2021 census we need to make this a reality (otherwise Sikhs could fall below 50% in Punjab) and we in the West need to lead the way by attacking biraderi discrimination and matrimonial apartheid if we genuinely want to see United Sangat Gurdwara's everywhere. Illiteracy, cancer and poverty are social problems that primarily need our Sangat money poured in to in order to make a difference. The more schools, hospitals and social programs we can voluntarily create the stronger the Panth will be. So instead of worrying about how much gold we are going to adorn on some domed roof or how many millions we are going to extravagantly spend on new buildings we need to direct a greater proportion of the funds towards education of children. Sikhi comes from the heart rather than based upon how flash some building is. To that effect I would encourage anybody who agrees to support and other organisations making a real difference: http://barusahib.org/

Big fan of your posts Paji but in this instance, just wanted to put forward a slight counterpoint. 1 = There is no hypocrisy from us (as Sikhs) as Islam espouses the inferiority and maltreatment of women whereas Sikhi emphasises total gender equality and respect for women as basics. Thus it is clear to me why one way traffic in relation to this is not hypocritical. 2 = The so-called Muslim girls become Sikh upon bowing down before Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj and are in fact being libereated from one man's ideology which thought that wife beating, sexual enslavement, marital rape are all ok (in Islam). 3 = Exactly, that's what it's all about Paji. The exclusion method guarantees the demographic oblivion of Sikh Diaspora populations within a couple of generations. But via engagement and interaction with other Sangat, the Sikh population can flourish as opposed to declining. 4 = That's a thing for individual guys but a male who is made to realise what Sikhi stands for would want the same for his children. I think one of the key ways to do this is by making sure Sikh children are involved in mandatory voluntary seva for the wider community as once they get it about "Sarbat da Bhala" (the welfare of all humanity) they would understand how vital it is that Sikhi flourishes as the more Sikhs, the more we can do collectively to make the world a better place. 5+6 = Agree with why you feel that but via the current method proposed by some (exclusion and alienation of the couple) it guarantees that they and their children and consequent future generations cut all links from Sikhi completely resulting in a smaller and smaller Sikh Diaspora population year after year. The other viewpoint as seen in the heyday of the Singh Sabha era resulted in rapid growth of the Sikh community. So you would often have two erstwhile non-Sikhs being blessed with Anand Karaj and consequently becoming Sikhs themselves (for anyone that bows down before Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj is a Sikh by puratan definition) and raising their kids as Sikhs as well with the interaction, love and engagement from the Sangat being critical to the whole process. My family were non-Sikhs until the 20th century and I'm Sikh today as a consequence of the far sighted thinking that Giani Ditt Singh Ji initiated through the Singh Sabha movement. When I hear about Gurdwara lockouts and alienation of couples where the spouse is from a non-Muslim background I find it very upsetting that we are not accepting reality (and thinking of how best to deal with it for the Panth's positive benefit now and in the future) but retreat to a position which actually will result in the obvious decrease of our population in years to come. To me it's a no-brainer.

Which country are you in brother? As this is clearly against your human rights vis a vis freedom of religion. Don't give in to your parents. Young brother, please go to your local Gudrwara and advise Panj Pyare of what your parent's intention. In order that Panj Pyare or respected Sikhs locally may hold dialogue with your parents. CALL: 0845 644 0704 (UK) MOBILE: 07999 004 363 (UK) EMAIL: info@sikhhelpline.com WEBSITE: www.sikhhelpline.com You are welcome to private message me or other forum Sangat local to you if we can be of any assistance. Good luck.

I wish your family and children well but I hope that your wife is teaching them not to judge a book by its outer cover but upon the basis of its contents. Similarly, I hope that your wife is teaching your children to respect those whose deeds are better more, rather than those who just look good. Sikhs should never insult any innocent human as "ugly" imho.

Well you know why don't you Johnny Paji? For the economic revenue that brings the Pakistani's from naive Sikhs. Instead of wasting money on pilgrimages (as opposed by Gurbani and Guru Sahib) we should instead use the money wasted on these pilgrimages to Pakistan and Hindutva hotbeds like snow-covered Uttarakhand to first focus on bigger issues like attacking the alcohol, drugs, infanticide, biraderi, illiteracy, cancer, poverty and conversion problems afflicting east Punjab in Majha, Malwa and Doaba. When Khalsa Raj is over Sri Nankana Sahib in the future ... khule darshan ohda vi ho sakde ne Bhai Sahib.

So when Daya Ram from present day Pakistan, Dharam Dass from Hastinapur near Delhi, Himmat Rai from Orissa, Mokham Chand from Gujarat and Sahib Shah from Dravidian south India all did darshan of Guru Sahib in Vaisakhi 1699 you would have concluded that you "don't think they will go into Sikhi" based upon their names ... Bhai Daya Singh Ji, Bhai Dharam Singh Ji, Bhai Himmat Singh Ji, Bhai Mokham Singh Ji and Bhai Sahib Singh Ji emphatically proved that name, caste, race etc all count for nothing and it boils down to one's faith in Guru Sahib. None of us can take that away from anyone. Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj is Jagat Guru.

D = cool water this is a calculated move by the RSS in order to stop Kashmiri pandits converting en masse to Sikhi. Look into the family backgrounds of shaheeds like Bhai Mati Dass Ji and Bhai Sati Dass Ji alongside Dhan Dhan Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji Maharaj's supreme sacrifice. Mehtab Singh of this very forum is an inspirational Khalsa now who was former Hindu of Punjabi Brahmin ancestry. Our response to this calculated action by the RSS should not be to condemn all brahmins en masse but to re-double our parchaar efforts to Hindu Brahmins as history ought to provide evidence to them that Sikhi is the truth. I personally know of former Punjabi Brahmins who are know brilliant Amritdhari Sikhs today and those sehajdhari Sikhs supposedly called hindu brahmins should be recognised as the Sikhs if they attend Gurdwara. D = Johnny Paji the attackers at Dansiwal were not of chamar ancestry. They were Congress goons ignorant of the fact that Dhan Dhan (Gur) Ravidas Ji Maharaj shloks are within Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj (in contrast to Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj's contribution). Such beadbi will continue unabated as the aim of our Hindutva opponents is to classify all those of a leatherworking ancestry as non-Sikhs by the 2021 census in Punjab. If our opponents are successful in this aim Sikhs will be lower than 50% of the Punjab population in 2021 as a consequence. As you are aware, Sikhs are already a minority in Doaba. As a Gursikh who I sincerely respect, I would humbly request that you spread awareness that only Sikhs are true Ravidassia's as only we Sikhs follow Dhan Dhan Baba Ravidas Ji Maharaj's teachings and that our opponents do such acts of beadbi to foment anti-chamar sentiment (as a means of pushing the demographic out of the Sikh Panth by 2021) thereby allowing new generations to forget that Shaheed Bhai Sangat Singh Ji (a Gurmukh hated and despised by our Dera Ballan Hindutva opponents) actually led the Sikh Fauj at Guru Sahib's request and that Giani Ditt Singh Ji is also vehemently hated by Dera Ballan for being the brains behind the Akali Singh Sabha revolution. Confrontation with our Hindutva opponents paid goons is what needs to be avoided at all costs (as that is what our opponents want to portray Sikhs as enemies of the stated demographic) in cases such as Dansiwal and instead we need to re-double our Gurdwara security in readiness and more importantly parchaar efforts emphasising Dhan Dhan Baba Ravidas Ji Maharaj's opposition to Dera Ballan's casteist apartheid lies and the contributions of great members of the Khalsa Panth such as Shaheed Bhai Sangat Singh Ji and Giani Ditti Singh Ji to Sikhi. D = I agree that all Sikhs should be tyaar bar tyaar and carry firearms wherever possible both to defend ourselves and others. Given the ancestry of great Sikh shaheeds like Bhai Mati Dass Ji and Bhai Sati Dass Ji we should refrain from generalising our Hindutva opponents as bahmans as this is exactly what our opponents want - create hatred between segments of the community in order to stop the wholscale conversion en masse of many of leatherworking or brahmin ancestries to Sikhi (since Sikhi is the Truth). D = The Rajasthan case was a classic example. Instead of having three Gursikhs actively devoting their lifetimes to fighting the plagues of alcolhol, drugs, infanticide, biraderi, cancer, illiteracy and poverty afflicting our Panth they get to rot in jail for the rest of their lives. The pakhandi cult get a shaheed. Conclusion our opponents succeed in their objectives and we failed. Agree with you regarding certain Sikhs treating the exhortation that we should carry Panj shastar to protect the weak as an excuse to carry their version of dhaage.

Don't worry what other people consider you brother. Focus on what you can do to help those in your community and others in Surrey. The key thing is that young children coming up in Surrey look towards academic achievement and social service as key goals rather than emulating gangbangers who destroy innocent people's lives. If you might have been involved in crime before you might be in an even better position to mentor youngsters away from a life of crime, as compared to others who do not understand the gangbanger mentality. You would only be considered a hypocrite if you were actively participating in crime and drug profits today.

D = There was no retaliation from Sikhs. The Muslims carried out a campaign of systematic Genocide against Sikhs. 20% of the Sikh population was killed by the Muslims in Pakistan. So imagine 1.5 billion people being killed tomorrow and that's the extent of the suffering that Sikhs endured in 1947 at the hands of Pakistani Punjabi Muslims. In West Punjab the percentage population of Sikhs did not have a critical mass to allow Sikhs to defend themselves. However, in the districts of Majha, Doaba and Malwa fortunately the Sikhs comprised at least 30% of the population of those districts (that currently comprise Punjab). Now when the Muslims tried to ethnically cleanse Sikhs out of Majha, Malwa and Doaba they simply met their match because our population numbers in those districts were broadly comparable to the Muslims. Sikhs fought for their lives because the so-called high caste Muslim communities (Muslim Jatts, Muslim Rajputs etc) were intent on annexing Amritsar, Jalandhar, Ludhiana etc into Pakistan via the 1947 Genocide of Sikhs. D = Nonsense Jagsaw. I find it amazing that you are repeating fictitious claims by Pakistani polemicists. I think what you need to grasp is that if Sikhs did not stand their ground (where our numbers permitted) in the districts of Majha, Malwa and Doaba then east Punjab as we know it today would have been in Pakistan with millions of innocent Sikhs consequently killed by genocidal Punjabi Muslims. D = This an academic lie perpetrated against Sikhs. The actual reality is that Punjabi Muslims were intent upon the annexation of present day east Punjab into Pakistan via the ethnic cleansing and massacre of innocent Sikhs. This is clearly seen by what the Muslims started in Amritsar and elsewhere in order to include Amritsar (and present day east Punjab) into Pakistan. What the Muslims failed to realise was that Sikhs will never surrender or retreat where we have equal numbers or ammunition supply to the enemy. If Sikhs had not bravely defended Sikh Panth from the Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs in 1947, most members of this website would not be alive to see today. As the Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs was over 20 times worse in per capita terms than what the wretched Nehru-Gandhi Empire managed to inflict.