MisterrSingh

I've covered all your arguments in both posts of mine. I can't spell it out for you.

P.s I am not mangling anything. anything mangling is in your own head not mine.

You don't even know what arguments you're trying to make. You're just throwing stuff at a wall and hoping some of it sticks. There's absolutely no coherence and logic in your opinions that can be followed from A to B by any sane person.

You're jumping from issues of Sikh autonomy, to levels of religious adherence, to the subject of Islamist expansionism.

Islam is a political movement masquerading as a religion. That's all that needs to be said about why it's in such "great" shape. What it can't achieve through social and political means, it forces through via the fear of destruction and hellfire at the hands of its bloodthirsty followers and eventual wrath of their "God."

There's NOTHING to learn from Muslims on how to improve our situation. Controlling followers through deceit and fear is not an example to be emulated. How many of these godless 5ulleh do you envisage entering Sachkhand? How many? Because ultimately that's what being a person of God should be about: reuniting with the One. Everything else, as distracting and as important as it may seem to us in the hullabaloo of human existence, is irrelevant.

Also a good point which i have asked myself on a number of occasions. If they really cared, why would they focus their efforts on encouraging me to do what they do? I have even said to them do not let me sniff, no matter what and they still encourage it. If they really cared they wouldn't let me. Especially with me being the youngest. i think the reason why I fall for it though is because I have noone else, my cousins are the closest to 'friends' that i have and i guess they give me a sense of security. If i didn't have them, i would have noone at all

Trust me, it's another dark side to the Punjabi mentality that characterises some of our people; the glee - internally - at leading a gullible and easily-led close relative astray and then sitting back and watching him or her self destruct. You're being played.

As for loneliness, most people can't stomach it at all. Extreme doses are, of course, not healthy. We are social creatures after all. Yet, try to find the beauty in solitude. That doesn't mean become a shut-in, but live life on your terms and do NOT jump up and follow someone like an attention-starved puppy when someone calls for you.

You're 26, bro, you're in "man" territory now, yet your acts are indicative of someone rebelling and being led astray in their teens. The money aspect of it should also be a worry. You might be wealthy, but blowing coke up your nose is a complete waste of money. Settling down to do your Rehraas Sahib fresh from a drinks and drugs bender from the previous day is a little disingenuous.

Agree with genie. Unless there's a complete and unexpected breakdown of the status quo and the abandoning of the narratives that have been constructed and are being adhered to in the western world, there will never be a chance of Sikhs obtaining justice and even little chance of the Indians changing their policies towards us.

It was only a week ago I saw an article in The Guardian that said the British shouldn't be schmoozing the Chinese (when their leader made a state visit a few weeks back), instead the British should strengthen ties with India! This is in The Guardian, the supposed mouthpiece of the Left and its progressive social movements and politics! In the face of capitalistic tendencies pesky ideals such as human rights and justice pale into insignificance. That's something we will have to realise soon.

We - Sikhs - have nothing the west desire or need. Therefore they will not endanger diplomatic and trade relations with India over our pleas for justice. Forget about our loyalty during the World Wars; that's not relevant to the people in charge.

We're on our own. The only factor we have any control over is our individual adherence to Sikhi. But most people find that boring or irrelevant. Well, we're reaping the rewards of our flimsy faith in things that should be top of the list.

Meat issue aside, I'm surprised at the brazen defiance and lack of concern by the staff when they were confronted. The fact that a nearby customer felt bold enough to join in with the passive mockery occurring at the time is slightly insidious.

My eyes are open to such bakwaas, hence I don't live under any illusions about what people's erroneous opinions of me may be because of my Sikhi, but for a delicate minded individual who considers himself a loyal and law-abiding American, this little episode has probably sent him into a mild depression. It's a lesson worth learning; one that he'd be wisr to pass onto his children.

I've seen what charlie does to people long term. Be careful, or you'll end up schizio.

I get peer pressure (God knows the things I was tempted with growing up), but no-one is sticking coke up his nasaa unless he wants it, surely?

The fella's revealed a lot about his family situation too, unwittingly I imagine (I won't speculate), but I'd be wary of such so-called cousins. In my experience such people internally want to cause the downfall of a blood relation in order to be the "Last Man Standing" if you will, I.E. bragging rights, the ability to lorde it over the misfortune of close family relations, to make themselves look better in comparison.

You're being a mug, OP. With every snort of coke your cousins are besides themselves with joy at you messing up your life. Sort it out. Have a word with yourself and do it sharpish.

If the Afro people use it among themselves or in their songs, we don't have to ape them.

Get you away from this "crowd"? Aren't they your family?

The only person who can help you is you. Nobody can say "no" for you. Best to start practising in front of a mirror.

he is also politically astute which one may deem to be a 'sell out'..its not about josh bravado but intelligence which guides josh eventually leading to bravado..

If some of us truly believe being politically aware = a sellout then we haven't got a hope in hell, lol.

I suppose the statesmanship displayed by Guru Hargobind Sahib in his dealings with the butchers of his father, and Guru Gobind Singh's numerous dealings with the Mughals would've had them labelled as political sell-outs by the armchair brahmgianis that litter the modern Sikh faith.

What a joke.

BTW, inbetweener, I know you were making a point and not passing judgement. Thought I'd make that clear if it wasn't already so.

At least some have a conscience. A scientist! Puts the "men of God" to shame.

You guys do realise that the post of Jathedar has been politicised by Badal and as such a renegade or non-political person will never become Jathedar. The position has been tainted and is meaningless now, or for as long as the Badal dynasty sees fit to keep their oar in Sikh religious matters. Only a man of his choosing will ever occupy the post.

Surprising.

What about the innocent Hindus who were attacked by Sikhs? Should we label all Sikhs as blood thirsty killers just because of a minority of Sikhs. I actually witnessed this on a train in 1988 when I was caught up in an ambush on a train by Sikhs in Amritsar.

That stuff shouldn't have happened. Mob rule of a third world mentality. It's wrong.

The difference is the Indian government's systematic and concerted policy of silencing Sikh dissent and then attacking those who resist. That's the government's way of doing things. The smaller, social aspect of it, I.E. not knowing whether your Hindu neighbour is going to turn on you when times are tough is not the way of a civilised society. You must surely appreciate the difference.

Love Batman but this is inappropriate at a Gurdwara. Save it for the reception if you must. Don't drive up to a Gurdwara in the Batmobile. Embarrassing.

So, in many ways we're back to what we're discussing in that other thread about who we would want to see as the next jathedar of the Akal Takht. I don't want to put down any of the names on the poll of that thread but the issue of wealth and 'culture' is relevant because, for example, I've seen how they all travel, i.e in petrol eating environment destroying monster jeeps. They all profess to have gyan about Sikhi but none of them stop for one moment and wonder how their anti-environment actions are incompatible with what Sri Guru Har Rai taught us. That is not true gyan.

Exactly. Then the mind begins to wonder that if these so-called enlightened individuals are oblivious to understanding where they're going wrong on one particular issue (the unreasonably ostentatious petrol-guzzling vehicle being a prime example), what else could they be wrong about? Nah, it's "do as I say, don't do as I do" and I never thought such practices would creep into Sikhi and become the norm.

Would they do the same if the celebrity wasn't Punjabi? (I watch some t.v. and wouldn't just blindly do whatever the actors or actresses do, or the singers for that matter)

I've no idea. The reason people like this singer are targetted by Badal to drum up support amongst Punjabis is because of their huge profile amongst our people back home.

Why'd you think someone like Amitabh Bachchan is worshipped as a God (kind of) by the masses? It's their profile, their image, their wealth; all things that the average man aspires to, and the assumption is that whatever these kanjars say must be the truth. The gullible population falls for it constantly.

I honestly never heard of him, (I don't listen to Punjabi songs), why not he just admit he was wrong and ask for a punishment?

Because he'd never admit he was wrong, and more worringly, i doubt he even realises what he did - by supporting Badal - was an issue. There are no enforceable "rules" against what he did, but there are moral and ethical boundaries these kanjars like Mr. B (if that is his real name) cross time and time again in order to get their 30 pieces of silver.

You know Punjabi people, they turn weak at the knees and lose all sense of reason when a singer / actor / celebrity tells them to do something. It's that kind of insidious politicking through popular culture (through these celebrities that are bought by the politicians) that ultimately has a hugely negative affect on Punjab and Sikhs, and it needs to be stopped.

Well since your a vegetarian I assume you can ask for alternatives, but again I wouldn't really know since the official Maryada posted by the Akal Takht before it had massands says meat is allowed, (during the last real Jathedar Ranjit Singh it was still allowed).

So, the institution of the Akal Takhat is awesome when it passes edicts that chime with your worldview (and tastes), but when it contradicts them, those massands are rotten to the core, lol? ;)

You got in trouble on a similar topic last time, so why not sit this one out? You're hardly impartial on the subject.

Why's he dressed like a desi M. Bison in that first picture?

Like i said im not against the common ppl of india. I find all the different cultures fascinating and feel lucky to be able visit it ect. But you're absolutley right about the oppression we face and how the higher ups (not the common ppl) feel about us. Its a shame that such a great place is being ruled by such evil ppl.

I agree with you on the whole, but doesn't it disturb you that it was this so-called common man who, back in the 80's, was wound up into a bloodthirsty frenzy by a media baying for Sikh blood, that resulted in us getting raped and butchered? If that's all it takes for the average Indian to turn on their Sikh neighbour, then you have to begin to wonder what exactly is in the hearts of these people who we assume to be like us.

As Jagsaw pointed out last week, the Dinesh Khanna fella, who owns a large portion of the shops in Jalandhar that NRI's flock to and throw our hard earned money at, felt no fear or reluctance in insulting our Guru Sahibs and protesting Sikhs, yet he's more than happy to smile and take our money when we're buying his wares. Don't be fooled by the "average Indian" over there. We've allowed ourselves to be lulled into a false sense of security.

I agree with you about the wonderful fabric of cultures in India and all its history, but those facets are useless if we are considered to be an enemy only tolerated by the people when we tow the line. That's not freedom, bro.