MisterrSingh

Excellent idea. Sends a meaningful and powerful message that after the events of the past few weeks, we as Sikhs are not going to celebrate the usual festivities as if it's business as usual.

I love listening to Bhai Pinderpal Singh ji's kathas.

In my opinion he's the only one who's come close to filling the void left by Giani Sant Singh Maskeen.

I'm surprised that Christians in India are in the same boat as us, yet I'm equally curious that Indian Muslims are spared this ignominious fate (the original Hindustan Times article highlights that fact). http://www.hindustantimes.com/india/hindus-least-likely-to-be-jailed-sikhs-christians-most-likely/story-Og4PhnhYsPlVLJglKyeOKL.html

I'd have thought the adherents of the white man's religion would've been safer compared to us. It also seems, as the official figures show, the followers of the religion spread by the once mighty Mughals have, on the whole, little reason for complaint. Very interesting.

ok goldfish analogy aside what real political choices did /do Punjabis have now

Akali - hahahah no!

Congress- they are still washing their blood spattered hands

Bjp- also covered in blood but pretend that they had nothing to do with the continuous genocide

AAP- Bhagwant mann looked OK but then he turned up to Shaheedi smagam drunk today , Phoolka is gone

I've very little knowledge of Punjabi politics. I didn't know things were that bad.

I guess a 'None of the above' choice is out of the question, lol?

That aside, you must've heard of tales of Badal buying votes with something as simple as bottles of alcohol for the drunks and druggies that populate Punjab? In the face of such retrograde attitudes the task to turn the situation around is an uphill one.

Sikh soldiers did mutiny in 1984 but when you have the likes of Badal, Longowal, Tohra, Amarinder, KPS Gill, General Brar, SPGC, Akal Takht etc.etc. controlling Punjab & Sikhism as their own personal domain (Sikhism doesn't even get a look in) what point does a rebellion serve? Who are the real traitors of Sikhism?

I'd never call them traitors, hence the quote marks. But you know the Indian media will go overboard in their labelling of such personnel.

Regarding your point, who votes in these personalities time and time again? If the Punjabi electorate have the collective memory of a goldfish, then what to do? We can't vote out Badal and his chums.

Sikhs in Punjab don't need more leaders. What they need is to be disassociated from the mentality that is part and parcel of their existence.

Even the most educated and sophisticated native Punjabi suffers from many of the same neuroses and prejudices that people from the humblest backgrounds possess even those with little or no qualifications. It goes much deeper than that. Setting up an institution to churn out what are, in effect, more politician-type personalities is not the way.

ah you have been consulting Prof. Google ...balle tere

Had to be done!

There are some more effective non violent actions 5hat can be taken. If the Punjabi Hindus in the Cities oppose Sikhs then boycott their shops, go to Sikh ones. The pounds and dollars not being spent with them will convince them that they should get on with the Sikhs. An action that people abroad can take when they visit Punjab.

Exactly.

Just a general observation. Collective Sikh action is the key IMO. I mean, everyone singing from the same shabad sheet. Social agitation without spilling into self-destructive behaviour. But that requires organisation, patience, and vision. We have the heart and the never-say-die attitude, but those qualities I mentioned above are lacking in people back home, and without those there'll never be any genuinely serious or impactful change.

Talk the language of conciliation and inclusiveness to win over wary Sikhs and even non-Sikhs cowed into submissiveness and fear by the propaganda of the other side. Adopting a "us against the world" approach won't cut it in this day and age due to our relatively small numbers.

who'd you quote for that?

Wikipedia.

Plus, what has 31 years of protesting, raising awareness and all that in the Western world accomplished? Nothing, the only sort of justice Sikhs got was by the way AK 47's.

That won't work anymore, especially when the other side have weaponry that'll make our AK's resemble muskets compared to their arms. I don't know about you, but I'm sick and tired of being the valiant loser. Don't you want to win?

No, we need to look at certain events in Africa in the 70's and 80's, when foreigners sponsored by heavy duty financiers and military sources would undertake coups to destabilise and overthrow regimes and then install themselves as the law of that particular region.

I'm sorry, but western Sikh youth raised on a diet of Call of Duty and riddled with jathebandi politics have neither the stomach or the knowledge to undertake such a fight. Many talk the talk but stumble when it comes to the act of walking. Neither will a rag-tag bunch of native Punjabi guerilla forces with NO training ever be able to put the hurt in where it'll count. Instead, they will be overrun by the vastly better organised and trained Indians. Faith and bharosa has its place, but it needs to be backed up by muscle and skill. One without the other, as Sikhs who believe in both the spirituality and temporality of existence, simply cannot bear any fruit.

Protest is, for the time being, the best option. We need to stop imagining life is a movie where the good guys always win. Open any page of a history book and you'll see examples of the "baddies" not only winning but destroying the apparent good guys and wiping them from existence. That's just a fact of life. It's not fair but it happens.

The older I get the more I'm beginning to suspect the perfect opportunity we had of gaining our homeland was during the uprising of the 80's. That was our moment. But poor planning scuppered it. Instead, we were cornered and neutralised. We needed to act when India was still considered to be somewhat of a third world country. Now it has aspirations of being a world player and such countries do not break apart without huge civil unrest.

Theory of Mind is the ability to attribute mental states beliefs, intents, desires, pretending, knowledge, etc. to oneself and others and to understand that others have beliefs, desires, intentions, and perspectives that are different from one's own.

Deficits can occur in people with neurotoxicity due to alcohol abuse,

Who'd be a Punjab bride, ey? :/

So many dark and unspoken things occurring behind closed doors in our community.

Protests just aren't the true way of the Khalsa. Jugraj Singh acknowledges that it doesn't do anything to waste time like that.

The true Khalsa way won't work in this day and age unless you want to be locked up in prison for your entire life. I agree with Jugraj Singh, in terms of protests not achieving anything of worth. However, what they do cause is raising awareness that would otherwise be non-existent if everyone stayed at home.

Like it or not, we live in a world that is obsessed with surface gloss and less about actual substance. Protests may ultimately be meaningless in affecting change, but, for PR purposes I guess, are invaluable.

Was this opinion worth opening a new topic when there was already a thread available? You think you're too good to post in that other place, lol? ;)

Give it just one or two generations we are going to have major changes to the norms of marrying in this country - changes for the better in my eyes. I think the cousin marrying thing will die out, and more and more people of different castes will marry. It's already happening actually.

Even the middle-class, upwardly mobile Pakistani Muslims in the UK who are currently going off to uni (and possibly those who've recently graduated) are deadly against cousin marriages, I mean like vehemently so. Not sure whether they can do anything about it, lol. I think the situation might be different for their inner-city, working class counterparts in places like Bradford, etc.

I think it is unfair because some of our lot aren't above disgusting behaviour over caste themselves.

I think, like with police-on-black violence in the US, we are just seeing it more due to camera phones and social media - but it's always been there.

True. I had a feeling it might be due to the nature of these heinous acts being reported on a regular basis as opposed to them occurring unnoticed in previous years.

by the time they were studying, the foreign culture could've changed by that time.

Ways that have been in effect for hundreds or even thousands of years do not drastically alter over months or years. Popular moods and tastes change each year, but deep-rooted practices take many, many generations to change if nature is allowed to take its course.

Ranjeet Singh is correct. The observations the British made under the initial pretext of opening up trading channels on the sub-continent were undertaken so that future policy towards the natives could be shaped and implemented. They did the same in the Orient.

They'd have been fools to enter Punjab blind... which is, ironically, exactly what they did in 2003 in Iraq, and probably why that region is now in the mess that it is. But that was more of an American operation; Britain was yapping around American ankles like an eager puppy, and we all know American foreign policy cares very little for the post-operation clearing up. They're all about the shock and awe, lol.

It seems the quality of British personnel from the Raj compared to modern day Foreign Office personnel has gone backwards in a drastic way. But anyway that's another discussion.

Most reasonable people would argue that neither the Indians or the British were our friends, the slight caveat being that the British gave the impression they favoured us for the sole purpose of achieving their own ends through our co-operation. They did help us in quite a few ways, not because they liked us or our religion, but because it served their purposes to manipulate us into situations where we'd comply with their instructions.

There were no benevolent acts of favouritism on the part of the British. It was cold, hard politics. And it worked.

So, any benefits for Sikhs as a result of the British Raj were a result of Realpolitik, as opposed to their encouragement for us stemming from moral, ethical, and ideological reasons.

I won't speak for others, but I wasn't arguing for my Indian credentials. I just wasn't willing to hitch my ride to the incorrect view that the British were a wholly positive force for us. Being mistrustful and downright disdainful of British manoeuvring doesn't make me a dhoti-wearing Brahmin. Both parties are just as culpable for the miseries heaped upon us.

but isn't that what BB do but in a two step way ..mass then shred? that's the plus of vegan bb style gain hard muscle with minimal fat in the first place, main plus of following bibeki style of eating minimal poisons in diet.

Punjabi dalia made with milk is similar calories but since it's cracked wheat as opposed to flattened/steel cut oats slower release and less gluten release . Oats will spike Blood sugar hard and for longer - more damaging , more insulin released harder crash.

I think only the uber-dedicated put on mass then shred. Even then, apparently, trying to prolong a shredded state is unwise because it's tough to stay that way unless you're competing. Obviously, not many amateur lifters compete professionally, so for the average lifter it's either about aesthetics (showing off arms, chest, abs for ego, etc) or getting as big as possible for powerlifting purposes. I prefer the swimmer / gymnast type build. As long as the tidh isn't hanging over the belt line, or the chest isn't squidgy and soft, I'm happy. The cardio will sweat out the rest IMO, or it does for me at least.

Oh I see about the oats. I never knew that. I'll make some Punjabi dalia tomorrow and see how that goes down. Thanks bhenji.