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Harcharan Singh

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  1. Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa Vaheguru ji ki Fateh, Sangat Ji, could I please ask you, with all due respect, to not use such haumai, anger, rude language and anger in your discussion. This forum probably attracts people from all backgrounds who may be interested in Sikhi, your discussion skills will automatically tarnish their interest and give our dharam a bad image. More importantly, it is not nice to use the mouth Guru Ji blessed you with to read bani, which you obviously do, to speak such slanderish, offensive and filthy words. Take Guru Ji's example, and try and speak the truth with pyaar and intelligence (zafarnama), and more people will listen to you, maybe even those you are debating against. MODERATORS: Why do you allow such hatred on a Sikhi related forum, you need to tighten up your rules and make this respectable. Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj was a master linguist, he had the utmost respect and reverence for all languages (as did all our Guru's), and learnt and executed language to the hightest possible standard, no matter what language they used (Braj, Sanskrit, Persian..). Today, young Sikhs in the west do not even have a basic grasp of English, and are happy to speak as if they are hoodies. I humbly request you all to look to Guru Ji as a role model in all aspects of life, not just outwardly banaa and select rehits. With regards to the discussion topic, it is a matter of personal choice, there are obviously different interpretations, explain yours, and let others make up their own minds instead of enforcing your understanding on everyone else. Respected gursikh like those mentioned above have done a huge seva for the panth, and in my opinion should be treated as sangat (be it of high standard). Sangat and sant are interchangable words in my view. and people should not get hung up on definitions. Esteemed personalities like Baba Attar Singh Ji, were refered to collectively as Sant Ji by nearly all people during their time purely due to their commitment and seva to the panth. It is our duty to fnd the company of true sangat and learn and be influenced by them. But that sangat cannot be dictated to us by anyone, if someone does not wish to acknowledge a Gursikh as sangat, sant, mahapurkh..what have you, then that is their choice. Same way, no one has the right to disrespect a great Gursikh because other people look to them as a role model, we all look to people as role models alongside (or beneath) the greatest role models, Guru Sahibaan. I look to shaheed like Baba Gurbaksh Singh Ji as a role model, and don't see anything wrong with it, they were a prime living example of a ture child of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Other people have other role models the same way i.e. Bhai Randhir Singh Ji, Baba Attar singh Ji, Baba Nand Singh Ji, Baba Isher Singh Ji, Baba Puran Singh Ji etc. Ultimately if any role model or sangat we look up to is in contradictory to our Guru's teaching in any way, then we have a right to make intelligent comments to educate those that are mislead. Bhuk Chuk Maaf. Harcharan Singh
  2. Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa Vaheguru ji ki Fateh, Sangat Jeeo, Bhagat Ravidaas Ji was a Mahapurkh of the highest spriritual character and who's thoughts/teachings were revolutionary in their time. His Bani has been recorded by Guru Arjun Dev Ji for time immemorial. We do indeed bow to the living Guru, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and no other, and collectively bow to all it's light, including that of Bhagat Ji. But it is important to always remember, Sikhs historically regard only Guru Nanak dev Ji and his 9 forms as Guru, and now only regards Sri Guru Granth sahib Ji Maharaj as Guru. I see many people making brash statements on both sides, when there is no need. Before people can comment our holy Bhagats, they should learn about them, and learn why their bani has been included in Maharaj. The Ravidaasiya movement was most likely created as a result of undercover castism practiced in Sikhi and Gurdwara from the times of SGPC's inception, whereby not long after Sardaar Jassa Singh Ramgharia's great grand son (who was Secretary of the reform movement) was handed the keys to Harmandhir Sahib, the caste poisoned minority started their discrimination in the selction of Board members etc, namely by Singh Sabha Gurdwarai... The establishment of the Ramgharia and Ravidaasi Gurwara were primarily a result of this. Both of these communities are not innocent either, as they now take pride in their caste and identity and place over emphasis on respected personalities from their historic backgrounds i.e. Sardaar Jassa Singh Ji and Bhagat Ravidaas Ji. Remembering history of these great men is essential, but it should be done in a balanced fashion i.e. remembering all the other great Sikhs from numerous backgrounds also. A Gurdwara should be solely a place of worship with the Sri Guru Granth Sahib taking the seat of honour, not anyone else, no matter how highly respected. It is also culturally accepted to name Gurdwarai after historic events or people, so the names are not so offensive, but the culture within the Gurdwara must change. Sikh Rehat must come 1st and castism and pride in it, must be vanquished. Bhagat Ravidaas Ji fought against caste, setting up a Gurdwara just for one caste is not what his life and teachings were about. His Bani is beautiful, powerful and awakening... this shabad in Raag Bilaaval should be read by all: ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ ॥ bilaaval. Bilaaval: ਜਿਹ ਕੁਲ ਸਾਧੁ ਬੈਸਨੌ ਹੋਇ ॥ jih kul saaDh baisnou ho-ay. That family, into which a holy person is born, ਬਰਨ ਅਬਰਨ ਰੰਕੁ ਨਹੀ ਈਸੁਰੁ ਬਿਮਲ ਬਾਸੁ ਜਾਨੀਐ ਜਗਿ ਸੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ baran abran rank nahee eesur bimal baas jaanee-ai jag so-ay. ||1|| rahaa-o. whether of high or low social class, whether rich or poor, shall have its pure fragrance spread all over the world. ||1||Pause|| ਬ੍ਰਹਮਨ ਬੈਸ ਸੂਦ ਅਰੁ ਖ੍ਯ੍ਯਤ੍ਰੀ ਡੋਮ ਚੰਡਾਰ ਮਲੇਛ ਮਨ ਸੋਇ ॥ barahman bais sood ar kha-ytaree dom chandaar malaychh man so-ay. Whether he is a Brahmin, a Vaishya, a Soodra, or a Kh'shaatriya; whether he is a poet, an outcaste, or a filthy-minded person, ਹੋਇ ਪੁਨੀਤ ਭਗਵੰਤ ਭਜਨ ਤੇ ਆਪੁ ਤਾਰਿ ਤਾਰੇ ਕੁਲ ਦੋਇ ॥੧॥ ho-ay puneet bhagvant bhajan tay aap taar taaray kul do-ay. ||1|| he becomes pure, by meditating on the Lord God. He saves himself, and the families of both his parents. ||1|| ਧੰਨਿ ਸੁ ਗਾਉ ਧੰਨਿ ਸੋ ਠਾਉ ਧੰਨਿ ਪੁਨੀਤ ਕੁਟੰਬ ਸਭ ਲੋਇ ॥ Dhan so gaa-o Dhan so thaa-o Dhan puneet kutamb sabh lo-ay. Blessed is that village, and blessed is the place of his birth; blessed is his pure family, throughout all the worlds. ਜਿਨਿ ਪੀਆ ਸਾਰ ਰਸੁ ਤਜੇ ਆਨ ਰਸ ਹੋਇ ਰਸ ਮਗਨ ਡਾਰੇ ਬਿਖੁ ਖੋਇ ॥੨॥ jin pee-aa saar ras tajay aan ras ho-ay ras magan daaray bikh kho-ay. ||2|| One who drinks in the sublime essence abandons other tastes; intoxicated with this divine essence, he discards sin and corruption. ||2|| ਪੰਡਿਤ ਸੂਰ ਛਤ੍ਰਪਤਿ ਰਾਜਾ ਭਗਤ ਬਰਾਬਰਿ ਅਉਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ pandit soor chhatarpat raajaa bhagat baraabar a-or na ko-ay. Among the religious scholars, warriors and kings, there is no other equal to the Lord's devotee. ਜੈਸੇ ਪੁਰੈਨ ਪਾਤ ਰਹੈ ਜਲ ਸਮੀਪ ਭਨਿ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਜਨਮੇ ਜਗਿ ਓਇ ॥੩॥੨॥ jaisay purain paat rahai jal sameep bhan ravidaas janmay jag o-ay. ||3||2|| As the leaves of the water lily float free in the water, says Ravi Daas, so is their life in the world. ||3||2|| In this chardi kalaa inducing shabad in Raag Asa, Bhagat Ji clearly states that spriritual wisdom is attained from the true Guru, which for us is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj (note how teh 5th Master has given Bhagat Ji utmost respect with the title Sri: ਆਸਾ ਬਾਣੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਜੀਉ ਕੀ aasaa banee saree ravidaas jee-o kee Aasaa, The Word Of The Reverend Ravi Daas Jee: ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ik-oNkaar satgur parsaad. One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru: ਮ੍ਰਿਗ ਮੀਨ ਭ੍ਰਿੰਗ ਪਤੰਗ ਕੁੰਚਰ ਏਕ ਦੋਖ ਬਿਨਾਸ ॥ marig meen bharing patang kunchar ayk dokh binaas. The deer, the fish, the bumble bee, the moth and the elephant are destroyed, each for a single defect. ਪੰਚ ਦੋਖ ਅਸਾਧ ਜਾ ਮਹਿ ਤਾ ਕੀ ਕੇਤਕ ਆਸ ॥੧॥ panch dokh asaaDh jaa meh taa kee kaytak aas. ||1|| So the one who is filled with the five incurable vices - what hope is there for him? ||1|| ਮਾਧੋ ਅਬਿਦਿਆ ਹਿਤ ਕੀਨ ॥ maaDho abidi-aa hit keen. O Lord, he is in love with ignorance. ਬਿਬੇਕ ਦੀਪ ਮਲੀਨ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ bibayk deep maleen. ||1|| rahaa-o. His lamp of clear wisdom has grown dim. ||1||Pause|| ਤ੍ਰਿਗਦ ਜੋਨਿ ਅਚੇਤ ਸੰਭਵ ਪੁੰਨ ਪਾਪ ਅਸੋਚ ॥ tarigad jon achayt sambhav punn paap asoch. The creeping creatures live thoughtless lives, and cannot discriminate between good and evil. ਮਾਨੁਖਾ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਦੁਲਭ ਤਿਹੀ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਪੋਚ ॥੨॥ maanukhaa avtaar dulabh tihee sangat poch. ||2|| It is so difficult to obtain this human incarnation, and yet, they keep company with the low. ||2|| ਜੀਅ ਜੰਤ ਜਹਾ ਜਹਾ ਲਗੁ ਕਰਮ ਕੇ ਬਸਿ ਜਾਇ ॥ jee-a jant jahaa jahaa lag karam kay bas jaa-ay. Wherever the beings and creatures are, they are born according to the karma of their past actions. ਕਾਲ ਫਾਸ ਅਬਧ ਲਾਗੇ ਕਛੁ ਨ ਚਲੈ ਉਪਾਇ ॥੩॥ kaal faas abaDh laagay kachh na chalai upaa-ay. ||3|| The noose of death is unforgiving, and it shall catch them; it cannot be warded off. ||3|| ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਦਾਸ ਉਦਾਸ ਤਜੁ ਭ੍ਰਮੁ ਤਪਨ ਤਪੁ ਗੁਰ ਗਿਆਨ ॥ ravidaas daas udaas taj bharam tapan tap gur gi-aan. O servant Ravi Daas, dispel your sorrow and doubt, and know that Guru-given spiritual wisdom is the penance of penances. ਭਗਤ ਜਨ ਭੈ ਹਰਨ ਪਰਮਾਨੰਦ ਕਰਹੁ ਨਿਦਾਨ ॥੪॥੧॥ bhagat jan bhai haran parmaanand karahu nidaan. ||4||1|| O Lord, Destroyer of the fears of Your humble devotees, make me supremely blissful in the end. ||4||1|| I am overwhelmed by teh original posters coments on how some Ravidaas followers are coming back to Sikhi, we should encourage this, through education and understanding rather than through over zealous uneducated fanatical banting... it would be great to hold a kirtan/simran programme at some of the Ravidaas Gurdwarai, and eventually an Amrit Sanchaar, nothing could be more wonderful, than seperated members of the panth coming back to the Khalsa fold, they should take maan in the Khalsa, as their ancestors did much to sustain it, namely in teh armies of Banda Singh Bahadur, which some independent sources say were primarily made of the down trodden castes, these people gave astounding shaheediyan, which were witnssed and recorded by many historians during the executions of Banda Singh forge in Delhi... It is not enough to take maan in your history however, that history is only yours if you live up to it, i.e. become Khalsa, and we all rid ourselves of anti-gurmat practice and castism. Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa Vaheguru ji ki Fateh. Harcharan Singh
  3. http://www.rajacademy.com/article.php?arti...310531917b80e02 Please come and experience simran in Gurbani Raag Todhi. Todhi emphasizes that no matter what problems man meets or what worldly affairs distract the mind, devotion to the Lord brings one back to the path of release from worldliness. And this will be experienced with accompyment of Guru Ji's divine saaj. Simran will be perfomed by Gursikh youth. Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh
  4. Upcoming Puratan Kirtan Events Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Wahegutu ji ki Fateh, Sadh Sangat Jeeo, For those of you interested in Kirtan - the Guru's way... please try and attend the following events. Guru de Saaj are strictly used as are Guru Ji's Nirdaareth-Hukmi Raag to perform beautiful kirtan the way Guru Ji intended. Kirtan will be perfomed Gursikh. PLEASE CLICK ON THE POSTERS BELOW EACH ADVERT TO SEE FULL DETAILS. 28th Feb (Today) http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/events.nsf/...Date=2006-02-28 3rd March (Fri) http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/events.nsf/...Date=2006-03-03 4th March (Sat) http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/events.nsf/...Date=2006-03-04 11th March (Sat) http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/events.nsf/...Date=2006-03-11 Sat-Naam :e: :e:
  5. Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Wahegutu ji ki Fateh, Sadh Sangat Jeeo, For those of you interested in Kirtan - the Guru's way... please try and attend the following events. Guru de Saaj are strictly used as are Guru Ji's Nirdaareth-Hukmi Raag to perform beautiful kirtan the way Guru Ji intended. Kirtan will be perfomed Gursikh. PLEASE CLICK ON THE POSTERS BELOW EACH ADVERT TO SEE FULL DETAILS. 28th Feb (Today) http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/events.nsf/...Date=2006-02-28 3rd March (Fri) http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/events.nsf/...Date=2006-03-03 4th March (Sat) http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/events.nsf/...Date=2006-03-04 11th March (Sat) http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/events.nsf/...Date=2006-03-11 Sat-Naam
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