Lion(LK)King

That is true. Very valid points noted Sikhlionz. It is true that pro spokesman comments have been made in anti Sikh media, and perhaps that the directive was issued after pressure from other jathebandis. Your points are very valid, an dmake a lot of sense..but I'm still very suspicious over the fact that..Vedanti or anyone else against spokesman have made any excerpts or quoted exactly what is anti panthic. For example, to write that "the panthic Maryada says hallal is prohibited" will be an anti-panthic, anti Sikh remark - where does the line go? I'm very suspicious over vedanti...and his contant anti-panthic business..when he's obviously been recieving bribes from rapists. You write: Actually, for someone who is doing seva of Akal Thakhat jathedar, he should be more responsible than excommunicating people left and right..who critisize him. He should be responsible..yet full of nirmarta, humility. I am not saying that I am, but that a person with such a high seat (who btw calls himself the 'pope' pf the Sikhs lol )..there shoudl be nimarta, gurbeebi, be able to handle critique etc. Thus it SHOULD surprise everyone that someone who is the Akal Thakhat jathedar is being so irresponsible that he's summoning people due t personal grudges. Anyone, very valid points raised by you veer jeeo:) Bhull Chukk Maaf

cause there wasnt a need for it yet... what would be the point of spreading sikhi in it's early years? sikhi community was not mature enough to start spreading to other places of the earth. And language is not irrelevant, it along with culture compliment but are not part with sikhi... we need cloths to wear to gurdwara, and language to communicate with others. So these things compliment, but not mix. If people try too, then we create confusion and barriers. Brother I disagree with your logic. Did Not Guru Nanak Dev Ji go arounda and preach? Did onot Guru Amar Das Ji send people to preach? To say that Sikhi wasn't mature to start spreading is absurd. Just on Guru Nanak Dev Ji's tours..we can see how many people started adhereing to him. HIs followers can be found from places like villages in tibete to obscure villages in Afghanistan - all who started to adhere him when he was there. Theres villages in south India that adhere to him. That is flawed logic brother. If the language of Gurmukhi is not part with Sikhi but only a cultural compliment, why did the Gurus invent it - whats the opoint? They coudl have used the script current at the time (Devanagri, landa etc etc). There were loads of lanaguages at the time - they chose to create a new one - why? I agree that barriers need to be removed, hence why theres English translations..but it is extremely vital that one learns Gurmukhi..since your own understanding of Gurbani is usually very different from some translators understanding. You shold not let others do everything for you. That is where the bhamanism comes in. The low castes had to believe in what Brahmans had to say, because they themselves coudl not read the message. Lets not fall for these traps. Lets read the message and interpret it ourself. Understand your Guru. You have not answered why Guru Ji would use time to create a new font..when he coudl have used it to, write more bani, preach more, do seva, simran. No he chose to create a script. Why? Bhull Chukk Maaf

I wear Kapris...and I dry my hair using hair dryer is it needs to be dried quickly. Hair dries tend to wear our hair (atleast mine)..so i try to avoid it as much as possible, unless it's urgent..otherwoise tying wet hair..is even more disrespectful..since that would mean that they will start smelling...etc Regarding Kapris...Thers nothing in SIkhi that prevents you from wearing it. In Punjab they might give you some dodg looks (since you're a female)..Sikhi has no input whether you can wear that or not. Remember back in the day..Peoples used to go around in bare Kacherey. Bhull Chukk Maaf

KNH, I agre with you that there is no excuse at allfor anyoen to say "Hindus out of Punjab". There is absolutely no excues. Sikhi teaches toelrance, acceptence, equality etc. The reason most Sikhs see Punjab as their property is due to two main reasons: While negotiating for independence with the British, Sikhs were treated as a Third party, although their tiny amount...due to there immense contributions. Sikhs would get an area much much larger that Punjab is today. Unforunatly our leadesr screwed up..and accepted the empty promises of the likes of Jawaharlala Nehru chacha ji and Gandhi pita jee (lol), who promised that if SIkhs are not satisfied in India, they can have their own coutry. As a matter of fact before the British annexed Punjab, Ranjit Singh controled punjab, so 'india' never was the rightful 'owner' or 'controler' of Punjab. It is only due to the immense contributions and ade by our leadesr such as Master Tara Singh Ji and Baba Balwant (it was something with a B..not sure if it was Balwant..or what it was) Singh Ji. For the above mentioned reasons..Smany Sikhs feel that they are the rightful 'owners' of Punjab..and that they have been deprived of their rights..not only as rulers..but as Indian citizens..considering the unconsitutional army quotas, water transport from Punjab (Indian consitution gives all water rights to a riparian state) There is however no reason why Sikhs acn say 'Hindus out of Punjab' Bhull Chukk Maaf

Lionchild..why do you tihnk the Gurus invented Gurmukhi? If language is completly irrelevant (I agree...learning Gurmukhi will not amke you a brahmgyani..nor will not learning Gurmukih take a a lot further from Vaheguru).. Why Would the Guru spend time on inventing Gurmukhi..when he coudl have used that time for translating the Gurbani into other languages

Actually most fo the time, what has been published is how he's been excommunicated, and his newspapers is allegedly anti-panthic, anti-sikh, pro kala and what not. Not once has - 1- One Single anti-sikh/panthic comment made by the editor been provided- 2- Any other proof that what goes on in the mag is anti-sikh anti panthic etc. For some reason this wouldn't surprise me, considering him actually considering excommunicating or summoning prabhsharandeep singh who questened the jathedar in the US. I do not have any contact or relation with the spokesman..I do not know what tyhey publish, and I have never read a single article from it, but considering the huge amount of 'hoo haa' that has been made, no proof has been provided. Same way, I do not know who prabhsharandeep singh is, I cannot care less about his life or whatever. I disagree with him digging on Espanola Sangat, but him questioning the jathedar in the US, made the jathedar kind of 'scared' (mild term).... which made im actually consider summoning him. What proof is there that the above statement by Joginder is not true? It is not like the ajthedar has never showed that he can use the authority for his own good. We have already seen how he has done that on numerous occasions (recieving bribes from dhanwanta...associating with chicago valey baba ji..after him 'counceling' in a motel ..with a 'prai nar'...and other morbid things Vedanti has done..)..So what makes SSNews so sure this is not the case now..and what proof is there. As mentioned, I have no links or contacts with any of the people mentioned above...Just that the huge amount of trust SSNews has put in the jathedar..makes me wary... Bhull Chukk Maaf

Exactly. That is the qurabni that is needed. The Qurbani of raising Ak-s isn't the qurbani today. Khalras Qurabni is supreme. He was an amazing person. If you want to give Shaheed and give qurbani - do something good. join human rights groups.. Tuahdi qurbani parvan hou.. Bhull Chukk Maaf

Butmost of it has been recorded. Although by Very biased authors (Mohsin Fani, Jahangir himself...Qazi Nur Muhammad etc etc..lets goes on) It's all recorded. Unless you can back up your claim, which is utterly against Gurmat, I doon't see any reasonw why I shouldn't question it. Most fo the Panj Baniya arn't from Guru Granth Sahib JI. Secondly the Banis in Guru Granth Shaib ji are as long as they are in Gutkey. Also Gutkey are publishe dby pulishers..who put tiles on the different prayers by THEMSELVES. by the titls in Guru Granth Sahib ji, are those that matter. For Example your Gutka from Chattar Singh Jeevan Singh, might say JAPJI SAHIB. In reality it name of the bani is Jap. That' is. Meditate. Jap. I'm not saying you have, but someone has and you've fallen for it. Ok. Whatever makes you happy bro No, but our history is noted. It's there. You dont need a video film to wathc it. Read it. Go buy book by muslim historians. My nitnem is none of your business... But I wouldn't mind doign the above. There are certaim times when banis are compulsary, btu that doesn't mean you an't read them at other times Unless you can prove your statements... I see no reason to carry on this discussion. Stay in Chardikala bro Bhull Chukk maaf Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Nimana das jee, My location is Guru Ji's sharan. Indeed some remote corner of the world Not at all angry..just sayign tha mentionign his surname or caste won't make any difference. Wouldn't make any difference if he was a mazbi Sikh, or Kathri Sikh, I'm sure he wouldn't be very different.

Is it today? I can understand (not saying I disagree or agree) that they did it 22 years ago. But is violence being thrust upon you today? Yes, these are all huamn rights abuses thast people from Punjab have had to go through. What are you doing about it, except sitting on a chair behind the screen? Have you joined any Human Rights Group (theres loads, ENSAAF, IHMR, SHRG, Citizens for Democracy, the list goes on..)? I agree, what was going on was wrong. It is still happening to an extent, I agree - but is it happening to everyday citizens today? If your answer is yes, I suggest you go to Punjab and check it out for yourself. I'm not saying its all solved and sorted. THere is much space for improvement, and encounters still take place but predominantly towards those who do raise the sword. Whatever you prioritize bro, as long as you refrain from raising the sword for fun. 1984 was 22 years ago. What happend was horrible. We will never forget what happened, and what happened the subsequent ten years. THose memories have pierced every Sikhs' heart. That still, my dear brother, does not give you any right to raise the sword today, because Sikhs are NOT being persecuted in Punjab today to such an extent as they were 10 years ago. Do you want to do qurbani for Panth? Don't take an Ak47 and start shooting people, instead join some human Rights group. I assure you, you will get enough juttiya from only fighting for human rights. You do not have to quick up shastar to become a shaheed. Become a Shaheed by serving people. Go to European pariliament like many Sikhs are doing. Fight for human Rights. make money and server the sons and daughters of the Shaheeds of 1984. I'm not saying anything whether i agree or disagree with anything. I simply disagree with raising the sword as the resort for the struggle. Just look at Gurdwara reform movement, the mahants shot the Akalis trying to rescue the Gurdware - did they give up? Did the Akalis give up after tens of thousands fo them being arrested against Indira Bibi's emergency? As they used to say: Jo kosh vi karna Shant mey tang de naal karna. Where is this shant mey? Are you following the ideals of the people you follow? You do not need to wait for anybody. That wait will be very long. Do what you got to do, and fight for justice, sef-determination in a peaceful manner. We have already seen how the government of india has tried to interfere in the European Parliament meeting with Sikhs, and trying to prevent Sikhs from gathering at trafalger square last year. Sikhs are itching GOi in the eyes every time they're protesting peacefully. Everytime Sikhs act like **** and blow stuff up to show their anger, they're laughing their heads off. Bhull Chukk Maaf

First you make up stories, next you do othing to substanciate them. Fair enough if these fairy tales follow Gurmat, but they are utter manmat. Nowhere in Guru Granth Sahib Ji is there KIRTAN Sohila mahalla PELA, Which Gutka are you using? Sohila Sahib startts with: Sohila Rag Gauri Deep Ki Mahala Pehla. sohilaa raag gourree dheepakee mehalaa 1 http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=49 Nowhere in Guru Granth Sahib Ji is Kirtan Sohila used (might be used in Bhai Gurdas JI diya vaara..not sure..) Actually, if you pick out your Punjabi dictionary from the cupboard, the word 'sohila' means happiness, joy. Sikhs read the prayer of JOY at death. Read the ABni From Guru Granth Sahib Ji, or from the Panth Parvan Rehit Maryada, it's called Sohila. Dd not know this, but don't see how its relevant to this discussion. 1- Substantiate your stories, instead of asking people to blindly believe in stuff. The type of behaviour you are hoping people have..is not according to Sikh (to blindly accept tales)... By saying tha a certain bani will only be benificial on a certain time is an INSULT to Dhur Ki Bani. Shabad Guru is beyond time, space, and everything else Bhull Chukk Maaf

I agree with max toa certain extent. When people speak of Khalistan the question of weapons, ammunition voilence comes up. We justify it using the famous quote of Guru Gobind Singh Ji - When ALL other means of negotiation fails, it is righteous to raise the sword. Today, are we ready to use ALL other means? Remember ALL is a very huge word. It's not, using 1 resort, 2 resort, 5 resorts. It's when ALL other means of nefotiations fail. I'm not saying you should take off your Kirpan (that would be stupid), but remember that it is ONLY ot be used when all other means fail.Instead of picking up the weapons (today).... Why don't everyone claimign to struggle for Khalistan approcuh their local MPs, European parilaiments, human rights activits fighting for self-determiniation. These people are true Sikhs. Those juming on weapons as their first resort are not. I know I will be jumped at for reminding everyone that weapons is not the firs, second or third resort. Do what some oter sisters and brothers are doing - fight for human rights first, self-determination, diplomatically. Bhull Chukk Maaf

eh, what does being Brar have to do with anything? Why have you refered to someone who you respect as a brar? Was a he a Brar or a Khalsa. He can't be both.

Pritam Singh Khalsa, where exactly can this story be found? Historical reference please. If you read Sohila (as it it's real name is), you will realise that it is not only composition of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, but also Guru Arjan Dev ji and Guru Ram Das Ji. Thus the story cannot be true. Any Bani can be read at any time. It is Bhamansvad to say that some banis can ONLY be read at some times. yes some banis are COMPULSARY at some times, since that is when you get the most out of it... But ther eis no restriction. When someone dies, you read sohila Sahib. What if someone dies 10 in the morning? No bani is bound to any time. Yes some are mandatory at some times, but it doesn't mean you cannot read i.e. Sohila Sahib after Anand Sahib (in morning)..if you want to... Bhull Chukk Maaf

Taksali Singh, have you had to compromise the size of the Kirpan? What size do you use when boarding on air?