GareebSikh1699

You make a very good point. There are people asking for money to make Khalistan happen by 2020. Meanwhile, the drugs, the alcohol consumption, the illiteracy, the poverty, the aborted girls, the cancer, the poverty and 1984 victims (who need to be our immediate top financial priority) are all being ignored because of these imaginary paper exercises and the empty slogans every year that do nothing to help those suffering. Very well said 5AkaalSingh Ji. The type of people who make these false allegations against Master Tara Singh Ji are probably not even aware that in 1947 Sikhs were a minority in every single district of Punjab. These people seem to imagine that 100% of Punjabi's are 100% Sikh today in 2018. And when you tell them that only 14% of Punjabi's were even Sikh in 1947 it helps them slightly grasp that nowhere in the last 200years has a 14% demographic minority been granted independence (to rule over a majority of others) by an Empire that perpetrated the British Empire's Genocide of Sikhs against us as seen in the aftermath of 1849, Jallianwala Bagh and the countless shaheeds of the Gurdwara Reform Movement. Just to add to your point the Muslims had a population just shy of 100 million back in 1947. I genuinely feel that a lot of people are ignorant of this reality that 66% of Punjabi's today are Muslims, 22% are Hindu's across the states and whilst only 11% of historically Punjabi populations are Sikhs. Meanwhile the Sikh population was in fact just over 5 million in 1947. And Sikhs were even a minority in Majha, Doaba and Malwa let alone all the other districts. Albeit that our numbers weren't too far behind the Muslims in these three districts and therefore allowed our people to thus avoid total extermination in the Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs. Muslims were the majority in the cities of Amritsar, Jalandhar, Ludhiana and Muslims had voted for all of Punjab to be in Pakistan so Jinnah's plan was to annex present day east Punjab into Pakistan. So the people claiming that the British offered the 14% Sikh minority an independent fully functional independent state in which Muslims were the majority are kidding themselves and insulting a great Sikh who dedicated his life to the Panth for no financial gain. The ignorance regarding current demographic projections of a Sikh minority in Punjab is shocking. Brother let me make clear, I support wholeheartedly the actions of our great Shaheeds - Bhai Beant Singh, Bhai Satwant Singh and Bhai Kehar Singh. My dream is to see Delhi airport rightfully named in honour of these great heroes one day (however long into the future that might be) as opposed to being named after an evil terrorist like Indira Gandhi by Congress thugs to commemorate her very rightful and deserved dispatch. Sodha of real dushts who have the blood of innocent Sikhs on their hands is something every Sikh should support. Justice is one of the fundamental corner stones of what Sikhi is all about. Shaheed Bhai Sukha Singh and Shaheed Bhai Mehtab Singh are heroes to the entire Panth. I don't think a single person can have any opposition to their actions. If Baba Baghel Singh could could conquer Delhi in the past then there is no reason that parchar and seva cannot return Khalsa Raj to Delhi again one day if we solve the immediate problems we face in front of us in the short term (like the fact that Sikhs may become a minority in Punjab by the 2021 census). Now coming on to your point about justice. We haven't gotten justice in the last 34years. Year after year things have gotten worse and worse and worse since 1984. The splitting of single united Gurdwara's into multiple golaks, Sikhs rolling around on drugs, Sarkari Sikhs killing sincere GurSikhs, Sikhs letting poor children rot without an education and letting their parents convert or die if they don't have money for cancer treatment, so-called Sikhs perpetrating female infanticide. These are injustices we have to correct right here right now. You have been open and have pledged to support the education of a poor Sikh child to do your part to be part of the solution. So I hope everyone reading the thread can join it and publicly commit to doing the same. I would like to nominate MisterrSingh or Harsharan000 as honest Sikhs who can be trusted to oversee the Sangat's donations to the poor Sikh children who we as ordinary posters will commit to supporting. http://www.shdf.org/ https://educatepunjab.net/

LoL nice try YoYo but what you are let down by is a lack of truth. There were hardly any Hindu land lords in Punjab as the majority 72% of the farmlands in present day West Punjab and present day east Punjab were held by Muslim Punjabi's. Muslim Jats, Muslim Rajputs, Muslim Saini's (Arains in Pakistan), Muslim Kamboh's (Arains or Kamboh's in Pakistan), Muslim Gujjars as well as Pathans, Awans (Kiyani Rajputs), Syeds (Qureshi's), Mughals, Baloch's along with Muslim Brahmins (Butts and Hussaini's), Sheikhs (Muslim Khatri's) etc, etc have always held their own land as opposed to being tenants. This is why so-called higher caste Muslims always referred to Sikhs as a "chooreh-chamaarah di Qaum" when Giani Ditt Singh Ji would expose the discrimination within the Quran and defeat the Muslims in debates - as Sikhi is THE religion for the oppressed to shelter within. Furthermore, most Jats happen to be Muslims and every one is aware of famous Pakistani Jats like Prime Ministers and leaders of the Muslim League like Liaquat Ali Khan and Chaudhury Muhammad Zafarullah Khan and Chaudhury Naseer Ahmed Malhi. And in the case of Saini's and Kamboh's (who are known as Arains in Pakistan) again it is only a small minority of them who are even Sikh with the Muslim ones far more powerful politically as we see in the case of General Zia (Arain caste). Brahmin Muslims have only come to political prominence recently with the Sharif family. No wonder most lower caste Muslims turned to Christianity with the so-called higher caste Muslims often preventing their entry into Mosques.

That it was precisely what the Muslims did. Imagine if 42 million Pakistani's were killed tomorrow (=20% of the population massacred). Yes it's a terrifying thought. But that's the scale of the Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs in 1947. By all means you can point out deficiencies in individual who might claim to be Sikh but fail to follow the injunctions in their scripture that discrimination is anti-human. On the other hand Islam and the Quran actively promote anti-humane concepts such as slavery and the rape of female sex slaves. So the objection to your points is on the basis of your trying to claim that Sikhi (as a faith) is "just as bad" as Islam which openly promotes rape, genocide, slavery, terrorism all is practised by the Prophet Muhammad himself and detailed in the Quran and Hadith. Nobody dispute that are certain pseudo Sikhs who have been infected by the Hindu and Muslim concepts of class discrimination. The difference is that Sikhi wholeheartedly opposes discrimination of all forms whereas Hinduism promotes the caste system and Islam goes a step further with the Quran making excuses for Prophet Muhammad's immoral and inhumane capture, sale and profiteering off the misery of innocent black African slaves. Even the example you cite of discrimination is over 100 years old when the British Empire controlled Gurdwara's via their Mahants who were NOT Sikh. Again, nobody will deny that there are false Sikhs who are simply nominal Sikhs that discriminate. There are 15,000 Gurdwara's in east Punjab so it is inevitable that one may be used by Hindutva allies (fake Sikhs) in order to besmirch the equality that Sikhi unequivocally stands for forever. The difference is your deliberate moral equivocation of Sikhi and Islam as two religions which are "equally bad". Islam openly supports genocide, terrorism, rape, slavery, sexual slavery. Sikhi condemns all of those practises and condemns caste discrimination in the harshest terms. Furthermore, whilst a Pakistani will never control Islam from Mecca, Mazhabi Sikhs have led the Sikh Fauj, Mazhabi Sikhs have been Chief Minister of Punjab (in contrast to your Brahmin Muslim leader Shahbaz Sharif), most Granthi's (mullahs) in Punjab are of Mazhabi background and Guru Sahib themselves said that those that the Hindu's amd Muslims despised as low were Guru Sahib's own sons. Yes 13 innocent Sikhs were killed by the Nirankari's on Indira Gandhi's orders Yes that Pakistan initiated the Genocide is unquestioned. However, the reality that you are not aware of is that Sikhs were a minority in east Punjab districts of Majha, Doaba and Malwa (present day east Punjab) and it was the Muslim aim of annexation of these districts into Pakistan by starting attacks on Sikhs which in turn caused a belated Sikh fightback to save the Sikh community from total extermination at the hands of Muslims

... Let us all unitedly focus on 5 simple objectives like how we: 1. Ensure only one united Gurdwara per pind and locality 2. Ensure 99% of Sikhs avoid drugs and alcohol 3. Raise money to ensure 100% literacy amongst poor Sikh children http://www.shdf.org/ 4. Eradicate female infanticide as a phenomenon among Sikhs 5. Raise money to combat cancer amongst poor Sikhs in particular

Who oppresses the so-called lower castes in Pakistan? Answer = Muslims! Which religion has the highest percentage of people from previously oppressed but newly liberated backgrounds? Answer = Sikhi

Muslims were 53.4% in Bengal in 1941. Sikhs were only 14% in Punjab in 1947. Sikhs were a minority in every single district of Punjab in 1947. I have never claimed that all Sikhs were somehow angels in 1947. However, what I have pointed out is that Muslims were the initial aggressors throughout Punjab - not only in West Punjab which is accepted by Pakistani's themselves - but even in east Punjab! As Sikhs were a minority community in even Majha, Doaba and Malwa and simply had to defend themselves and fight back as a matter of existential survival in east Punjab (or face total extermination). If Punjabi Muslims attacked liberal Pakistani atheists like yourself tomorrow what would you personally do YoYo Ji? Your choice is either to be killed by Muslims or to fight back. So please tell me which option you would choose?

That is where Jinnah deserves credit. Despite being the architect of the Rawalpindi Sikh massacres along with his Muslim Jat (Liaquat Ali) and Muslim Brahmin friends (Iqbal) etc he did not get his hands dirty with pronouncements to that effect. The Genocide was planned in Muslim League secret meetings and the level of Genocide inflicted upon kaffirs clearly exposes what Pakistan's intent was. The ISI doesn't need to say what it is doing in order for bombs to explode and kill innocents.

That's the thing - Mazhabi Sikhs are lionized amongst the Sikh community as countless Sikh heroes demonstrate. Sikh demographics have the highest percentage of so-called lower castes as per Hindu and Muslim definitions. Whereas in contrast Muslims have the highest percentage of so-called upper castes. The so-called untouchables of Pakistan were all forced to convert from Islam to Christianity due to being barred entry from Mosques. Whereas individuals may discriminate the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj does not. In contrast the Quran openly condones slavery of human beings and the rape of female sex slaves. The high caste Muslims solved that problems by overwhelmingly forcing the oppressed classes to convert to Christianity as they were not permitted entry to Mosques.

One (mis)quote from a masters candidate hardly holds much water. Equally the quote could be interpreted that once Muslims of east Punjab had attacked Sikhs first ... it was hardly going to be possible for the 2 sides to live together in peace. Bear in mind that all Muslim votes had gone towards supporting the accession of all Punjab into Pakistan. So once the border for Pakistan was declared and east Punjab Muslims had shown designs on annexing Majha, Doaba and Malwa into Pakistan it was 100% inevitable Sikhs would fight back in order to avoid the total extermination of Sikhs. That says it all in regards to Bhai Mardana Ji. Because of his so-called lower caste background in Pakistan he is a nobody according to you - whereas to us as Sikhs Bhai Mardana Ji is the highest of the high as the first Sikh in history.

Bro it's because most Sikh women realise that the prostitute wants the oxygen of publicity so the best thing we can do is fight it quietly and legally and by dropping subscriptions to Zee (assuming it's a paid for channel). That's exactly what the prostitute is banking on. Mass protests by Sikhs so that can use that to garner attention and generate more viewers and social media attraction and TV and press coverage. Certainly no poster with the name Kaur should be tolerated but we don't need to advertise this by burning posters publicly. Quietly does it. Well said Ranjeet! That's what the prostitute wants - so why generate more money for her? Well said sister. Boycotting Zee subscriptions can achieve results. Generating the prostitute free publicity via mass protests (free publicity) or a social media campaign (that she is praying for) will not help us

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x0ZXKVzanQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykSp9A6lX5Y Like I said: No wonder Dalits consider Sikhi as their beloved religion as: One of the bravest Sikh shaheeds acknowledged in history was from an erstwhile Bhangi ("sweeper") and new (Bihari) Gurmukh background - Shaheed Bhai Jiwan Singh Ji. 80% of the Panj Piare (first baptised GurSikhs) were originally from oppressed Dalit backgrounds outside of Punjab. Every Sikhs bows down to Bhagats whom Hindu's and Muslims consider as Dalits - Dhan Dhan Baba Ravidas Ji Maharaj and Dhan Dhan Baba Kabir Ji Maharaj. The Sikh Fauj was led by an erstwhile Dalit (new Khalsa) commander over 300 years ago in the leadership (bestowed by Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj) upon Shaheed Bhai Sangat Singh. Half of the Sikh misls which succeeded in freeing non-Muslims from terrorist Muslim rule in the 18th century were led by erstwhile Dalit background (new Khalsa) commanders. Pakistani's refer to Bhai Mardana Ji as a "kanjar" simply for being from a dalit background with Muslim parentage - in contrast ALL Sikhs see Bhai Mardana Ji as the highest of the high for being the first Sikhs. That says it all about the stark difference between Sikhi and Islam.

YoYo Ji if one Sikh wrongly uses an unfortunate turn of phrase which inadvertently conflates the Sikh fightback in east Punjab (which was a struggle for existential survival) then that does not negate the reality of the fact I presented to you above. The simple undeniable fact is Sikhs in east Punjab in 1947 had a two fold choice: 1. Either they could suffer ethnic cleansing in Majha, Doaba and Malwa and the same scale of Genocide as they faced in west Punjab (20% of Sikh population killed) via annexation of east Punjab into Pakistan. 2. Or they could fight for survival to avoid Genocidal extermination in 1947 given that in the three east Punjab districts of Majha, Doaba and Malwa the numbers of Sikhs broadly matched those of Muslims. If having locally defeated Muslim aggressors in east Punjab some individuals took things too far (then that is a crime against humanity in the case of innocent non-combatants) then that is reprehensible. However, could you live in peace with the terrorist (majority) Muslims that brazenly attacked you first in order to exterminate the (minority) Sikh community from Punjab? So if Muslim Pakistani's attacked all atheists like your good self or Mashal Khan would you just let all Atheists in Pakistan die without trying to at least fight off the aggressors?

The above is a totally false (Pakistani) narrative. The false equivalence is that because Muslims ethnically cleansed out all Sikhs and Hindu's from Pakistan then it somehow implies that Sikhs must have done the same in response in east Punjab (which is plain wrong and provably so). However, look at the facts YoYo Ji. Sikhs were a minority in present day east Punjab in 1947. Muslims were the majority in the three main cities of east Punjab (namely Amritsar, Ludhiana and Jalandhar) and the Muslim population generally matched that of the Sikhs in present day east Punjab districts. Given the success of the Muslim League action in west Punjab where Sikhs were significantly outnumbered by Muslims and where 20% of the Sikhs were successfully killed off in the Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs ... Jinnah and the Pakistani leadership thought that the Sikhs would be easy to ethnically cleanse from Majha, Malwa and Doaba as the Muslims has equal numbers to the Sikhs in these districts. It is well documented in history that Muslims started attacks on Sikhs in east Punjab in 1947 starting from Amritsar (a Muslim majority city at the time - which currently has a Hindu majority like most cities in east Punjab). What the Muslim League did not count is on is that Sikhs realised that if they lost to the Muslims in Majha, Doaba and Malwa in 1947 (as had occurred in west Punjab) then the Sikh Panth would face total extermination via Genocide at the hands of Muslims. So whereas the Muslims fought in order to exterminate kaffirs and annex east Punjab into Pakistan, the Sikhs in responding to Muslim attacks in east Punjab were fighting for existential survival. Having said that, I totally wholeheartedly condemn the murder of any innocent (Muslim) non-combatants. But let's not make the false equivalence (yet again) of making out that Sikhs were "as" guilty as the Muslims in 1947 given that the Sikh community suffered 20 times as many deaths as the Muslims did in per capita terms. That makes it crystal clear who community initiated attacks and which community suffered most in the consequent fallout.

Guys far be it from me to spoil the fantasy dreams party but ... ... with all due respect ... instead of fantasising uselessly ... Let us all unitedly focus on 5 simple objectives like how we: 1. Ensure only one united Gurdwara per pind and locality 2. Ensure 99% of Sikhs avoid drugs and alcohol 3. Raise money to ensure 100% literacy amongst poor Sikh children http://www.shdf.org/ 4. Eradicate female infanticide as a phenomenon among Sikhs 5. Raise money to combat cancer amongst poor Sikhs in particular

You are preaching a massive false equivalence Mr YoYo. Pakistani Muslims have played zero part in creating Islam originally. Since all Pakistani are descendants of Hindu's converted by sword. On the other hand no wonder Dalits consider Sikhi as their beloved religion as: One of the bravest Sikh shaheeds acknowledged in history was from an erstwhile Bhangi ("sweeper") and new (Bihari) Gurmukh background - Shaheed Bhai Jiwan Singh Ji. 80% of the Panj Piare (first baptised GurSikhs) were originally from oppressed Dalit backgrounds outside of Punjab. Every Sikhs bows down to Bhagats whom Hindu's and Muslims consider as Dalits - Dhan Dhan Baba Ravidas Ji Maharaj and Dhan Dhan Baba Kabir Ji Maharaj. The Sikh Fauj was led by an erstwhile Dalit (new Khalsa) commander over 300 years ago in the leadership (bestowed by Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj) upon Shaheed Bhai Sangat Singh. Half of the Sikh misls which succeeded in freeing non-Muslims from terrorist Muslim rule in the 18th century were led by erstwhile Dalit background (new Khalsa) commanders. In east Punjab, the Muslims always referred to Sikhs as a "chooreh-chamaarah di Qaum" as without that component of Sikhs strengthening Sikh numbers to parity with corresponding high caste Muslims in east Punjab (Brahmin Muslims, Khatri Muslims, Jat Muslims, Rajput Muslims, Syed Muslims, Mughal Muslims) then east Punjab would also have inevitably seen Sikhs ethnically cleansed from existence in 1947. Given that Amritsar, Ludhiana and Jalandhar had Muslim majorities and it was the Muslim League who initiated attack upon the minority Sikhs in east Punjab (Majha, Doaba, Malwa) upon the expectation that the Sikhs would easily be driven out of those 3 districts as successfully as transpired in the Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs in West Punjab. So as an atheist from Pakistan yourself (I am a big fan of Muhammad Syed the brilliant atheist Pakistani) I hope you can see that you inadvertently expressed a huge false equivalence in comparing Sikhs of poor backgrounds who are rightfully proud of Sikhi since their ancestors chose the faith - in contrast to Pakistani's of Hindu background whose ancestors were raped and forced into Islam. Sikhi is the only religion in the World that says the poorer a human being is in societal terms the higher one is spiritual terms - as we see in the Bhai Lalo Ji sakhi contrasting a poor Sikh with a rich Muslim Jat.

Benti to Sangat : Let's not give this prostitute the oxygen of publicity that she craves. She wants Sikh to react angrily in order to generate her publicity. Let's starve the prostitute of that on this thread by removing her image. Whilst pressing the SGPC to ensure that she does not besmirch the noble name of Kaur in order to gain vile publicity to enrich her millionaire bank accounts.

I agree with 99% above but Master Tara Singh was a sincere Sikh. I advise you to look into his life's actions and his 100% belief in Sikhi. Bear in mind that the Sikhs were a minority in every single district of Punjab in 1947 including Doaba, Majha and Malwa (and constituted only a 14% minority in undivided Punjab). Expecting the British Empire racists to give Sikhs (who they despised - as Jallianwala Bagh and the Gurdwara Reform proves) a homeland is akin to African Americans (around 14% of the population in USA) expecting to be given a homeland when the British departed America! The Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs in which 20% of our people were killed was indirectly assisted by the British Empire so they were not about to give Sikhs anything in 1947. Sikhs are 1.6% of the population in India and expecting Khalistan is like the 1.6% population of Sikhs in Canada being somehow expected to gain independence from Ottawa when Quebec has not. Also you mentioned in another post that Sikhs are all Punjabi's - this is emphatically not so. 80% of the Panj Piare were non-Punjabi's. Sikhi is a universal faith that we have a duty to spread to all. In 2018 (549 years after 1469) historic Punjabi's are currently: 66% Muslim 22% Hindu 11% Sikh 1% Christian So as Sikhs we need to abandon Punjabiyat completely (except for the language) and focus on spreading Sikhi to communities that can actually appreciate and benefit from the Truth that Sikhi represents. #FreeJaggi went there as an innocent Sikh simply to get married. His case has been ignored by the British government and the fat pig Amrinder deliberately wishes to class all diaspora Sikhs as "terrorists" in order to break overseas funding that was going in support of Sardar H.S.Phulka (human rights lawyer) who would have done a far better and 100% sincere job as (AAP) CM of Punjab.