TejS

This is good and all. However, I would be wary of things like this. If what is mentioned did happen, wouldn't there by other sources, such as Meccan and Arabian sources. The Arabs were very good at documenting whatever took place, and they even documented many individuals they personally deemed as "false prophets." I am unable to find any mentioning of this story in any other non-Sikh source.

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ربي الإمام حضرة ناناك، اكلمه ان فيها مسلم  

Also the transliteration and translation for the Arabic quote is wrong. It transliterates as "rabiy al'imam hadrat nanak, aklmuh 'ana fiha muslim" meaning that even in Imam Hazrat Nanak, one can see a Muslim. Things like this make me even more doubtful.

2 hours ago, puzzled said:

Paji,  I really didn't understand any of that 

He is referring to a series of pictures posted on here of Sikh youth in Punjab taking photographs of themselves aiding Muslims pray during Eid, and in one of those photos, a Sikh male is holding a umbrella over a Muslim male praying.

On 7/31/2018 at 2:26 PM, Guest JSinghnz said:

Deleted. 

???

20 hours ago, Gagan1995 said:

                Yes, your holier than thou attitude is really endearing. Frankly, I don't understand why some of you hate Panjabi-ism. Khalsa was created by Panjabis, the Sikh Empire was created by Panjabis. There is nothing wrong about being proud of Panjab. We are all children of Panjab and we must celebrate it. Turks care more about being Turks than Islamic, Persians care more about being Persians than Islamic, it's only the South Asian islamic slaves that put Islam above their culture / land. Look at any european country, they're always nationalist first and christan second. So if like the paki pigs , you ignore Panjabi, you disgrace your own origin like the paki slaves. So, yes we are Sikhs whether Amritdhari or Sejadhari but we're Panjabi first. You aren't born Sikh, but you're born Panjabi. So excuse me , If I embrace and pride my Panjabiyatt. I would even respect the Pakis more , if they actually embraced their culture first and then islam, instead their written language is a rip off of Persian / Arabic , their spoken language is a Bhaiyya type of UP, and like all prideless , Shameful South asian muslims, they will always be on the bottom of the totem pole. So if you give up Panjabi, something many have died for, you're spitting right in their cause. 

I think the Guru Sahib set the message straight regarding the priority of Sikhi or Punjabi when he chose the Panj Pyaare. 

On 7/26/2018 at 6:28 AM, puzzled said:

Feels very weird talking about this on a sikh forum lol

Exactly. These aren't topics related to Sikhi at all, instead they go against Sikhi, as per being maya. Discussions like the ones OP has initiated only bring the quality of the forum down.

10 hours ago, Bundha said:

One pangtai explains it all  -     Apay beej apay-he khaw, Nanak hukami aavo jao.

What we sow is what we reap. Simples.

When we do bad karam we do not care, we go ahead and do them. When those karam come round and we have to work through them, then we cry and howl - I am such a good person, I do my paath, I do sewa, I never done anything wrong, why is this happening to me. We forget those bad karam we did.

Maybe we did them in a previous life but those karam made in ego and karodh will come back to haunt us.

Guru Ji got nothing to do with it, we are the makers of our own misery.

 

 

I'm not sure what the Sikhs of the past sowed that they had to go through the Chota and Vadda Ghallughara?

9 hours ago, puzzled said:

Imo and iv said it before sikhi can spread in India but by creating a sikh country it will limit sikhi. 

Sort the messed up police in punjab first  most of them are from sikh families and look at how they treat other sikhs. Look at our leaders what have they done for sikhs? The alcohol obsession  hiring slutty stage dancers at wedding receptions   change that mentality first.

Why limit sikhi to one region of South Asia when you can invite so many more people to it. 

There is so much hera pheri in the minds of Punjabi people   everything they do is with hera pheri. Everything they gain is through tricks and plotting. you have brothers killing each other over land. You have sons who get their illiterate parents to stamp property/land papers with their thumbs and then throw them out.  If your sons raped someone just pay the police and he will be out! To run a sikh country you need to people to behave and think like sikhs first.

Thank you. A separate Sikh country is a terrible idea and limits the scope of the religion.

16 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

With or without rawalpindi riots east punjab muslims were destined to be doomed.

So maybe Punjabi Muslims shouldn't have claimed land which was as equal to Sikhs/Hindus as "Muslim land" in the first place. Do you people know how logic works?

18 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

As far throwing stones well it was your lot started categorizing Muslim pecking order. I merely responded with the same tongue. 

And did that hurt your feelings lol? Our discussion was relevant to what we were discussing, your post just sounds like you're butthurt. We don't need you to come on here and state the obvious for us every time we talk about Muslims. 

@YOYO29 I've accepted my own community's failings long back. But that doesn't mean I should stop criticizing the holier-than-thou Muslims? I don't get your purpose here. Every time the forums is having a discussion on here that criticizes or even mentions Muslims, you seem to pop up defending your people. You're not here to learn about Sikhism, you're just here to block any just criticism of Islam.

18 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

You see this stuff happening in Bihar and India where caste system is in practice with much more intensity.I don't see any of this happening in Pakistan.here whether you are rich or poor you get buried in same graveyard. By the way you people are not far behind discriminating people even on death. here is an excerpt from this article http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-exclusive-where-do-we-take-our-dead-and-go-ask-dalits-1599355 
 

Oh yes, now you'll play the Pakistan card. Aren't Indian Muslims still Muslims? Where is the unity at now? What about the Ummah yo? Lmao Pakistanis are hypocrites. Why are you guys cashing off of China, who treat Uyghur Muslims like <banned word filter activated>, protect the Ummah yo.

19 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

In significant numbers of threads on this forum you people always find a way to bring Muslims into it.Talk about obsession.

Quote them here and then you can actually claim something. Until then, what you say is false. 

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hahaah classic line.Heard it many times from Hindus.Man their randi rona about Arabs never stops.get over it

Okay good. If you don't like what you hear here, you are free to leave. 

And what the Hindus say is true. Arabs treat Pakistanis as inferior. It would be pretty heartbreaking if when all is over, and you realize that Islam was just a tool meant to propagate Arabic culture, that you had to put up with such treatment from them. Other South Asians aren't treated any better, but atleast they don't worship Arab gods, in Arabic towards Arab landmarks. 

https://www.hrw.org/report/2018/03/07/caught-web/treatment-pakistanis-saudi-criminal-justice-system

19 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

Absolutely.You just love to generlize people.Should I also generlize the entire Sikh community for dicrmination some black sikhs face by your poeple in canadian gurudwara.i don't remeber that black sikhs name who made a video how he was discrminated in gurudwara. Should all sikhs be held accountable for this discrimination just like you love to make sweeping statments about arabs and other muslims ? 

Go ahead man. I'd actually be thankful for highlighting discrimination in my community so I can better those around me to stop it, unlike you people who love to shove their issues under the carpet.

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Nothing wrong about knowing other people.There are sikhs on Muslim forums.Nothing wrong with that.

On a Muslim religious forum? I doubt that. Please link the forum where Sikhs are actively taking part in Muslims discussions and pushing their false narratives and agendas on the forum.

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Ever thought of applying your advice on yourself ? if you read this thread from the start you will know who brought Muslims into that and started bringing other Muslim groups and their alleged discrimination into it and when i talked same discrimination happening right under your nose it did not sit well with you.Well,next time you wanna bring up discrimination in other groups you better make sure that you don't do any of this in your own home.

Another user brought that in. Not me. And what's wrong with it anyway? Does the forum rules on here prohibit the discussion of other religions, absolutely not. So I don't need a Muslim on a Sikh forum to explain to me what I can and can't do. Thank you but no thank you, we don't need Islamic policing on this forum.

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Would you say the same to those African converts and others who change their names to Sikh Indian ones ? Would they be promoting Sikh Indian Punjabi culture ? I don't understand your fixation on Arabs.Every religion is gonna have elements of native culture where it developed.

If I'm not mistaken, I don't think Sikhs have gone on to convert Africans en masse through conquest. Whoever has converted to Sikhi, has done so out of their own choice and not in any kind of compulsion. 

18 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

Not a problem.Anyways  It's an improvement from your part at least you have come down from arabic islam to persian islam.Soon you will be able to see the difference in south asian islam Vis-à-vis others  

Islam is Arabic culture. I still stand on that. You guys also propagate Persian culture. Heck, from the names of your children/villages to the Pakistani national anthem, there are so many Farsi loanwords that its almost hilarious. The script you write in is based off of the Perso-Arabic script as well. 

18 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

What makes me think ? well everthing you you mentioned from ghalugara , golden temple desceration etc all the more reasons for sikhs to attack muslims.
i think you have misunderstood my mentioning of lahore 1935 clashes.I was saying that sikh muslim rawalpindi riots should be seen in that context of sikh/muslim struggle in british period.These riots were limited to rawalindi.It was not like a a larger Muslim punjab plan to eradicate all sikhs from west punjab.if that has been the case there should have been more attacks on sikhs in other districts of punjab.Wheras we see a larger sikh plan in East Punjab to target whole community

What lol? If anything, those events show that Muslims have always been the aggressors. If Sikhs wanted to take revenge, they would have individually dealt with the Mughal and Afghans - and they already did to some extent. Your confounded reasoning makes no sense. All you are attempting to do is push your narrative of Muslims being the victims in the partition. That isn't the case. Your people wanted a seperate Muslim land, your people started killings in Rawalpindi, your people started large-scale killings in West Punjab. Your people started it and your people were the aggressors. 

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first you made it sound like that every thing started with rawalpindi massacre and now you are saying this was in response to west punjab killings.kissay ek thaa te khaloo

I didn't make it sound like that, you wrongly interpreted it as such because it seems to me that you fail to understand the difference between the Rawalpindi killings and large-scale killings in West Punjab. And I'm not saying anything, this is all Ishtiaq Ahmed's research based on primary sources of that time.

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not true.I have seen people on this forum giving this explanation for malerkotla muslims's staying in punjab.

They are just regular people. Not scholars.

7 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

Emotional attachment.It's been centuries since we converted to Islam.I would prefer to stay this way.

Nice. Have fun propagating Arab culture for Arabs while being ridiculed by them. 

7 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

Like I said south asian islam is differnt from arab iranian turkish islam.But yes we do have some aspects of Arab culture visible in Pakistan which should not be a surprise as Islam was created by an Arab.Just like some convert Sikhs from western backgrounds will like Sikh Punjabi culture.Some even changed their western names to Sikh Indian names.So,yes when a religion is developed/created by some ethnic group it will definitely have impact on it and this impact will be visible wherever that religion goes.

South Asian Islam is basically Persian Islam. From the Sufi shrines to the prayer practices, it's all been taken from Persia. 

7 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

Never claimed to be egalitarian.Caste system in a reality in south Asia.Nobdoy denies that.It's you people who criticize hindus and muslims for caste system yet turn a blind eye towards the caste system in your own community.

Not really. We criticize Hindus and Muslims for their rituals. Yes, we are casteless by scripture, but of course there are issues in practice. With more education that will improve. Rituals ordained in scripture cannot though. 

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And I would like to see your upper castes marry your daughters to Sikh low caste.Like I said countless times that you should not throw stones when you live in a glass house.Let me know when you have all finished caste system in your own community then we will talk about ours.

Oh, marriages like those have happened. Multiple times. The same can't be said for Muslims. Dude, you're the one initiating this conversation, you are the one that started throwing stones, but I'm not surprised. 

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It was new to me.My experience is based on Pakistani mosques where i did not witness any of caste discrimination.

Well, you learn something new everyday. 

7 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

Tell me when was the last time you heard about lower caste Muslims denied entry into Mosque ?

Yes, here: https://books.google.ca/books?id=Q-F07ALiguEC&pg=PA268&lpg=PA268&dq=separate+mosque+for+dalits&source=bl&ots=V0F1aQZXaA&sig=FIYfVj0W3BAlgoLEO8IixLo0lTo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjYn5jd7qvcAhVY1IMKHfaqCJcQ6AEIiwEwDg#v=onepage&q=separate mosque for dalits&f=false

You guys are even worse that you discriminate amongst the dead:

http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/mar/06bihar.htm

8 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

Nah I said what i meant.Read it again.Islam has a history of 1000 years in Sub continent.South Asian Islam is way different than Arab,Turkish islam.

South Asian Islam is just Persian Islam haha. It's still not your own culture. 

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You speak as if you have done survey of 300 million Arabs.Besides I don't care how someone else view me.You should be worried about the discrimination your mazhabi sikh face in punjab. Muslims should be least of your worries.

I don't need to do a survey of all Arabs, when I can just look at their current traditions. Arabs are a very proud people unlike South Asian Muslims, they hate appropriating other people's cultures to the extent that they refuse to wear things such as jeans and collared shirts in their lands. They believe in blood purity and view themselves as the progenitors of Islam. 

If you go through my post history, you'll realize I don't talk much about Muslims, and the only reason I'm even having this discussion is because you, a Muslim, is arguing away with misinformation on a Sikh forum. I don't even understand what a Muslim is doing on a Sikh forum in the first place lol! You should be worried about Islamic extremism, killing of non-Muslims in Pakistan, discrimination of low caste Muslims in South Asia than be worried about Sikhs. Sikhs and Sikh issues should be the least of your worries as well, so adiós .

8 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

Actually I have read his book bloodied partition.Rawalpindi massacre started in March 1947.And before that there were sikh/muslim tensions in punjab.Remeber Shahedganj Gurudwara controversy in Lahore in 1935.Now Muslim refugees started to come into Pakistan in mid august.This clearly shows that Sikh leadership had this plan to get rid of Muslims of East Punjab all along.Otherwise I don't see why they waited for 5 months to take revenge of Rawalpindi massacre.If all the Sikh attacks in East Punjab were mere revenge attacks for Rawalpindi massacres then these attacks should have been spontaneous.Why wait for 5 months ? As you know these revenge attack/riot happen at the spur of moment you don't wait around months to take revenge.This clearly shows that Sikh leadership  had made up their mind to exterminate Muslims of East Punjab. Rawalpindi massacre just gave them excuse they were looking for.I have no doubt that with or without Rawalpindi massacres Muslims would have met the same fate.

Remember the Chota Ghallughara? Remember the Vadda Ghallughara? Remember the desecration of the Golden Temple by Massa Ranghar? Remember the demolition of the Golden Temple by the Muslim Durranis? Remember the Nankana massacre?

The above is a history of Muslims persecuting Sikhs for centuries. I'm not talking about a single year like 1947, but literally hundreds of years of constant persecution of Sikhs by Muslims. But you people love playing victim. Muslims have always been the aggressors. Whether you want to accept that or not is up to you, but that is the truth. Muslim Punjabi vastly outnumbered Sikh and Hindu Punjabi put together, what makes you think the Sikhs, who historically have never been the aggressors, all of sudden would have unnecessarily wanted to instigate such a large community in the first place? They didn't. 

And the Sikh retaliation was not due to the Rawalpindi massacre. It was the large scale killings that Muslims started in West Punjab during August 1947, something Ishtiaq Ahmed also states. It was then that Sikh/Hindus started large scale killings in return. The history is clear, Muslims started the killing, they started religious cleansing for a "Muslim homeland". It wasn't the other way around. The Muslim League proposed a country on the basis of religion first, not the Sikhs or Hindus.

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Sikhs jathas must have thought that once the rest of East Punjab is emptied of Muslims these muslims will also migrate.

These are all your own assumptions based on your own prejudices. Sikhs do not think like Muslims. We do not go on cleansing regions in the name of religion. Sikhs are able to co-exist without labeling people as momins and kaffirs. 

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Even Muslims of different sects are not safe.The less is said about the plight of other non Muslim minorities is better.I hope someday this madness will end.

No the more that is said, the more light is shed on the true nature of Pakistanis. You are an inhumane people to anyone that is non-Muslim.