5aaban
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Sikh, Christian die in targeted killings in Pakistan’s NW
Pakistani police say a Sikh and a Christian have been shot dead in separate targeted attacks in the northwest city of Peshawar
PESHAWAR, Pakistan -- A Pakistani Sikh businessman and a Christian cleaner were shot dead by unknown assailants in separate incidents in the northwestern city of Peshawar, police said Saturday.
Gunmen on a motorbike opened fire on Sikh shop owner Dayal Singh when he was in his grocery store and fled the scene, said police officer Haroon Rasheed. He said an investigation was underway.
Rasheed said police have found evidence from surveillance camera footage and will soon be able to identify the gunmen.
Ranveer Singh, a representative of Pakistan’s minority Sikh community, said the businessman had no problems with anyone. He said Sikhs are feeling insecure as 11 members of their community have been killed in recent years.
The minister for information and religious minorities in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province, where Peshawar is located, assured Sikhs the culprits will be arrested and there will be steps to protect minorities. Feroze Jamal Shah Kakakhel also announced compensation of 500,000 rupees for Singh’s family.
A Christian man, Kashif Maseeh, was shot dead by unknown attackers on Saturday. He was attacked while returning from his job as a cleaner for local authorities.
It was the third targeted killing in two days. Prominent Hindu doctor and eye surgeon Birbal Genani was gunned down in Karachi on Thursday. Police superintendent Zubair Tanoli said Genani received a fatal gunshot to the head.
Religious minorities often face violence in Pakistan, even though the country’s Constitution guarantees them equal rights and the freedom to practice their faith
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6 hours ago, ChardikalaUK said:
As a Keshdhari Sikh it would be better to go to Amritsar given the current political climate. The OP clearly takes his safely seriously and Amritsar would be the safer option, not to mention Delhi has lots of Haryanvi and UP goondas.
I came back from Punjab after spending 4 months. That isn’t the case, you’ll be safe at Delhi if you don’t bring up politics. Similarly, you’ll be unsafe at Amritsar if you bring up current politics.
Haryanvi’s can be quite nice. I know Sikhs living in Haryana and our relations with them are good.1 -
There's also plenty of historical sites to explore in southern portion of Punjab, outside of mainstream Amritsar if you venture into those regions.
Sirhind, Fategarh Sahib and Ropar
- Ucha Pind Sanghol, thousands of years old - east Punjab's Harrapan heritage, ancient Bhuddist stupa's, Gandharan art
- aam-khaas baagh complex
- Bhora Sahib (only surviving Gurdwara portion with original architecture)
- Sultanate era buildings with great stonework
Ludhiana
- Ghanta Ghar
- Really nice and cheap museums (social history & rural life, Maharaja Ranjit Singh war museum
- various Ludhiana forts.
Faridkot
- Tilla Baba Farid
- Kila Mubarak dating back to 1215.
Bathinda
- Kila Mubarak - the oldest and most majestic fort in Punjab with a 19th century Gurdwara at the top
- Hand written hukamnama's of Guru Gobind Sahib stored at Talwandi Sahib
- Smaller forts belonging to local rulers are present in certain tehsils
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13 hours ago, ChardikalaUK said:
You're better off going to Amritsar, travelling from Delhi to Punjab is bloody long! You're looking at around 7 hours to Moga versus 2 from Amritsar. I recommend staying in Amritsar for a few nights when you land to see all the Gurdwaras and historical sites before you go to Moga. I stayed at a hotel called Hotel CJ International, you can actually see the Harmandir Sahib from the rooftop of the hotel.
A lot of people, namely Hindus, speak Hindi in major Punjabi cities like Amritsar, Jalandhar and Ludhiana so try to deal with Sikhs as much as possible. Very few people wear Kurta Pyjamas so stick to western clothes. My wife and I used auto rickshaws in Amritsar with no problems regarding safety.
You could find a hotel in Moga but if you're only there for one or two days then you might as well stay in Ludhiana.
Amritsar airport to Moga is definitely more than 2 hours. It takes a lot longer usually than what's written on Google. Delhi to Punjab can be quite good depending on the route the car takes, some routes have better roads and are quicker. You won't feel tired if you stop along the way as well.
Moga people and generally all southern districts all speak Punjabi, even the local Hindus. Only ones who won't might be Bihari labourers in cities.
People in southern Punjab districts wear more Kurta Pyjamas than other districts, especially if you wear a white one, you'll blend right in.
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12 hours ago, californiasardar1 said:
So it looks like I will not be able to avoid going to Punjab to take care of some business matters related to inherited property.
Long story short, I don't feel comfortable taking rides from relatives or staying at their houses. I do not like my relatives and cannot stomach the thought of relying on them. I would like to stay on my own and travel on my own.
Can you guys please offer some good suggestions on how to travel from Delhi airport to Moga safely and independently? And would a small city like Moga have a decent hotel that I can stay at?
I am primarily concerned about people being able to tell that I am an NRI and trying to take advantage of me.
Also, please keep in mind that I am a sabat soorat Singh. Getting targeted by Indian authorities for no reason may sound like an irrational fear, but I am legitimately concerned that they could lock me up simply for being a singh and throw away the key.
There's bus service called Indo-Canadian operating from Delhi to main cities of Punjab (like Ludhiana). Never tried it but I know people who have and heard it's quite safe and stops along the way at restaurants. From Ludhiana, you can take a local bus to Moga city and book a hotel (don't know much about Punjab hotels as I never stayed in one). You can book online for the bus.
I've travelled to Punjab for a long time, as a local of that area, it's perfectly safe. Just take normal pre-cautions. Local shop food in Punjab is safe to eat if you can handle oil, masala's, etc.
You don't have to worry about being targeted because of being Sabat Soorat. Seen plenty of Sabat Soorat men and Nihangs and no one targets them.
Police are not an issue, they don't bother anyone whose trying to get by their life normally. You can keep a few hundred rupees in your pocket just in case you do get into trouble with them in an unlikely incident.
To blend in,
- Try to dress like a local. Wear a white Kurta-Pajama or simple western clothing
- Pretend you're just visiting from another Indian or Punjab city (don't tell people you're from abroad as you can get overcharged for cheap things)
- Communicate in local Punjabi as much as possible or speak in an Indian accent if you can't. But some NRI's have accents that give it away easily.
- Bargain when you're buying things (apart from food places or if the shop specifically says "fixed price"). Bargaining is great and you can bring down the price by half.
Lastly, just enjoy your stay, there's a lot of history to explore in Punjab too apart from the mainstream/popular places like Wagah border, Harmandir Sahib or Chandigarh.
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On 2/12/2023 at 5:08 AM, Guest Singh001 said:
Where can i get a wedding bana/chola with Kadaeh (Embroidery) around the edges/cuffs.?
Based in the UK but dont mind traveling to Punjab but need to know where to get from? is there any links or images or anything someone can direct me too.
thank you in advance.
You won't find exactly what you're looking for in Punjab. Some people get their outfits customised there. So you can
- buy fabric of your choice from a local shop
- get it dyed from a fabric dyer (very common in Punjab)
- give an embroidery design you want made to artisans
- take that embroidered fabric to be stitched to a tailor
This process can take 2 weeks or more. This can be done in any city of Punjab.
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3 hours ago, ChardikalaUK said:
You don't have to be a musical genius to realise there are many similarities in the two songs.
They're completely different songs. If you think the video may have similarities, then those kind of videos were common in that era for many songs.
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I agree with some of your points and understand where you're coming from regarding Gurdas Maan (he has been quite problematic) However,
- Not all old Baba's keep a long beard and hair. It sometimes depends on regions of Punjab too. Personally, I've come across Sikh Baba's who wore/wear a "Haryanvi"-style white turban and don't keep hair on their heads/long beards. This isn't a recent trend, I've personally seen old black & white photos where Baba's were like that. There are also some old Baba's in villages who are Hindus and some of them don't keep long beards but still wear a turban (as it's cultural, not just religious). So the Baba in Maan's video may be a Hindu? But I agree with you as well, Maan should've showcased more diversity in his video and included several long-bearded Baba's.
- People playing cards in the video are most likely not gambling. Playing cards is a very common pass time for middle aged and old men in rural Punjab and they gather in the evenings to play.
- Regarding the military shown, I understand why Sikhs will have a problem with it due to history. But in reality, most rural Punjabis don't have a problem with the military (experience in southern areas of Punjab). They actively join it and see it a great "career" so that's why Maan showed it in his video. Albeit, the trend has now shifted to moving abroad rather than joining the army.
- Promoting alcohol is very wrong, he shouldn't have endorsed it.
- And I agree, singers/actors need to stop bringing up the partition in every song/movie. We have plenty of history and beautiful Haveli's, Qila's, medieval buildings, ancient/Indus valley civilization sites, etc in east Punjab too that no one bothers to explore/preserve as we're so stuck in pre-partition era. We're neglecting east Punjabi history over the long gone British Punjab.
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9 hours ago, californiasardar1 said:
I haven't been to Punjab in more than a decade and I don't know much about the value of agricultural land these days.
Can somebody give me a ballpark estimate of the value of agricultural land per acre?
Thanks.
It varies. For example, some districts have more expensive land due to better quality soil while others are cheaper.
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7 hours ago, S1ngh said:
Some of them have jorra near top of their head and covered very well. Besides the keski/turban, The more concerning thing is :
Why our Bibian does not cover their head. I found that more concerning.
High buns were quite popular in that era. However, that high-bun look here is created with a dome-shaped jewellery known as a Saghi Ful, which was braided and secured in the hair. Married Punjabi women in the past wore this.
Other than covering their head, some Sikh women also wore large white chadors. This practice used to be common in villages till some decades ago.
These days the push has been towards women wearing turbans. I think many more women would be open to covering their head with scarfs/Dupattā than wearing a turban.
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12 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:
I'm sure this is 90% of this is related to immigration and birth rates.
Thats why Sikhi is fast declining in Punjab. These numbers are nothing to get excited over because when it increases in one country, it decreases in Punjab.
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On 12/21/2021 at 11:53 PM, Jacfsing2 said:
Did Kaurs not wear keski back then, in the 1800s?
No the vast majority didn't wear any sort of turban/keski. A Panjabi Dupattā/Fulkari/scarf was the preferred head covering. A long plait, braids or a high or low buns were common hairstyles.
1890. A Sikh grandmother, her daughter, and granddaughters (Source: Bonham’s auction lot 306.)
1875. Amritsar. Sikh girls enrolled in a school
Early depictions of women at Amritsar painted by William Carpenter in February 1854.
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10 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:
This Karvachauth if I am correct got popularised from Indian Soap operas.
I don't think anyone knew what it was.
It is completely anthethical to Sikhi.
It provides no benefit.
Actually it was kept much before that in Panjab. It was known by a different Panjabi name ("Karue da vart"). The Hindi term "Karvachauth" was popularised through soap operas although the concept of the fast itself existed before that in Panjab. A bunch of other fasts existed in Panjabi society too on punya, masya, etc.
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From the book Sikhs of the Punjab written by R. E. Parry in 1921.
"No one is a Sikh by virtue of birth"
Diet of Sikhs
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37 minutes ago, Jai Tegang! said:
I've watched a few of Pal's videos. I was absolutely shocked that this stuff is so prevelent over there. He went after the Gujjar 'deras' (they practice this to a horrific level by actually handicapping/giving brain injury to kids and then shifting them around their camps' network) but backed off as of late because of the hostility from them. There are gut-wrenching videos of elders kept in captivity at home; migrant laboureres (being the most prevelant class); mentally handicapped locals...and the list goes on. If this stuff happens in Punjab, just imagine the scale of it across India. Probably worse is pakistan I imagine. The weakest are exploited to the max over there.
Is this practice more common in certain districts/areas of Panjab?
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9 hours ago, Premi5 said:
https://www.desiblitz.com/content/lavish-cars-grace-soho-road-for-pre-wedding-procession
@dallysingh101....
Lavish Cars grace Soho Road for Pre-Wedding Procession
Birmingham’s Soho Road turned into a supercar showcase as several luxury cars graced the road as part of a pre-wedding party procession.
August 26, 2022By DHIREN MANGA
their vibrant colours lit up the road and turned heads.
Birmingham’s Soho Road was filled with lavish cars as part of a pre-wedding party procession.
The busy road is home to shops and businesses but it was the setting for a luxury procession which saw a group of men riding motorbikes and leading the procession.
The unnamed men were dressed up for the occasion, sporting sherwanis in dark shades of blue and black.
They also wore matching gold jewellery around their necks.
Their motorbikes contrasted with one another. One was a scooter, another was a vintage bike and a third was a modern sports bike.
They were seen stopping on the side of the road to wait for the rest of the pre-wedding procession.
A classic jeep drove down Soho Road. It was in army green and adorned with red, orange and yellow garlands.
Several convertible Lamborghini Aventadors were also part of the procession and their vibrant colours lit up the road and turned heads.
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One was in the famous yellow that Lamborghini is known for.
Another was in a bold shade of purple while a third was in bright green.
All three stopped on the side of the road, showing off the iconic scissor doors.
Meanwhile, locals were seen stopping what they were doing to take pictures of the stunning supercars.
The extravagance continued as a Rolls-Royce Cullinan followed the supercars.
But unlike the brightly-coloured Lamborghinis, the Rolls-Royce was black.
It was a Black Badge edition, which is a more sporty version, designed with enhanced torque, power and control.
The four men later posed in front of the purple Aventador, looking proud of the fact that they had just led such a lavish pre-wedding procession.
The fleet eventually arrived at the destination. They were parked outside the destination, showcasing their grandeur.
Expensive cars are a common feature within modern Asian weddings.
Several are hired by family members and are driven in a convoy to the wedding as a way of portraying luxury.
This is one example which shows that no expense is spared to ensure that a wedding is a memorable, yet flamboyant event.
When it comes to South Asian weddings, competitiveness between families is always a huge thing.
Families are always looking to have a bigger wedding than the last person.
What's the point of these cars in big Asian weddings? They're probably rented so it's a bit weird showing off something you don't even own.
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On 8/23/2022 at 8:34 PM, MisterrSingh said:2
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3 hours ago, PuzzledToo said:I would not say the girl wasn't scared in the video or imply in any way that it was consensual. That is the usual talking point of the suls and they have already made videos on youtube claiming just that. She seems disoriented and under duress.
Abducted girls are definitely given something or really brainwashed before making the video. You can note that in many cases and in the above video I linked. It's a recurring pattern, they can't all be consensual.
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Pakistan: Sikhs in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa protest as Islamists forcibly convert a female Sikh teacher and perform her nikaah
On Sunday, her family members knew about the forced marriage and subsequent conversion. The family reached the police station where nobody cared to register their complaint.
In another incident of flouting human rights in Pakistan, a female Sikh teacher was forcibly converted by Islamists in Peer Baba of the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (KPK) province of Pakistan on Saturday 20th August 2022. The Sikhs in the KPK province are protesting against this forced conversion. A video of the protests appeared on Twitter on Sunday, 21st August 2022, in which Sikhs can be seen protesting and raising various slogans outside a police station in Pakistan.
According to a report by Aaj Tak, a young female teacher from the Sikh community was allegedly kidnapped on Saturday, and on the next day, her family was informed that the young girl is now married to a Muslim person. There is deep resentment in the Sikh community due to this incident.
Dina Kaur, a Sikh teacher was kidnapped on Saturday. On Sunday, her family members knew about the forced marriage and subsequent conversion. The family reached the police station where nobody cared to register their complaint. According to the family members, the local police have not registered any FIR and have asked the Sikhs to be silent on this issue.
BJP leader Manjinder Singh Sirsa has expressed concern over this incident. Tagging the government of Pakistan in his tweet, Sirsa said, “How can a family silently watch its daughters being forcibly converted and emotionally exploited? This is against basic human rights and we stand in support of the Sikh brothers of Pakistan. I urge India’s External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar Ji to intervene in this matter.”
He added, “I urge the External Affairs Minister to hold talks on the issue of minority Sikhs in Pakistan. Pakistan’s Prime Minister’s Office is also not paying attention to this. Our earlier tweets on the safety of Sikhs in Pakistan have been ignored.”
Persecution of Sikhs in Pakistan
Earlier in May 2022, two Sikhs were killed in Peshawar, Pakistan. In that case, a strong protest was lodged by India. At that time, the spokesperson of the Indian Government said, “We have seen reports of the brutal killing of two Sikh traders by unidentified armed men in Peshawar. Sadly, this is not the first incident. Even before this, there have been attacks on Sikhs, a minority community in Pakistan.”
https://www.opindia.com/2022/08/pakistan-sikhs-protest-islamists-forcibly-convert-teacher/
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1 hour ago, dallysingh101 said:
Do you have an online link to the full book?
No I lost the website.
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On 8/22/2022 at 7:28 PM, dallysingh101 said:
As I recall, before the late 80s, celebrating Sikh marriages (maybe from a Tarkhan perspective?) used to be quite sombre affairs for the men, who'd be sitting separately, usually in another room, with maybe a few of them discreetly drinking - there was no bhangra.
Marriages in Panjab were quite simple too until NRI's started the extravagance culture. This gradually caught on in other areas.
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On 8/22/2022 at 7:28 PM, dallysingh101 said:Great find!
Explains why I didn't see any bhangra growing up until I was a young teenager and the bhangra scene 'blew up' in the UK, partly as a haven from widespread racism and the exclusion of brown folks. But as expressed in the above, I did routinely see the women do giddah and boliyan at private wedding celebrations though.
As I recall, before the late 80s, celebrating Sikh marriages (maybe from a Tarkhan perspective?) used to be quite sombre affairs for the men, who'd be sitting separately, usually in another room, with maybe a few of them discreetly drinking - there was no bhangra. And there were a few Jut 'uncles' at these events too. I didn't see any of them prancing about. The whole demeanour of blokes back then wasn't excessively exuberant and fudhoo like today.
Then about this time (whether incidentally or not, some of our people began to dominate the booze tekha industry, with both off licenses and warehouses and inter-continental smuggling), this (to me), new boisterous, boozed up, partying jamboree style of wedding celebration emerged. (It emerged in parallel to the growth of 'bhangra bands' like Alaap, Chirag Pehchaan and Heera). I know some of the readers will be butt hurt from me saying this, but a particular jaat would explicitly say 'this is how we do things' as a marker of differentiation (take a wild guess who......). At that young age, it seemed fun and exciting to me, the way I'd grown up seeing weddings celebrated seemed dry and boring in comparison. Fast forward a few decades - this way of celebrating had become a norm in the wider community. Mainly because I think our lot have that weird complex of not wanting to feel left out and trying to keep up or upstage each other, most especially at weddings. That reserve I saw older apnay blokes having seems like a a dream now.
To me, it's gone from being a relatively harmless and fun way of privately celebrating - into some jaloose, public exhibitionism by apnay and apneean. The UK is probably responsible for starting the trend, but as we can see from Canada right now - it could get much worse here. It needs to be checked for a variety of reasons - not least of all because it puts females on platters for predators.
Also, I might as well add this here now, the other week, I had to pass through a late night card game, I was there for a few minutes and the majority of people there were from 'across the border'. What I saw was that they had scantily clad Bollywood dancing b1tches doing their routines on a big screen in the room while playing. We don't want to go down this route.
Our elders discouraged Bhangra too, I never saw them partaking in it.
Weddings in India started getting out of hand due to people imitating big fat Bollywood-type parties with performances. Everything was more simple before. Even today, sometimes men and women sit seperate at parties.
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Appalling treatment of 'worker' in rural Panjab. ਦੇਖੋ ਕਿਵੇ ?? ਇਹ ਦਰਿੰਦੇ ਬਾਪ ਪੁੱਤ ਇਕ ਮਾਸੂਮ ਦੀਆਂ ਦੋਨੋ ਲੱਤਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਸੰਗਲ ਲਗਾਕੇ ਉਸ ਤੇ ਜ਼ੁਲਮ ਕਰਦੇ ਸੀ..
in WHAT'S HAPPENING?
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Appalling behaviour! I have heard from people in Panjab that this is more common in "Majha" region as women there traditionally don't engage in agricultural or animal-related work. Women of Malva take care of animals (milking and feeding cows/buffaloes and picking up their waste) while it's traditionally a man's job in Majha culture.