B Singh1

I'm sure there was recent story that some girls, I think Muslim, forced a crisp company to say whether their crisps had any meat products in them. Again, I don't fully recall the detail, but I'm sure it turned out that the meat flavour ones were actually free of meat products and the Salt & Vinegar, Ready Salted, & Cheese & Onion did have something. I have to say, dono why anyone wants to eat Prawn & Cocktail, they seriously stink.

lol let me point something out ji. Learn to read between the lines. That was put up to silence that prat persona who seems to have nothing original to say but uses his brain when it suits him. If you have something to say against the points made above, then lets please hear them??? Fateh

Ha ha ha. What a joker you are. I'm a little disappointed with you Randip, especially as you have never taken this up with me when I use to post on your forum. How dare you tell us that we are twisted. Like you are the only one with a brain. Your not even worth the time in day

Nirvair Khalsa Ji, Quote: That is true, but the physical form of a Sant that is referred to in Gurbani at times is the one who enlightens people to follow Gurmat, receive Amrit and reiterate the name of Vaheguroo. A Sant is one that attaches a being to worship the one Akaal Purakh and accept Sahib Sree Guroo Granth Sahib Jee Maharaaj as their one and only master, the living SathGuroo, not attach any person to their own feet and to worship them. But my dear Nirvair Khalsa Ji, Firstly, at no point have I lectured to you but merely endeavored to give a fuller meaningful reply that I hope adds some value to the debate. Please do not make claims that I am distorting Sikhi, if there are alternate meanings, then lets please hear them. Whilst I agree that a Sant is one that attaches worship to God and not himself I disagree on other points 1) What you seem to be missing is that it is the SGGSJi that is directing us to go to Sants / Sadhs, why would it do that if all that was meant to happen was for the Sant / Sadh to send us straight back to the SGGSJi?? Just to take one quote from many as to why the SGGSJi directs us to go to the Sant / Sadh…. ‘Sadh sang bhae aagiaakaaree, Saadh sang gat bhaee hamaaree’ (In the company of Saints, we become capable of obeying God’s commandments. In the company of Saints we are eternally delilvered.) 2) It is the SGGSJi that affords Sant / Sadhs the treatment as if they are on a par with God. I know Sikhs have a hangover about matha tekking to Saints, but it is the SGGSJi that says 'Charan Sadh ke dhoe dhoe peeo, Arap sadh kau apana jeeo' (Wash the feet of holy Saints and drink the wash, dedicate your life to the holy Saint) 3) Clearly, the status being afforded to the living Guru / Saint / Sadh in the SGGSJi and in the Bani of Saints not included in the SGGSJi is to treat them on a par with God. But more importantly, your view of what a Saint should do is not supported by the SGGSJi. It is completely at odds with what is written in the SGGSJi. Quote: Someone who labels themselves as a Sant, distorts Sikhi and attaches people to their own feet to be worshiped, is not any Sant in Sikhi, but a Gudhaar Pappee of the Panth! 4) You seem to be missing that Sants come from all backgrounds. Muslim, Hindu, Sikhs etc. Just because the SGGSJi has been installed it does not mean that they are papee for doing what culturally has gone on for 1000s of years and has the stamp of approval of SGGSJi. Quote: These organisations and those who head them are not faiths or “ways of living” (what Radha Soami's claim), but cults funded and supported by enemies of the Panth. I speak for Maharaz Darshan Das Ji. Anybody with half a brain who bothers to do a little study on his material & miracles performed can only come to one conclusion that the Man is a Prophet of God. 5) Ps I noticed you didn’t refer to me by my name. What a joke I must say, you might have a point if the Singh name was something Sikhs could claim a right to. Singh was in use for 100’s if not 1000’s of years before Sikhs came to be. Sadly, it is quite typical for people of all religion to reduce common heritage to a state of personal wealth. mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan Quote sir, I can tell from your post that either you are very brainwashed or refuse to see the truth which you keep exposing in your posts. You are on the right track but refuse to listen to your own words. We both know that is not true. There may be fake masters, but that is not a reason for ignoring what is clearly stated in the SGGSJi. Quote: You say that one needs gurmantr to contemplate or experience Naam. What do you think The shabads from Sri guru granth sahib are? They are Dhur ki Baani, God's own worsd, what gurmantr are you searching for? The gurmantr you are looking for is used from Sri Guru Granth sahib by your "masters" and fake gurus. How are thes modern sadhus masters when they give you Gurmantr from Sri Guru Granth Sahib? Again, these are not reasons for not doing what is stated in the SGGSJi. It is no good ignoring other sections of the SGGSJi. Bani should be read in unison. As for modern Sadhus, it is nonsensical to imply that post installation of SGGSJi there can never be any further Sants / Sadhus who are enlightened Mahapurash. Peace. Fateh.

mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan Naam not a tangible thing Which is why I say in my post above that the Naam from the Sadhu / Sant enables us to attach to the Unhad Bani which is the infinite Naam you are referring to. In once sense you are right in that the Sadhu points to the Agam Naam, but how? Not by sticking up signposts – but blessing the Bhagat with a Shabad or also referred to as Guru Mantar. GuruBani speaks of Naam in these two ways and recognises the role of the Sadhu / Sant and God. Both have a role to play. Sant get us to Jap Naam and God gives us Mukhti. Firstly – Spoken Naam given by the Sadhu ‘Kabir Seva meh Dhoeh (both) Bhaleh, Ik Sant, Ik Ram (God) Ram joh Dhatah Mukhat Koh, Sant JAPAVAN Naam’ This is a reference to the tangible Naam, because the Sadhu cannot get us to Jap on the Agam Naam. That is something we achieve through our own devotion. The Sadhu Naam is the first rung of the ladder. Through regular meditation on this, you attach yourself to the Unhad Bani (the final rung of the ladder) Secondly – Infinite Naam – This is at times referred to as Unhad Bani. Because it is Divine Melodious Sound. It does not have a form but is perceived by the Soul through regular devotion or contemplation on the tangible Naam. You are right this is already within all of us, but to activate it we require the Guru Manter from one who is already attached. The Perishable Of course the Sadhu dies. In the World of five elements, nothing is stable. The Sikh Gurus are also not around today, the physical form of the SGGSJi also comes to pass. The physical self is merely a point of focus that leads to attachment to the Jyort to which the Gurus were attached and to which a Perfect Sant Mahapurash is also attached. This is the proper way to understand the Gurus. It is the Jyort that is the Guru not the physical body. Sachi Bhagtee Again the devotion is to the Jyort. The physical form is merely a beacon to a stricken ship. Otherwise, we must accept that those Sikhs who showed utter devotion to the Sikh Gurus wasted their time, simply because they are not around today. In conclusion, we are back to the original question, do we misread words like Sadhu or do we read the the Guru Bani to understand that it recognises the two roles. That of a Sadhu and that of God. The choice is yours. What is Sachi Bhagtee In answer to your question and with regards to the passages you quote – (p427 -9) Sachee Bhagtee is Unadulterated Devotion. Just as a virgin bride celebrates her Sahaag at the feet of her Husband, the Soul Bride celebrates her union with her Beloved Creator. ‘Atam moheh Parmathma, perah (feet) Sath Sadah Sahaagan’ To achieve this union we must be prepared to do the ultimate battle, not with unarmed people outside, but with the Universal Enemy (the Mind and its Henchmen). This is how we must demonstrate Warriorhood. Hence, ‘Bhagtee Kareh Koi Soormah, Jaath Varn Kul Koe, Khamee, Khrodee, Lalchee, Inseh Bhagtee Nah Hohee’ Exploitation of Sikh Naam Firstly, Naam is mentioned in the Banis of Non Sikh Saints that forms part of the SGGSJi. The SGGSJi was not around for them to be able to take advantage of Satnaam, so ask yourself where did they get their Naam from?? Secondly, the Scriptures state that ‘Shabad Durtee, Shabad Akas, Shabad Shabad Bhaya Bharkas’ (Apologies if I misstate the words in the above line), what this is saying is that all of creation emanates from the Shabad (Infinite Naam). Since this was around at the dawn of time, how can anyone be exploiting the Sikh religion. WaheGuru Je Ka Khalsa WaheGuru Je Ke Fateh

Lion(LK)King Yeah ok, well I don’t purport to be an expert on Banis and page references. The point is that you know it is there. In response I have read it many times. A Sadhu is Sadhu (a holy man), that is the common language meaning of the word. You don’t need to go to Punjab University for that. Ask anyone on the street and you will get the same response. In the English translations of Gurubani it has been misstated as meaning Sadh Sangat. But even if you accept it is Sadh Sangat, a Sadh again is a holy person. Sadh in actual fact is someone who has done Sadhnah (Baghtee). Also, take this translation from – http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?S=y Maajh, Fifth Mehl: 5. - p. 101 naam a-ukhaDh mo ka-o saaDhoo dee-aa. The Holy Saint has given me the Medicine of the Naam. In this instance it has been translated correctly. If the word means general congregation then why is it understood to be different in common language? It is not the Namdharies, Radhaswamies or Darshan Dassis who are twisting Gurubani, the onus is on the Sikhs to explain why this is being misread. If Sikhs want Sadhu to mean Sanghat because it is more in line with their beliefs, that’s fine. But please don’t accuse others of twisting Bani. 1- Nanakian philosophy (Gurmat) is completly different from Hindu mythology.. Just because Guru Ji used the word Singh -lion lol doesn't mean he copied it from an avtar of Vishnu. Jesus Christ, what's next - why was Guru Harkrishan Je's name Harkrishan.. the name probably exists in the vedas... does tha mean he's a vedist? Nothing nonsensical about what I have stated. The point I make is that when something new comes out, there will always be some resonance from the past. The same is true about Sikhism and the point is made to those who accuse others of using their religion when much in their own beliefs has been taken from the past. With regards to Singh / Lion, I won’t debate this as it is fairly common knowledge that the whole concept of Singh comes from Narsingh. Not just the name but from what happened historically. Please do you research. Just as the VULNERABLE child Saint Parladh was saved by Righteousness in the form of Vishnu manifesting as NarSingh to destroy the evil of Harnahshak, in the same way G. Gobind Singh Ji said my followers will be Singhs & take on the mantle of protecting the needy, the vulnerable, the Saints etc. Also, to make references such as Hindu mythology denounces others beliefs as mere myths. I don’t think that is right. Especially, as the Guru (10th), acknowledges the 24 Incarnations. 2- The bani of Bhagat Kabir Ji per say, is not in Guru Sahib.. Only Dhur Ki Bani by Gurdev Pita ji can be found in Maharaj. nonsensicle arguments. Please revise. Sorry I don’t understand what you mean by that?? This further illustrates the point that I make above - The Bani was revealed to Kabir and forms part of his substantial holy book referred to as the Granthvali. Sections of Kabir’s bani are repeated in the SGGSJi. It is the Sikhs who claim that you can only be a liberated Sikh upon taking Kandeh dhar Amrit and yet this is not supported by the scriptures of non Sikh contributors, (even if you claim it is supported in the Bani of the Gurus). So who is twisting whose religion / scriptures?? mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan Outside of sikhi, people can do what they want, they can have a plant as a guru for all sikhs care. People outside of sikhi have no right to lecture sikhs on who their master's can be. You do your thing and let sikhs do their thing. I am merely responding to claims by Sikhs. With that thought in mind remember it is Sikhs; who disrupt our meetings. In the 1980’s in Derby I think, an unarmed sevak for no reason at all had his nose half sliced off with a sword attack. No doubt that Sikh will be receiving a gold medal from the Guru. sher_panjabi 'Baani Guru, Guru hai Baani. Vich Baani Amrit saarey… The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nectar [God's Name] is contained.' [Ang 982] But of course the Bani is the Guru, after all it is a revelation of God. The Ambrosial Nectar is realised by some through kirtan. That is not the issue here. The question in play is where does Naam come from? Naam that enables us to attach ourselves to the subtle ‘Unhad Bani’ (the manifestation of Shabad Guru). Historically, it has come from Living Saints. Sikhs claim that for them it comes from the SGGSJi and accuse others of being fake, pakandi and all the rest of the garbage. But the onus is on Sikhs to explain why the opposite is stated in the SGGSJi?? The position of Sikhs can only be explained by misinterpreting words like Sadhu, Sadh & Sant etc. Pakandi Baba Hilarious is your utter ignorance. I tell you what, let me re-read a section of history to you with your blissful blinkered ignorance. The 10th Guru said that he will make ‘One fight against Sava Lakh’, yet when he left Anandpur and was attacked he barely managed to save himself. It is ironic is it not to claim the strength of lions and yet not be prepared to go back and even save members of your own family, let alone your followers’. How can anyone claim faith in such an individual?? I think you get the point. Guru Fateh.

Well I must say that some of these replies are interesting, but most are trash not worth replying to. Let me pick on a few points - Firstly the assertion that Naam comes from SGGSJi, namely WaheGuru and for that reason there is no need for a living master. If that is the case then why is the opposite stated in the Sukhmani Sahib - '..Prahbu kirpal kirpa kareh, Naam Nanak Sadhu Sang Mileh'... A Sadhu is a living master. Oh I have heard the arguments that such words should be read as referring to the Sangat when in plural and God when in Singular. But nobody explains why?? As for Darshan Das only taking from the SGGSJi and not having anything of his own, has anybody actually taken the time to read His written material?? No need to reply cuz we all know the answer. His writings contain much in the way of divine knowledge some of which is not to be found outside. But by the same token, Hindus can surely argue that Sikhs have nothing original of their own - E.g. Singh taken from Vishnu Avatar NarSingh, the word Khalsa first appears in the bani of saint Kabir, SGGSJi substantially made up of scriptures from Non Sikh contributors. THe point is that anyone can be cynical and ignorent for such is the bliss of ignorence.