singh1986

Just had this poster passed around amongst Sangat in the Midlands and Up North... Not sure how this has been allowed to happen and continue? Are there any actual active Panthic Sikhs or groups in Southall, Slough, Wembley, Ilford, Hounslow etc? Why the wait for a protest? Why are we not just going in as previous dialogue methods have failed? Any context would be great as we had a similar issue in Birmingham once and nobody waited for an organised protest. We are looking to drive up tonight, but not entirely sure why local Sikhs are waiting?

I heard recently that he has now converted back to Buddhism because of the discrimination he faced from punjabi community? Very sad if this is true.

I noticed a growing number of 3rd/4th generation kids who grew up going to Ravidasia Gurdwaras and Sangat converting on mass. All my peers that I went to school with wouldn't call themselves Sikhs, but then were ridiculed even by Goray for not knowing what religion if anything they were... Some called themselves Hindu but a sister from the same family would be Sikh. This confusion I feel has been exploited by Muslims, Christians etc who have targeted people who practice something that has no real structure, interpretations or offical name? It's literally different from each Bhawan to Gurdwara to Centre/Temple. I'd rather these people stay somewhat connected to Sikhi, but it looks like thier families and parents and continuing in this trajectory of separating from Sikhi but take thier kids into no man's land with no logic or sense. Which then gets exploited by the Dawah givers who quote bani back to them and point out how thier parents and community themselves don't follow the scriptures they attach themselves too, or have any real history as a organised religion. Surely, those Ravidasia people living in the UK atleast can see what this is doing to thier kids? When you even look at thier sangat, it's older people, hardly any youth because I genuinely think they don't want to associate with the Bhavans (or whatever they call them). Anyone from the community on this forum? Where is your head at? Surely you see what I see?

The fact he killed 3 and fought off another armed with knives and hammers.... the court heard he went "Bruce lee" style and 3 were dead within 13 seconds all proven to be self defence. Does he teach shaster vidya? Where has he learnt it from? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8849961/Indian-overstayer-person-UK-face-no-charges-self-defence-triple-killing.html

I used to have the same perception about moving back to Punjab however when other relatives have done it or gone for a few months there are harsh realities which they struggled to.cope with. What career opportunities are better? Firstly you have to think about it from a historical perspective, had your family stayed would they have survived the extra judicial killings of the Punjab Police and widespread murder? I am presuming your family has some keshdhari Sikhs? My Thaya and Chacha were both taken from thier homes in the early 90s and we still dont know what happened to them. Events like that could easily happen again and then you will have to contend with widespread State racism and discrimination. However, moving back to Punjab today as it is you have to put yourself in the position of a citizen of Punjab. God forbidden you need to get married or do anything that needs officially being registering etc... you will need to become comfortable with paying back handers, slow govt bureaucracy and endless paperwork. I am also presuming you would want to go college/uni or get a job? Well if you dont meet the caste quotas you have no chance. The "upper castes" will probably never get accepted for govt jobs etc. The caste system is deeply embedded in Hindu India. For private jobs a requisite seems to be speak fluent Hindi and dont even think about having a dhumulla or open beard (if your male). Then you have the chances of a riot/govt shut down or some other effigy burning mob that happen regularly in urban India (that's if you were thinking of opening a business). Along with that comes with political turmoil every so often that hit the cities more, whether that is Ram Raheem supporters rioting or when the Radboswamis get agitated or because some young girl got raped. Living in a growing Hindu Fascist state is not going to be easy and it will hit rural Sikhs. You have to also consider issues such as rape, high death rate on Punjab roads in comparison to UK, drug abuse and bringing your family up in this environment. My family in India avoid any roads after 7pm as after dark there is a high possibility of fatalities. Also in rural areas of Punjab the level of pollution is much higher than urban areas in the UK. Your spending power will be less should you ever wish to move abroad again or visit family. Working in June/July heat is tough, even in an office job or farming. If your intention is rural farming if you are planning to work then most Punjabis need to realise the water table in Punjab is significantly decreasing year on year... and the Indian Govt will always divert water to Delhi/Haryana. I have seen predictions of the agricultural industries in Punjab starting to fail within 20/30 years. For me going to Punjab on a Holiday and living and working there is very different! Most rural Sikh Punjabis use cheap labour from Bihar to do the heavy lifting with agricultural work. Personally I'm always surprised to see how idle they are in my family. I do agree Punjab has significantly changed over the past 5 years even, but ultimately it's still full of corruption, bureaucracy and an illiberal democracy governed by Hindu Nationalists. It's too volatile of a place to emigrate too.

Does Aum/Om manter have any relevance in Sikhi? I have recently been drawn to listening to it play in the background as I'm working... just a simple human voice. I cant seem to find anything Sikhi related with just a voice with very little sound effects, music or instruments? I have noticed in some Hindu Households they are playing various Manters at low frequency. Do we have any Audios out there of a similar ilk? Example -

I've noticed that alot of Muslim actors are having to play overtly Hindu roles to stay relevant and liked within Indian Media. Salman Khan is prime example of this... pretty much very film he makes now he plays a Hindu character and his films have been mega hits at the Indian box office. But in regards to Maratha/Sikh relationship it highlights the lack of cooperation within modern day India. Ultimately why would the Sikhs trust Marathis, they put Adina Beg in power over Sikh territories which the Sikhs helped them to conquer. Also in later years Marathis proped up the failing Mughal Empire and supported small proxy wars agaisnt Sikh Misls. Its interesting to note after the 3rd Anglo Marathi War... the Marathis seeked refugee with Maharaja Ranjit Singh. I think Bollywood will struggle to make a historical accurate film under the trend of Hindi extremism. It's often forgotten by them how many Mandirs Marathis sacked and looted to fund thier campaigns. For example those protected by Tipu Sultan

I wanted to understand the relationship and history of these 2 Sikh Contemporaries. I have heard of various stories that they didnt get along issues such as the creation of Bandai Khalsa and that a leaf was dropped in the sarovar of Harmander Sahib that would decide who the real Guru of the Sikhs was... is that true? Heard about Baba Deep Singh Ji abandoning Baba Banda Singh Bahadur as the Mughals were closing in... But then again I heard they never joined forces as Baba Deep Singh Ji didnt agree with the way Baba Banda Singh Bahadur conquered Mughal areas. Not sure what is true. Is there any fact based historical accounts of what happened?

I just wanted to enquire whether there was any meanings or reasons for the designs (mosaics) we see around the parikarma of Darbar Sanib? I believe one is called the flower of life? Or Any other historical Gurdwaray in India. Who chose them?

Imagine if a black or white Sikh was reading this thread lol. A lot of generalisations. There are hundreds of different ethnic/cultural/national groups amoungst black/white people. All have different schools of thought, Faith and History. We got to be careful not to make sweeping statements.

I used to think it was just black cats and Indian Govt dressing people up as Sikhs to Kill Hindus. But then recently I met a Kharkhu Singhs family and they confirmed that some Sikhs in these groups were so angry and because they were getting no support from fellow Hindu Punjabis they resorted to violence against local Hindus. BUT it was really low level and these Sikhs were often dealt with by other Sikhs or the Indian authorities themselves. It eventually got worse towards the end of the 80's as there was no control over youth joining the Khalistan movement. HOWEVER, Nothing in comparison to what black cats were actually doing and miniscule in comparison to how many Sikhs lost their lives. Either way those who killed innocent Hindus where dealt with... And killers of innocent Sikhs walk free.

Bump

I have heard the term Nanaksar and GNNSJ used interchangeably. I was wondering whether they represent the same group, view points and Sants. In addition, what has been the opinion of Nanaksar Sikhs regarding the Khalistan movement and the problems in Punjab in the 80s? Do they support the cause of people like Bhai Surat Singh?

In my opinion: I would not vote Conservative because David Cameron refused to have an independent enquiry into the role of British Government in operation Blue Star and has refused to release more classified information which could prove the guilt of the Indian government. He also refused to apologise for Jallanwalla Bagh and just "regretted" the incident... Therefore for me he has let down Sikhs the most as a PM especially when Professor Bhullar/Kesri Lehar protests where happening. Sikhs were just simply ignored. Add the fact we were also ignored by Tories when they put the Gandhi statue up... So for me Tories have done absolutely nothing for Sikhs and I can't believe any Sikh will want to vote for them. I won't vote UKIP because lets face it... They are a party of closet racists. Everyone knows it, they have BNP, EDL, Britain First, NF, white supremacists type people amongst their ranks and campaigning for them. And a huge disproportionate amount of racist sound bites come from their candidates. They don't want to increase minimum wage but even scrap it. Stop foreign aid... (Which is only 0.7% of budget...Most candidates are Tory defectors. They want to get rid of maternity/paternity leave and remove race discrimination law, remove Human Rights Act - so a Sikh could be deported to India for terrorism charges even though there might be risk of torture, unfair trial. Thereafter I think it depends on ur local MP and what they stand for... Some Labour/Lib Dem MPs have been fantastic in supporting Sikh causes. Parmjit Singh Gill for example the Lib Dem candidate teamed up with Lord Singh pushing for some sort of enquiry when British involvement in Operation Blue Star happened. Tom Watson (Labour -West Brom) was one of few MPs that bought it up in Parliament and challenged the coward David Cameron to conduct an Independent Enquiry, which he never did. On the other hand you have Labour MPs like Keith Vaz who also pushed for Gandhi Statue in his constituency and just stops short of calling Sikhs extremists, along with Sharma from Southall... Why do Sikhs keep voting them in!?!?! I think Sikhs need to really think about whether your MP has actually been there and supported Sikhs.. look at their policies and where they remained quiet. These past 5 years have been huge for Sikhs in terms of UK politics... Now it's time to punish those that never gave us any support.

TBH It happens so much now. I think those Sikhs that want the Hukamnamma to respected have lost the battle. The amount of protests and meetings Sikhs attend with Committee wallay... They promise not to do it again and then its back to square 1. The committee does it again. Nobody respects the Hukamnamma... you even have usually devout Sikhs willingly pushing the agenda if inter-faith marriage. Leicester has a big problem... All Gurdwaray, don't do the checks... Had to deal with a Gujji guy boast about his cousin marrying a Sikh girl and the "gyanis" and "Khalibans" couldn't do anything about it!!! Sad state of affairs.

I think they sing what sells to make a living... you had Miss Pooja and I think Lembher are not Jatt .... but sing songs bigging up Jatts because thats where the demand is and what sells... the lyrics regarding Caste, sharaab etc doesnt necessarily mean the singer endorses the lyrics... or even believes what they are singing... Miss Pooja is a known Ravidasia follower!!! The blame does not belong with the singers but Punjabi community! Compare Diljit's dharmic album sales and his Jatt filled stuff... where does he earn a living? I think we need to look at the Punjabi community that buys and demands these songs... if there was no demand there would be no supply. Kharku song from a sikh perspective is not good! but look how long it was number 1? I fully understand the OP in stating that its kinda hypocritical but Diljit has done more for Sikhi in his songs and image with dastaar (albeit trimmed) then say Gurdass Mann or Malkit Singh IMO... He has full keshdhari singhs in his dharmic videos and most of the time he probably makes a loss on such releases. In addition it will be interesting to see his new film about 1984 and how he challenges the Indian Government... this is the first high profile punjabi singer that is making such a film. I understand how people view him as not a role model in Sikhi... but hes doing more than 95% of other singers,... and I dont think he considers himself to be any sort of Sikh based role model... I know he would feel uncomfortable should any associate him as being a role model for Sikhs... However, I think we should support him more on his Sikhi based projects like his new film 1984 and albums... having met Diljit Singh I can confirm he is panthically aware and fully respects Sikhi... neither does he follow any deray baba or sing for them like most other high profile singers do...

I don't know where even to start with the op. How can Sikhs be proud of being "Indian" when India and its constitution doesn't even fully recognise Sikhism as a separate religion! If you want to be proud of India you give up your identity of being a Sikh... so what are you!?... a proud Indian or a Sikh?! I know what I'd rather be... In addition, the continuous betrayal and subjugation such as the fact we had to literally spill blood to get Punjabi recognised as a state language and we want Punjabi's in turn to be thankful to India? The Slaughter of generations of Sikh youth with no support from the Indian State and its Judiciary. Things like specifically banning Sikhs from attending the 1982 Asian Games and imprisoning them should they be on a train to Delhi... imagine if the British Govt banned Sikhs from attending London during the Olympics, would we be thankful to Britain!? The Sikh Genocide in 84!? The murder/rape/torture of thousands of people in Punjab in the 80/90's... I mean the list is literally endless... I could go on and on and on... This is over and beyond 1984 there have been a lot more things India has done and been responsible for that makes me cringe should any associates me with India. I don't hate India or the Indian people... but I feel betrayed and would never want to be associated with such a nation and its discriminatory polices against my religion and people from my ethnic/linguistic background. Also I would like to point out that it is a common misconception that India is/was one united mass... before the British came the area was divided into nations and Kingdoms on linguistic, cultural and religious basis. You don't see all the Southern African nations uniting into one nation just because they were ruled by the British! For some reason people find it acceptable to be ruled by a government that doesn't speak your language, different culture, religion, food, norms and values as acceptable?! The Indian Government doesn't represent Punjabi's and certainly not Sikhs...

So sad... wish there was something someone could do for her! Or stop her... depression is such horrible illness.

I think its really important to keep ekta on at least this one event. As more orgs are pledging support to the 8th June.... please humble benti to the other event organisers! Stick to the 8th...!!! :waheguru: We need everyone to stick together!!!

I forgot about this thread! What a difference a few months make! It looks like Tommy Robinson himself agrees that the EDL is full of nazi racist extremists that kept getting invited back into the organisation and now run the organisation… that was pretty obvious in the first place… If the Sikh Defence League does still exist somewhere I wonder how they going to stand with these now completely outed white supremacists and racists?! I have a feeling that the cynics will say Tommy has been bought or become or muslim or something or black magic even! However, he has chosen to join a moderate muslim organisation called Quilliam Foundation that look to fight Islamic extremism… I think I stated previously that there is such a thing as moderate muslims/imams in UK, which people found hard to believe. They really do exist! People like Imam Ibrahim Mogra that regularly speaks out agaisnt grooming etc. Also here is an organisation that everyone can support to fight Islamic extremism rather than shouting “who the f is allah” in a town centre. More Constructive what they do in my opinion. Just briefly reading through all the posts people made from the Quran that they claim means Islam is evil, moderate Imams would state that those quotes are not applicable to muslims in these times/countries etc they would put them in a different time context!? and they would counteract those quotes with other ones that mean the exact opposite! I mean if some of the people quoting on here actually spoke to an Imam (which I am not, nor do I rep Islam) they would maybe stop hating muslims so much... Also I have yet to find a Sufi Muslim that does not believe in Mohammad, how is that even possible?! Sufi Muslims also read the Quran!!!. Also it looks like basics of Sikhi guy Jagraj Singh I think his name is saying Guru Hargobind Ji built a Mosque – if this is such inaccurate info from an obviously learned Sikh then I wish someone would correct him and also correct the Nihangs of Tarna Dal… I’m inclined to listen to the views of Singhs/kaurs that evidently have a higher level of knowledge than me. And Tandoori the issue about non-halal meat the only meat being prohibited in Sikhi is really being pushed in this thread by you to justify anti-Muslim arguments. (thought this was against forum rules?!). I personally look to the rehit of Damdami Taksal (hate mentioning Jathay) but I am against eating all forms of meat in Sikhi. But your gyan of Sikhi might be more than the majority of the rehit followed and handed down to Sikhs. I’m unwilling to accept non Halal Meat as acceptable. In my opinion all forms of animal slaughter is barbaric for you Halal seems to be only barbaric. Also Proactive Ji I refer to a book called “Hari Singh Nalwa Champion of the Khalsa” that states Azaan was only banned for a short time in some areas to stop extremists preachers otherwise as stated previously the Sikh Raaj was tolerant and allowed the Azaan. I request you to provide one reputable source from a non Muslim that the Azaan had a blanket ban!? Another poster mentioned Sikh Raaj was renowed for being tolerant. I would like apologise for referring to Guru Hargobind Ji with Singh at the end, it was done in error as I typed in haste. Im sorry if anyone else found that offensive or for anything else I have typed in error or caused offence. I dont proof read before posting and am error prone!

A true Jain would never be patriotic of being "Indian"! That's an Oxymoron. Why would a true Jain ever feel part of nation that has been responsible for the deaths millions of innocent people and the desecration of religious shrines!? A nation that doesn't recognise your faith in full?! A nation where one party BJP backed by Hindu hardliner thugs and the other Congress promotes Rapists/Murders like Sajjan Kumar?! A true jain would be patriotic of India?! Seriously!? Its a shame that Jains have allied themselves so close to Hindus that they feel compelled to join in any time a murderous mob forms to kill innocent people! If Jains would only try and seperate themselves a little and stamp their true teachings and philosophy into its people they wouldn't have a growing reputation of hypocrites. On a recent university arranged trip to a Jain Temple I went to some Hindu students displayed the typical mentality of belittling Jainism as just a Hindu "sect" and copying their teachings. Sad thing is the Jain guide struggled to challenge and correct their views so about 150 students came away with the impression Jains are just a Hindu sect and that is exactly what they are fast becoming!

In response to Tandoori Nowhere did I state Guru Tegh Bahadur died for Hindusim… I agree he died for Free Speech, Freedom of Religion, equal rights, and defending the innocent and that includes muslims freedom of religion, equal rights etc! And yes… Thankfully I have taken the time to read the Koran (not a good read in my opinion) and have sought understanding from Muslims who actually speak Arabic and study the Koran, do you read in Arabic or you relying on translations someone made for you?… copying and pasting translations from the internet unfortunately doesn’t give one the understanding of the Koran and Hadiths in my opinion. There are many Sufi and moderate muslims who could take you translations and put them in a different context/interpretation. That is the difference between extremists and moderates! You obviously believe that all Muslims follow your extremist translation. I know they don’t!!!! Once again although I respect your understanding and knowledge of the term “Kuttha Meat” (never heard of this one before, where the Gurus also anti-Jewish then?!?). However, I would be interested in listening/reading your logic when this argument is put forth to Taksali/AKJ etc Singhs… and others who interpret Kutha as in meat full stop and nothing to do with Islam!? Which is what I personally believe… You might argue that there is no evidence that Guru Hargobind Singh Ji did not build a mosque but I personally take the word of Baba Kirtan Singh (Tarna Dal) who has stated that the Mosque was built by Guru Sahib. But hey… once again I respect your view if you think Baba Ji is just speculating I personally don’t think Baba ji would speculate that his Jatha have been looking after the mosque. I would also like to point out that azans where only banned by Sikhs in some areas to prevent extremist Muslim preachers from gaining a platform to launch attacks on Sikh Empire and cause disharmony in Maharaja Ranjit Singhs reign. Its Muslim authors who propagate Sikhs to have been intolerant rulers who banned the Azan all across the Empire. I’m surprised you’re paraphrasing the rhetoric of Anti-Sikh authors. Talking of this period… I am proud that Sikhs did not stop Muslims from practicing Islam imagine the EDL in Maharaja Ranjit Singhs reign and its not as if they didn’t have to deal with Islamic extremism then… its just that they knew not to bash the whole of Islam. I would also like to point out that the case in Leicester also had Gujarati Hindu groomers involved and it wasn’t only guys from a muslim background! I would also like to point out that all the major Imams in Leicester condemned the groomers involved and Child grooming full stop, surely if you have the read the Koran and are knowledgeable about the true nature of Islam you would know such activities are not permitted in Islam! And yet the voice of the Imams is often ignored. And let me remind people if it has been forgotten that talking of Leicester… It was in Leicester itself in Big Johns restaurant that EDL members smashed the place up whilst the place was full of women and children who in terror had to hide in the kitchens whist drunken thugs ran amok! So yes they do smash up Muslim shops and businesses… anytime they enter a Muslim dominated area that’s what they do… I can’t believe even this point is up for debate when those who have bothered to go to an area once EDL have left will see the drunken mess they have left! Like I said previously the EDL did not come out of nowhere…. But having pure hate of Islam and all muslims in my opinion is wrong. And I think this is the difference… I do wonder whether some people are so paranoid that muslims are calling them “kaffirs” and doing “black magic” and trying to “convert” them that they are unable to engage in meaningful engagement and discussion with practicing muslims. Anyone actually spoken to an Imam!? Or is this stuff just picked up from Internet and youtube?! They aren’t out to get you!!! I think this is just one of those things where some Sikhs think its acceptable to team up with the EDL… I say good luck to them. I personally don’t find their views/actions compatible with Sikhi! But that just might me being a “liberal westernised Sikh" I suppose...

In my opinion its really important to not start following a group in its hate against Islam just because they flatter Sikhs and Sikhi as Tommy does... Some people need to ask themselves the question... Do you hate Islam or just Islamic extremists?! People say EDL and Tommy hate just Islamic extremism but his actions and words say something else he speaks against the Koran as if hes a scolar of it and calls it barbaric.... aren't we told in Gurbani not to speak bad of Islam and the Koran? You guys really wanna cheer people that mock Islam/koran and belief system of so many Sufi sants and Muslims who were blessed my our Gurus?!?!? I love Islam and the people who follow it peacefully, I dont know where you guys have been bought up that you have so much hate for a faith group but I have some of the nicest, humblest Muslim friends and colleagues.... didn't Guru Hargobind Singh Ji build a mosque for Muslims!?... how would our Gurus feel if EDL turned up outside Mosques built by our Gurus and shouted "who the f**k is allah?" and "Muhammed is a peado"? What would people like Pir Buddha Shah say? I understand that the EDL have reacted to Islamic extremism but I just don't get the mentality on the forum from fellow Sikhs whereby supporting and justifying the EDL has become accepetable... should some of you on this forum find it acceptable to shout slogans of intolerance and hate against Islam and smash up Muslim shops etc then I just dont understand how thats compatible with Sikhi!? Can someone provide me a historical context where our forefathers have launched a premtive strike on a perceived threat or agaisnt Muslims practising Islam?! In my opinion, any group that attacks places of worship and religious beliefs is wrong! Guru Tegh Bahadur taught us to defend another's faith even if you don't believe it! I hope we can all put this into practice...

We are on a slippery slope aligning ourselves with the EDL... came across a pic of one of the members of EDL Sikhs on facebook making a Nazi salute! I never thought Id see the day.... :stupidme:

Seitan also know as Gluten Chicken/Pork/beef etc (but vege) I find is good and high in protein... its a wheat product you can find from chinese stores if you have one near you. Bananas, Nuts, Soft Cheese (low in fat but high in protein), Asparagus, ... and Oats with low fat milk!