proactive

You should stop making up stories. No Puratan Singh gave same level of equal respect to Sarbloh Granth as the others. Where is your proof? That's the reason for Nihang fairy stories of gupt Granths to make up for the lack of evidence. Just don't get upset because some members aren't as naive as you are in believing in gupt Granths :TH:

You will always get Hindu armchair warriors. The best advice would be for anyone posting 1984 videos on youtube would be to disable the comments section.

Quite true, but as you will notice Baba Banda Singh Bahadur did not have the 'full' Dasam Granth as it was still to be complied a few decades after his Shaheedi. The reason for my pointing out these facts is to highlight the Sanatan types attempt to divide Sikhi into a type of mini-Hinduism rather than one united Panth as created the Gurus. Mirroring the caste system of the Hindus into the so-called samparda system. Just as the Hindus have the Kshastriyas the Sikhs are now given the Nihangs as their warrior caste. Just as Brahmins in Hinduism we are presented the Nirmalas. Just as the ascetics amongst the Hindus we are given the Udasis. I suppose the Sikhs who do not fit into the these categories the Sikh mainstream as well as Jathebandia like AKJ and DDT are derided as the outcastes! The other side of Sanatanism is the notion of 'gupt' Granths as well as 'gupt' knowledge. Along with this is the division into Shaant and Bir Ras Granths. So we get fairy stories about Granths being kept 'gupt' when the facts clearly state that the most Bir Ras Sarbloh Granth was not with the Khalsa in Punjab until after 1800. Mahakaal Singh can regurgitate the same old stuff that is on Sanatan sites but even the Budha Dal states that Sarbloh Granth came to Punjab after 1800. It is easy to try and introduce a text into Sikhism simply by answering the lack of any history of that text by stating that it was kept 'gupt'. Shaant and Bir Ras notions also fall flat when you look into the fact that Guru Hargobind Singh's Army fought many battles but it did not possess a Bir Ras Granth.

Mahakaal Singh, Nice theory but doesn't really fit in with the facts. Apparently Sarbloh Granth is the most 'bir ras' Granth but as we all know the Khalsa in Punjab did not have this Granth until about 1800. So this means that the Khalsa of Banda Singh Bahadur, Jassa Singh Ahluwalia, Nawab Kapur Singh, Baba Deep Singh and a host of other great Khalsa Jathedars never saw this 'bir ras' Granth. Banda Singh Bahadur especially did not have any contact with Dasam Granth as it had not been 'compiled' by then. Did the Khalsa of that time had less 'bir ras' than the Nihangs of today? If you look back to the 1980's the Sikh Kharkoos had more 'bir ras' than any of Santa Singh's nihangs.

Just one more proof that Muslims are the most AGHIRTGHAN (ungrateful) people on this planet. Only a Muslim would think of using the hospitality of the Gurdwara to subvert and spead his bukwas. I remember reading somewhere that the aid workers who went to help those Muslim earthquake victims in Kashmir had to make sure they weren't seen eating during Eid otherwise they would have probably been killed by these fanatics! Imagine you're there to help these people and you have to live according to their religious rules while you are there!

Someone tries to highlight Niddar's bad actions and you can't handle it hence the lame attempt at humour. Yeah of course you're not a Niddar fan!

You'll get one of two response from the Niddar fan club. Either abuse and be called a fanatic or a lame attempt at turning the issue into a joke!

Rupinder I'm not from AKJ but I appreciate the work that Pwalla and others are doing. Sometimes you have to think beyond Jathebandia but then Niddar and his chelay wouldn't know that. Interesting how he ropes them in and when human nature takes it's course and they start to have major problems he leaves them in the lurch. Thank God for people like Pwalla. Pwalla Bro you must be doing something right if you get abused by those who call any Panth Dardi as a sharia panthi and kattar! This incident reminds me of how hard it is for those who try and leave a cult to adjust back to normal life.

Nice try. It means no such thing, for many years it was just referred to as Dasam Granth and previous to that Bachittar Natak Granth. Trying to add Guru to Dasam Granth by implying the Guru refers to the Tenth Guru is just a piece of mischevious trickery. So going by your logic the Nihang reference to Aad Guru Durbar means the Granth of the Original Guru? So the Guru in the title does not refer to the Guru Granth's claim to Guruship. By your clever piece of trickery you've just denied the Guruship of the Guru Granth Sahib! Taking this a bit further how about Sarbloh Guru Durbar? Does this really mean the Granth of the Guru who is Sarbloh?

Khalsa Camp - if you want to do some hardcore Simran and are already living the Khalsa lifestyle Sikhi - If you're new to Sikhi and are no experience of the Khalsa lifestyle. Very good for beginners SikhStudent - If you want to loaf around and get some videos taken of you singing idiotic songs. If you're an adept at giving people the finger all the better. Basically do whatever you want and still be able to say you went to a 'sikh' camp!

I think you're living in cloud cuckoo land if you think the Indian Govt would allow an untainted politician to rule Punjab. The central govt can now use the corruption cases against Badal to make him their poddle in Punjab. Badal isn't averse to selling out Punjab's interests for his own selfish ends.

I suppose whenever in the Gurdwara they do Ardas you walk out because in the Ardas we ask for Khalsa Raj. Think before you write, there's nothing wrong with asking for independence for your nation. Only a slave mentality would call that racist.

Depending on your tone haihh = what?, really!, you don't say! That's unbelievable A characteristic of spoken Punjabi is how we use a word and to degrade it we change the vowel to a longer vowel An example Main ni jaan da ko Preeti Prooti nu? I don't know anyone called Preeti ( chances are you do but you want to refer to her in a bad way) Using the a word from two different sources ( languages) in the same sentence Jal Pani da parbandh karo

We don't need to waste time with Hindus. I remember that during the trafalgar square al mahjouron protests the Hindu orgs were going to come down to confront the Muslims but a day before their organisations put out a press release advising Hindus not to attend for their own safety! I doubt they would have even got ten people to the protest. In the end only us Sikhs and the National Front were there.

The best way to counter this threat is by getting as many Sikhs as possible to attend the event. This event is similar to the 2004 Trafalgar Square Al Muharjoun event. After the threat of Sikhs turning up to counter their propaganda against Sikhi they called off the event and held it in some toilet in east london or something. We need to be proactive against such cases as these. The Muslims are trying to see what we will tolerate and what they can get away with. This is their nature, if given a suitable response and the event doesn't go their way they back off for a while, if they are not countered they get worst and worst. The need is for Sikh organisations such as Sikh Awareness Society and others to get Sikhs to go to the event. There are many Sikhs could easily answer their propaganda. The worst thing for the Muslims organising this event is that awkward questions as well as statements are made about Islam. That the awareness they are creating about Islam blows up in their faces. This is the only reason they will think twice about organising such events in future. Contacting the University is a good idea but make sure that you term your outrage in PC terms. There is nothing wrong for a fool like Dhariwal to become a Muslim, the outrage is that the Muslims as well as him will use the event to say disrespectful things about Sikhism and as Sikhs are protected under the race relations act the university could be held liable for any subsequent legal action. I for one am looking forward to going to the event and asking awkward questions about what exactly dhariwal knew about Sikhism before he decided to convert. Chances are he knew nothing but it would be good to put him on the spot as well as ask what he knows about his new religion especially the unsavoury parts which again chances are he doesn't know. I hope the SAS as well as other orgs like R4G get involved and lets show these terrorist supporters what a group of united Sikhs can do.

At last the voice of reason Some people are so anti-american and so blinded by the liberal media like BBC and CNN that they think no even the nazi loving jew hating Iran is worst than America! I agree wholeheartedly with HPS62. The greatest danger isn't America but Iran, the Israelis are the most patient people in the world, how long do you think any country would tolerate another country constantly calling for it's annhilation and setting up mickey mouse conferences belttling the holocaust and trying to cast doubt on the murder of 6 million jews by the nazis. Another country would have already wiped Iran off the map but like i said Israel is patient and by Muslims patience is always mistaken for cowardice. Parwinder Singh, the only mistake the Americans made is thinking that democracy can function in an Muslim majority state. They freed Iraq from a tyrant like Saddam but then Islamic belief isn't conducive to democracy and what the iraqis really want is another tyrant to keep them in order. Once the Americans leave you will see another Saddam come to the fore but even then the Americans will be blamed for having left and allowed a tyrant to take over.

its that sort of thinknig sweeping things udner the carpet because we cant be bothered to tackle the situation that is bringing the panth down we need to tackle this situation head on. Guru Sahib fought agaisnt tyranny yes ... but is this not tyranny? Some people like to live in their own make believe world that there is such a thing as a moderate Islam and that the fanatics don't understand their religion which is a religion of 'peace' look at any newspaper on any given day and you will see how peaceful their religion is. Apologies to those of a nervous disposition but the fanatics are the real Muslims who live according to the quran and the hadiths.

SardarDholi you're a victim of th Gandhi mythmaking machine, the large propaganda machine financed by the Indian government and lapped up by the western liberal media and so-called intelligentia. Gandhi was wrong on most things.. he said India would be partitioned over his dead body..he died but not on 15th August 1947 the day of partition but nearly a year later. He give sactimonious advice to the Jews to allow themselves to be killed without a struggle by the Nazis so as to become guinea pigs in his experiment of non-violence. He gave similar advice to the British in 1940 not to fight Hitler. Mentioning Gandhi in the same breath as Udham Singh and Bhagat Singh is to insult these great martyrs. Incidently Gandhi called Udham Singh's assassination of Sir Michael O'Dwyer as 'the act of a madman'! Gandhi was also against the actions of Bhagat Singh and it only after the Congress party saw the mood of support for Bhagat Singh that they changed their tack. Gandhi called Guru Gobind Singh a 'misguided patriot'. He was happy when the Akalis were able to conduct a non-violent movement for the liberation of the Gurdwaras from the Mahants from 1920-1925 while his non-violent campaign had been shown up to be a farce after his followers killed some policemen. The British govt was not scared of Gandi but that a significant number of Sikhs would turn to violence and thus this would affect the Sikh troops in the army. gandhi tried to sabotage the liberation of the Gurdwaras by asking the Akalis to postphone the Gurdwara campaign and join in his farcical non-violent campaign to 'free' India. The Akalis of that period saw through his tricks and continued with their campaign. That was when Gandhi started to write against the Akali and Sikhs even going to the extent of claiming that Akalis were scaring the Hindus because they were armed. All in all he was nothing special and only the propaganda campaign of India and the liberals in the west keep him up in his unearnt pedestal of a 'saint' I remember reading somewhere that the Christian missionaries initially publicised Gandhi because they hoped that they could later convert him to Christianity and thereby make India into a Christian country.

That's what I've heard as well. Many Airlines want to use Amritsar but the govt as usual is dragging its feet.

Lol he's a slurrrrrerrrerrrr

Don't get taken in by posts saying that Amritsar airport is a hassle and going through Delhi is a breeze. These types of posts and false rumours are being circulated by vested interests. As more and more flights and passengers land in Amritsar the more income Delhi loses. I went to Punjab in December last year and I had no problems and I wear a Dastar. The arrangements for luggage such as a Tractor to move the luggage from the plane to terminal is basic but it does the job! Depending on how far the plane lands from the terminal you either walk 50 yards from plane to terminal or 250 yards by transfer bus. The service at the Airport is good and I had not problems at immigration. The luggage came on time and from the time the plane landed to when we got out of the Airport was about 40 minutes. This is because unlike Delhi where the immigration queue is packed the queue in Amritsar was light because usually only one flight lands at a time. There were 3 immigration officers on duty, Delhi usually has six. As for the other scare stories. Porters do approach you to take their luggage but unless you have the mental age of 5 then you tell them that you can handle your own luggage and they'll leave you alone. The good thing about Amritsar is that the people who have come to drop you off can come and stay in the terminal for a fee of 35 rupees each. Unlike Delhi where they have to wait in a building across the road. The number of trolleys in Amritsar are sufficient unlike in Delhi where once when we arrived at departures some Bhayyas had got hold of all the trolleys and were charging 100 rupees to passengers to use a trolley! Even though passengers had already paid something like 800 rupees as airport tax. Toilet facilities are also good and they are clean like Delhi. There is no STD PCO facility there but as most passengers have mobiles then it doesn't present a problem. There is a good restaurant and a fast food joint at the Airport and prices are expensive but then you would only eat at the Airport in an emergency as there are so many good restaurants on the road to the Airport. The terminal building is new being opened only a few years ago. Being a smaller airport than Delhi I've found it actually takes less time to go through Amritsar than Delhi. I've been going to India through Delhi for the last 15 years and this was the first time I went via Amritsar Airport and to be honest I will never go through Delhi again. If you look at all the disadvantages of Delhi for passengers going to Punjab then you can understand why more and more passengers are going through Amritsar. The journey from our village in Ludhiana district to the Airport took a little over 2 hours. The journey from Delhi is about 7 hours. It is easier for relatives to get to the airport unlike Delhi. If you want to hire a good sized vehicle to take you and relatives to Amritsar airport it's about 1600 rupees round trip, to Delhi the same vehicle will cost you at least double. Although the talk of a new airport at Halwara would be ideal of us, the journey from village to airport would be 20 minutes but I would still rather have Amritsar developed to become a first class airport rather than have two international airports in Punjab.

The muppet is an Australian of Lebanese origin and when the Dispatches programme was aired he was in Lebanon. Now he's too afraid to go backk to Australia because he fears he may be arrested for spreading hate

You seem to be very confused Namsatang. On your forum some ppl promote alcohol drinking as part of Nihang tradition and then you praise Sant Jarnail Singh who basically said that if he had his way he would burn all Sardars who drank alcohol! Words like Kattar Panthi and Atwadi have been used by people of a similar mindset as yourself for Sant Jarnail Singh. You obviously know nothing about Sant Jarnail Singh because he would stand with any Singh who was passionate about his Sikhi. Yes, sometimes passion can be extreme and if you look at some of Sant Jarnail Singh's videos at many places he chides those youth who raise 'Boley So Nihal' slogans whenever he said something. He said to them that instead of slogans do something for the panth and then raise as many slogans as you want. Sometimes the youth show more passion and have dream more then the elders that they can change things for the better. Sant Jarnail Singh hardly ever stayed in the company of elders or dhilar panthis like yourself. As for blame, Sant Jarnail Singh blamed those he thought were responsible for the decline in the position of Sikhs whether they were Akali, Congress or RSS. More than any other leader he blames the congress for what they have done to the Sikhs, He wasn't a dhilar panthi who finds it easy to blame a few youth who can get worked up and blame them for what is wrong with the panth and totally ignore the RSS threat. Nowadays because so many people raise the danger of RSS it is possible for dhilar panthis like you to use the RSS as some kind of joke and anyone who raises the RSS threat as some kind of fool.

About time they started to upgrade their Airforce. As it is every other day another Airforce plane falls from the sky.

Singh2K I think you know that by cutting your hair you are doing something wrong and by coming on to a Sikhi forum to post about it you are subconsciously trying to get a angry reaction from other Sikhs so that you're decision to cut your hair which you claim is based on the politics in Sikhi and the bad acts of people wearing turbans can be confirmed. By getting an angry reaction you can then feel a little bit more secure in your decision. You have got some angry reactions and in a sense that is natural, when Singhs are getting discriminated against everyday some of them will see you as a traitor for cutting your hair and taking the easy way out. Going by your first post you appear to live in New York and living as I do in the UK it is not always easy to understand the constant discrimination that Singhs have to go through in the USA. In UK we are lucky that is is not as much as in the USA but being a Sikh anywhere is a challenge. Faced with discrimination we have two choices, either we take the easy way out .. that is to cut our hair and try as best we can to merge and become just another brown face in America. The other option which is the harder choice is to remain a Sikh and as such bear the constant dirty looks and abuse. It's a personal choice which one chooses. Now to your main point. You seem to have cut your hair because of the actions of others. That's never a good basis for any decision. Bhullan Ander Sabh Ko Abhull Guru Kartar says Bhai Gurdas. Everyone is subject to making mistakes but only the Guru and Waheguru do not make mistakes. Apart from Guruji and Waheguru taking the example of others as a basis of any choice is a bad idea. Humans are subject to making mistakes, if the Bhaiji at your Gurdwara was angry at you going to another Gurdwara then that is his Bhull (mistake) and that just proves that he is human. We can never expect any person to be perfect just as we ourselves are not perfect. Would you want some non-Sikh to look at your action of cutting your hair and say that Sikhs are cowards and that they cannot stand for their beliefs. What if some white guy comes up to you and says..hey dude how come you got cut hair and call yourself a seekh? What would you say? What you gonna say? Hey man I'm a modern Seekh! I hope that one day you will get the courage to keep your hair.