proactive

I respect your view but Longowal really was a Gaddar of the highest order. He might have done some good for the Panth prior to 1983 but after that he had become increasingly sidelined because even the Akali Dal members who was under his command had openly walked off from Longowal's meeting to Sant Bhaindranwale's to show that they now considered Sant Bhindranwale as their leader. Longowal announced a morcha to stop foodgrains leaving Punjab in first week of June 1984 so that Indira gandhi could use that as a excuse to attack Harmandir Sahib. He took an oath (along with Balwant Singh Ramoowalia) that if the Indian army attacked the Harmandir Sahib they would have to walk over their dead bodies. They both meekly surrendered. After being released in 1985 when the whole Panth was united against the government, he went about making militant statements and yet all the time he was negotiating with Rajiv Gandhi. He signed the Punjab accord with Rajiv Gandhi without taking any of the other Sikh leaders into confidence especially the militants. By doing this he achieved what Rajiv Gandhi wanted which was to divide the Sikhs again into moderates and militants just as they had been prior to operation Bluestar. The most odious image of 1985 was the one with Rajiv Gandhi giving a Ladoo to Longowal to celebrate the signing of the accord. Rajiv Gandhi the same dog who had only 6 months before stage managed the murder of tens of thousands of Sikh in Delhi and northern India. Now tell me what reasons you have to think that he wasn't a gaddar.

Niddar is the ultimate salesman! He knows what the kids want are fairy stories and he just takes elements of fantasy stories like Star Wars, Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings and even the Da Vinci Code. In Star Wars read Luke Skywalker as Niddar and Baba Mohinder Singh as Yoda. Maybe when Niddar went to India on holiday Baba Mohinder Singh thought.. the faarse is strong in him! It's easy to dissect his fairy stories. So we have to believe that Guru Nanak was the first to teach the martial art to Baba Buddha. If that had been the case then this would have been mentioned in the Janamsakhis which it clearly is not. There was no reason for the writers of the Janamsakhi to keep this 'fact' hidden especially as the SV only became a 'secret' martial art after 1849. Had SV been such a great martial art then surely it would have been inducted into the training regime of the Khalsa army of Maharaja Ranjit Singh. If not his army then why not the armies of the Sikh states like Patiala, Faridkot, Jind or Nabha? If the British did issue shoot on sight orders against Nihangs which is very unlikely as there is no mention of such an order in the British records then there was many places that a Nihang could hide and carry on teaching SV in secret in Punjab. To think that SV survived 150 years and was about to die out until Niddar went on holiday to India is something that only a fool would believe. It is interesting that the only evidence offered for the history of SV on their website are transcripts of interviews with so and so Baba. Not much other evidence is offered. It is interesting to speculate that after calling his secret martial art 'Chatka Gatka' ( didn't Baba Mohinder Singh tell his the name of the secret martial art) for sometime he eventually called it SV.

The double cross culture is a part of Islam where even Mohammed signed treaties with his enemies knowing that he would renege on the terms once he was strong enough. All the Pakistani leadership from Zia to Zardari have done is taken western money, none of which has been utilised to build up the infrastructure and hence make the country into an economic power. The money has gone into the Swiss bank accounts of the politicians and military leaders but has created an unstable country which could explode at anytime and which is widely acknowledged to be a failed state. Hardly an advert for great leadership.

Read the whole article and the comments and perhaps you might understand what the issue is really about. If Jay Leno called Sikhs Diaper Heads then that could easily be classed as hate speech and action taken against him. I have yet to see that video. The joke he told was on Romney and not on the Sikhs. It doesn't ridicule Sikhs, it just shows that Durbar Sahib was the most valuable place they could find to show how rich Romney is. If you live in the West then you have to understand the concept of freedom of speech. Calling someone a diaper head is not protected by freedom of speech but the joke on Romney is. It's interesting that three Indian govt ministers and their offices have gone into overdrive to 'defend' the Sikhs against Leno's joke and yet they haven't lifted a finger on issues like 1984 genocide and the Dastar ban in French schools. People need to be aware of how the Indian govt and that arch traitor Manmohan Singh is playing the Sikhs. The plan is to give Americans the impression that Sikhs are against freedom of speech something which a majority of Americans are prepared to even take up arms to defend. Given this impression when a real issue comes to the fore such as 1984 or Bhai Davinderpal Singh Bhullar these same Indian ministers will be dismissing Sikhs as terrorists in the American media.

I think it's up to the young generation to make their views known. If you are the bride or groom then there is nothing stopping you wanting your wedding to be conducted without the so-called sabhiachar programme. If enough people do this then eventually people will get used to simple weddings. If your relatives refuse to attend because there are no half naked girls dancing on stage then you have to think whether you want idiots like that at your wedding. Remember that it is they relatives that will make the decision whether to attend or not attend.

It's a sad story and in one of the other papers it stated that they were Hindus before they converted. Looks like they also embraced the gand of western culture when the converted because the girl had a child out of wedlock at the age of 14!

Does anyone see a sea change in Punjab at the moment. The amount of shock and anger at the way the sarpanch slapped the bibi which if it had happened a few years ago would not even have made headlines. Also the way the bibi and her supporters handled the attempt by the congress to make political capital out of the incident shows that some people in Punjab do not want to be taken for granted by the political parties. Now this brave girl showing what the whole Panth thinks of Badal. Let's hope that Punjab gets a Sikh spring next year!

The channel wanted to show how these guys live. It might have seemed that they were being pushy but if the channel didn't show clips of their living condition then some fools would have wanted proof that the problem exists. Rather than criticise Sikh Channel why not give them some kudos for having shown the problem to the sangat and at least affected the thinking of some of the Gurughars as well as members of the sangat who phoned in to offer help. The channel also had organisations such as United Sikhs ring in to publicise that they also help these guys to take up the UK Border Agency scheme who gives free tickets to those who want to return to Punjab. Give it a rest you fool. As for the guy who said that we should report them to the immigration authorities, that won't really help them. Majority of these guys are illegals who when they arrived in the UK made sure they destroyed any documentation (like passports) they had with them. If there is nothing on record with the UK border agency then they cannot deport them until they can get them a temporary passport from the Indian govt. UK BA cannot deport anyone until the receiving country accepts that that person is their citizen. If these guys came through the visa route then their information is held at the UK BA and they can be deported in a few weeks. If they came via lorries then there is no record of their at the agency so the agency has to apply to the Indian govt for verification of their details which involves a police visit to their village and their checking with their families and the panchayat that this person belongs to that village, This cane take months and as the agency doesn't want to incur costs for detaining them then they are left to fend for themselves until the deportation is sorted out.

As proof that murakhs exist in every community some BJP nutcase has suggested that Badal should get the Nobel peace prize!

Ramoowalia was one of the Akalis who in 1984 vowed that the army would have to step over their dead bodies if they attacked Darbar Sahib. One traitor to the panth joins another!

It's more to do with the hypocrisy which is inherent in Islam that is the problem. You complain about Halal being banned but your religion denies the right to worship for non-Muslims in Saudi Arabia. Do you know that if someone is carrying a Bible or any other non-Muslim scripture it can seized by the authorities and destroyed and the person prosecuted. If there was a rumour about someone burning the Quran, Muslims would riot but they say nothing about the discrimination that is taught by the Quran. There is plenty of propaganda online from Muslims that claim that the western troops are raping thousands of Muslim women in Iraq and Afghanistan, yet your religion teaches that should Muslims capture non-Muslim women during a war then these women can be raped! Muslims shout from the rooftops if a non-Muslim converts yet if a Muslim converts out of Islam then you religion teaches that he or she should be forced to reconvert and upon refusal be killed! How's that for hypocrisy! And spare us the excuse that the media is responsible for not giving publicity to Muslims who are against the deeds of Islamic terrorists. The media bends over backwards to accommodate Muslims. After 7/7 the first thing the media did was to place some Imam on the TV who did his usual propaganda piece about Islam being a religion of peace! The only recent event where Muslims have opposed their own extremists was in Luton a few years ago when some members of a Mosque chased away the Islam4Uk, Muslims against Crusaders idiots. But upon further investigation it was found that the mosque website had placed hadiths online which included the infamous one about judgement day not coming until the Muslims fight the Jews and even the stones say to the Muslims 'come there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him!' Hardly moderates these people!

This is a typical response from Muslims, they want all the benefits and rights in the west but either feign ignorance of the discrimination that non-Muslims face daily in Muslim countries or like you did just claim that they are not responsible for the actions of Muslims in Islamic countries. This is hypocrisy at it's very worst. Where is their belief in the global Ummah? Why do Muslims in the UK burn poppies and UK and USA flags because these countries are in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Wow, posting a youtube video of Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan singing Gurbani is the answer to all the problems that Sikhs have had with Muslims! Shows a very shallow mentality to be posting such a video as the answer to the problems of Pakistani Muslims and their grooming of non-Muslim girls. Just because a few Muslims who when put on the spot condemn such actions doesn't mean that all Muslims are against these actions. The typical Muslim mentality is that these girls are non-Muslims and hence they deserve everything they get.

Just because someone tries to explain these incidents based on the religion of the criminals rather than their culture then you class that as hate! You make a generalisation that Islam does not allow such things but that is you viewpoint and a counter view could easily be argued. A majority of Pakistanis belong to the same ethnic groups as Sikh and Hindu Punjabis. So how is it that such crimes barely if at all exist in Sikh and Hindu Punjabi communities? Punjabi culture of Muslims was the same as that of Sikhs and Hindus barely 60 years ago. How is it that culture could change in 60 years. Should we not look at the doctrines of a religion that teaches that non-Muslims are animals and the worst of creatures? If that is the religious viewpoint that is drilled into them then can we be surprised that they look on non-Muslims as less than human?

I think you are selling Sikhi short. The other theocratic countries fail to protect their religious minorities because discrimination against other religions in built into their religious doctrine. As most theocratic countries today are Islamic countries then the inherent bias against non-Muslims which is in the Quran shows itself in the way the state deals with it's religious minorities. The question then is, is there inherent bias against non-Sikhs in the Guru Granth Sahib? The concept of Khalistan was based on two things-; 1. The belief that the Khalsa was created to rule. That Raj Karaga Khalsa couplet was a manifesto of the Khalsa. It was not just relevant for the 18th century but for every century. Sorry to be so blunt but if you do not belief in the concept of Khalsa Raj and hence the cause of Khalistan then you really need to cut the line 'Raj Karega Khalsa' from the Ardas as otherwise you are just being a hypocrite on a daily basis. 2. The belief that Sikhs can only be safe in a state ruled by Sikhs. Look at our history. We have had peaceful periods and then violent periods. Each period of peace and success when the Sikhs have built up their resources is then followed by a violent period when then leads to the loss of these resources as well as valuable lives. If you are happy with this vicious circle then that is fine. But beware that the point you make about Sikhs being free to practice their faith in India is just a peaceful interlude which will be followed by a violent period just as sure a night follows day. You make a point that in a future Khalistan the citizens will want to leave for foreign countries. If that is seen as a failure of Khalistan then why are you not similarly taking the Indian state to task for the amount of Punjabis who would leave tomorrow if they were given the chance? The desire to leave is because the Indian state does not offer any avenues for Punjabis to succeed in life. The level of corruption, the price inflation of basic foodstuffs, the lack of employment opportunities and restrictions on freedom is which makes Punjabis want to leave Punjab. You state that Khalistan will become a narco-economy, but isn't Punjab on it's way to becoming one already. You have given the worst case scenario of what a future Khalistan could become and given the negatives of Khalistan, please be so good as to give the positives that Sikhs have of being a part of India.

We've just seen what the biggest obstacle to the creation of Khalistan is, when even those whose support Khalistan are willing to water down the ideal into an 'Punjabi' state instead of a Sikh state. So where does Khalsa Raj come into this 'Punjabi' state? Or are you also going to go the way that liberal Sikhs go and state that Khalsa just means the 'pure' and even Hindus and Muslims can be called Khalsa if they are good people! When people who support a cause are willing to move away from the ideal and consider other ideas then that cause is already dead. It's funny how some Sikhs are so willing to forget the lessons of history and think that Punjabi Muslims will act better than they have acted throughout their history and be sympathetic to a Sikh state. Have you forgotten what happened in 1947? How they attacked and massacred Sikhs without any provocation. Khalistan was envisaged as a state where the Sikhs would be free to practice their religion and their properties and lives would be secure, just as the same is true for Muslims in Pakistan and Hindus in India. I suggest that those who write about a fanciful 'Punjabi' state consider how committed they really are to the Sikh cause.

That's a bit like saying why can't Alan Sugar ( or Donald Trump) just put an ad in the newspaper for an apprentice! There would be no publicity in it and the ego of the last con man would not be fed. It is ironic that the 'secret art' which was kept hidden from not just all Punjabis but virtually all Sikhs for a century is not being touted around to any tom <banned word filter activated> and harry! Even non-Sikhs are being taught the art! You make a good point. Going by his own story, he was 17 when he went to Punjab which would have been 1983/84. He stayed there for 11 years until 1995. So he was present in Punjab while thousands of the Sikh youth were taking up arms and fighting the tyranny of the Delhi sarkar. Events about which he would have been taught by his Gurudev daily such as Bhai Taru Singh, Bhai Sukha Singh, Bhai Mehtab Singh, Bhai Bota Singh and Bhai Garja Singh were being repeated around him in real life in Punjab at that time.. Did Niddar not see irony. There he was studying an art which was the art that Sikhs had used in history to defend themselves and others and yet he did not seek to use it to defend his own people. Where was the Hadh Torh challenge then? Another thing that doesn't make sense it that Niddar's gurudev couldn't find someone in Punjab for decades to whom he could pass on his art and waited around a 17 year old brummie to pay a visit. More fantasy that fact.

Niddar was challenged in 2005 but he or his chelay version of events was that he needed details of the lineage of the challenger's 'gurudev'! The Hadh Torh challenge that Niddar issues was shown off to be publicity stunt which when someone called his bluff was quietly forgotten. What I would find interesting is whether Niddar or his chelay have actually had to use their so-called martial art in a real life fight situation? They keep calling Gatka an exhibition art and I have yet to hear of the last con man or his chelay having used their art in a real life situation. Parmjeet and Niddar could have used their SV skills at Hazur Sahib a few years ago but I suppose the Hazuri Singh couldn't provide documentary evidence of who their 'gurudevs' were and were saved a b.utt kicking!

His profile pic isn't a Khanda but a Hindu statue from the 10th century. Like the muppet on the programme who said that studying Shastarvidya for 8 years made him more proud to be an Indian, Gurbar Akaal is just showing how screwed up a person can become when he comes into contact with the last Sikh con artist!

The article doesn't look like it was well researched. Major Sanghera a Muslim? The Mosque handing out free food? Some of the sheds tend to be badly constructed but most that I have seen are well built with cavity walls and insulation and double glazed. What the article doesn't tell you is that Ealing council's housing stock is swamped by Somalis. They come to the UK with about 5-7 kids and the father lies that he is separated from his wife so that the council has to house him separately. Because none of them work, they get free housing, health care and benefit payments. As they are treated as being two households by the benefits system they get higher rates of benefits. But the poor faujis because they are illegals don't get anything from the system but contribute to the local economy when they spend money in the local shops. Ealing council makes money as these sheds now have to registered for council tax which for the lowest band is about £800 a year. The council are cashing in, they have no incentive to enforce when they are benefiting from these developments. It is only because central government has given a cash pot to the councils to take enforcement action. One prosecution in a year, what a joke.

I see the Niddar publicity machine in out in force again fooling gullible goray into thinking he is the last Sikh warrior! The journo seems to have swallowed the Niddar fairy story. http://www.sundaymer...66331-29643073/ What a joke! Compare Niddar the so-called 'last warrior' with the thousands of Kharkoos who gave their lives in the 80s and 90s while 'warrior' was in Punjab meeting his very own Mr Miyagi and acting out a desi version of the Karate Kid! Have a look at the two pictures and decide who the real Sikh warrior/s were or are.

So you spoke to each of the 22000 people to know that their views were positive?

The figures seated to the left appear to the Maharajas of the Sikh states such as Patiala, Nabha, Kapurthala and Jind. The figures behind them appear to their retainers. The two on the extreme left could be the Muslim Nawabs of Bahawalpur and Malerkotla. The Earl of Mayo was governor general of India from 1869 to 1872. So the figures in the centre are definately not Maharaja Ranjt Singh or Hari Singh Nalwa.

I see a lot of these 'I want to find a Shastarvidya class' posts on this forum. Whenever Niddar or his views are discussed someone always posts asking where the classes are held. Call me cynical but is this an attempt by Niddar and his cronies to keep up their so-called 'Sikh HIndu' martial art in the limelight. I suppose the novelty has worn off. If the opening poster can post here, I am sure he has the skills to google the name of the website that promotes this art and there is a list of classes and venues.

The quote appears more to be discussing the general degradation in the Sikhs rather than the decline in some secret art called Shastarvidya. Here Shastarvidya means knowledge of the use of weapons rather than the art which a factory worker from Birmingham claims to have discovered! The quote would be supportive of Niddar's hotch potch 'secret' art, if Gyani Gyan Singh actually referred to any of the techniques Niddar teaches or even if it referred to one of the many different names that Niddar has given his 'lost' art like Jhatka Gatka etc.