proactive

I think some of the ones who went to India mainly Delhi went back to Afghanistan. The problem is that there is virtually no aid for refugees in India and the UN agencies seem to only give aid to Muslim Afghan refugees plus most of the aid budget of the UN is gobbled up by the Palestinians who seem to have made being refugees into a career and a lifestyle choice.

Looks like the entry is from some Pakistani guide book and indicative of their mentality. These people refer to the rule of the Mughals when lakhs of Sikhs were killed as a golden age and the rule of the Khalsa as Sikha Shahi which in Pakistani eyes is equivalent to a tyranny.

So if something is described as PEER automatically we need to bow down to it? Do Sikhs bow to Peers?

Personally I wouldn't bow to anything apart from Guru Granth Sahib. To the person who wrote that we already bow to Shastars because they are placed in front of Guru Granth Sahib, does that mean we are also bowing to the person who is doing the parkash of Guru Granth Sahib or even the person doing the chaur sewa? How about the flowers that get placed there as well are we bowing to them as well? One of the things that some Sikhs fail to understand is that the Gurus themselves were unconcerned about getting their daily actions recorded, the places they visited being consecrated or even their pictures being painted. Look at Bhai Gurdas's vaar 1, he gives only the barest of detals about the lives of the three Gurus who he was a contemporary to as well as Guru Nanak. If places associated with the Gurus were important then wouldn't the Gurus have made sure that the names and places that they stayed at were recorded minutely? The only conclusion one can draw from this is that places and things like footprints, handprints, cholas and shastars an the like are unimportant, what is important is the BANI and it is to Gurbani that we bow and nothing else.

I think he's trying to be sarcastic by giving them names like Brahmgyani. Quite a few muppets on this forum recently.

Why did some of these Sikhs go back to a shythole like Afghanistan? Some even left western countries to go back.

Then you gotta give your insurance details as well as pay any fine for traffic infringements :umm: oh and do your schoolwork

That could become a catchphrase. I've just hit your car, we are Panjabi people and I can't give you my insurance details You're right officer I did run that red light, we are Panjabi people and I will not be paying that fine.

Prem, What if I told a Sikh who had a Muslim friend that according to Islam a Muslim should only be friends with a non-Muslims purely to try and convert him/her to Islam. Does my making that person aware of this make me a Hatemonger? Am I spreading hate against Muslims? Does the truth or otherwise of what I say make any difference to whether what I say is hateful or not?

I am amazed when people bandy words around without even a moment's reflection as to whether they are appropriate. Some text messages have been going around which report the conversion of an Amritdhari girl. Suddenly these become HATE messages. Some people attack some Muslim family who then seem to want to flee the country and Sikhs are called HATE MOBS! These same posters would when faced with a 9/11 or 7/7 or a beheading video would go out of their way to explain how the terrorists don't represent Muslims and seeing some of the posters here would probably blame Bush or the CIA for the terror attacks and absolve the Muslims of the attack yet when faced with an report about an attack on a house by people unknown they jump to the conclusion that they were Sikhs and words like fanatics and fundamentalists and even Nazis start doing the rounds!! Get a grip people.

Ak-47 Good response to some heavy duty paranoia from some members. Harjinder Singh makes good points but he's way off the mark here when he says that Sikhs only get worked up when a Muslim has an Anand Karaj. Anand karaj should be between a couple who believe in the teachings of the Gurus, no Hindu, Muslims, Christian or Buddhist should be married through Anand Karaj as they have not accepted the Gurus. Just because the Panth has been lax in the last few years does not mean that we should accept non-Sikhs marrying through Anand Karaj.

A contemporary photo of Saragarhi taken by the relief column which arrived a day after the battle. Saragarhi memorial

http://www.thesikhencyclopedia.com/biograp...gh-palit-2.html AJIT SINGH PALIT AJIT SINGH PALIT (d. 1725), adopted son of Mata Sundari, the mother of Sahibzada Ajit Singh . Little is known about the family he came of except that Mata Sundari took him over from a goldsmith of Delhi and adopted him because of his striking resemblance with her son, Ajit Singh, who had met a martyr`s death at CHAMKAUR. She treated him with great affection and got him married to a girl from Burhanpur. Emperor Bahadur Shah, considering Ajit Singh to be GURU Gobind Singh`s heir, ordered, on 30 October 1708, the bestowal of a 'khill`atupon him as a mark of condolence for the Guru`s death. When Bahadur Shah came to the Punjab in 1710 personally to handle the situation created by the exploits o fBanda Singh, he ordered Raja Chhatrasal Bundela to bring Ajit Singh to his court. Ajit Singh appeared in the imperial court on 26 September 1710 and was given a robe of honour, but on 27 December 1710 the emperor placed him under the surveillance of one Kartalab Khan. On 1 June 1711, he was transferred to the camp of Sarbarah Khan. On 30 December 1711, Bahadur Shah assigned to him the jaglr of Guru Chakk (AMRITSAR). His purpose in honouring Ajit Singh as Guru Gobind Singh`s successor was to use him as a counterweight against Banda Singh Bahadur, who was then leading a general uprising of the SIKHS. Suspecting his Hindu officers to be in sympathy with the Sikhs, Bahadur Shah had issued a proclamation, early in September 1710, to "all Hindus employed in imperial offices to shave off their beards." On 10 December 1710 was issued a special order to all faujdars around Shahjahanabad "to kill the worshippers of NANAK wherever found." Ajit Singh, however, revelled in royal patronage. Back in Delhi after Bahadur Shah`s death in 1712, he continued to live in style as a courtier and grew arrogant and haughty even towards Mata Sundari. Once as she reproached him for his pretensions and for his desire to wear Guru Gobind Singh`s weapons, he threatened to attack her. Mata Sundari disowned him, and he started living in a separate house. On receiving a complaint one day that Ajit Singh and his followers had mocked an assembly of Muslims at prayer, the emperor ordered him to present himself at court with hair shaven or face severe punishment. Ajit Singh cut off his hair and abjectly begged the emperor`s pardon. This deprived him of whatever respect he commanded among the Sikhs of Delhi. Mata Sundari left Delhi and went to live at Mathura with Ajit Singh`s wife, Tara Bai, and his son, Hathi Singh. Ajit Singh kept up the pretence of being a guru. Once, in his haughtiness, he caused a Muslim mendicant to be beaten to death by his followers. Under the orders of Emperor Muhammad Shah, he was sentenced to death by torture. Dragged behind an elephant in the streets of Delhi, he met with a painful end. This was on 18 January 1725. His dead body was cremated in Sabzi Mandi area, where a shrine was raised in his memory. His son, Hathi Singh, as he grew up, also belied the expectations of Mata Sundari, who came back to Delhi. Hathi Singh, a pretender to guruship like his father, went to live at Burhanpur after the sack of Mathura by Ahmad Shah Durrani in 1757. He died there, issueless, in 1783. 1. Padam, Piara Singh and Giani Garja Singh, eds., Guru kian Sakhian. PATIALA, 1986 2. Chhibbar, Kesar Singh, Bansavalinama Dasan Patshahian Ka. Chandigarh, 1972 3. Sainapati, Kavi, 5n Gur SobAa. Patiala, 1980

Sikh regiment dumped over 'racism' fears By Sean Rayment, Sunday Telegraph Last Updated: 12:35am BST 24/06/2007 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...24/nsikh124.xml History of Sikh gallantry Last Updated: 12:35am BST 24/06/2007 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...24/nsikh224.xml

That article is like 5 years old! Nice to know Dancing Warrior is keeping up with the news!

Im living in the real world where there is a Hindustan....now i know why ur name is sunnybondsingh since ur living in ur bond Hum Hai Hindustani roughly translated means I am a native of the land of thieves and slaves. Hindustan is an apt name for India.

Only in a corrupt country like India Why should the police have to seek permission from the state government, if they have the evidence to back a prosecution then why doesn't the magistate allow the law to take it's course.

I used to watch Channel Punjab sometimes but all it has is some Ganay and some next 'gudd maarning' breakfast programme and the guy and gal who present it are so thick.

Have you tried giving your laptop a good whack? The harder you hit the more likely it is that it will fix the problem.

Didn't there used to be some kind of charity thing on this forum last year? Some causes that ran for a few months. Maybe it should be set up perminantly so that there could be a ready fund if a case like this comes up. I don't have paypal but would gladly donate by sending a cheque or deposit money into an account.

It's funny that some people think that this forum should contain only threads which they agree with and start to go ape when they can't get their way. To those people please don't waste yours and others time by posting in these threads. You have the freedom of choice not to read/post on those threads, please use this freedom and just as you have the freedom to choose not to read/post on those threads please respect the freedom of others to put up threads which they think are important.

Dimpa led attack, Rajan fired AK-47: SAD Varinder Walia Tribune News Service Amritsar, January 30 A video, reportedly shot by a mediaperson, shows the Congress MLA from Beas, Mr Jasbir Singh Dimpa, guiding the attack on Akali workers and his younger brother, Mr Harpinder Singh Rajan, a transporter, loading and firing from the prohibited AK- 47 assault rifle in front of the election office of the Congress candidate at Beas yesterday. The video was played in presence of Mr Sukhbir Singh Badal, general secretary, Shiromani Akali Dal, Mr Navjot Singh Sidhu, BJP's Lok Sabha candidate, and Mr Manjinder Singh Kang, Akali candidate from Beas. In a signed statement, Mr Harpinder Singh Rajan, younger brother of Mr Dimpa, said the video clip was 'doctored '. The video clipping also shows the official gunmen the Congress leaders firing rounds. The assault rifle is shown being used by Mr Balkar Singh and Mr Chattar Singh, Chairman, and Vice-Chairman of the Block Samiti, respectively. Mr Sukhbir Singh Badal served a 15-hour ultimatum to the state government to arrest Mr Dimpa and his younger brothers-Mr Harmanbir Singh Gill, SP (Traffic), Chandigarh, and Mr Harpinder Singh Rajan. The latter was also involved in an armed attack in Rajasansi last year. Mr Badal said he would go to the office of the SSP, Majitha, at 9 am tomorrow if the arrests were not made by that time . He sought deployment of paramilitary forces in all over the state to ensure free and fair election. He, however, said Youth Akali workers would be deployed in all Assembly segments. He demanded Z Plus security for Mr Kang who, he said, faced a threat to his life from the 'Dimpa brothers'. Mr Badal said action must be taken against police officers instrumental in registration of a 'false FIR' against Mr Kang on charges of kidnapping the woman sarpanch of Baba Bakala. The SAD candidate, Mr Kang alleged that three workers of his party were still missing and he believed that they had been killed and their bodies taken away to ‘eliminate’ evidence.

Yeah get your older mama to pursue this with the bank. Most banks try and get out of paying back the money unless there is definite proof that someone else used an illegal way to get the pin number. As far as I know there is no way that someone could find the card and then hack into it to get the PIN number. It is more usual that someone has cloned his card..ie made a copy of the card using a card reader whilst the card is in their possession such as when paying for petrol or paying at a restaurant. Someone could then be looking out for him punching in his PIN number and with the cloned card they can use it to take out cash from ATM machines. If that's the case then your older mama needs to dispute the transaction as soon as possible. If someone took out £3000 then they would have had to take it out on a number of days so it's easy to see that someone was using the card illegally ie some crooks wait until 11.58pm to take that day's cash limit at an ATM and the at 12.01am the next days limit. Banks should notice this tread if it is happening so they should been alerted by these transactions. However getting money out of a bank is hard so your older mama needs to chase up his bank ASAP. Let me know if you want any further info

Well since practicising Muslims have to give money to the Mosque (zakat) then by buying from their shop you are directly funding their programmes. Your comparisons about Hindu shops and Tescos are nonsense. What we are looking at is making sure we don't inadvertently funding Muslim conversion attempts. A more apt comparison would be how many Hindus give money to the RSS and how much of money from Tescos or Halfords goes towards christian missionary work..pretty much nil. Though on a side note since most Muslims are fiddling the dole then probably not paying taxes might be a good idea but since that's not an option then the next best thing is to not buy from Muslim shops.

I think there are mistakes on both sides. This is what I have noticed. 1. Amritdhari/Keshdhari will keep on trying to cast aspersions on monay because they see the lack of Kesh as denial of Sikhism. 2. Monay will try and downgrade Amritdhari/Keshdharis by trying to make up that Kesh is unimportant. Some will even bring out 'facts' such as so and so was an Amritdhari/Keshdhari and did a bad thing therefore no need to keep Kesh! Many a time when a mona is asked by non-Sikhs why he/she is not keeping their hair then the answer usually is 'Sikhism is not about keeping hair, you can be a Sikh as long as you have God in your heart' Both sides need to calm down otherwise in the next few years we will be split like the Jews with Orthodox Sikhs and Secular Sikhs. There are conspiracies afoot to do just that and unfortunately both of the above are contributing to that. Because of the lack of Sikh Parchar especially in the west and now even in India many Sikhs have not kept their hair. If parchar had been consisitant then cutting hair would not have become a regular occurance and would have been seen as an exception and not as in some places as the norm. Just as the Gurus gave us a unique identity so have they given us the tools and resources to cope with times such as these. Sikhism is a gradual pocess, some may take Amrit in their teens and other may take Amrit in their late 50's. It just depends on that person. As for Kesh, I have no doubt that if someone start to take the Sikh path then at one stage in time they will come to the NATURAL conclusion that by cutting their hair they are doing something wrong and which is against what the Gurus taught us. This is not meant to be a criticism of any monas who may read this and still believe that 'Sikhi is in the heart'. That belief will remain until they start to take to the Sikh path. This is where Amritdharis/Keshdharis can go wrong, you cannot bring someone to what will be a natural conclusion by criticising them for having a lack of Sikhi. Parchar is done through love and not through criticism. When there was a mass upsurge in Sikhs keeping their hair after 1984, this was not done by Amritdharis/Keshdharis criticising monas but because monas came to the natural conclusion that how can someonework feel hurt at the descration of the Harmandir Sahib when that person does not even keep their hair which is the basic presquisite for a Sikh? This is what made people keep their Kesh. After the heavy duty post above here's something more light hearted. The original question by the Muslim was that Sikhism does not have a set system of law which tell Sikhs exactly what they can do in each situation. The 'when can I use a nuclear weapon' question was a case in point. Anyway a few weeks ago some Muslim religious leader in Egypt issued a fatwa or religious ruling to bypass the Koranic injunction that an unrelated man and woman cannot alone together. Because Islam as a 'modern religion' did not forsee a stage in time when unrelated men and women would need to work together in a workplace then this ruling was made necessary. So he ruled that as the suckling of the breasts of a woman makes a man technically the woman's son then according to Islam he does not remain someone who a wman is allowed to marry and therefore makes them related and then this would allow them to work together! So in order for a man and woman who are unrelated to work together and therefore allevate the danger than they according to Islam's theory of human nature end up in bed together, then by the man suckling the womans breast this will stop them committing this sin of sleeping together!!!