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  1. I recently revisited this translation I did over a decade ago. I don't think I shared it on this forum. I welcome any proficient Gurmukhi readers to constructively critique the translation: I found this text fascinating. It’s an extract from an old rehatnama which is commonly referred to as the Chaupa Singh rehatnama today. The form is which this document reaches us today is not without its own complexities (like many/most Sikh manuscripts of older provenance). The stark contradictions in various rehat instructions within strongly suggest interpolations so, in its current form, it appears to be the work of more than one hand. That being said there is still a very strong possibility that some of the surviving text does actually originate from the time of dasmesh pita himself and were written by a man in a position of great responsibility and trust within the latter Sikh Gurus innermost familial circles. The reputed author of the rehat (Chaupa Singh Chibber) was a carer and teacher of Guru Gobind Singh during his childhood. Whether the extract below accurately reflects events in Guru ji’s darbar is a matter requiring further research, however this doesn’t diminish its value – especially as the topic it covers (inter-caste marriages) is one that is very pertinent to the community today. The picture it broadly paints of Guru ji’s darbar is one where certain Sikhs appear to have distinct roles (preaching and scribal activity are highlighted) within. It appears to depict some interaction between the Sikh sangat and members of the personal retinue or of Guru ji. There are the muktay (liberated) Singhs who take on the role of teaching Sikh precepts to the wider sangat and then there are those referred to as ‘musdee’ Sikhs. The word ‘musdee’ in Punjabi Universities Punjabi-English Dictionary is translated as ‘clerk, scribe or writer.’ It’s well established that Guru ji was a patron of literature and poetry (as well as being a prolific writer himself), and we need to understand that writers or scribes would commonly be hired for activities such as copying and transcribing hukamnamas, preparing copies of prayers, as well as the poetry, composed at the Sikh court. Other functions may have included keeping ledgers and accounts of financial transactions. Such people are the ones most probably being referred to as the musdee Sikhs here? As ever, any comments towards improving the brief translation are welcome. The text is taken from Piara Singh Padam's book Rehitnamay and I have added speech and question marks to help make reading easier, generally adapting the form employed by Amritpal Singh 'Amrit' on his blog. Edited January 21, 2012 by dalsingh101
  2. With the jat Sikhs making the majority in Punjab and having the most power . IE in terms of politics and also religiously. IE all major people controling and running the Gurdwaras being from this demographic. Should other castes be give some kind of quota for top jobs so we can have more equality and diversity in the Punjabi society and social strata. Or are they to power hungry and unable to share? I think that is the only way of achieving a strong United Punjab instead of one where there is to much in fighting and resentments.
  3. WJKK WJKF Hello everyone, I have been in a relationship with this guy for 6 years. I am now 23 years old and thinking of marriage. I don’t believe in caste and neither does he. My family come from a Jatt background and his family are chamar. My family do strongly believe in caste, but I was not brought up around it. I didn’t even know about the caste system or different castes until 3 years into my relationship with my boyfriend. He doesn’t have Singh in his name, but I always thought this was because he isn’t apart of the Khalsa. When we first met, he told me he was a Sikh and that was enough for me. I am a Sikh too and have always wanted a Sikh life partner. 3 years into the relationship I learnt about his caste. Even then, I still believed he was a Sikh, so it meant no difference to me. I told my mum about our relationship this year and she asked about his caste. I told her he is a chamar and she told me how they have a different Gurdwara and believe in the Guru Ravidass. I spoke to my boyfriend about this and he told me his family go to a gurdwara that believes in Guru Ravidass and Guru Nanak Dev Ji. They read out of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji and they perform the anand karaj as a wedding ceremony. I have been looking more into what he believes and I’m very confused as to whether he is a Sikh or not. I was hoping someone may know more about this topic and can advise me whether we would be able to do anand karaj in the gurdwara?
  4. The problem is Puzzled, and maybe puzzled is more suited to you than you realise, but the problem is, you're pushing the same narrative that other lazy observers have pushed for the past few decades at the expense of truth. Who was responsible for the diminished Rangrehtta Dal? I give you a clue...it's the same chaps that californiasardar1 mentioned in regards to Phulkian "misl". One of these days Puzzled, you will pick up a history book and actually study who stood shoulder to shoulder with Guru Gobind Singh, who was given a kalgi at Chamkaur, which Dal went AWOL in the mid-eighteenth century despite commanding control posts at Peshawar and the kept the quarrelsome Pathans at bay? For the vast majority of the time, the misls that you mention spent more time fighting each other and actually, the Bhangi's took Lahore strategically (nothing wrong with that by the way) and crucially not due to superior military prowess. Who formed the majority of the Nishaanvali misl or Dallewalia misl not to mention formed a significant proportion of the Sukerchakia misl? All I can say is, isn't it fascinating that those communities who have a 5 century history of sacrifice for Sikhi are now told to live in "chamaarlis", prevented from taking Amrit from the same thaal as jats but hey, lets preach to jaats from Haryana in the hope that Sajjan Kumar's clan, a chap who was responsible for a genocide in Delhi, embrace Sikhi. Wonderful. Absolutely fabulous.
  5. Guest

    Jattism

    I grew up in Canada and I have never really integrated into Punjabi culture until of late. Recently, I have been listening to more and more Punjabi music( Sidhu, Karan Aujla) and from there I have realized people still give importance to castes. My father's last name is Chawla and my mom's is Sodhi, but sometimes i still don't feel like a real Punjabi. When I look at my extended family, no-one has cut their hair but I have seen people say " Chawla is a hindu surname". I don't get why being Jatt is such a big deal.. I think both of my parents are from Khatri roots and I think that is higher than being Jatt, yet everyone around me acts like being Jatt is a superpower. I even saw a post on twitter saying " today is a good day to be a Jatt" or girls saying they are looking for a Jatt man only. I don't know why but this makes me so confused as to think if people actually make assumptions based on my surname. Is being a Khatri looked down upon in punjabi community or does it make me less of a punjabi?
  6. I grew up in Canada and I have never really integrated into Punjabi culture until of late. Recently, I have been listening to more and more Punjabi music( Sidhu, Karan Aujla) and from there I have realized people still give importance to castes. My father's last name is Chawla and my mom's maiden name is Sodhi, but sometimes i still don't feel like a real Punjabi. When I look at my extended family, no-one has cut their hair but I have seen people say(online) " Chawla is a hindu surname". I don't get why being Jatt is such a big deal.. I think both of my parents are from Khatri roots and I think that is higher than being Jatt, yet everyone around me acts like being Jatt is a superpower. I even saw a post on twitter saying " today is a good day to be a Jatt" or girls saying they are looking for a Jatt man only. I don't know why but this makes me so confused as to think if people actually make assumptions based on my surname. Is being a Khatri looked down upon in punjabi community and does it make u less of a Punjabi?
  7. Guest

    the caste system

    Could someone please explain to me what is nayi caste??
  8. Guest

    Unresolved anger with God?

    Hello all, I wanted to get some advice or insight on this issue. For my entire life (I am now 23) I’ve been following Sant Baba Jawala Singh Ji Maharaj Harkhowal Waale. If you guys don’t know who He is feel free to google, the Dera has a website with information. Anyways, for me Maharaj Ji has been my form of Rabb. He has been who I believe God to be my entire life. I just believed He was a form of God. I’ve prayed to Him and the Dera and that was how I followed Sikhi. My parents are very devout; my Mom states that for her Maharaj Ji is God, not a form of God. Recently I found out, however, that at the Dera Maharaj Ji has said that people of caste lower than Jatt are not allowed to do langar seva and are not allowed to eat during the regular langar; they have a separate space/time that they would be served. They are allowed to do seva elsewhere in the Dera just not in the langar hall. He has also said that anyone in his family is not allowed to marry outside of the Jatt caste. I was shocked and enraged when I heard this. How can someone who is a Sant/Sadhu believe in such things when Guru Nanak Dev Ji abolished and forbade against the caste system? I am completely against these things so I was absolutely heartbroken, confused and angry when my Mom told me all of this. I also feel guilty for being so mad, because Maharaj Ji has shown me so much of His blessings and given me so much in this life; what right do I have to get angry? Surely He must have had some reason for this? I fought with my Mom and asked her how she could be okay with it, and she said “Even if it is wrong I don’t care because that is my God and I follow his word no matter what” so that was basically a dead end for me in terms of an answer. I just don’t know how to feel. I don’t want to stop believing in Maharaj Ji but how can I resolve this anger and confusion on this topic? Thank you in advance. Here is the About Us page from the Dera’s website, I highly suggest you all read this before commenting: http://www.dsgharkhowal.com/?page_id=2
  9. This Is one of the best books out there when it comes to describing the revolutionary achievements of Sikhi in relation to caste during the early days of the Khalsa. It's essential reading in my opinion. Hope some people learn from it: https://ia802508.us.archive.org/17/items/TheSikhRevolutionAPerspectiveView/TheSikhRevolutionAPerspectiveView.pdf (stub link now updated for download)
  10. Just was wondering, I was totally oblivious to any caste system until i was 16 and went to college, it was not brought up in my house.
  11. People who did a certain line of work, all spent their time together, and married one another, in communities, not really associating with anyone other cast, especially those below. Did this system work, like mechanics help each other, and did it keep the balance?
  12. Guest

    Ms

    Hello everyone. My (Sikh) parents did not approve of my choice of partner for marriage. I was honest from day one and told them I had met a Sikh guy and we get on etc. However, my mum in particular was strongly against my choice of partner due to caste. I took the big step and chose to marry my partner because I don’t believe in caste. My parents did not attend the wedding. I am happily married and have been blessed with a child. However it saddens me that my parents and my extended family have disowned me and have never visited me. What infuriates me is my mums behaviour. Around two years ago she went through the Amrit Sanchar ceremony. My understanding is that my mum is now a baptised Sikh and should not hold any beliefs towards caste. To this day my mum has not made any effort to build relations with my husband. When I speak to my mum, she never asks or acknowledges my husband. Im so confused and angry.
  13. Guest

    Ravidassia Sant

    Has anybody ever met a Ravidassia Sant? They usually wear all orange/peachy bana and I believe each of the Sants have their own Deras. I went to a friend's Akhand Paath and one of the Sants from this sect was there. His family members were devout followers of this particular Sant. I know this sect tried to break away from Sikhi at one point to create their own religion due to caste conflicts I believe? But this Sant was preaching for all to believe in Guru Granth Sahib Ji and nothing else. However, at the same time, after the Akhand Paath was over, I noticed a lot of families were gathering around him and matha taking/massaging his feet. The families would also have personal questions to ask him and I caught a glimpse of the Baba ji pulling out and studying what looked like an astrology chart and giving the families answers. This is the first time I've ever seen stuff like this before and I felt like it was not Gurmat. But then again I am not the most Gurmukh person in the world either so my opinion may be flawed. My friend seemed to be normal about all this stuff so I didn't say anything out of respect. However, do you guys know if the Ravidassia Sants are legit and if their practices are in line with Sikhi? I am not sure if other Sants do this kind of stuff as well. Any info would be much appreciated! Thank you!
  14. Why is marriage between two different 'castes' within Punjabi Sikhs such a big deal? As Sikhs we aren't 'supposed' to put such a big weight on our ancestory/lineage/ (whatever you want to call it) during our normal day to day lives let alone marriage. But from the sangat of Punjabis around me, it isn't uncommon to hear conversations about how low castes are like this and that and high castes are like that and this. I've even heard people say they'd rather have their child marry out of race (culturally and religiously) than marry someone from a lower caste than them. (*Enter the 'Dafuq' meme here lol). So why is there such a big stigma against intercaste related marriages?
  15. NOTE: This post is a work in progress Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh! Often times I hear Non-Sikhs bring up common arguments against Sikhi, and as someone who likes to create a lot online resource hubs for Sikhs, I am taking it upon myself to create a list of Q/A's. I recently got a series of arguments (posing as questions) from an anonymous user on the Sikh Reddit who was allegedly Ex-Sikh. He frequently made references to Islam, and also claimed that he had done a lot of research on his "questions", yet the questions themselves seem as if they are taken from wikipedia or some anti-sikh site. Here are some of the arguments I would like to debunk: Q: If Sikhi is against the Caste System, then why are their Caste based Gurdwara's? A: Anyone can just create a "Gurdwara" and install their own beliefs into it, that doesn't make it valid. The key part here is that this cannot be supported by the actual theology of Sikhi, and all the main Gurdwara's still allow people of lower-caste to enter. All of these so called "caste Gurdwara's" are also not backed by the Akal Takth, and are not recognized by the Khalsa Panth. Q: Why were the Gurus themselves all from the Khatri caste and married within their own caste despite preaching against such barriers? A: The very premise of this question is incorrect, Guru isnt from the Khatri caste becuase the concept of caste itself is invalid. There is no evidence to suggest that caste was involved in the marrage decision, and neither was any proposal rejected due to caste. Furthermore, the Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji itself contains writings from people of different "castes" and backgrounds. When the Guru created the Khalsa Panth, the Panj Pyare were from different occupations, locations, and families, the entire concept of the Khalsa itself destroys the caste system. If the Guru was secretly supporting the caste sustem, he would have not created the Khalsa and passed on the Guruship. Gurbani itself is the Guru, and its anti-caste message is very clear, but it's some food for thought. Q: How about the succession of the Gurus? How do we go from the 4 first being chosen by merit and from different lineage, then suddenly it turns into a system of monarchy resulting in the succession of Guru Harkrishan Ji at such a young age who also passed away at a young age. A: "Nepotism" is defined as: The practice among those with power or influence of favoring relatives or friends, especially by giving them jobs. A lot of people like to accuse the Guru of being Nepotistic, and use it to bring down Sikhi by stating the successors of the Guru were not truly worthy of the title. The next Guru was never chosen on the basis of nepotism, and was always chosen based on Merit, the Guru tested each of his followers to see if they were worthy of the title of Guru. We are all just vessels filled with the same light, "family" is an illusion, we are all One. Although some of the Gurus did pass the Guruship on to their human sons, many did not, and even if they did, it was becuase their sons just happened to pass the test.If Sikhi allowed Nepotism, then why didnt Guru Nanak Dev Ji or many of the other Guru's pass it on to their children? Guru Nanak could have easily made Sri chand or Lakhmi Das the next Guru, the same applies with Guru Gobind Singh ji who did not have to let any of his sons sacrifice themselves for Sikhi, and could have asked them to not give Shaheedi. The fact that Guru Gobind Singh Ji established the Khalsa in 1699 before the death of all his human offsprings shows that he was going to stop the line of Human Guru's anyways. The ultimate argument against nepotism in Sikhi is the fact that the Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji & the Khalsa Panth were made the eternal Guru. Hypothetically, even if the Guruship was passed down based solely on Nepotism, I would have no problem with it becuase it is the Guru's decision and looking back at history and how each Guru lives his life, I can say the Guru made the perfect decision. As for Guru Harkrishan Ji, the reason the Guru chose the vessel of a young boy was to show that spirituality isnt affected by age, and even a child can attain liberation. The reason Guru Harkrishan Ji physically passed away at such a young age was to exemplify shaheedi, it makes no sense for the Guru to go around curing other people of small pox, yet die from it himself. Q: why has Sikhi remained confined for the most part to the Punjabi population? A: Sikhs dont go out and actively convert people like people of Abrahamic theologies do, the Sikh community is also generally very young compared to others. This issue is already starting to change, there are already hubs of non-punjabi Sikhs thriving in places like America, Indonisia, UK, Canada, etc, and we just need time. Q: Why did/are some Sikhs converting to other religions, if Sikhi is supreme, then why would people leave it? A: The message itself is supreme, but the people themselves are not. The argument of people leaving/joining a certain religion can be made for any group. The larger abrehamic religions are the ones that generally have a higher turnover rate compared to easter Dharams. Q: why hasn’t history seen Gurus with a similar message in the West or other corners of the world? A: There are other people with similar messages, there's even some new relgion in the west called "Eckankar" which is very similar to Sikhi on certain aspects. Gurbani also contains Bani from a lot of people who lived before the physical arrival of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, who's Bani is inline with Gurmat. Q: Why is Gurbani repetitive? A: I dont know if your reading the english translation or something, but in Gurmukhi the way certain words are used has a different meaning depending on the context. Furthermore, Gurbani is also multilayered, and speaks to the mind during its different states. As for repetitiveness in message, it's important becuase Humans learn from repetition, when you were a child, your parents had to constantly call you by your name so you remember it, etc. Gurbani is not like the abrehamic texts, it is not divided by chapters, but rather by Music. Gurbani does not have dedicated sections for certain topics, becuase as a Sikh our job is not to pick and choose what we want to learn, the Guru teaches us what we need, and the format Gurbani is written in ensures its multi layered and speaks to different people at different stages in their spiritual journey. The fact that there are other Bhagats whose Bani is inline with the Guru, reinforces the Oneness of the message of Sikhi. Q: Why did the Gurus have multiple wives? At least with Islam there is a specific guidelines prescribed, a lot of Sikhs like to argue based on emotion rather than historical evidence. A: The narrative that the Gurus were polygamists is highly contestable on the basis of historical analysis, not emotion. "The story of Guru Har Rai having married seven wives, who were all sisters, is found only in one MS of Suraj Prakash and is written on unpaged leaves which are clearly an interpolation. Unfortunately this copy became the basis of the editions nowadays in vogue. Other copies mention only one marriage. Mahima Prakash, which is much older than this book, also mentions only one wife. See on this point the annotation of Bhai Vir Singh on Suraj Prakash" -Dr. Ganda Singh, Baba Teja Singh; 'A Short History of the Sikhs,' vol. i, pg. 48. Here is a good post discussing this issue As for Islam, providing specific guidelines, I hope you realize that it also provides guidelines to beat ones wife, among many other things... Q: Why so much debate over a simple matter of canon scriptures (the Dasam Granth which oddly enough contains 2 of the prayers forming the Nitnem) A: There isnt "so much" debate over this. the Anti-Dasam granth crowd is a vocal minority, and the Dasam Granth is accepted by the Khalsa Panth as a whole, and even backed by the Akal Takth. Furthermore, the Debate that does happen isnt about the nitnem banis from Dasam Granth (Jaap Sahib, Tav Prasad Savaiye, Chaupai Sahib). Overall, Sikhs have still preserved their scriptures far better than many others, and the Quran itself was never even written down by Muhammad, Jesus never wrote the Bible, etc... Q: Why is there such a controversy over vegetarianism vs meat eating? Why didnt the Guru lay our a clear guideline? A: This wasn't really an issue before the start of the modern day meat industry, but we as a community have turned it into an issue. Sikhs historically ate meat, this is a fact, the reason there is a big vegetarian movement in the Sikh community is mainly due to the modern day meat industry and the idea that Sikhs dont really need meat anymore becuase they have so many more alternatives. As for the actual theology regarding this issue, its already clearly laid out by the Guru: Sikhs are to refrain from Halal Meat, if a Sikhs is to hunt or eat meat, then they must follow the Jhatka Maryada set up by the Guru. More information and sources can be found at jhatkamaryada.com Q: Why are Sikhs encouraged to be critical thinkers, yet told not to ask questions? A: People are getting two concepts confused: its ok to question the Guru similar to how a student questions a teacher, however its discouraged to question for the sake of trying to create an arguement or disruption. Final Thoughts A deep underlying issue that motivates a lot of these arguments is the idea that if Sikhi is true, then why would it not also temporally reign supreme, and why would "bad things" happen to Sikhs if they are morally correct? The answer to this is the simply: Hukam, and the fact that "good" and "bad" dont really exist. However, the issue here is that others will see this as a cop out. I am interested in developing a more indepth response to this strain of thought. Any recommendations? Feedback If you have any suggestions, please let me know any way you can, you can also email me at TheTurbanatore@gmail.com or contact me via Reddit at reddit.com/u/TheTurbanatore
  16. I know castes are stupid and they make no sense but why don’t the majority if not all chamars have Singh in their name. I come from a “jatt” family and even before I have taken Amrit my family kept Singh as their last name (no ones amritdhari apart from me, I’m only 17), even in school all my friends have singh either as their last or middle name, and my “chamar” friends don’t have it. Why don’t they have it? I thought they were Sikh as well as they have Maharaj saroop in ravidas gurdware? (I know all gurdware are caste free, but let’s be real they really aren’t)
  17. Guest

    jatt girl with pardra boy

    Hi there, I'm an 18 year old girl, i'm a sikh who is not an amritari and i'm with a pardra ( type of low caste dunno how to spell it sorry) sikh boy. I want to know your guys opinions on whether being with someone outside your caste is wrong as i think it is perfectly fine as we are both sikhs however my family would disagree very much as were are a Jatt family. He as already told his mum and dad and brother about us and we have only been speaking for 2 weeks and they are fine with it. My family want me to find a jatt boy but not currently. I think that it is okay that i'm with someone who is not of the same caste however i do notice some differences such as hes superstitious and i on the other hand think it's bulls**t and i have told him that. Also i feel that we call certain family members by different names e.g. i call my brothers wife bhabi ji and he would call his brothers wife perji. I feel that people say caste doesn't matter but their is a few differences that are clear but we can over look. I want to know whether this current situation is okay as i told my cousin and he feels that because he is not jatt i shouldn't be with him. I also see where he is coming from because there is clear differences between us but however we are both sikhs therefore surely it cannot be that bad as guru ji said we shouldn't believe in the caste system even though clear differences are still highlighted within certain areas and i feel that maybe being with a jatt boy would be easier.
  18. WJKK WJKF, I have been wanting to marry a girl who belongs to another caste. We've been together for a few years now and have been trying to move our relationship forward. My parents have been adament on not letting this happen whereas her parents are ready to move forward since the day my partner convinced them to overlook my caste. Despite me trying to explain to my parents that she is what I would want as my life partner and what our house would need as a daughter in law (ie. family-centric, caring, vegetarian, wants to progress in Sikhi with me, and etc.), caste is the only thing they see. My parents have even said said to let her go and find someone in my caste and they'll be happy (which is funny because there are not that many people of my "caste" around me anyways so regardless, it would have been be impossible for me to even find anyone unless they'd want me to marry my cousins or distant cousins lol). Ideally they want to arrange my marriage. I have explained so much that these caste differentials are not important anymore now and should've never been. And that Gurbani itself condemns this many times. I guess I can't bring Gurbani more into this as I would be a hypocrite since I am still struggling in some aspects of Sikhi and gradually working towards a Gurmat mindset. But anyways, they don't want to listen. They are worried more about what will relatives think and that our so called "enemies" will laugh at our family. And they keep saying they had so many "reeja" for my marriage (I think this would translate to expectations of getting me married in their idealistic way). I feel like the underlying issue is that they don't want to "lose" their son as they feel like they won't have as much "control", for lack of a better word, if my wife turns out to be a total nutshell and destroys the family or something lol. I tried to console them on this matter as my partner isn't that way and wants to live within my family in harmony. I have always been the obedient child out of choice so they won't have to deal with any extra nonsense in life from my end (until now I guess in their perspective). With Guru ji's Kirpa, I've graduated, have a well paying job, and carry my own weight. I continue to live at home and have my share of family responsibilities. I believe it's my duty. I have done nothing to show my parents that I can't make logical/well thought out decisions in life. So I'm not sure why they can't trust my decision of being with my partner. My partner wants to live the same lifestyle with my family as that is what she was looking for as well. I can't think of being with anybody else. The over-infatuation or honeymoon phase is long gone and we want to convert our relationship into a life of living responsibly with Sikh values and subtracting the negative Punjabi cultural values (flashing wealth, caste discrimination, gender discrimination, alcoholism, God-men Dera worship, chuggli nindya, you name it). How can I convince my parents? It has been taking me so long trying to convince them and has taken a toll on my mental health. I don't want to elope and run away from home as that would not be Gurmat. It would tear me apart and be unfair to her family as they have been understanding and are basically on standby until my family is on board. Has anybody else been in a similar situation? Any suggestions would be much appreciated!
  19. Guest

    Punjabi Cinema

    Why do a good majority of Punjabi movies promote caste when we as Sikhs ideologically are not supposed to be following the caste system? If the word "Jatt" isn't mentioned in a typical movie (which most likely it will) then at least the last names of all major characters are mentioned to indirectly denote their caste. I don't get why this agenda is pushed out by Punjabi Cinema and no one really speaks against it? Because it appeases the majority population and thus usage of this single word can make the film a cash cow? I don't mean to take jabs at anyone, as the only example I can use in context of Punjabi Cinema is Jatt promotion. But I guess the point of my question is; why is any type of caste promotion of any caste not looked down upon by mainstream Sikh Punjabis? Is there a solution to it?
  20. I remember a video went viral in 2010 or something in which an angry Dalit Buddhist/Sikh lady was seen giving angry speech in a funny punjabi accent, complaining about how Sikhism was hijacked by the same baahmanwaad that it aimed to eradicate. and how Sikhism was not really separate ideologically from Buddhism. She was perhaps a neo-buddhist and Ambedkar follower named Kamlesh Ahir. Kamlesh Ahir's speech was mostly about woes of so-called low castes being denied active participation in indian religions. And how sikh gurus tried to revive Buddhas ideals of casteless society equal for all, but that Sikhism was failed by Sikhs themselves. I agree with her only partly! In this video, the same lady (in funny frantic voice) is heard complaining about how Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar wanted to convert to sikhi along with his 5 million followers but was let down by Jatt-dominated Akalis who feared losing control of harmandar sahib. So as a result Ambedkar ji had to convert to Buddhism along with his followers and they also burnt manusmriti , a hindu text which is still celebrated by buddhists in india as "manusmriti dahan diwas". The lady also complained about how Sikhs don't want chamaars, Ravidasias , Valmiks and other downtrodden along with them , and as a consequent Sikhi is not really spread . (Khalsa college of mumbai of which I myself am an alumni is a really cool college founded by Babasaheb Ambedkar himself). So I will give her credit. Anyways, coming to point , Is Sikhi really totally dominated by Jatts , esp when it comes to filling top clergical and administrative posts in SGPC gurudwaras ?? If so , its a really shame for our panth. We need to introspect deeply. We feel delighted at sight of white/black sikhs , then why we should feel hesitation to accept downtrodden low-castes of india who will benefit from sikhi the most. You can hear her here (again I don't agree with her at times , and she sound really bullsshit sometimes, but she does make a point about casteism in sikhi) :
  21. VJKK VJKF I am really confused because Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj said that in Sikhi there is no caste system so why do people still mention: Jatt etc especially in films I mean you get films called: Jatt & Juliet and this makes me wonder why people still hold on to this mindframe. We are all equal in Sikhi so why the castes? I don't believe in this sort of unfair mindset. I did not mean to offend anyone that was not my intention. VJKK VJKF
  22. Guest

    Lost the one I love

    Not sure where to start but I really liked this girl or woman should I say. I think it was love at first sight. I had never had this experience before. This girl was the woman of my dreams. Highly educated professional. unbelievablbly beautiful and respectful. Not like those rude and obnoxuous clubbing type of girls who I generally tend to meet these days. She was beautiful both inside and out. The only issue is that she came from a so called higher caste (Jatt) and not only that she was Doctor. Hence I dont think I would ever have been good enough. Seeing as I had a normal day to day job. She came from a wealthy background also. I like her but did not even ask her out as I knew what the answer would be or I knew she would eventually turn me down knowing I was not in her league in terms of occupational and social standing. Also there is the fact that I am not from her caste. Her family would never have accepted me. Hence I did not pursue anything with her. I did not want to create any problems in her life with her family. So I just accepted I was not good enough and moved on with my life. Hoping in the mean time she would find someone who would make her happy. As that is all I wanted more then anything. Anyway I recently discovered she got married to another very wealthy Doctor. When I saw the pics it made very happy to see her find someone who looks to be good and decent person. But at the same time it kind of hurts as I would have liked to marry her. Although seeing her so happy. Im just glad she is happy as that is all I want.Aeeing pics of her parents so happy and all her family over the moon. But I am just thinking of what could have been and am struggling to get over her.
  23. Guest

    Help marriage issue

    Waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh Sangat please help me with this problem i am having. I am from the UK, and my family is sikh. Although i do not believe in caste because i follow sikhi, my family is chamar. I met a girl while studying at university and we became friends, however this accidentally blossomed into love without meaning for it to. She is also sikh, but her family is Jatt, and they are very casteist. Although she herself does not believe in caste because she also tries to follow sikhi, her family believe in it strongly. Now we all know here that there is no jaat paat in Sikhi, is there a way to convince her family? I have met them before just as her friend and they assumed i am Jatt because they think I look like one. My and my family do not fall into any stereotypes they may have about lower castes for example: we are all fair skinned, we follow pure sikhi, we are relatively well off etc. I am very well educated, i have a good job and i get told that i am a very good natured and caring person. Another issue i have is her parents have said that she can marry a Jatt or a Tarkhan but not a Chamar. Surely marrying out of caste to any different caste should be treated the same. Please help with how to resolve this, and give me any advice you can. Thank you
  24. Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh! Can anyone explain logically why caste still exists in our Panth? Especially among those who tell everyone caste doesn't exist to the outside, but when it comes for actually putting it into practice they forget everything about the right side. There are Hindus today who value their personal caste less than some Sikhs which is just depressing if you asked anyone. Also how can we logically combat this idea in some old-aged Pakhandis minds. Especially among Pakhandidharis, (those who took Amrit yet still keep Non-Sikh practices), which makes people question the need for Amrit. Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!
  25. Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh! (NOT INSULTING ANY INDIVIDUAL KHATRIS OF MODERN DAY!) Something Daas wanted to know was from the time of before Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji, why didn't the Punjabi Khatris defend Punjab from all the invaders that conquered Punjab, like the other Kshatriya Clans from outside Punjab, for example the Rajputs kept their idea of protecting their land as Kshatriya clans, so what prevented the Punjabi Khatris from doing the same all the years before Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji? On the one hand Bhai Gurdas mentions the clans of Bedis and Sodhis in extremely high respect, (for having the form of Vaheguru being born in them, not for merely being Khatri), but on the other side, "ਦਾਨ ਖੜਗ ਮੰਤੁ ਭਗਤਿ ਸਲਾਹੀ ॥੧੦॥ Daanu Kharhagu Mantu Bhagati Salaahee ॥10॥ दानु खड़गु मंतु भगति सलाही ॥१०॥ The real khatris is he who gives charitably, wears arms and remembers God with loving devotion." (Bhai Gurdas Vaaran 8 Pauri 10), so what exactly was there job if they didn't give their Shastars and doing Bhagti? Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!
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