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taran0 posted a topic in WHAT'S HAPPENING?please also view this this article on adishakti.orgwhich shows that without referencing the rest of Guru Gobind Singh Ji's bani how Guru's words are taken out of context and words have diferent meanings to the Khalsa and Guru Gobind Singh Ji this article was originally published here with gurmukhi text and links - (the gurmukhi came out jumbled on the forum any ideas?) Here are some quotes from Nidar's Website www.<banned site filter activated> a well known preacher of Snatan Sikhi On Nidars website he likes to equate Mahakaal, Kaal and Akaal with Hindu misrepresentations. Even the designation 'Akal' was after all another designation of 'Shiva'. (Nidar Singh, ShastarVidiya, http://www.shastarvi...g/history14.jsp ) This is very similar to the arguments used by RSS and Arya Samajist Hindu's on their website like adishakti.orgsaying that Guru Gobind Singh ji worshipped Kalika Devi, because they have a different interpretation to the words that Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave us. Further clarification is within the same scriptures they use and quote from. But if we ask Guru Gobind Singh Ji then what does he say.... In due time Brahma appeared in physical form; in due time Shiva incarnated; In due time Vishnu manifested himself; all this is the play of the Temporal Lord.383. The Temporal Lord, who created Shiva, the Yogi; who created Brahma, the Master of the Vedas; The Temporal Lord who fashioned the entire world; I salute the same Lord.384. The Temporal Lord, who created the whole world; who created gods, demons and yakshas; He is the only one form the beginning to the end; I consider Him only my Guru.385. (Kabeyo Bach Benti Chaupai, 2259, Sri Dasam Granth) how can they be Mahakaal or Akaal if they were subject to death(Kaal)? On this page of Nidars Website http://www.shastarvi...g/history18.jsp Nidar quotes from Bachitar Natak (100, Sri Dasam Granth) and claims that Guru Gobind Singh ji personified Mahakaal in the same manner as the Shivite worshippers did of Shiva Akali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh personified 'Mahakaal', in the same manner as the above mentioned Shivite warrior ascetics: "“In Mahakaal's hand gleams the great terrifying sword and when he walks his ankle bells jingle. He has four beautiful arms. [On his head] is a beautiful topknot. His club is of good reputation...." Nidar Singh (http://www.shastarvi...g/history18.jsp ) Yet if you go back to Bachittar Natak and read the next Stanza from the one which he quotes from says the following; The moon is bearning on his head, seeing which the god Shiva feels shy. (101, Sri Dasam Granth) So how can Nidar claim this preposterous notion that Guru is describing or personifying Shiva? If Guru Gobind Singh categorically states that Shiva felt ashamed by the Beauty of Akaal). And if you go a few stanzas back Guru Gobind Singh ji says it again. The rosary of heads glorified his neck, seeing which the god Shiva feels abashed. (98 Sri Dasam Granth) These are all from the section of the Bachittar natak called "SRI KAAL JI KI USTAT" (the Euology of the Great Death) which also says the following He hath effaced many and then made (created) others. He destroys the created ones and then creates after effacing. None could comprehend the working of Death (KAL). Many have experienced it and many will experience it.26. Somewhere He hath created millions of the servants like Krishna. Somewhere He hath effaced and then created (many) like Rama. Many Muhammads had been on the earth. They were born and then died in their own times. 27. All the Prophets and saints of the past were conquered by Death (KAL), but none could conquer it (him). All the incarnations of Vishnu like Rama and Krishan were destroyed by KAL, but they could not destroy him. 28. All the indras and Chandras (moons) who came into being were destroyed by KAL, but they could not destroy him. All those Prophets, saints and hermits, who came into being, were all ultimately crushed under the grinder tooth of KAL.29. All the glorious kings like Mandhata were all bound down and thrown in the noose of KAL. Those who have remembered the Name of the Lord, have been saved, without coming under His refuge, millions are considered as having been killed by KAL.30. (Bachittar Natak, Sri Dasam Granth) But Nidar fails to make this known to the reader who is duped into thinking Guru Gobind Singh ji was actually describing Shiva by picking a few verses out of context. An interesting thing to note for others who want to be careful of mis-interpretation of words by Hindutva and arya samaj activists who seek to twist the message of Guru Gobind Singh ji and Dasam Granth In Chaupai Sahib Guru Gobind Singh ji clearly states..... In due time Brahma appeared in physical form; in due time Shiva incarnated; In due time Vishnu manifested himself; all this is the play of the Temporal Lord.383. The Temporal Lord, who created Shiva, the Yogi; who created Brahma, the Master of the Vedas; The Temporal Lord who fashioned the entire world; I salute the same Lord.384. The Temporal Lord, who created the whole world; who created gods, demons and yakshas; He is the only one form the beginning to the end; I consider Him only my Guru.385. (Kabeyo Bach Benti Chaupai, 2259, Sri Dasam Granth) Guru Gobind Singh Ji only saw the one who's avtar was one and only is the Guru he accepts, The Mahakaal above all. All other deities where subject to reincarnation and rebirth, as is evident from the same Guru Gobind Singh ji's writings that Nidar quotes from. There inumerous other parts of Dasam Granth that can also provide clarification on who Guru Gobind Singh Ji is and is not talking about.... Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu and Consort of Sachi (Indra) would ultimately fall in the noose of death. (41, Sri Dasam Granth) how can the Devtey be desingated to Mahakaal or Akaal if they were subject to death(Kaal) But the Vedas, Shiva, Rudra and Brahma could not Know His mystery and the secret of His notions. (75, Sri Dasam Granth) Guru Gobind Singh Ji also clarifies his use of terms by saying The fool claims boastfully about the knowledge of His secrets, which even the Vedas do not know.391. The fool considers Him a stone, but the great fool does not know any secret; He calls Shiva "The Eternal Lord, "but he does not know the secret of the Formless Lord.392. (Kabeyo Bach Benti Chaupai, 2261, Sri Dasam Granth) Guru Gobind Singh ji clearly says they call Mahadev(who Hindus call shiva) the eternal lord yet they knothing of Nirankar. Other Hindutva fundamentalists also claim the following refers to Devi Mata. Kirpa Karee Hum par Jag mata, Granth Kara Pooran Sabh Rata The Mother of the world has been kind towards me and I have completed the book this auspicious night; (Kabeyo Bach Benti Chaupai, 2263, Sri Dasam Granth) But if we ask Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj, the clarification is in this shabad. qUM myrw ipqw qUMhY myrw mwqw ] thoo maeraa pithaa thoo(n)hai maeraa maathaa || You are my Father, and You are my Mother. qUM myrw bMDpu qUM myrw BRwqw ] thoo maeraa ba(n)dhhap thoo maeraa bhraathaa || You are my Relative, and You are my Brother. qUM myrw rwKw sBnI QweI qw Bau kyhw kwVw jIau ]1] thoo maeraa raakhaa sabhanee thhaaee thaa bho kaehaa kaarraa jeeo ||1|| You are my Protector everywhere; why should I feel any fear or anxiety? ||1|| qumrI ik®pw qy quDu pCwxw ] thumaree kirapaa thae thudhh pashhaanaa || By Your Grace, I recognize You. qUM myrI Et qUMhY myrw mwxw ] thoo maeree outt thoo(n)hai maeraa maanaa || You are my Shelter, and You are my Honor. quJ ibnu dUjw Avru n koeI sBu qyrw Kylu AKwVw jIau ]2] thujh bin dhoojaa avar n koee sabh thaeraa khael akhaarraa jeeo ||2|| Without You, there is no other; the entire Universe is the Arena of Your Play. ||2|| (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Maajh on Pannaa 103 ) Guru Gobind Singh ji adds in Jaap Sahib... NAMO PARAM GYATA, NAMO LOK MATA ॥52॥ Salutation to Thee O Supreme Knower Lord! Salutation to Thee O Universal Mother Lord! ||52|| (Jaap Sahib, Sri Dasam Granth) I would urge everyone to start reading Bachittar Natak for themselves so they can get a clear and honest view of Guru Gobind Singh Jis message, you will see that he bowed to no one but Akaal Purkh Vaheguru, and whoever reads this bani will also feel this profoundly and deeply - the timeless nature of vaheguru and the futile nature of all who are subject to his Natak (play). I leave you with this last passage from Bachittar Natak from the Paviter Mukhvak of Satguru Gobind Singh ji. RASAAVAL STANZA All the Ramas who incarnated, ultimately passed away. All the Krishnas, who had incarnated, have all passed away.70. All the gods who will come into being in future, they will all ultimately expire. Alll the Buddhas, who came into being, expired ultimately.71. All the god-kings, who came into being, ultimately passed away. All the demon-kings, who came into being, they were all destroyed by KAL.72. The incarnation Narsingh was also killed by KAL. The incarnation with grinder teeth (i.e. Boar) was killed by mighty KAL.73. Vaman, the Brahmin incarnation, was killed by KAL. The Fish incarnation of spatious mouth, was entrapped by KAL.74. All those who had come into being, they were all conquered by KAL. Those who will go under His Refuge, they will all be saved by him.75. (105, Bachittar Natak, Sri Dasam Granth) FURTHER REFERENCE > Giani Sant Singh Maskeen If you listen to katha of Panth Rattan Giani Sant Singh Maskeen, he explains in sikhi what Kaal, Akaal and Mahakaal terms mean in Sikhi. Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Clarifies the meaning of Mahakaal Kalika Aradhi mahakaalsantjarnail Audio File Guru Sahib and Kalika and Bhagauti Article on Sikhsearch