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Found 31 results

  1. Guest

    Ms

    Hello everyone. My (Sikh) parents did not approve of my choice of partner for marriage. I was honest from day one and told them I had met a Sikh guy and we get on etc. However, my mum in particular was strongly against my choice of partner due to caste. I took the big step and chose to marry my partner because I don’t believe in caste. My parents did not attend the wedding. I am happily married and have been blessed with a child. However it saddens me that my parents and my extended family have disowned me and have never visited me. What infuriates me is my mums behaviour. Around two years ago she went through the Amrit Sanchar ceremony. My understanding is that my mum is now a baptised Sikh and should not hold any beliefs towards caste. To this day my mum has not made any effort to build relations with my husband. When I speak to my mum, she never asks or acknowledges my husband. Im so confused and angry.
  2. Hi there, I'm an 18 year old girl, i'm a sikh who is not an amritari and i'm with a pardra ( type of low caste dunno how to spell it sorry) sikh boy. I want to know your guys opinions on whether being with someone outside your caste is wrong as i think it is perfectly fine as we are both sikhs however my family would disagree very much as were are a Jatt family. He as already told his mum and dad and brother about us and we have only been speaking for 2 weeks and they are fine with it. My family want me to find a jatt boy but not currently. I think that it is okay that i'm with someone who is not of the same caste however i do notice some differences such as hes superstitious and i on the other hand think it's bulls**t and i have told him that. Also i feel that we call certain family members by different names e.g. i call my brothers wife bhabi ji and he would call his brothers wife perji. I feel that people say caste doesn't matter but their is a few differences that are clear but we can over look. I want to know whether this current situation is okay as i told my cousin and he feels that because he is not jatt i shouldn't be with him. I also see where he is coming from because there is clear differences between us but however we are both sikhs therefore surely it cannot be that bad as guru ji said we shouldn't believe in the caste system even though clear differences are still highlighted within certain areas and i feel that maybe being with a jatt boy would be easier.
  3. Why is marriage between two different 'castes' within Punjabi Sikhs such a big deal? As Sikhs we aren't 'supposed' to put such a big weight on our ancestory/lineage/ (whatever you want to call it) during our normal day to day lives let alone marriage. But from the sangat of Punjabis around me, it isn't uncommon to hear conversations about how low castes are like this and that and high castes are like that and this. I've even heard people say they'd rather have their child marry out of race (culturally and religiously) than marry someone from a lower caste than them. (*Enter the 'Dafuq' meme here lol). So why is there such a big stigma against intercaste related marriages?
  4. Guest

    Ravidassia Sant

    Has anybody ever met a Ravidassia Sant? They usually wear all orange/peachy bana and I believe each of the Sants have their own Deras. I went to a friend's Akhand Paath and one of the Sants from this sect was there. His family members were devout followers of this particular Sant. I know this sect tried to break away from Sikhi at one point to create their own religion due to caste conflicts I believe? But this Sant was preaching for all to believe in Guru Granth Sahib Ji and nothing else. However, at the same time, after the Akhand Paath was over, I noticed a lot of families were gathering around him and matha taking/massaging his feet. The families would also have personal questions to ask him and I caught a glimpse of the Baba ji pulling out and studying what looked like an astrology chart and giving the families answers. This is the first time I've ever seen stuff like this before and I felt like it was not Gurmat. But then again I am not the most Gurmukh person in the world either so my opinion may be flawed. My friend seemed to be normal about all this stuff so I didn't say anything out of respect. However, do you guys know if the Ravidassia Sants are legit and if their practices are in line with Sikhi? I am not sure if other Sants do this kind of stuff as well. Any info would be much appreciated! Thank you!
  5. I know sikhs dont believe in the caste system, however can anyone tell me the following surnames what caste they belong to? Moore Virdi Khaira Thanks
  6. TheeTurbanator

    Answering Arguments Against Sikhi

    NOTE: This post is a work in progress Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh! Often times I hear Non-Sikhs bring up common arguments against Sikhi, and as someone who likes to create a lot online resource hubs for Sikhs, I am taking it upon myself to create a list of Q/A's. I recently got a series of arguments (posing as questions) from an anonymous user on the Sikh Reddit who was allegedly Ex-Sikh. He frequently made references to Islam, and also claimed that he had done a lot of research on his "questions", yet the questions themselves seem as if they are taken from wikipedia or some anti-sikh site. Here are some of the arguments I would like to debunk: Q: If Sikhi is against the Caste System, then why are their Caste based Gurdwara's? A: Anyone can just create a "Gurdwara" and install their own beliefs into it, that doesn't make it valid. The key part here is that this cannot be supported by the actual theology of Sikhi, and all the main Gurdwara's still allow people of lower-caste to enter. All of these so called "caste Gurdwara's" are also not backed by the Akal Takth, and are not recognized by the Khalsa Panth. Q: Why were the Gurus themselves all from the Khatri caste and married within their own caste despite preaching against such barriers? A: The very premise of this question is incorrect, Guru isnt from the Khatri caste becuase the concept of caste itself is invalid. There is no evidence to suggest that caste was involved in the marrage decision, and neither was any proposal rejected due to caste. Furthermore, the Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji itself contains writings from people of different "castes" and backgrounds. When the Guru created the Khalsa Panth, the Panj Pyare were from different occupations, locations, and families, the entire concept of the Khalsa itself destroys the caste system. If the Guru was secretly supporting the caste sustem, he would have not created the Khalsa and passed on the Guruship. Gurbani itself is the Guru, and its anti-caste message is very clear, but it's some food for thought. Q: How about the succession of the Gurus? How do we go from the 4 first being chosen by merit and from different lineage, then suddenly it turns into a system of monarchy resulting in the succession of Guru Harkrishan Ji at such a young age who also passed away at a young age. A: "Nepotism" is defined as: The practice among those with power or influence of favoring relatives or friends, especially by giving them jobs. A lot of people like to accuse the Guru of being Nepotistic, and use it to bring down Sikhi by stating the successors of the Guru were not truly worthy of the title. The next Guru was never chosen on the basis of nepotism, and was always chosen based on Merit, the Guru tested each of his followers to see if they were worthy of the title of Guru. We are all just vessels filled with the same light, "family" is an illusion, we are all One. Although some of the Gurus did pass the Guruship on to their human sons, many did not, and even if they did, it was becuase their sons just happened to pass the test.If Sikhi allowed Nepotism, then why didnt Guru Nanak Dev Ji or many of the other Guru's pass it on to their children? Guru Nanak could have easily made Sri chand or Lakhmi Das the next Guru, the same applies with Guru Gobind Singh ji who did not have to let any of his sons sacrifice themselves for Sikhi, and could have asked them to not give Shaheedi. The fact that Guru Gobind Singh Ji established the Khalsa in 1699 before the death of all his human offsprings shows that he was going to stop the line of Human Guru's anyways. The ultimate argument against nepotism in Sikhi is the fact that the Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji & the Khalsa Panth were made the eternal Guru. Hypothetically, even if the Guruship was passed down based solely on Nepotism, I would have no problem with it becuase it is the Guru's decision and looking back at history and how each Guru lives his life, I can say the Guru made the perfect decision. As for Guru Harkrishan Ji, the reason the Guru chose the vessel of a young boy was to show that spirituality isnt affected by age, and even a child can attain liberation. The reason Guru Harkrishan Ji physically passed away at such a young age was to exemplify shaheedi, it makes no sense for the Guru to go around curing other people of small pox, yet die from it himself. Q: why has Sikhi remained confined for the most part to the Punjabi population? A: Sikhs dont go out and actively convert people like people of Abrahamic theologies do, the Sikh community is also generally very young compared to others. This issue is already starting to change, there are already hubs of non-punjabi Sikhs thriving in places like America, Indonisia, UK, Canada, etc, and we just need time. Q: Why did/are some Sikhs converting to other religions, if Sikhi is supreme, then why would people leave it? A: The message itself is supreme, but the people themselves are not. The argument of people leaving/joining a certain religion can be made for any group. The larger abrehamic religions are the ones that generally have a higher turnover rate compared to easter Dharams. Q: why hasn’t history seen Gurus with a similar message in the West or other corners of the world? A: There are other people with similar messages, there's even some new relgion in the west called "Eckankar" which is very similar to Sikhi on certain aspects. Gurbani also contains Bani from a lot of people who lived before the physical arrival of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, who's Bani is inline with Gurmat. Q: Why is Gurbani repetitive? A: I dont know if your reading the english translation or something, but in Gurmukhi the way certain words are used has a different meaning depending on the context. Furthermore, Gurbani is also multilayered, and speaks to the mind during its different states. As for repetitiveness in message, it's important becuase Humans learn from repetition, when you were a child, your parents had to constantly call you by your name so you remember it, etc. Gurbani is not like the abrehamic texts, it is not divided by chapters, but rather by Music. Gurbani does not have dedicated sections for certain topics, becuase as a Sikh our job is not to pick and choose what we want to learn, the Guru teaches us what we need, and the format Gurbani is written in ensures its multi layered and speaks to different people at different stages in their spiritual journey. The fact that there are other Bhagats whose Bani is inline with the Guru, reinforces the Oneness of the message of Sikhi. Q: Why did the Gurus have multiple wives? At least with Islam there is a specific guidelines prescribed, a lot of Sikhs like to argue based on emotion rather than historical evidence. A: The narrative that the Gurus were polygamists is highly contestable on the basis of historical analysis, not emotion. "The story of Guru Har Rai having married seven wives, who were all sisters, is found only in one MS of Suraj Prakash and is written on unpaged leaves which are clearly an interpolation. Unfortunately this copy became the basis of the editions nowadays in vogue. Other copies mention only one marriage. Mahima Prakash, which is much older than this book, also mentions only one wife. See on this point the annotation of Bhai Vir Singh on Suraj Prakash" -Dr. Ganda Singh, Baba Teja Singh; 'A Short History of the Sikhs,' vol. i, pg. 48. Here is a good post discussing this issue As for Islam, providing specific guidelines, I hope you realize that it also provides guidelines to beat ones wife, among many other things... Q: Why so much debate over a simple matter of canon scriptures (the Dasam Granth which oddly enough contains 2 of the prayers forming the Nitnem) A: There isnt "so much" debate over this. the Anti-Dasam granth crowd is a vocal minority, and the Dasam Granth is accepted by the Khalsa Panth as a whole, and even backed by the Akal Takth. Furthermore, the Debate that does happen isnt about the nitnem banis from Dasam Granth (Jaap Sahib, Tav Prasad Savaiye, Chaupai Sahib). Overall, Sikhs have still preserved their scriptures far better than many others, and the Quran itself was never even written down by Muhammad, Jesus never wrote the Bible, etc... Q: Why is there such a controversy over vegetarianism vs meat eating? Why didnt the Guru lay our a clear guideline? A: This wasn't really an issue before the start of the modern day meat industry, but we as a community have turned it into an issue. Sikhs historically ate meat, this is a fact, the reason there is a big vegetarian movement in the Sikh community is mainly due to the modern day meat industry and the idea that Sikhs dont really need meat anymore becuase they have so many more alternatives. As for the actual theology regarding this issue, its already clearly laid out by the Guru: Sikhs are to refrain from Halal Meat, if a Sikhs is to hunt or eat meat, then they must follow the Jhatka Maryada set up by the Guru. More information and sources can be found at jhatkamaryada.com Q: Why are Sikhs encouraged to be critical thinkers, yet told not to ask questions? A: People are getting two concepts confused: its ok to question the Guru similar to how a student questions a teacher, however its discouraged to question for the sake of trying to create an arguement or disruption. Final Thoughts A deep underlying issue that motivates a lot of these arguments is the idea that if Sikhi is true, then why would it not also temporally reign supreme, and why would "bad things" happen to Sikhs if they are morally correct? The answer to this is the simply: Hukam, and the fact that "good" and "bad" dont really exist. However, the issue here is that others will see this as a cop out. I am interested in developing a more indepth response to this strain of thought. Any recommendations? Feedback If you have any suggestions, please let me know any way you can, you can also email me at TheTurbanatore@gmail.com or contact me via Reddit at reddit.com/u/TheTurbanatore
  7. I know castes are stupid and they make no sense but why don’t the majority if not all chamars have Singh in their name. I come from a “jatt” family and even before I have taken Amrit my family kept Singh as their last name (no ones amritdhari apart from me, I’m only 17), even in school all my friends have singh either as their last or middle name, and my “chamar” friends don’t have it. Why don’t they have it? I thought they were Sikh as well as they have Maharaj saroop in ravidas gurdware? (I know all gurdware are caste free, but let’s be real they really aren’t)
  8. VJKK VJKF I am really confused because Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj said that in Sikhi there is no caste system so why do people still mention: Jatt etc especially in films I mean you get films called: Jatt & Juliet and this makes me wonder why people still hold on to this mindframe. We are all equal in Sikhi so why the castes? I don't believe in this sort of unfair mindset. I did not mean to offend anyone that was not my intention. VJKK VJKF
  9. WJKK WJKF, I have been wanting to marry a girl who belongs to another caste. We've been together for a few years now and have been trying to move our relationship forward. My parents have been adament on not letting this happen whereas her parents are ready to move forward since the day my partner convinced them to overlook my caste. Despite me trying to explain to my parents that she is what I would want as my life partner and what our house would need as a daughter in law (ie. family-centric, caring, vegetarian, wants to progress in Sikhi with me, and etc.), caste is the only thing they see. My parents have even said said to let her go and find someone in my caste and they'll be happy (which is funny because there are not that many people of my "caste" around me anyways so regardless, it would have been be impossible for me to even find anyone unless they'd want me to marry my cousins or distant cousins lol). Ideally they want to arrange my marriage. I have explained so much that these caste differentials are not important anymore now and should've never been. And that Gurbani itself condemns this many times. I guess I can't bring Gurbani more into this as I would be a hypocrite since I am still struggling in some aspects of Sikhi and gradually working towards a Gurmat mindset. But anyways, they don't want to listen. They are worried more about what will relatives think and that our so called "enemies" will laugh at our family. And they keep saying they had so many "reeja" for my marriage (I think this would translate to expectations of getting me married in their idealistic way). I feel like the underlying issue is that they don't want to "lose" their son as they feel like they won't have as much "control", for lack of a better word, if my wife turns out to be a total nutshell and destroys the family or something lol. I tried to console them on this matter as my partner isn't that way and wants to live within my family in harmony. I have always been the obedient child out of choice so they won't have to deal with any extra nonsense in life from my end (until now I guess in their perspective). With Guru ji's Kirpa, I've graduated, have a well paying job, and carry my own weight. I continue to live at home and have my share of family responsibilities. I believe it's my duty. I have done nothing to show my parents that I can't make logical/well thought out decisions in life. So I'm not sure why they can't trust my decision of being with my partner. My partner wants to live the same lifestyle with my family as that is what she was looking for as well. I can't think of being with anybody else. The over-infatuation or honeymoon phase is long gone and we want to convert our relationship into a life of living responsibly with Sikh values and subtracting the negative Punjabi cultural values (flashing wealth, caste discrimination, gender discrimination, alcoholism, God-men Dera worship, chuggli nindya, you name it). How can I convince my parents? It has been taking me so long trying to convince them and has taken a toll on my mental health. I don't want to elope and run away from home as that would not be Gurmat. It would tear me apart and be unfair to her family as they have been understanding and are basically on standby until my family is on board. Has anybody else been in a similar situation? Any suggestions would be much appreciated!
  10. Guest

    Punjabi Cinema

    Why do a good majority of Punjabi movies promote caste when we as Sikhs ideologically are not supposed to be following the caste system? If the word "Jatt" isn't mentioned in a typical movie (which most likely it will) then at least the last names of all major characters are mentioned to indirectly denote their caste. I don't get why this agenda is pushed out by Punjabi Cinema and no one really speaks against it? Because it appeases the majority population and thus usage of this single word can make the film a cash cow? I don't mean to take jabs at anyone, as the only example I can use in context of Punjabi Cinema is Jatt promotion. But I guess the point of my question is; why is any type of caste promotion of any caste not looked down upon by mainstream Sikh Punjabis? Is there a solution to it?
  11. AjeetSinghPunjabi

    Is Sikhism really hijacked by Jattism ?

    I remember a video went viral in 2010 or something in which an angry Dalit Buddhist/Sikh lady was seen giving angry speech in a funny punjabi accent, complaining about how Sikhism was hijacked by the same baahmanwaad that it aimed to eradicate. and how Sikhism was not really separate ideologically from Buddhism. She was perhaps a neo-buddhist and Ambedkar follower named Kamlesh Ahir. Kamlesh Ahir's speech was mostly about woes of so-called low castes being denied active participation in indian religions. And how sikh gurus tried to revive Buddhas ideals of casteless society equal for all, but that Sikhism was failed by Sikhs themselves. I agree with her only partly! In this video, the same lady (in funny frantic voice) is heard complaining about how Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar wanted to convert to sikhi along with his 5 million followers but was let down by Jatt-dominated Akalis who feared losing control of harmandar sahib. So as a result Ambedkar ji had to convert to Buddhism along with his followers and they also burnt manusmriti , a hindu text which is still celebrated by buddhists in india as "manusmriti dahan diwas". The lady also complained about how Sikhs don't want chamaars, Ravidasias , Valmiks and other downtrodden along with them , and as a consequent Sikhi is not really spread . (Khalsa college of mumbai of which I myself am an alumni is a really cool college founded by Babasaheb Ambedkar himself). So I will give her credit. Anyways, coming to point , Is Sikhi really totally dominated by Jatts , esp when it comes to filling top clergical and administrative posts in SGPC gurudwaras ?? If so , its a really shame for our panth. We need to introspect deeply. We feel delighted at sight of white/black sikhs , then why we should feel hesitation to accept downtrodden low-castes of india who will benefit from sikhi the most. You can hear her here (again I don't agree with her at times , and she sound really bullsshit sometimes, but she does make a point about casteism in sikhi) :
  12. Guest

    Help marriage issue

    Waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh Sangat please help me with this problem i am having. I am from the UK, and my family is sikh. Although i do not believe in caste because i follow sikhi, my family is chamar. I met a girl while studying at university and we became friends, however this accidentally blossomed into love without meaning for it to. She is also sikh, but her family is Jatt, and they are very casteist. Although she herself does not believe in caste because she also tries to follow sikhi, her family believe in it strongly. Now we all know here that there is no jaat paat in Sikhi, is there a way to convince her family? I have met them before just as her friend and they assumed i am Jatt because they think I look like one. My and my family do not fall into any stereotypes they may have about lower castes for example: we are all fair skinned, we follow pure sikhi, we are relatively well off etc. I am very well educated, i have a good job and i get told that i am a very good natured and caring person. Another issue i have is her parents have said that she can marry a Jatt or a Tarkhan but not a Chamar. Surely marrying out of caste to any different caste should be treated the same. Please help with how to resolve this, and give me any advice you can. Thank you
  13. Guest

    Lost the one I love

    Not sure where to start but I really liked this girl or woman should I say. I think it was love at first sight. I had never had this experience before. This girl was the woman of my dreams. Highly educated professional. unbelievablbly beautiful and respectful. Not like those rude and obnoxuous clubbing type of girls who I generally tend to meet these days. She was beautiful both inside and out. The only issue is that she came from a so called higher caste (Jatt) and not only that she was Doctor. Hence I dont think I would ever have been good enough. Seeing as I had a normal day to day job. She came from a wealthy background also. I like her but did not even ask her out as I knew what the answer would be or I knew she would eventually turn me down knowing I was not in her league in terms of occupational and social standing. Also there is the fact that I am not from her caste. Her family would never have accepted me. Hence I did not pursue anything with her. I did not want to create any problems in her life with her family. So I just accepted I was not good enough and moved on with my life. Hoping in the mean time she would find someone who would make her happy. As that is all I wanted more then anything. Anyway I recently discovered she got married to another very wealthy Doctor. When I saw the pics it made very happy to see her find someone who looks to be good and decent person. But at the same time it kind of hurts as I would have liked to marry her. Although seeing her so happy. Im just glad she is happy as that is all I want.Aeeing pics of her parents so happy and all her family over the moon. But I am just thinking of what could have been and am struggling to get over her.
  14. Guest

    Caste in Sikh Minds

    Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh! Can anyone explain logically why caste still exists in our Panth? Especially among those who tell everyone caste doesn't exist to the outside, but when it comes for actually putting it into practice they forget everything about the right side. There are Hindus today who value their personal caste less than some Sikhs which is just depressing if you asked anyone. Also how can we logically combat this idea in some old-aged Pakhandis minds. Especially among Pakhandidharis, (those who took Amrit yet still keep Non-Sikh practices), which makes people question the need for Amrit. Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!
  15. Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh! (NOT INSULTING ANY INDIVIDUAL KHATRIS OF MODERN DAY!) Something Daas wanted to know was from the time of before Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji, why didn't the Punjabi Khatris defend Punjab from all the invaders that conquered Punjab, like the other Kshatriya Clans from outside Punjab, for example the Rajputs kept their idea of protecting their land as Kshatriya clans, so what prevented the Punjabi Khatris from doing the same all the years before Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji? On the one hand Bhai Gurdas mentions the clans of Bedis and Sodhis in extremely high respect, (for having the form of Vaheguru being born in them, not for merely being Khatri), but on the other side, "ਦਾਨ ਖੜਗ ਮੰਤੁ ਭਗਤਿ ਸਲਾਹੀ ॥੧੦॥ Daanu Kharhagu Mantu Bhagati Salaahee ॥10॥ दानु खड़गु मंतु भगति सलाही ॥१०॥ The real khatris is he who gives charitably, wears arms and remembers God with loving devotion." (Bhai Gurdas Vaaran 8 Pauri 10), so what exactly was there job if they didn't give their Shastars and doing Bhagti? Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!
  16. Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh! Why didn't the "Low-Caste" people in India become Sikh, especially with the values of equality and many other things within the path of Gurmat that wasn't in Hinduism or Islam, (especially with the whole superiority complex in both religions, with Indian Muslims considered less than Arab Muslims and Low-Caste Hindus being considered lower caste than Brahman Hindus?) What I'm trying to understand is why these people would just stay being treated like dogs and animals rather than accept Gurmat, (which has complete equality). There were clearly some who did become Sikhs though like the Vanjarias, and others; but there are still more low-caste Hindus than there are Brahmans. Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!
  17. Part II of Tisarpanth's Misconceptions Series. Here two main misconceptions are answered: 1.) Sikhi survived due to the sole efforts of the Jats and, 2.) Sikhi was a reaction against contemporary economics. To quote a few portions: 'Sikh history, and tradition, substantiates that no lapse was ever tolerated from the faith’s ideology. The names of Baba Atal Rai and Baba Ram Rai are only some of the many examples which depict the penalties imposed upon those who, for one reason or another, deviated from established norms. The former resurrected a victim of snakebite and was so sternly reprimanded by his father, the sixth Guru, that he discarded his mortal frame whilst the latter intentionally changed a line of Gurbani and was excommunicated by his own father, the seventh Guru. Summarily we can easily conclude then that it is impossible to assert that the sixth Guru who was more than satisfied to witness his own son’s demise, but could not tolerate any deviation from the faith’s ideology would concede to any demands made by the Jats.' 'Non-Sikh records mention the respect with which the Sikhs treated women, even extending courtesy and safety to those who were of their sworn foes. (19) If compared with Jat practices, historic and present, than these contrast starkly as the Jat objectification of women is a well known fact. Secondly, the Sikh ability to unite in face of a common threat historically is a well-established fact. This principle emerged out of two factors namely a channeling of all energies towards achieving a singular goal, and a singular interpretation of the faith. The Jats were and still are avid worshipers of Jatheras or shrines dedicated to some Sisyphean ancestor(s). (20) With each locality, tribe, clan, village espousing a different ancestor any ideological unity and singular channeling of energy is impossible. The establishment of Bharatpur can only be called a miracle as the Jat unity forged for it’s establishment soon disintegrated afterwards.' https://tisarpanthdotcom.wordpress.com/2016/04/24/misconceptions-ii/
  18. JSinghnz

    Ban Casteist Posters

    Heaps of threads on our forum have been ruined by casteist, backward posters who bring in caste in topics. High time they should be banned to give a strong message that SikhSangat has zero tolerance for such rogues who despite knowing Sikhi is against caste system always talk about castes.
  19. Its a huge problem in punjab, but I don't see any organizatoins speaking about or tackling issue
  20. Dear Fellow Members, I want to discuss the growing matter of casteism in Sikhism, As far as I am aware when our Guru ji created/started panth khalsa. He abolished all the evil roots of casteism in Sikh culture and he created a guideline that a sikh should be identified and known as a sikh . And there should be no place of caste system in SIkh culture. But look at us today, we are so lost in casteism itself that we are known as Jat sikhs or Khatri sikhs or ramgharia and so on (No offense to anyone) Even though we have dedicated gurudwaras to the different community here. I dont mean to harm anyone emotions here. Please pardon me if I have. But what do you all think as a sikh. Is it correct to give uprise to casteism itself in our culture which guru ji abolished. Please give me your views. And Another thing is that this issue is being promoted in regards to the marriages as well. I am a Sikh for all I know, But where ever I or my parents speak about the matrimony. The first question which is being asked is what caste do you belong to. I mean how does it matters ? If I am a jat or khatri or ramgharia, we all are sikhs and thats what should be imp. But for about 80% it matters a lot. I dont know what difference does it makes but Jatts only wanna marry in their same caste and so as ramgharias. How does it matters that if a person is a wierdo and do all sort of crazy stuff like drugs and do all kind of thngs but while marrying their daughter to him wont be an issue, only bcoz he is of their same caste. And on the other hand there is a guy like me who is educated, decent, religious person but nope, they wont marry their daughter with him only bcoz I do not belong to their caste. I have had enough of this caste system. And then there is another issue which is only because I wear a turban and don't trim my beard, most of the girls wont go for a guy like me bcoz of this reason. Its such a shamefull thing to say that people who are taking care of our Gurudwara have started registering for matrimonial alliance and they have put an option where a girl has to opt that does she needs a turbaned sikh or a clean shaven. If the gurudwara will support these actions then who is gonna stand with the gursikhs ? I mean this is the limits where these people can go. What kind of Sikh is a Clean shaven, A clean shaven person is not a sikh. He has lost the main identity of being a sikh. I have seen a lot of people who are going thru these difficulties and because of these things boys are cutting down there kesh and going out of sikhi. Please let me know your views on this. And again please if I have hurted any ones emotions, knowingly or unknowingly. Please accept my apologies.
  21. Unity121

    Racist Rant On Sangat Tv!

    I was quite shocked last night when I watched a programme called Derby Q & A on Sangat television. There were some really good points made by the panel and some of the speakers at Derby Gurdwara. Then with a couple of minutes to go a guy comes on with a white beard aged about 60 called bhai sucha. He goes on to compare so called lower caste people to toilet water and then says ' do you drink water from the toilet or the tap? why do you drink it from the tap? if they start improving their qualities then people will start liking them!!' I couldn't believe what I was hearing. He ruined all the good points Joga Singh had made before him. It is 2014 for Gods sake and we are still letting guys like this on Gurdwara stages!!! Even the BNP have toned down their language compared to this fascist!! Sangat Tv need to explain who this Singh was speaking on behalf of because he doesn't represent the views of the Gursikhs I have met. Some people have said he was representing AKJ who had a samagam after, whilst others are saying he is a pardhan from Kempston Gurdwara. Either way shame on him for disgracing Sikhi live on tv all over the U.K & Europe! He should apologise on air and explain they are his own views and not that of Sikhs, Gurudwaras, Sangat TV, the AKJ or whoever.
  22. Vaheguru ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru ji Ki Fateh Sangat ij I want to bring to your attention the ever growing problem of the caste system not only among punjabi people as a whole but from those who call themselves Amritdhari We are looking for a partner for our relative who comes from an amritdhari family just as we are and we often getting asked our caste and then rejected. I will post a email conversation up that I had recently speaking with a relative of a potential partner. In it the family member says 'we are amritdhari but looking for jatt' I'd like sangats views
  23. The Punjab Cabinet approved the Backward Class (BC) status for the Jatt Sikhs of the State on 5 March 2014. With this, Jatt Sikhs will be the 70th community to be included in the category. The grant of Backward Class status to the Jatt Sikhs will enable them to get reservation in government jobs. Jatt Sikhs of Punjab had been left out of the Indian Cabinet’s decision because the Punjab government had failed to bring the community in the State Backwards Class list. A few days earlier, the Indian Cabinet decided to include the Jat community in the central list of Other Backward Classes in nine States: Himachal Pradesh, Uttar Pradesh, Madhya Pradesh, Bihar, Gujarat, Uttarakhand, Delhi, Haryana and Rajasthan. The latest move by the Punjab Cabinet will now facilitate a proclamation by the Government of India that Jatt Sikhs are now, nationally, a Backward Class.
  24. we are all aware of the trends in present day society there is one great demon of brahminical origin that is far away form sikh principles but still has crept in sikh societies we commonly are confronted with words like - jatts,ramgharias,bhappas,khatris etc etc... and ego-clashes among them how and from where this castiesm has crept in our society ?? the society which was based on:- "manas ki jaat sabhae eko pehchaanbo" what problems and dillusions it causes in minds of sikhs??? and how should we eradicate it and tackle it in our daily life???
  25. CHANDER SUTA DOGRA The National Commission for Scheduled Castes (NCSC) has issued a notice to the Punjab Director General of Police (DGP) to investigate and reply to charges about caste-based segregation in historic gurdwaras of the State. The NCSC notice that comes on a representation by Abroo, a socio-political initiative working for empowerment of the marginalised in Punjab, was also studied by its own Atrocities and Protection of Civil Rights Wing. Abroo had commenced a project, titled ‘Punjab’s Map of Shame’, last year, after it stumbled upon what it calls several “shocking and blatant cases of apartheid happening in well-known gurdwaras” in the State. Sikhism does not recognise caste and to strive for a casteless society is one of the basic tenets of the faith. In its letter to the NCSC, Abroo founder Pukhraj Singh said though the Shiromani Gurdwara Prabandhak Committee (SGPC) acknowledged existence of caste-based gurdwaras in the State, his investigation revealed cases of institutionalised and systemic segregation perpetrated by well-entrenched elements of the Sikh establishment. Calling for an investigation into these transgressions, Mr. Singh demanded that the control of such gurdwaras be handed over to provisional and progressive bodies. This would reinforce the point that gurdwaras were not merely religious bodies but centres of social upheaval; places where the common public can take charge to implement the shared ethos. Citing the Gurdwara Reform Movement of early 20th century, he said, “Spiritually-sanctioned prejudices, in a religion that abhors ritualism, is evidence of deep-rooted subversion of the Sikh philosophy and its spiritual tenets.” Commenting on these findings, SGPC president Avtar Singh Makkar said, “There is no place for caste-based discrimination in Sikhism, and if such a matter comes to our notice, we persuade them to stop it. We also issue appeals from time to time to follow the Sikh tenets.” Kiranjot Kaur, SGPC member and its former general secretary, said: “Though caste issues have always plagued Sikhism and from time to time, the SGPC has been passing resolutions that caste-based discrimination is not compatible with the basic tenets of the faith, many of these gurdwaras are not recognised by the SGPC as authentic sources for the interpretation of Sikh philosophy. Even an apex seminary like the Damdami Taksal discriminates on caste and gender.” Ms. Kaur, however, admitted that though the influence of caste had been ejected from gurdwaras after the Singh Sabha movement of the early 20th century, it has once again reared its head in the religion due to caste-based politics in recent years. Some notable examples documented in the representation to the NCSC include Sur Singh, a 350-year-old Sikh seminary in Taran Taran, where Mazhabi Sikhs (Scheduled Castes) are not only given ‘amrit’ (as part of the Khalsa baptism ceremony) from a separate utensil but are also referred to by the clergy as Chauthey Paurey Wale (people from the fourth step) to justify the discriminatory treatment. Mr. Pukhraj Singh says, “The Sikh seminary is being managed by Baba Dayal Singh, commander of Bidhi Chand Dal, one of the four battalions of the Khalsa army.” The representation further notes that in Gurdwara Raja Ram in Dhotian, Mazhabi Sikhs are barred from performing ‘langar sewa’ because “they look dirty.” The gurudwara is being run by a powerful baba, who is well-connected with the SGPC and who has been instrumental in renovating several crumbling historical Sikh shrines in recent years. It goes on to provide several other examples of caste-based injustices from gurdwaras in Sarhali, Lehra Khana and Joge Wala. Keywords: Punjab gurudwaras, caste-based segregation, National Commission for Scheduled Castes http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/probe-castebased-segregation-in-gurdwaras-panel-tells-punjab-dgp/article5422572.ece?
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