Did we even need Khalistan?

[kurtas]

Sat Sri Akal

.... If we got Khalistan how we will be no different then the Hindus or Muslims. I believe God chose the Sikh people to live with everyone.

Sat Sri Akal.....

95698[/snapback]

Then why don't you advocate for the dismantling of the seperate nations of pakistan and india? That would be a start, there probably use to be no border per se between any country in asia, the middle east and europe. You would advocate for the dismantling of all those nations too right?

You live in a home with borders, you have walls, a property line. You take care to respect the autonomy of your neighbours by not treating their place as if it was your home. BUT this does not mean that you don't live with everyone.

Think about it a bit more and elaborate on what you have posted above.

95700[/snapback]

Great reponse Buddasingh Ji.

Question for untitled singh ..what do you do when the verse Raj Karega Khalsa comes up in Ardas? Do you just keep silent and miss it out of your Ardas?

95703[/snapback]

I suggest you read about "Raj Karega Khalsa" in a bit more depth. It is certainly does not mean what you are espousing.

Also Raj Karega Khalsa certainly does not equal Khalistan. The Khalsa has existed for centuries wheras khalistan is the brianchild of a few radicals (many of whom were quite happy to be MLA etc in India until they passed over for ministerial roles just like those who advocated Sikhistan in the 1960s). Also I have never understood how anyone can corrupt the word Khalsa to Khalis. Can anyone explain how the Khalsa was corrupted to Khalis.

95716[/snapback]

Raj Karega Khalsa = rule of the Khalsa

Khalistan = rule of the Khalsa

Maybe you should be doing the indepth reading

FYI Khalistan is not the brainchild of a few radicals, where have you been doing your indepth reading? A sovereign Sikh state whether it be Khalistan or a Sikhistan has been an issue since the 1920's when the Babbar Akalis started their campaign. In 1947 even the bootlicker in chief Khushwant Singh states that a majority of the Sikhs were in favour of the sovereign Sikh state. The Sikh leadership were checkmated by both the Hindus and the Muslims. The concept of a state ruled by the Sikhs did not die with the annexation of Panjab in 1849. Bhai Maharaj Singh in the 1840's, Baba Ram Singh in the 1870's, Maharaj Duleep Singh in the 1880's right through to Sant Jarnail Singh in the 1980's, each was an attempt to bring back the lost rule of the Khalsa.

95728[/snapback]

Once again you show how you have been naivety in what you believe Raj Karega Khalsa to mean. I suggest you look in depth at what the word Khalsa means and study the various papers published analysing the words Raj Karega Khalsa.

Oh so the Babar Akalis started a campaign in the 1920s for Khalsitan ?? Obviously lacked support as 85 years on people are still not for it.

Khalistan is the brain child of a few hot heads like Dr Chohan and Dr Sohan Singh. Who happily lived abroad whilst innocent people were being gunned down by the state and militants and when militancy came to an end they happily returned back to live in their kotia around Chandigarh. I dread to think what publications you have been reading.

As for boot-licker Kushwant Singh. He has done a lot of writing, which if you ever bother to read tells how innocent people were killed by mobs in the 84 riots and he points out how the GOI was to blame. He also openly spoke out against Bluestar. Tell me what have you done to make people around the world aware of what happened in 84 ?

[kurtas]

many punjabis are still being opressed or still fear the powers of the indian govt forces......its not they dont want a seperate land or want khalistan......its that they fear the consequences of sayin they do......they fear being murdered like 250 000 of their brothers and sisters..........iraqis never wanted sadaam out of power when he wuz still in power did they?.......germans never spoke against hitler when he was power......and oh ya hitler wuz voted in thru democratic means........oh and dont 4get urs truly george w bush.......all these are examples of sumthing called the fear factor........

it seems to me like u speak like there shud be no divisions at all....only one nation.....nothing else......did u ever stand up in school for ur national anthem, if so why?....unity has its own borders......sikhs will be sikhs....muslims will be muslims.....canada will be canada....america will be america.....its about gettin along.....not assimilating everyone into one community.....cuz not everyone has the same beliefs...whether its in the way a country shud be run or sumthing else........when everyone lives together....according to this dream.....will we follow islamic law?....or the rules of sikhi or christianity?.....or will everyone follow their own rules....in their own communities.....communities equal borders........think bout it....oh and im assuming u believe the Jews shud have sucked it up and managed to live in nazi germany.........ps the state of sikhi is that it still under attack.....groups like rss are doin all they can to destory the panth....another reason why sikhs cant speak up.....cuz youth is brainwashed....they arent even taught how to speak punjabi in PUNJAB...they are also being fed drugs in indias attempt to keep them opressed and ignorant to whats goin on....now if u believe that khalistan isnt or wasnt ever needed......u spit on the graves of all 250 000 shaheeds....and Baba Jarnail Singh Khalsa Bhindranwala ji......who never asked for khalistan unless akal takht was attacked......and guess what the indian govt urs truly felt they needed to attack akal takht....soo even if you dont want to seperate or felt their was ever a need.....seems to me the indian govt felt differently.....knowingly attacking akal takht with the statment that any attack would lay the foundation stone for khalistan.....and the rss continues to hold that true...by continuously attackin sikhi.....trying driving it out of punjab and destroying it.........but i guess we shud learn to live wit it........or maybe fight it like the Singhs And Singhnees once did....in the 80's.......same shaheeds that felt khalistan shud be last resort if akal takht was ever attacked.....oh and if u wanna do a poll of sikhs in punjab on whether they want khalistan wit honest opinions...count the shaheeds...and prepare for the birth of many new shaheeds....

95733[/snapback]

How you reconcile what you are writing with the fact that Simarjeet S Mann who's party advocate an independent Sikh state openly contest elections. Mr Mann has even won a few elections although his party was completly routed at the last elections.

[soldier_khalistani]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

i could go on all day why khalistan is needed for the sikhs

not just khalistan as in a name or area on a map but a deeper meaning. no matter what people say or do or conclude Khalistan is not just a need but a human right for the Sikhs. so put all the side tracking issues to one side.

sadi jind , sadi jaan, Khalistan KHALISTAN

[>Bikramjit Singh<]

Kurtas wrote

Once again you show how you have been naivety in what you believe Raj Karega Khalsa to mean. I suggest you look in depth at what the word Khalsa means and study the various papers published analysing the words Raj Karega Khalsa.

I shudder to think what kind of papers you are on about, maybe the ones that say that Khalsa means pure so basically it means the 'pure' of heart will rule..not necessarily Sikhs! Are these the papers you are on about?

Since I appear to be naive in thinking Khalsa means Amritdhari Sikhs maybe you can enlighten both myself and the other ignorant members here and tell us what Raj Karega Khalsa means? That would be great sewa on your part

Oh so the Babar Akalis started a campaign in the 1920s for Khalsitan ?? Obviously lacked support as 85 years on people are still not for it.

Its best to modify ones views in the light of any new knowledge that maybe shared in a forum discussion.. not reply with snide remarks.

Khalistan is the brain child of a few hot heads like Dr Chohan and Dr Sohan Singh. Who happily lived abroad whilst innocent people were being gunned down by the state and militants and when militancy came to an end they happily returned back to live in their kotia around Chandigarh. I dread to think what publications you have been reading.

Once again none so blind as those who refuse to see. I have shown you that the idea of a sovereign Sikh state predates your few hotheads by many decades, yet you only repeat the same old drivel.

As for boot-licker Kushwant Singh. He has done a lot of writing, which if you ever bother to read tells how innocent people were killed by mobs in the 84 riots and he points out how the GOI was to blame. He also openly spoke out against Bluestar.  Tell me what have you done to make people around the world aware of what happened in 84 ?

Khushwant Singh is a bootlicker of the Indian Congress party as well as India. He gives many speeches and his views in these speeches are changable according to those listening and those paying the tab. His views on Sikhism has gone from his view that Sikhism is an independent religion to being a sect of Hinduism. Yes you are right he did give a speech against Operation Bluestar yet by the 90's he was a ardent fan of KPS Gill praising his campaign on genocide against the Sikh youth.

[s s Jhamka]

vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh

every one knows the need off the hour is an Independent state ie Khalsa Raaj Khalistan what ever u want to call it. PPL argue over the numbers that support the concept of Khalistan etc Khalsa is not about the numbers game or about what ppl think its about TRUTH & JUSTICE. Ask the singhs and singhni that fought they did not wage war on Hindia for dr chahuan or dr sohan they obeyed the Hukam of Sri Akaal Takhat Sahib as indorsed by the Sarbat Khalsa 26th January 1986. There’s a Hukamnama to wage war on hindia that’s good enuf for me I do not need an election or sum big wig writer to tell me what to do the Shaheeds have laid the foundations and the next generation with lay down their life’s for that Hukamnama.

Ppl who oppose the idea of khalistan forget that it was the blood off those Gursikhs that turned the tied and Sikhs in the west and hindia turned to Guru ji and we became AWARE of what Sikhi is so if it was not for the shaheedias I wouldn’t be here.

Ppl who oppose the demand just don’t become stones in the way of the ppl fighting for it. Get on with ur individual life’s as the ones wanting it want it for the Panth.

our day will come

gur bar akaal

sukdev

[kurtas]

Kurtas wrote

Once again you show how you have been naivety in what you believe Raj Karega Khalsa to mean. I suggest you look in depth at what the word Khalsa means and study the various papers published analysing the words Raj Karega Khalsa.

I shudder to think what kind of papers you are on about, maybe the ones that say that Khalsa means pure so basically it means the 'pure' of heart will rule..not necessarily Sikhs! Are these the papers you are on about?

Since I appear to be naive in thinking Khalsa means Amritdhari Sikhs maybe you can enlighten both myself and the other ignorant members here and tell us what Raj Karega Khalsa means? That would be great sewa on your part

Oh so the Babar Akalis started a campaign in the 1920s for Khalsitan ?? Obviously lacked support as 85 years on people are still not for it.

Its best to modify ones views in the light of any new knowledge that maybe shared in a forum discussion.. not reply with snide remarks.

Khalistan is the brain child of a few hot heads like Dr Chohan and Dr Sohan Singh. Who happily lived abroad whilst innocent people were being gunned down by the state and militants and when militancy came to an end they happily returned back to live in their kotia around Chandigarh. I dread to think what publications you have been reading.

Once again none so blind as those who refuse to see. I have shown you that the idea of a sovereign Sikh state predates your few hotheads by many decades, yet you only repeat the same old drivel.

As for boot-licker Kushwant Singh. He has done a lot of writing, which if you ever bother to read tells how innocent people were killed by mobs in the 84 riots and he points out how the GOI was to blame. He also openly spoke out against Bluestar.  Tell me what have you done to make people around the world aware of what happened in 84 ?

Khushwant Singh is a bootlicker of the Indian Congress party as well as India. He gives many speeches and his views in these speeches are changable according to those listening and those paying the tab. His views on Sikhism has gone from his view that Sikhism is an independent religion to being a sect of Hinduism. Yes you are right he did give a speech against Operation Bluestar yet by the 90's he was a ardent fan of KPS Gill praising his campaign on genocide against the Sikh youth.

95758[/snapback]

Yes I repeat the same drivel because Khalistan is the conception of a few idiots who are now happily living in India. They got innocent people caught in a cycle of violence whilst them and their own families were safe abroad. We had some idiots spouting rubbish about a state called Sikhistan in the 1960s and look what happened to that idea. Same will happen to your ideas. The very name shows how much respect these peopel have for Sikhism.

How can Khalsa become Khalis ? khalis is an arabic word so why would anyone want to have a Sikh state names after an arabic word ? Unless of cause those who came up with the names are fans of Laura Khalil and her song Khalis el-Kalam, maybe they had been to Khalis, a small, provincial capital about 50 miles north of Baghdad or could be that Mawlawi Mohammad Yunus Khalis was the inspiration for them, maybe they met Mawlawi Mohammad Yunus Khalis or were fans of the Hizbi Islami-Khalis.

I was all for a Sikh nation until I visited Punjab and heard people were fed up with police and militant excesses and all they wanted to do was live in peace without the threat of the gun hanging over them. They did not give two hoots about Khalistan, Sikhistan or whatever you decide to call it next.

According to hotheads I have heard Maharaja Ranjit Singh's rule was not Khalsa Raj in accordance with their twisted views. He was a secular ruler and so not on level with them in terms of how faithful to the Sikh faith he was.

What ever happened to the Babba Akalis ? Lost steam didnt they because no one subscribed to their views, just like what has happened to the Khalistan movement. The only people backing it are in the west, if they want it so badly why dont they go and fight for it ? I suspect they are all living confortable lives sitting on their plush sofas surfing the internet trying to propogate their unpopular views.

[naam_jap]

Yeh you are right, the only ppl who want khalistan are in the west, although they forget that the prime minister of India is a sikh anyway.

Even if we get khalistan, there will be corrupt leaders engorssed in pride; so far so they might even get the authority over the religious scriptures and make it another vatican city.

The khalsa doesn't belong to a separate land, he/she is not attached to any land.

[Princess]

Sat Sri Akal

Yes, I think everything that happened in 84 war horrible and at that time Khalistan would have prevented many deaths. But before 1984 why was Khalistan important, many famous authors and web sites say that it would help the Sikh religion to flourish and become pure. I for one am glad that we did not get Khalistan, Guru Nanak Dev Ji taugh that religions can and should live together. If we got Khalistan how we will be no different then the Hindus or Muslims. I believe God chose the Sikh people to live with everyone.

Sat Sri Akal.....

95696[/snapback]

hmmm kk forgive me if im wrong cuz i knw very little bout Khalistan etc but i thought Sikhs wanted Khalistan cuz of the oppression etc. they face in India a.k.a. 'Hindustan'

[Papee Singh]

Waheguru jee ka khalsa Waheguru jee ki fateh

Untitled Singh u say that u are glad we never got khalistan but can i ask you something who did ask for khalistan! Please don't say Sant Jarnail Singh khalsa because i'll say prove it! Cos you will he never asked for khalistan!

secondly you wrote the following

"Our Guru is saying that sovereignty is a must for religion to survive, or it perishes.

Sovereignty meaning self government becasue at that time the Mughals were controling everthing even the Gurudwaras. "

can i say something bani is everlasting and is not restricted to a certain time period! Bani was true when the guru's spoke it. is still true and will always be true!

So when Guru ji gave a teaching it was not just for that for that moment for them sikhs present but for the sikhs of today and the future.

Ask questions like do we need khalitan is jus foolish! no one wanted khalistan sikhs just wanted to be treated with a bit of respect and dignity! and not second class citzens!

Waheguru jee ka khalsa Waheguru jee ki fateh

[Sewadar]

This topic has been discussed so many times before and there is nothing new in this topic except misinterpretation of Gurbani which is NOT allowed on this forum. Next time discuss this topic calmly. No personal attacks. Topic Closed.