Jump to content

language barrier for converts?


Recommended Posts

Good luck, keep it up. you raised very important issues...

1 - how will the youth carry on the sikhism if they dont understand it's mesg in the Gurdwara

2 - who will rise up and sing these glorious praises, if the words uttered with the tongue are not understood by the heart?

3 - how will "strangers" to punjabi language and culture, find a place in Gurdwaras and sadh sangat, if they do not feel welcomed because they do not understand what is going on

4 - how will the spiritual people, searching for the religion that resonates with their heart, come to know of sikhism and get informed?

---- brewing up solutions... post later...

Ambrosia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 28
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Ambrosia (my bother or sister?), come on over to sikhphilosophy.net and join our forum, at least their you can intermingle with more "internationaly experienced" sikhs who are often more open to suggestion and aren't khalistan crazy like so many users are here.

Thinking about moving there soon...

what were you going to say?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ambrosia (my bother or sister?), come on over to sikhphilosophy.net and join our forum, at least their you can intermingle with more "internationaly experienced" sikhs who are often more open to suggestion and aren't khalistan crazy like so many users are here.

Thinking about moving there soon...

what were you going to say?

107863[/snapback]

waheguru jio... i think thats a little harsh.. not all of us are like that.. and as for not helping.. I did give a solution for u there but it seemed like it was ignored... ... neway... good luck with whatever it is u do... hope u get ur answers regardless of where u go to find them

bhul chuk maaf

Fateh

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the 'services' should be in gurmukhi in the main hall....

but they can have gurmat classes in english, like they have at dixie in toronto... where people discuss sikhi in english...

also the projectors with sikhi to the max during keertan is goood, cuz the sangat can read along and read the meanings in english...

english is good to get the 'worldly' meaning, but there are much deeper meanigns that you need to understand gurbani to understand....

so english can be used in gurmat class type settings and on the projector, but in the main hall i think they should stick to punjabi...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the 'services' should be in gurmukhi in the main hall....

but they can have gurmat classes in english, like they have at dixie in toronto... where people discuss sikhi in english...

also the projectors with sikhi to the max during keertan is goood, cuz the sangat can read along and read the meanings in english...

english is good to get the 'worldly' meaning, but there are much deeper meanigns that you need to understand gurbani to understand....

so english can be used in gurmat class type settings and on the projector, but in the main hall i think they should stick to punjabi...

107874[/snapback]

The servces should be in gurmakhi AND english. All should be in the main hall. The main hall is the heart of any gurdwara, and no person who speaks a different languauge should have to be put in their "special place" to understand what's going. Being seperated from the rest or being shuttled off to another room is even worse, because the ppl will feel degraded and left apart of the community.

A good idea is for the english servic to be held in the main hall, but before, or after the punjabi/gurmakhi session, that way, the ppl who want to take part will still get a chance to be in the hall at a busy time, and still be able to be taught at the same time.

This is considerably better than learning everyrthing from the internet, the word of god was not meant to be inaccessible to the public and other languages and cultures. Wouldnt't you agree?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sat Sri Akal:

Why re-invent the wheel? There are many Western Sikhs in New Mexico. Please see if you can get in touch with them and get advice regarding steeing up a group such as the one you are outlining. Who knows...they may already have one. They have already dealt with many of the problems that you are speaking of and might be able to help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sat Sri Akal:

Why re-invent the wheel?  There are many Western Sikhs in New Mexico.  Please see if you can get in touch with them and get advice regarding steeing up a group such as the one you are outlining.  Who knows...they may already have one.  They have already dealt with many of the problems that you are speaking of and might be able to help.

107880[/snapback]

Sometimes re-inventing can be benificial in the end, sometimes you have to take chage and start something new. New mexico, umm, i live in bc canada, a slight difference. A groups should be started here, and i was thinking of a internet group for now.

Could you give me link or number?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

language barrier for new sikhs?

By Khalsa Starr

About half a year ago, i converted to sikhism. And even though i don't call myself a sikh yet (not amritdhari yet), i do try to follow as much of the sikh code of conduct to the best of my ability.  (thanks to s1ngh!! again)

However, I have noticed something while going to the local Gurdwara - all of the talking in the temple was in Punjabi, especially in the main hall. The langar room was also a difficult place to navigate and talk with others since very few spoke fluent english. There were those who did speak both, but not very easily understood.

This made me ask a question: "is there a language barrier for new sikhs?" especially converts?. I asked this question because for new people, we want to learn new things and more about sikh teachings. Converts are usually very eager to learn more about sikhi (like myslef). However, it a little difficult to learn when you can't understand what is being said!

Welcome, Friend, to the world of the Western Sikhs, that exotic species that some look at and say, "What on earth is that?"

I am to my knowledge the only American Sikh woman who regularly attends both our local gurudwaras, and heck yes, there IS a language barrier and a mighty one at that! Only in the past year did both gurudwaras go bilingual, with a huge screen up front where they show the English translations of the Bani and Hukams. We do go to Punjabi class, but the language comes slowly to me; I have a learning disability similar to dyslexia.

You must understand that in every ethnic cluster in a given area, people are going to try like all hell to hold on to their cultures. A great example is the Polish community of Buffalo, New York, my hometown. English is hard for foreigners to learn, especially if one comes from the Slavic cultures; and to get together in Polish markets and bars, and churches where Mass was said in Polish, was a comfort zone for people who were trying to get along in a new country. I think it's the same with the Indian Sikhs who've emigrated to North America or UK: they know they need English to get along, but like the comfort of knowing they're among their own, wearing the clothing and eating the food of their culture. A lady at one gurudwara recently told me how she begged and pleaded at her job for Sundays off: she said it was the only time she could speak her language, wear her salwar kameez (considered at her job to be party clothing and inappropriate for the office) and kirpan (my job won't even let me wear a little bitty necklace) and eat the food she knew from her childhood.

The older Indians who go about speaking all Punjabi are the forerunners of Sikhi in the West, and we do owe them a debt of gratitude for opening the door to us converts (I am not Amritdhari, but hope to be soon; I converted 4 years ago.) But I don't blame them for holding so strict and fast to their language and such. Their children are cutting their hair off and setting the turban aside in an attempt to be Western, to blend in, and it's a shame. I love the long, flowing beards and the princely look of the turban, and told my husband I'd kick his butt if he even thought of getting a haircut! The parents are afraid of losing their kids to the frankly decadent, fashion-driven Western culture. Can you blame them at all for wanting to keep a grasp on the rich heritage that is their birthright?

I find that the older folks here may want to speak Punjabi among themselves and are pleased when addressed in the native tongue by American visitors and their two converts, but they recognize that some things must evolve and move into the new millennium. That's why they've gone bilingual in Buffalo. We have a lot of people who want to investigate the faith--most notably gays in the past two years, who find Sikhism more gay-friendly than other religions. And because our two gurudwaras are heavily politically involved and participate in interfaith work, we have many non-Sikh guests. It would be rude to exclude these people, and make the Sikhs look like a bunch of elitist jerks for making them sit through something they can't understand.

It's slow, but the language barrier is breaking down. I do hope they will continue to sing Bani in Gurmukhi, as it was meant to be sung; there is a beautiful holiness to the language, like Latin to the Catholics, and it takes the worshiper into a place in the mind where one can talk to God more deeply. I'm glad for the screen and the downloads from Sikhi To the Max because I can understand what I'm singing along with.

It may be that the Western Converts may have a special purpose in this day and age: we are the link between cultures and faiths and may help others understand who we are, what we do and why. A lot of Christian people (especially in the USA)have a severe distrust of any Eastern faith, more from lack of knowledge than anything else. After 9/11 there are a lot who confuse Sikhs with Muslims and think anyone in a turban is about to throw a bomb. Maybe we'll be the ones to convince them that we don't throw bombs, we're not a cult, and that peace must be sought first before other ways of settling matters ("When all *other means* have failed, it is righteous to draw the sword.")

Sooner or later we'll find that, no matter how we say, in the end we are all speaking the same language.

Blessed be,

BahaPolska

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sat Sri Akal:

Why re-invent the wheel?  There are many Western Sikhs in New Mexico.  Please see if you can get in touch with them and get advice regarding steeing up a group such as the one you are outlining.  Who knows...they may already have one.  They have already dealt with many of the problems that you are speaking of and might be able to help.

107880[/snapback]

Sometimes re-inventing can be benificial in the end, sometimes you have to take chage and start something new. New mexico, umm, i live in bc canada, a slight difference. A groups should be started here, and i was thinking of a internet group for now.

Could you give me link or number?

107881[/snapback]

www.3ho.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share


  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • yeh it's true, we shouldn't be lazy and need to learn jhatka shikaar. It doesn't help some of grew up in surrounding areas like Slough and Southall where everyone thought it was super bad for amrit dharis to eat meat, and they were following Sant babas and jathas, and instead the Singhs should have been normalising jhatka just like the recent world war soldiers did. We are trying to rectifiy this and khalsa should learn jhatka.  But I am just writing about bhog for those that are still learning rehit. As I explained, there are all these negative influences in the panth that talk against rehit, but this shouldn't deter us from taking khanda pahul, no matter what level of rehit we are!
    • How is it going to help? The link is of a Sikh hunter. Fine, but what good does that do the lazy Sikh who ate khulla maas in a restaurant? By the way, for the OP, yes, it's against rehit to eat khulla maas.
    • Yeah, Sikhs should do bhog of food they eat. But the point of bhog is to only do bhog of food which is fit to be presented to Maharaj. It's not maryada to do bhog of khulla maas and pretend it's OK to eat. It's not. Come on, bro, you should know better than to bring this Sakhi into it. Is this Sikh in the restaurant accompanied by Guru Gobind Singh ji? Is he fighting a dharam yudh? Or is he merely filling his belly with the nearest restaurant?  Please don't make a mockery of our puratan Singhs' sacrifices by comparing them to lazy Sikhs who eat khulla maas.
    • Seriously?? The Dhadi is trying to be cute. For those who didn't get it, he said: "Some say Maharaj killed bakras (goats). Some say he cut the heads of the Panj Piyaras. The truth is that they weren't goats. It was she-goats (ਬਕਰੀਆਂ). He jhatka'd she-goats. Not he-goats." Wow. This is possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard in relation to Sikhi.
    • Instead of a 9 inch or larger kirpan, take a smaller kirpan and put it (without gatra) inside your smaller turban and tie the turban tightly. This keeps a kirpan on your person without interfering with the massage or alarming the masseuse. I'm not talking about a trinket but rather an actual small kirpan that fits in a sheath (you'll have to search to find one). As for ahem, "problems", you could get a male masseuse. I don't know where you are, but in most places there are professional masseuses who actually know what they are doing and can really relieve your muscle pains.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use