CASTE!!

[chardi_kalaa]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

I too would like "Doctor" Mani to explain his reasons for why he thinks it is okay for Sikhs to go to Mandir.

The question I ask is why would a Gursikh want to go to a Mandir in the first place? Why go to a place where rituals and ceremonies take place, ones that Guru Jee has told us to stay away from? What would you want to do there? Forgive me if I sound ignorant, but I see no logic in this when you have the Gurdwara, the Home of the Guru, to fulfill your needs.

Another benti to "Dr Mani". Could you please stop patronising us by stating definations from the Dictionary? We are not patients or students attending your lectures, and we dont need these definations to help us understand what these words mean. Just by putting a "Doctor" infront of your name, doesnt mean you have the right to question our knowledge.

Forgive me if I have offended anyone,

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[ISingh]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

To be honest I personaly think that the majority of the Sikhs would just laugh if someone told them the Sikhs are part of Hinduism-

And isn't Sikhi already filled with rituals and practices from Hinduism? We've been lost since these practices were slowly put back into Sikhi by our own people who are dogs are for the Indian Government.

Tose who have knowlegde and practice Sikhi will laugh, but the majority don't understand and these ridiculous practices have already become a part of their lives.

I dont believe they are implying the Mandhir is a special place but I believe its just simply what they say- they want to show their respect. Why do we invite close friends to our houses for meals? Its just respect. I think we shouldnt jump to hardcore conclusions unless their is solid evidence- but this was just painting youre own picture withought anything to paint.

Firstly you can't compare your friends from your social life to Guru Ji coming to your house. Thats that. Secondaly there ar

e no hardcore conclusions. What i said was quoted from what the pardaan sahib from Guru Gobind Singh Gurdwara at the time of vasakhi said. He said "they wan't to pay respect", whats wrong with that. He was invited by Singh Sabha to the Gurdwara to question him about what was going on with the Nagar Kirtan-Seen as Leeds Road was where the Nagar Kirtan was starting from. The same Pardaan justfied his answer by saying "Both Hindu and Muslim Bani is in the Guru Granth Sahib." Now if this is came from the Pardhaan of a Gurdwara, then what are the thoughts of the Sangat. Obviously the same.

But fundamently there is nothing wrong for a Sikh to go to Mandhir.

Please give your reasons. Be fair i've given you all the possible reasons, but you still come to this conclusion. Justify your answer. Theres nothing wrong with going to other places of worship for observance of other faiths for your knowledge, but if your saying its ok to go and do idol worship, because thats what they do in a mandhir then you are completely and utterly wrong according to Guru Granth Sahib Ji

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

[*=*SINGH*=*]

WAHEGURU JEE KA KHALSA

WAHEGURU JEE KEE FATEH

This is a prime example of how unity can be achieved. If anyone has not read the the previous constituent 6 conversations between rash veera and gmb_sim veera then please do so. You see they first have conflicting opinions but just by simple disscussion they manage to sort everything out. This is esactly how the Akhal Sikh Association is aiming to achieve unity. Not rocket science is it?

I READ IT AND IT MADE ME CRY :'(

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[doctor_mani]

To the Vir Ji's who want to know why it is OK for a Sikh to go to a Mandhir- well the answer is simply so that he/she could pray to the wonderfull lord Waheguru.

Gurupanth Veera you say,

'Are you saying that there is nothing wrong for Sikhs to go to the Mandir to to take part in worshipping idols, joining in with the arti ceremony or any other hindu practice?'

No I am not implying any of that as I actally did make that clear in my previous article if you read it properaly. Did not Guru Nanak Dev Ji go to a Masjid and continued to worship Waheguru withought any influence from esactly how the Muslim brothers were worshiping Allah? If Guru Nanak Dev Ji can worship Waheguru in a Masjid withought any influences, then why can not his Sikhs worship Waheguru in a Mandhir withought idol worship, arti and any other Hindu practice?

Because of this, not only is it ecceptable for a Sikh to worship in a Mandhir, but in any place of worship e.g. Masjid, Church and ect., as long they are firmly in grip of their identity (internal and external).

Chardi_kalaa Veera you say,

'Another benti to "Dr Mani". Could you please stop patronising us by stating definations from the Dictionary? We are not patients or students attending your lectures, and we dont need these definations to help us understand what these words mean. Just by putting a "Doctor" infront of your name, doesnt mean you have the right to question our knowledge.'

I am not trying to patronise you but if thats the way you feel, I cant help you there brother, thats a psychiatrists job- not a doctors. If you dont like the fact that I do state defonitions from th

e dictionary then you dont have to read them. Another thing, I only state defonitions if I'm in doubt the member I'm replying to knows the meaning of the word either he/she previously used, or I would seriosly like them to come to terms with. You may not be a patient or student attendeing my lectures but you are Guru Ji's patient and therfore you respect the views of the Sadhsangat- like I respect your views. Also- godforbid- you may one day become my patient- would you continue to then let your anger and ego let you die. You may not be attending my lectures, but the whole point of 'www.sikhsangat.com' is so that you can learn from the Sikh Sangat and even share your interesting views with other Sikhs.

ISingh Veera you are absolutly right by saying,

'And isn't Sikhi already filled with rituals and practices from Hinduism?'

But these practices have not infiltrated Sikhism recently but existed from the time Sikhism was founded. This is because the majority of people who were following the teachings of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, when Guru Nanak Dev Ji was born were the Hindus. With the grace of Waheguru Ji these early Sikhs did adapt to the correct way of living as Guru Nanak Dev Ji taught them but there is no doubt that perfoming rituals was not completely abolished. This is very understandable as these early Sikhs had been practicing these rituals for thousands of years and if all of them did not stop the practice of these rituals immediatly, there is nothing suprising about that. Howerver, there is no doubt that ritualism did rapidly decline among the people who followed the teachings of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. The fact that many Sikhs today perform these rituals is too, not very suprising as many of our ancestors originate from the Hindus. Remember Sikhism is still relativly a young religion, and one day practice of such rituals would be abolished in our people.

You also say,

'Firstly you can't compare your friends fro

m your social life to Guru Ji coming to your house. Thats that. Secondaly there are no hardcore conclusions. What i said was quoted from what the pardaan sahib from Guru Gobind Singh Gurdwara at the time of vasakhi said. He said "they wan't to pay respect", whats wrong with that. He was invited by Singh Sabha to the Gurdwara to question him about what was going on with the Nagar Kirtan-Seen as Leeds Road was where the Nagar Kirtan was starting from. The same Pardaan justfied his answer by saying "Both Hindu and Muslim Bani is in the Guru Granth Sahib." Now if this is came from the Pardhaan of a Gurdwara, then what are the thoughts of the Sangat. Obviously the same.'

Firstly, why can not we compare friends from our social life to Guru Ji coming our house? Is Guru Ji not our social friend? Infact you'll find Guru Ji is our only true friend in life as he only tells us the Truth and guides us to liberation. You may say yes Guru Ji is our friend but not our social friend, but if you look back in the times of Guru Gobind Singh Ji- many of his Sikhs went hunting with him- so the sikhs did socialise with their Guru. Infact I believe even Naam Simran is Socialising with Guru Ji and Waheguru Ji as when one meditates on the lords name, Guru Ji showers them with bliss.

Secondly, you did draw a harcore conclusion in you reply by stating,

'Because they know the majority of sikhs dont have a clue and are vulnerable, they ask for Nagar Kirtan to stop outside the mandhir. Why? So they can drill the idea into the Nagar Kirtan sangat that Sikhi is part of Hinduism!!!!'

If the pardhan of Guru Gobind Singh Gurdwara at the time of the 2003 Nagar Kirtan, Bradford said,

'Both Hindu and Muslim Bani is in the Guru Granth Sahib.'

then that is obviously wrong as there is no such thing as 'Hindu Bani' and 'Muslim Bani' in Guru Granth Sahib Ji as, 'Bani Guru, Guru hai Bani'. However I think th

e pardhan was triyng to implement by his statement that Guru Granth Sahib Ji contained Bani written both by Hindus and Muslims e.g. Bani written by Bhagat Kabeer Ji who himself was a muslim.

Finally ISingh Veera I have noticed that you refer the Gudwara you regulary attened by its proper name, 'Singh Sahiba Gurdwara'. However you dont refer to the Gudwara I regularly attened by its proper name. The Gudwara to which you refer to as 'Leeds Road' is infact called 'Guru Gobind Singh Gurdwara' if you alraedy did not know. So my request to you is to call the Gurdwara I regularly attened by its proper name as there is no such thing as 'Leeds Road Gudwara'. Infact you should refer to any Gurdwara by its proper name, not to its location.

Bhull Chuck Maaf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Doctor_Mani

[gurupanth]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Doctor Saaab! (that is if you are really one)

What I dont undertand is why would a Sikh specifically go into a Mandir so he/she could pray to the wonderful Lord Waheguru when they can just go to the Gurdwara to freely practice Sikhi!? What would a Sikh do in a Mandir? Would he/she sit in the corner and confidentially meditate on Waheguru as the rest of them worshipped their idols? Would a Sikh pretend to participate in their singing of hymns from the Vedas but secretly whisper Chopai Sahib to theirselves? Because I am well aware that a Sikh can't just go into a Mandir and openly pray on the Lord Waheguru in the form of doing Simran, Path etc... It is equivalent to Hindus coming into the Gurdwara and practising their beliefs. It would cause tremendous confrontation and conflict.

I know that Guru Nanak Dev Jee went to the Mosque BUT he went there to show a point - the Guru went there and stood by quietly reciting gurbani while the rest performed their afternoon prayer. And when the Qazi stood up to begin the prayer, Guru Nanak Dev Jee took one look at him and laughed as his mind was elsewhere. Guru Nanak Dev Jee went to the Mosque only to demonstrate this, that the mind always wonders even while praying therefore devotion to the Lord cannot be true:

kwjI swihbu eyku qohI mih qyrw soic ibcwir n dyKY ]

kaajee saahib eaek thohee mehi thaeraa soch bichaar n dhaekhai

O Qazi, the One Lord is within you, but you do not behold Him by thought or contemplation.

Guru Nanak Dev Jee did not go to the Mosque so he could EXCLUSIVELY pra

y on Waheguru by reciting Gurbani and doing Simran. So that does not mean that Sikhs could go to the Mosque, Mandir or Church ONLY to woship on Waheguru.

Sorry if I offended

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[ISingh]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

If Guru Nanak Dev Ji can worship Waheguru in a Masjid withought any influences, then why can not his Sikhs worship Waheguru in a Mandhir withought idol worship, arti and any other Hindu practice?

Firstly I've have tried to base my points around Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and have tried where ever possible to back my points with what Guru Granth Sahib Ji says. It seems to me that you have based your arguements on your opinions and haven't provided sources or evidence to back you points. Its clear what Guru Ji says about other faiths:

"The Hindu is blind and the Muslim is one-eyed. The Lord divine is the wiser of the two. The Hindu worships at the temple and the Muslim at the mosque. Namdev serves that Lord, who has neither a temple nor a mosque." (Bhagat Namdev, Gond, pg. 875)

I've said already twice that there is nothing wrong at all in visiting other places of worship for observance and to understand other faiths:

Page 1350

Prabhaatee:

byd kqyb

khhu mq JUTy JUTw jo n ibcwrY ]baedh kuthaeb kehuhu muth jhoothae jhoothaa jo n bichaarai

Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false.

But why??????? What is the sole purpose of a Gurdwara????? So you can go to a Mosque or Mandhir instead. Did you even read what i posted about Guru Nanak Dev Ji? Guru Nanak's parchaar was of Truth, not "I'll go and pray in a mosque and mandir so my Sikhs can do the same." He wanted Hindu and Muslims to realise that there is Only One, whether He be called Alllah or Raam. You say Sikhs can worship in a mandir withought idol worship, arti and any other Hindu practices. So whats the purpose of a Gurdwara, so we can worship waheguroo with idol worship, arti and any other Hindu practices?

Page 730

Soohee, First Mehl:

gurU duAwrY hoie soJI pwiesI ]

guroo dhuaarai <admin-profanity filter activated> sojhee paaeisee

Through the Gurdwara, the Guru's Gate, one obtains understanding.

Page 32

Siree Raag, Third Mehl:

dyvx vwly kY hiQ dwiq hY gurU duAwrY pwie ]

dhaevun vaalae kai hath dhaath hai guroo dhuaarai paae

The Gift is in the Hands of the Great Giver. At the Guru's Door, in the Gurdwara, it is

received.

Page 1015

Maaroo, First Mehl:

gur duAwrY nwau pweIAY ibnu siqgur plY n pwie ]

n>

gur dhuaarai naao paaeeai bin sathigur pulai n paae

Through the Guru's Gate, the Gurdwara, the Name is obtained. Without the True Guru, it is not received.

Page 1074

Maaroo, Fifth Mehl, Solhas:

gur duAwrY hir kIrqnu suxIAY ]

gur dhuaarai har keeruthun suneeai

At the Gurdwara, the Guru's Gate, the Kirtan of the Lord's Praises are sung.

siqguru Byit hir jsu muiK BxIAY ]

sathigur bhaett har jus mukh bhuneeai

Meeting with the True Guru, one chants the Lord's Praises.

Can you do all this in a mandhir, mosque or church. No i think not. Even Bahgat Kabeer Ji Says (Raag Sorath Page 654)

byd purwn sBY mq suin kY krI krm kI Awsw ]

baedh puraan subhai muth sun kai kuree kurum kee aasaa

Listening to all the teachings of the Vedas and the Puraanas, I wanted to perform the religious rituals.

kwl gRsq sB log isAwny auiT pMifq pY cly inrwsw ]1]

kaal grusuth subh log siaanae outh punddith pai chulae niraasaa

But seeing all the wise men caught by Death, I arose and left the Pandits; now I am free of this desire. ||1||

mn ry sirE n eykY kwjw ]

mun rae sariou n eaekai kaajaa

O mind, you have not completed the only task you were

given;

BijE n rGupiq rwjw ]1] rhwau ]

bhajiou n rughupath raajaa

you have not meditated on the Lord, your King. ||1||Pause||

You said:

The fact that many Sikhs today perform these rituals is too, not very suprising as many of our ancestors originate from the Hindus.

Sikhs follow Truth, Guru Granth Sahib Jee. Bani came from Waheguroo (Raag Sorath Page 627)

Dur kI bwxI AweI ]

dhur kee baanee aaee

The Bani of His Word emanated from the Primal Lord.

therefore Sikhs did not originate from Hindu ancestors but Waheguroo.

Firstly, why can not we compare friends from our social life to Guru Ji coming our house? Is Guru Ji not our social friend?

Respect everyone. But you cannot honestly say that you would give your social friend and Guru Jee the same status and respect in your home? Guru is our Only True Friend who will stick with us no matter what we do. Your social friends are materialistic in the world which we live in.

Bani written by Bhagat

Kabeer Ji who himself was a muslim.

If Bhagat Kabeer Ji was a muslim then why has he written Bani?. Why wasn't he doing parchaar of Islam? Because he was a Gursikh, a Sikh of Guru Nanak just like every other who has composed in Guru Granth Sahib. Up until Guru Gobind Singh, the way of initiation was "Charan Pahul":

Varaa Bhai Gurdas Ji

suxI pukwr dwqwr pRB gur nwnk jg mwihM pTwXw]

sunee pukaar dhaathaar prubh gur naanuk jug maahin puthaayaa

The benefactor Lord listened to the cries (of humanity) and sent Guru Nanak to this world.

crn Doie rihrws kr crnwimRq is`KW pIlwXw]

churun dhoe rehiraas kur churunaamrith skhiaa peelaayaa

He washed His feet, eulogised God and got his Disciples drink the ambrosia of his feet.

Wasn't Bhagat Kabir Ji a Sikh accroding to this? If his Bani is in Guru Granth Sahib Ji then wasn't he a disciple of Guru Nanak?

If you say NO then you have no Vishwaas in Guru Granth Sahib Ji at all, and this isn't a hardcore statement, its blatently obvious from your posts

Can other people please put their views forward.

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

[doctor_mani]

Gurupanth Veera, you say,

What I dont undertand is why would a Sikh specifically go into a Mandir so he/she could pray to the wonderful Lord Waheguru when they can just go to the Gurdwara to freely practice Sikhi!?

Although it seems to you, never did I say a Sikh should specifically go to a Mandhir. It seems to me common sense a Sikh should go to Gurdwara for worship but in circumstances such as invitations, a Sikh can go to the Mandhir.

What would a Sikh do in a Mandir? Would he/she sit in the corner and confidentially meditate on Waheguru as the rest of them worshipped their idols? Would a Sikh pretend to participate in their singing of hymns from the Vedas but secretly whisper Chopai Sahib to theirselves? Because I am well aware that a Sikh can't just go into a Mandhir and openly pray on the Lord Waheguru in the form of doing Simran, Path etc...

If you personally are not confident to meditate on Waheguru's name in a Mandhir whilst the Hindus carry out their worship, then there is no need for you to go to the Mandhir. But you can not generalise your cimrcumstances to

every Sikh out there. Praying to Waheguru does not need a time or place, it can, infact it should be done openly withought fear.

I know that Guru Nanak Dev Jee went to the Mosque BUT he went there to show a point - the Guru went there and stood by quietly reciting gurbani while the rest performed their afternoon prayer. And when the Qazi stood up to begin the prayer, Guru Nanak Dev Jee took one look at him and laughed as his mind was elsewhere. Guru Nanak Dev Jee went to the Mosque only to demonstrate this, that the mind always wonders even while praying therefore devotion to the Lord cannot be true:

Sure Guru Nanak Dev Ji went to the Mosque to show a point. But if Sikhs were restricted to go to the Mandhir I'm sure he would have not went there in the first place. Guru Nanak Dev Ji did not specifically go to the Mosque as far as I am aware, but he accepted an invitation and conducted his afternoon prayer there. Another point this shows is that a Sikh does not need a specific location or time to worship Waheguru as I have metioned above.

Guru Nanak Dev Jee did not go to the Mosque so he could EXCLUSIVELY pray on Waheguru by reciting Gurbani and doing Simran.

Errm... I dont recall saying that? Like I have said above, he went because he was invited.

So that does not mean that Sikhs could go to

the Mosque, Mandir or Church ONLY to woship on Waheguru.

A Sikh should not exclusivly go to a place of worship other than the Gurdwara to worship Waheguru, however if invited to attened a place of worship other than Gurdwara, a Sikh should not hesitate to go and pray to Waheguru Ji. However if you dont feel confident in doing so, then you dont have to go.

ISingh Veera, you say,

Firstly I've have tried to base my points around Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and have tried where ever possible to back my points with what Guru Granth Sahib Ji says. It seems to me that you have based your arguements on your opinions and haven't provided sources or evidence to back you points. Its clear what Guru Ji says about other faiths:

I appreciate that you have used references wherever possible from Guru Granth Sahib Ji but not a single one of these quotes actually says something along the lines of,

'A Sikh should only pray to his Lord Waheguru in the Gurdwara Sahib' or 'A Sikh should never attened and worship Waheguru in a place of worship other than the Gudwara Sahib.

"The Hindu is blind and the Muslim is one-eyed. The Lord divine is the wiser of the two. The Hindu worships at the temple and the Muslim at the mosque. Namdev serves that Lord, who has neither a temple nor a mosque." (Bhagat Namdev, Gond, pg. 875)

I've said already twice that there is nothing wrong at all in visiting other places of worship for observance and to understand other

faiths:

QUOTE

Page 1350

Prabhaatee:

byd kqyb khhu mq JUTy JUTw jo n ibcwrY ]baedh kuthaeb kehuhu muth jhoothae jhoothaa jo n bichaarai

Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false.

I respect and agree with these quotes but nowhere do any of them suggest a Sikh can not attened a place of worship other than the Gurdwara and worship Waheguru. Please do not twist the tranlsation just to back up youre own opinions. I admitt I have not used any references from Gurbani- but this is far better than using references that you have hindered to back up your personal beliefes. Although it is always imposible to translate Gurbani 100% in another language, but it is always clear when one has used these translations in a context that simply is way off the point. Gurbani simply and litteraly means what it says.

But why??????? What is the sole purpose of a Gurdwara????? So you can go to a Mosque or Mandhir instead. Did you even read what i posted about Guru Nanak Dev Ji? Guru Nanak's parchaar was of Truth, not "I'll go and pray in a mosque and mandir so my Sikhs can do the same." He wanted Hindu and Muslims to realise that there is Only One, whether He be called Alllah or Raam.

I have never suggested a Sikh should see a Mosque or Mandhir as an alternative to Gurdwara. As I beliefe, the sole purpose of the Gurdwara is so that a Sikh could confidently pray to his/her Lord Waheguru and perform the Sikh practices in a place where the Sikh Sangat accumulates in large numbers. Obviously, it is apperent from this that a Sikh should ideally worship Waheguru Ji only in the Gurdwara Sahib, but when h

e/she is visiting a place of worship other than the Gurdwara Sahib on the basis of education or due to an invitation, then he/she should not hesitate to pray to Waheguru Ji.

You say Sikhs can worship in a mandir withought idol worship, arti and any other Hindu practices. So whats the purpose of a Gurdwara, so we can worship waheguroo with idol worship, arti and any other Hindu practices?

I did not suggest that the point of Gurdwara is so that Sikhs could worship Waheguru with idol worship, arti and other Hindu practices.

QUOTE

Page 730

Soohee, First Mehl:

gurU duAwrY hoie soJI pwiesI ]

guroo dhuaarai sojhee paaeisee

Through the Gurdwara, the Guru's Gate, one obtains understanding.

Page 32

Siree Raag, Third Mehl:

dyvx vwly kY hiQ dwiq hY gurU duAwrY pwie ]

dhaevun vaalae kai hath dhaath hai guroo dhuaarai paae

The Gift is in the Hands of the Great Giver. At the Guru's Door, in the Gurdwara, it is

received.

Page 1015

Maaroo, First Mehl:

gur duAwrY nwau pweIAY ibnu siqgur plY n pwie ]

gur dhuaarai naao paaeeai bin sathigur pulai n paae

Through the Guru's Gate, the Gurdwara, the Name is obtained. Without the True Guru, it is not received.

Page 1074

Maaroo, Fifth Mehl, Solhas:

gur duAwrY hir kIrqnu suxIAY ]

gur dhuaarai har keeruthun suneeai

At the Gurdwara, the Guru's Gate, the Kirtan of the Lord's Praises are sung.

siqguru Byit hir jsu muiK BxI

AY ]

sathigur bhaett har jus mukh bhuneeai

Meeting with the True Guru, one chants the Lord's Praises.

Can you do all this in a mandhir, mosque or church. No i think not. Even Bahgat Kabeer Ji Says (Raag Sorath Page 654)

Sure you can not do this in a Mandhir, mosque or Church. Thats why the Gurdwara is the ideal place for Sikh to worship Waheguru. But nowhere does this quote suggest a Sikh should not go to a Mandhir, Mosque or Church to pray to Waheguru.

You said:

QUOTE

The fact that many Sikhs today perform these rituals is too, not very suprising as many of our ancestors originate from the Hindus.

Sikhs follow Truth, Guru Granth Sahib Jee. Bani came from Waheguroo (Raag Sorath Page 627)

Dur kI bwxI AweI ]

dhur kee baanee aaee

The Bani of His Word emanated from the Primal Lord.

therefore Sikhs did not originate from Hindu ancestors but Waheguroo.

Why cant you interpretate this as it simply is suggesting? It means as you first suggested, 'The Bani of His Word emanated from the Primal Lord.' So whats this got to do with Sikhs originating from Waheguru? To be honest, everyone has orginated from Waheguru as we all have the Lord inside us, so we can delete this from equation and say that many of our ancestors were the Hindus.

QUOTE

Firstly, why can not we compare friends from our social life to Guru Ji coming our house? Is Guru Ji not our social friend?

Respect everyone. But yo

u cannot honestly say that you would give your social friend and Guru Jee the same status and respect in your home? Guru is our Only True Friend who will stick with us no matter what we do. Your social friends are materialistic in the world which we live in.

Thank you Veera, by saying this you made my life easier as you, youreself compared frieds from our social life to Guru Ji.

QUOTE

Bani written by Bhagat Kabeer Ji who himself was a muslim.

If Bhagat Kabeer Ji was a muslim then why has he written Bani?. Why wasn't he doing parchaar of Islam? Because he was a Gursikh, a Sikh of Guru Nanak just like every other who has composed in Guru Granth Sahib. Up until Guru Gobind Singh, the way of initiation was "Charan Pahul":

You have misinterpretated what I was trying to point out. OK Bhagat Kabeer Ji was a Gursikh, but what was he before he became a Sikh? A Muslim. Also, who says a Muslim cant have love for Guru Ji? I have seen many times on Lashkara muslim Jathas singing Gurabani at Gurdwara's in India.

If you say NO then you have no Vishwaas in Guru Granth Sahib Ji at all, and this isn't a hardcore statement, its blatently obvious from your posts

Youre probably saying I have no Vishwaas in Guru Granth Sahib ji at all because I have not up untill now commented on the references you quoted from Guru Granth Sahib Ji. But to be honest I did'nt see the need to

do this as none of your references simply suggested that Sikhs should not attened any place of worship other than the Gurdwara and pray to Waheguru. Twist the interpretaion of Gurbani to support my arguement is the last thing I would do- unlike you have been doing- so who has less vishwaas in Guru Grath Sahib Ji???

QUOTE

ISingh, Vir Ji, if their is a hukamnama stating that Guru Granth Sahib Ji should not be taken to or rest outside any other place other than the Gurdwara- please could you state it. If you are not completely sure if there is such a hukamnama (as it appears to me), you should not presume there is one.

Very true. I shouldn't presume there is one but i will try to confirm this.

Not only do you twist the interpretation of Gurbani, you also presume there are certian bits of Gurbani that you would like to exist just to support youre beliefes- and then you presume I have no vishwaas in Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Doctor_Mani

[gurupanth]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

First of all Doc, I never said that you said that a Sikh can specifically go to the mandir. You, yourself presumed that. What you actually wrote was:

To the Vir Ji's who want to know why it is OK for a Sikh to go to a Mandhir- well the answer is simply so that he/she could pray to the wonderfull lord Waheguru.

In other words, a Sikh can go to the Mandir to pray to the wonderfull lord Waheguru. Well I wrote in reply:

why would a Sikh specifically go into a Mandir...when they can just go to the Gurdwara to freely practice Sikhi!?

Meaning that why would a Sikh go to the Mandir in the first place when the Gurdwara is always open for Sikhs to practice Sikhi without restraint. Logical isn't it. And if I'm not mistaken, you agreed with that which I am grateful of:

It seems to me common sense a Sikh should go to Gurdwara for worship

-QuoteEEnd-->

It appears that you have NOW made clear everything about what you believe and dont believe. You believe that:

A Sikh should not exclusivly go to a place of worship other than the Gurdwara to worship Waheguru, however if invited to attened a place of worship other than Gurdwara, a Sikh should not hesitate to go and pray to Waheguru Ji. However if you dont feel confident in doing so, then you dont have to go.

I more or less agree with everything here. You should have written that in your previous post which would have prevented me in replying thinking that you believe that Sikhs can go to the Mandir, Mosque or Church ONLY to worship Waheguru! I personally wouldn’t go to a Mandir even if invited and I have my reasons but I don’t want to further this topic.

What I disagree with is:

But if Sikhs were restricted to go to the Mandhir I'm sure he would have not went there in the first place.

(I think u meant Mosque here am I right?)

This point has been made before, but still, the message fails to get across. Guru Nanak Dev jee went to the Mosque ONLY to make a point, which you and I both stated, in our previous posts. Guru Nanak Dev Jee couldn’t have made that point effectively WITHOUT going to the Mosque. That doesn’t mean that Sikhs can go to the Mandir or Mosque just because Guru Nanak Dev Jee did – It is not a valid reason!!! Guru Nanak Dev Jee did unusual and extraordinary things just to make a point powerfu

lly and efficiently. You know the story of Guru Nanak Dev Jee and the Hindu pilgrims at Hardwar. That doesn’t mean that we Sikhs can go to the River Ganges just because Guru Nanak Dev Jee went there! There are many more example of this.

You wrote:

If you personally are not confident to meditate on Waheguru's name in a Mandhir whilst the Hindus carry out their worship, then there is no need for you to go to the Mandhir…infact it should be done openly withought fear.

I agree that you should meditate on Waheguru openly and without fear in any place at any time. What I don’t agree with is that if a Sikh goes to the Mandir or Mosque and starts to do Simran loudly and openly whilst the Hindus worship. That would be very insulting for the Hindus and would infuriate them to cause tremendous conflict and confrontation. It would also be egotistical and arrogant. If I by some unknown reason was in a Mandir, I would meditate or recite bani quietly BUT without fear because you should respect others beliefs as:

ihMdU qurk duhUM mih eykY khY kbIr pukwrI ]3]7]29]

hindhoo thuruk dhuhoon mehi eaekai kehai kubeer pukaaree

The One Lord is within both Hindu and Muslim; Kabeer proclaims this out loud. ||3||7||29||

This is what Guru Nanak Dev jee did when he went to the Mosque – he did not recite gurbani loudly, but remained quiet and disciplined and recited bani quietly as the muslims performed their evening prayer.

Also, you have misunderstood some of my points such as this:

Guru Nanak Dev Jee did not go to the Mosque so he could EXCLUSIVELY pray on Waheguru by reciting Gurbani and doing Simran.

Errm... I dont recall saying that?

I never said that you said that! I don’t know if you misunderstood or if I didn’t write too clearly, if so, forgive me.

Sorry if I offended

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[ISingh]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

As much as i am tempted, i will not reply on this thread anymore

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

[ISingh]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

As much as i am tempted, i will not reply on this thread anymore

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!