Declaration Of Khalistan

[naam_jap]

:doh:

[buddasingh]

wjkk

wjkf

        i have asked this question several times on diffrent forums but no answer is given to me.do we have the majority to form khalistan.the answer is no

the ratio in punjab is 60% sikhs and 40% hindus.from that 60 % how many are nirankaris

,radhaswamis ,namdharis we don't know.moreover many sikhs have hindu mentality worshipping devi devtas.how we are going to rule khalistan like saddam

hussien.if khalistan is created the same politician will come in power again after

10 years of its creation.main point is we don't have the majority to form khalistan

true sikhs are few

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With respect, listen very carefully to your real fears as the above can't be your reasoning as it is irrational.

You are saying that because there is not a majority for something, it should not be supported or advocated for? So we can take everything that there is a majority for at this arbitrary time and it should be the way things always remain? THere is no need ever for elections, no need for advocacy, for change etc. where there is democracy currently. In essence there is no need for future democracy where there is democracy ...??

Was Guru Nanak Dev Ji a majority? Was Guru Arjan Dev Ji a majority?

Forming Khalistan is not a matter of snapping fingers to see if there is a majority. The first step to forming Khalistan is ditching our slave mentality. Most of us adopt the notions and realities that we are born into as if those realities are timeless. Our lives are specks in history. Learn to think outside of the time-tunnel and ask what sikhs who made sacrifices before the word 'India' existed would say about sikhs supporting actively or passively a state where the soil to nurture sikhi is dust and sikhi is a historical relic.

The question is not one of whether Khalistan is valid, but whether current India is valid? There are many different cultures and groups in India, if they cannot be respected by the state, whether it is for logisitical reasons or otherwise then the state should not have authority over them.

[Bijla Singh]

have asked this question several times on diffrent forums but no answer is given to me.do we have the majority to form khalistan.the answer is no

the ratio in punjab is 60% sikhs and 40% hindus.from that 60 % how many are nirankaris

,radhaswamis ,namdharis we don't know.moreover many sikhs have hindu mentality worshipping devi devtas.

Does a country depend on majority? When Israel was formed there were only few thousand Jews, a minority. Couple thousand Muslims ruled majority of hindu population for over 700 years. Sikh rule of Baba Banda Singh and Maharaja Ranjit Singh had Sikhs as a minority. A Country's success is independent of which community is the majority or minority.

how we are going to rule khalistan like saddam

hussien.

Do you really think Sikhs are like Muslim dictators? In fact, indian government is worse than saddam. just look at indian constitution and see how much power the prime minister has during the rule of emergency and not to mention 1980 National Security Act. So you need to study a little bit before making up lousy assumptions. Give me facts not assumptions.

if khalistan is created the same politician will come in power again after

10 years of its creation.

Not true. If Sikhs can fight and die for Khalistan why won't they be able to make sure that no corrupt leader is able to gain power? Have you never heard of elections? One has to be a Sikh (Amritdhari) and must have at least PhD in Law and Business and couple years of experience before he/she can run for presidency. Sikhs will overthrow the indian government along with corrupt so called 'sikh' leaders. Are you so naive to think that Sikhs will forgive people like badal and appoint him the first leader of their country? 1947 mistake will not be repeated again. When USA was fighting for independence did they ever say "british officers might take over the country so let's forget about fighting." try to think once in a while. assumptions only weaken your case.

main point is we don't have the majority to form khalistan true sikhs are few

main point: you don't have a clue about the true power of Sikhs and their capabilities to run Khalistan. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[buddasingh]

Oki Doki... here is my worthless 2 cents:

Khalistan is not a place, but a state of mind.

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Not worthless at all, in fact true, but not the whole story.

Our own guruji's laid the foundations for or created Sri Darbar Sahib, Akal Takht and Panj Piare. These are places and organizations with governments. We would not dare escape into a state of mind and say these are irrelevant.

We believe in the temporal and spiritual. We are not passive participants in the world. We don't hesitate to vote in elections in our respective countys, countrys etc.. We don't hesitate to take positions on matters in our community or city. What is the mental block or brainwashing where Khalistan is taboo?

As sikhs we do not only participate, As sikhs we have our own constitution. For example if the choices of voting in our society were between two racist governments, we would advocate for a new third one, we would not placate ourselves by saying that equality is a state of mind.

We are active, we are mandated to think beyond what is put before our eyes. We make a point of excelling and helping others of whatever background excel spiritually, physically and mentally. We don't shy away from the truth if the masses call it a lie. What others deem unpopular, we potentially embrace. Think beyond your comfortable chains sikh brothers and sisters!

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

respect to buddha singha nd bijla singh!

[JSingh]

pariou kaal sabhai jag oopar maahi likhae bhram giaanee ||

Death has fallen on the whole world; the doubting religious scholars are also listed on the Register of Death.

kahu kabeer jan bheae khaalasae praem bhagath jih jaanee ||4||3||

Says Kabeer, those humble people become pure - they become Khalsa - who know the Lord's loving devotional worship. ||4||3||

(SGGS 654)

pUrn joq jgY Gt mY qb Kwls qwih nKwls jwnY ]

pooran joth jagai ghatt mai thab khaalas thaahi nakhaalas jaanai ||

Such a man, in whose heart shines the full Divinely Radiant Light is a true a pure Khalsa.

jwigq joiq jpY ins bwsur eyk ibnw mn nYk n AwnY ]

jaagith joth japai nis baasur eaek binaa man naik n aanai ||

He the Khalsa meditates on the Ever-radiant Light, day and night, and rejects all else but the one Lord from the mind.

pUrn pRym pRqIq sjY bRq gor mVHI mt BUl n mwnY ]

pooran praem pratheeth sajai brath gor marrhee matt bhool n maanai ||

He decorates himself with perfect love and faith, and believed not in fasts, tombs, crematoriums and hermit cells, even by mistake.

qIrQ dwn dXw qp sMjm eyk ibnw nih eyk pCwnY ]

theerathh dhaan dhayaa thap sa(n)jam eaek binaa nehi eaek pashhaanai ||

He knows none except the one Lord in the performance of acts of pilgrimage, charities, compassion, austerities and self-control.

(Guru Gobind Singh Ji)

[Bijla Singh]

I didn't understand the purpose of your post JSingh but explain what is the relevance of the Shabads to the topic? In what context are you using Gurbani? If you want to discuss how Gurbani supports Khalistan the let me know. Guru Rakha.

[JSingh]

I didn't understand the purpose of your post JSingh but explain what is the relevance of the Shabads to the topic? In what context are you using Gurbani? If you want to discuss how Gurbani supports Khalistan the let me know. Guru Rakha.

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Bijla Singh Ji, I do not want to create more confusion or conflict of opinions. I have read all the posts and understand everybody's views where they are coming from and I respect them all, both pro and anti. I do not worry about my views because they keep chaning day by day and moment by moment on issues and therefore, I do not want to force my opinions on anyone, all I can do is just express them to the best of my ability.

The most important thing I want to express is that we Sikhs are not united. We don't even have common Rehat Maryada. If someone says, believe in the one by Akal Takhat Sahib, but how may of us believe in it? Different jathas and deras have their own maryada and we believe in the one from where we received Khanday Batey di Pahul. This is just one example.

I'm not trying to offend anyone, but we should all take some time and think deep inside and see what we notice. If Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji can give Raaj to Bahadur Shah, a Moghul Emperor, why can't he give to his Sikhs. Isn't it true that we do not deserve that Raaj yet, at this particular moment becuase we are not capable for this daat at this time.

There are soooooooooo many controversies we are we facing today, like Raag Mala, Meat, Bhai Bala, Amrit, Nitnem Banis, Dasam Granth, to name a few. And inconsistency and wrong information in our Rehatnamas, Janam Sakhis, Suraj Prakash, Gurbilas Patshahi Chhevi, etc. etc.

In order to establish a Khalsa Raaj, we need to solve all these issues. We don't even have one version of our history. koi kise paasey tureya firda, koi kise paase. What one group of peolpe believes, others can openly refuse to accept it, both are Gursikhs, due to wrong information written in our historial records we have found. This is one of the major problems we are facing today and it had created soooooooo many divisions among Sikhs. It destroyed our unity.

We need to take care of the first thing first, then go for the second, and finally we will get to the last one. But we want to get to the last one quickly, here and now, because thats all we see. We need to improve ourselves first, we need to understand the true meaing of Khalsa. We should first find out if we truely deserve the Khalsa Raaj. No matter how many sacrifices we make, we will never get Khalsa Raaj if our Guru is not happy with us.

Right thing takes place only at a right time and it will definitely take place, but sometimes we are sooo eager and want it on our place right here and now. Sant Attar Singh Ji Mastuaney Wale tells us in the book about his life written by Sant Teja Singh that how and why Moghuls got the Raaj. Before they got Raaj, they were used to do alotttttttttttttt of 'Ibadaat' (bhagti) and therefore, God gave them Raaj. But later on, they started giving humanity hard time, killing them and coverting them by force and lot of more immoral things that all Sikhs are aware of. Then they lost their Raaj. Then Sant Ji said that from Simran point of view, Sikhs are very weak, they are way tooooooooooooooo behind, they don't do as much Simran as they are supposed to. (I don't have the book with me right now to give the reference).

Do we really have those qualities of a Khalsa that Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji wanted? I am no where close to it. I request all of my brothers and sisters to please look inside and see if we deserve to be called Khalsa, and let Guru Sahib decide when we need Khalsa Raaj. We need to complete our task:

Awpu svwrih mY imlih mY imilAw suKu hoie ]

aap savaarehi mai milehi mai miliaa sukh hoe ||

God says, ""If you reform yourself, you shall meet me, and meeting me, you shall be at peace.

PrIdw jy qU myrw hoie rhih sBu jgu qyrw hoie ]95]

fareedhaa jae thoo maeraa hoe rehehi sabh jag thaeraa hoe ||95||

O Fareed, if you will be mine, the whole world will be yours.""||95||

and Let Guru Sahib take care of his own.

Please forgive me if I have offened someone. I'm not trying to argue with anyone, just expressed my views and they may be entirely wrong.

[SSM]

Actually its not funny, but JSingh has so got a point we are so confused, well not individually but together certainly a lot of uncertainties.

eg.my dad was getting close to sikhi (he a mona btw) and when he tried to read up on sikhi:

sant or not the sant

raagmala or not

3 banis or 5 banis

Dasam Granth Sahib Ji

and lots lots more.

He just threw the towel down and said he would come to sikhi when he knew what to follow because he dont understand Guru Ji so needs to be taught by sikhs and sikhs dont know:BL: I was left lost.

Maybe we could start by getting one Rehit Maryada...oh its shocking.

But still in support of Khalistan.

[Bijla Singh]

JSingh, I do not disagree with you that we need to have eakta and we need to become Khalsa first but explain to me one thing: At what point can one claim himself to be a Khalsa, Guru Roop? Gursikhs like Baba Deep Singh Ji always did Ardaas for blessings of Sikhi. So I cannot just say okay now I am a Khalsa so let's fight for khalistan. Bhagti and Shakti go together.

DMn jIE iqh ko jg mih muK qy hir icq mY ju`D ibcwrY ]

In other words person who has Waheguru's name on his lips and thought of doing Yudh in his mind is truly blessed. Yudh can also mean fighting five thieves but here Guru Ji means yudh as in Dharam Yudh i.e fighting for Dharma. Guru Ji said:

Avr vwsnw nwih pRBu Drm Xu`D ky cwie ]

So I don't see the point of sitting in a bhora doing bhagtee while the panth is being attacked from all ten directions. Doing both is the way to go because it is what Sikhi teaches us. Sikhs in 18th century used to recite Dasam Bani while they were fighting. They always spent much time in simran whether they were in battle field or just cleaning shastars. Dharam Yudh is only successful when we seek guidance from Gurbani. I don't see why we have to stop talking about Khalistan if we are weak in Simran. Speaking truth and fighting injustice is also part of Sikhi. Gurbani and Sikhi come first as you said and I agree but at the same time we shouldn't turn away from our rights.

I'm not trying to offend anyone, but we should all take some time and think deep inside and see what we notice. If Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji can give Raaj to Bahadur Shah, a Moghul Emperor, why can't he give to his Sikhs. Isn't it true that we do not deserve that Raaj yet, at this particular moment becuase we are not capable for this daat at this time.

So when will we be capable of deserving Raaj? When we do simran and seva? Then what was wrong with Bhai Fauja Singh, Sant Jarnail Singh and many other gursikhs? They were more gursikhs than any of us. It is not all about when we deserve it, it is about when we want to break the chains of slavery and become true Sikhs. Guru Ji has given us the Raaj but we are too stupid to break the chains of slavery and present our heads at the feet of the Guru which is why we cannot get it.

In order to establish a Khalsa Raaj, we need to solve all these issues. We don't even have one version of our history. koi kise paasey tureya firda, koi kise paase. What one group of peolpe believes, others can openly refuse to accept it, both are Gursikhs, due to wrong information written in our historial records we have found. This is one of the major problems we are facing today and it had created soooooooo many divisions among Sikhs. It destroyed our unity.

I agree we have issues but why all issues have to be solved before we create Khalistan? Can you give me a name of a single country that has no issues? Shia and Sunni have huge issues but they live with each other in peace and harmony in Kuwait, UAE and some other countries. All US States have issues with each other. issues like gays, abortion and ban on drugs and guns have divided people. anti-abortion people have blasted community hospitals in this country. texas refuses to share its power grid with other states. So you see a country can survive even with issues. 12 misls had issues but they survived. Unity is important, no doubt but a country will not fall apart just because there are some issues. Why not unite physically and win our country then we can sit together and solve our religious issues. If we try to solve 'em now RSS and GOI will try its best to stop it and we all know how inside agents will react plus Akal Takhat is not free so to expect a final decision will be foolish on our part.

We should first find out if we truely deserve the Khalsa Raaj. No matter how many sacrifices we make, we will never get Khalsa Raaj if our Guru is not happy with us.

If Guru Ji is not happy with you then you will not become a Shaheed. Gursikhs who became shaheeds did simran for 21 hours a day. Shaheedis of Bhai Anokh Singh, Bhai Suklakhan Singh and Bhai Gurdev Singh are no less than sacrifices of 18th century. They deserved Raaj more than us. We need to improve ourselves but doesn't mean we have to stop standing on truth and ignore our freedom. We can do both.

Do we really have those qualities of a Khalsa that Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji wanted? I am no where close to it. I request all of my brothers and sisters to please look inside and see if we deserve to be called Khalsa, and let Guru Sahib decide when we need Khalsa Raaj.

I have no qualities of a Khalsa but Khalistan is not for me but for the Panth. In my opinion we needed Raaj even in the times of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Let me tell you a true story. Guru Gobind Singh Ji once said that His Khalsa will blow up fort of Sarhind and throw every brick in the river. Baba Banda Singh Ji did not blow it up, instead he used it for protection. But later on during Nawab Kapoor Singh Ji, Sikhs got together and discussed the words of Guru Ji. They reached the decision that if they won't do it then who will? So they attacked Sarhind and blew up the fort then every brick was thrown in the river. Sikhs did it but Guru Ji helped. My point is Guru Ji will help us only when we want to fight for the right cause. If we never fight then Guru Ji will never come do it for us. He does everything through His Sikhs.

Arguing is fighting but discussing is not. I discussed these things with you. You are not forcing your opinions on anyone. There is nothing wrong with sharing your thoughts and discussing everything in Sikhi manner. I hope I didn't offend you. If I misunderstood your points please correct me. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh