The Colour Blue Yes Or No

[jss]

khalsa girl..you seem like a dedicated gursikh...

but some of your comments are pretty childish and irresponsible...

everything amritpal has written on his site is well researched

you on the other hand have provided no research for your claims...only to say that "this is what gursikhs have said"...that's not called research...

and for you to turn around and say others make things up..that's just really stupid....

[proud_to_be_singhni]

in agreement with heera pajee, and i myself have always believed that what colour a gursikh chooses to wear has nothing to do with anybody...guru ji is not looking at colours. Guru ji cares that when you walk into darbar sahib, any darbar shaib ur wearing responsible clothing, that doesnt distarct sangats attention thas all...colours thas just ur choice.

chardikala, deep kaur x

[H4RPAL]

i'm confused.. on the website it said the mogul colour was blue... so why does everybody say the mogul colours are maroon n green?

134317[/snapback]

if any of you havent noticed, people make up their own things..... :lol:

134360[/snapback]

People certainly do, but then some other people cite from historical texts in an unbiased manner, simply stating what is said within them to make such information accessible for those who cannot otherwise get access to it. These people are not to be confused with those who quote selectively from such texts to further their own agendas.

Read Amritpal Singh Ji's articles and decide for yourself which category he fits into.

[cantlogin]

fateh ji

it wasnt a namdhari who sed that to me it was an amritdhari singh with all white clothes he said guru gobind singh told sikh to wear white and not blue is there any line in bani which tell you about colours?

Never judge a person by how they look. What makes you think God will judge you otherwise? Its your qualities and traits as a person that matter.

Please make use your own brain and not others.

[Heera Singh]

fateh ji

it wasnt a namdhari who sed that to me it was an amritdhari singh with all white clothes he said guru gobind singh told sikh to wear white and not blue is there any line in bani which tell you about colours?

134270[/snapback]

read amritpal sings website..

[Singh132]

taken from http://www.tapoban.org/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=61042&t=61042

Blue *IS* A Khalsa Colour

I applaud Amritpal Singh Amrit for his analysis of Snatani practices. But as they say, we shouldn’t, "throw the baby out with the bath-water". I was concerned to see him try to dismiss Blue as a Khalsa colour.

Blue has traditionally been worn by the Khalsa along with orange and white. Black is also acceptable but became popular later on.

I will try to give a preliminary reply to his article here

Muslims & Blue

I and some other Singhs were discussing Amrit’s article on blue clothes and one Singh asked why “neel bastar” were described as being Muslim colours and why the Khalsa now wears neela.

Muslims are not discerned by blue clothes now. In the past Muslim dress has always been thought to have been green (haideri) and Muslim Ghazis are known to wear Green clothing. Why does Gurbani say blue?

A Singh from Kashmir (Poonch) was sitting with us and he said that where he is from, the locals call green “neela”. They call green chilis not “haree mirch” but “neelee mirch” they call green grass “neela ghaa”.

This explains it. For people of that area (mainly Muslims), neela meant not blue, but green.

What Did Guru Gobind Singh Wear?

There has been an attempt to say that Guru Gobind Singh jee only wore blue when leaving the forest in Macchiwara.

The oldest account of Guru Gobind Singh jee and the formation of the Khalsa is the Bhatt Vehis. What do the Bhatt Vehis say about what Guru Sahib wore when the Khalsa was created?

The Bhatt Vehi "Multani Sindhi Pargana Thanaysar" is described by Piara Singh Padam as the oldest account of this event :

>>>>>>>>>>>

"Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, tenth Guru, son of Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji, in the year 1752 on Tuesday-the Vaisakhi day-gave Khande ki pahul to five Sikhs and surnamed them as Singhs. First Daya Ram Sopti, Khatri resident of Lahore stood up. Then Mohkam Chand Calico printer of Dawarka; Sahib Chand barber of Zafrabad city; Dharam Chand Jawanda Jat of Hastinapur; Himmat Chand water carrier of Jagannath stop up one after the other. All were dressed in blue and he himself also dressed the same way. Hookah, halaal, hajaamat, haraam, tikka, janeu, dhoti were prohibited. Socialisation with the descendants of Prithi Chand, followers of Dhirmal and Ram Rai, clean shaven people and Masands was prohibited. All were given Kangha, Karad, Kesgee, Karhaa, and Kacheraa. All were made Keshdhaaree. Everyone’s place of birth was told to be Patna, of residence as Anandpur. Rest, Guru’s deeds are known only to the Guru. Repeat Guru Guru, the Guru will help everywhere

>>>>>>>>>>

So blue was the colour the Khalsa was first given according to the oldest source.

Amritpal Singh has said:

>>>>>>>>

Furthermore, when Guru Gobind Singh Ji left for his heavenly abode, he was also in saffron ('Kesree') attire. 'Gur Bilaas Paatshaahee 10' written by Bhai Kuyer Singh clearly mentions the colour of Guru Ji's clothing, when he left for the 'Sachkhand': -

Aap Snaan Karyo Sah Kesan, Kesree Khyom Patam Pahraaye.

From the foregoing analysis of various texts, we can conclude that Guru Gobind Singh Ji wore clothing of various colours and that to assert that he wore only blue attire after the inauguration of the Khalsa in 1699 is wholly incorrect.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

No one denies that kesri is an acceptable colour. Punj Pyaaray today generally are all dressed in kesri robes. Kesri is considered a royal colour. The fact that Guru Gobind Singh jee was wearing kesri only says that kesri is an acceptable colour for the Sikhs as well, not that blue is not special or unacceptable (as the article seems to suggest).

What would surprise me would be if Amritpal Singh could show me any reference to Dashmesh Pita jee wearing something besides Blue, White, Kesri or Black. That would be a find.

Clearly, Blue was a special and acceptable colour of the Khalsa. Guru Gobind Singh jee being royalty, wore kesri as well (as our royal Punj Pyaaray still do today). This is not a surprise, but to be expected.

Puraatan Sikhs and Colours

Amritpal Singh has provided the quotation about the dress of the sahibzadas:

>>>>>>>

the Sahibzadas were in fact in saffron (Kesaree) clothing: -

Kesaree Ang Paushaak Mahaabar, Moorat Pekh Kahai Eh Baanee.

>>>>>>>

As I said before, Kesree is the royal colour for the Sikhs. It is no shock that the princely Sahibzadas would have worn this colour.

What I do take issue with is Amrit’s next statement:

>>>>>>>>>>

Bhai Sukha Singh speaks of Sahibzada Ajit Singh Ji, the eldest son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji being called into the holy court of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. He comes to Guru Ji and Bhai Sukha Singh describes his attire as consisting of red ('Arun') shoes which were shining on Sahibzada Ajit Singh Ji's feet, a red shawl, a red shirt and a red turban which graceful upon his head. The original lines read as follows: -

>>>>>>>>>

The colour red has been forbidden amongst the Sikhs since the start. It is not an acceptable colour for Sikhs to wear.

Bhai Daya Singh rehitnama tells us that those “who use colour prepared from red ochre or the kusumbha flower” are tankhaiyas. It says plainly, “Bastr kusunbhay na pehray” or “Do not wear clothing which is coloured red. ”(verse 23).

Bhai Prehlad Singh rehitnama also tells us, “soohay anbar pehn kar jo naasay nasvar…” “He who wears red clothing, or inhales nasavar up his nose will be beaten about the head and thrown into hell” (verse 12).

So how is it that this description of Baba Ajeet Singh jee came about?

It must be asked, Who was Sukha Singh? The fact is that he NEVER SAW Sahibzada Baba Ajeet Singh jee. On what basis is he giving such a detailed description besides his own imagination? Sukha Singh was born in 1768 and wrote this in 1797. After a hundred years, how would he know what Baba jee was wearing? This is clearly his own literary imagination at work, not a statement of fact.

Amrit has also given a description of Baba Gurbaksh Singh and the Singhs with him who became Shaheeds. He quotes Pracheen Panth Prakash as following:

>>>>>>>>>

Giani Gian Singh writes in 'Panth Prakash' that Bhai Gurbaksh Singh wore saffron clothing, when he went to fight: -

Tan Dhare Bastar Kesree, Dastaar Ooch Sajaaye.

(He wore saffron robes and tied a high turban).

In 'Pracheen Panth Parkash', Ratan Singh Bhangu speaks of the colours worn by other Sikh companions of Bhai Gurbaksh Singh Ji:

Kisai Pushaak Thee Neelee Sajaayee.

Kinai Set, Kisai Kesaree Rangvaayee.

>>>>>>>>>

This is no big finding. It goes with what has always been known. White, Orange and Blue are all Khalsa colours. It doesn’t say here that they wore green or red. Only Orange, Blue and White. This is in complete accordance with Khalsa Tradition.

What I do find interesting that Bhai Amrit has not taken note of is that Baba Gurbaksh Singh jee is said to have an "ooch" dastaar. Perhaps in those days these type of dastaars weren't called dumallas, but by any name, it is the same thing. Baba jee's dumalla had different chakars and a kirpan in it (according to Panth Parkash). Clearly, even if it wasn't called a dumalla, it was indeed a dumalla. This is in contrast to Bhai Amrit's assertion that dumalla did not exist in those days.

I’m not much moved by the descriptions of Singhs in only kacherras and blankets. Singhs in those times had very little. Depending on the condition of the weather and their own economic condition, it is possible they wore very little. But that does not go to say that Sikh dress is no dress at all. Clearly this dress was functional for the circumstances. Even today some bana-wearing Singhs will wear only a fatoohee (short kurta) when they are training for gatka or some other circumstance, but that doesn’t mean this alone in isolation is the dress.

Clearly when the went to Guru Sahib's darbar they were not dressed in just a kacherra.

Proof of Special Nature of Blue Dress

Blue dress is not something recently invented for the Khalsa. As mentioned before, Bhatt VEhis tell us that Guru Sahib himself dressed the Khalsa in Blue.

Furthermore, the vaar “Vah Vah Gobind Singh Aapay Gur Chela” we all sing, tells us about the creation of the Khalsa as well.

inj pMQ clwieE Kwlsw Dir qyj krwrw]

isr kys Dwir gih KVg ko sB dust pCwrw]

sIl jq kI kC phir pkVo hiQAwrw]

sc Pqy bulweI gurU kI jIiqE rx Bwrw]

sB dYq Airin ko Gyr kir kIcY pRhwrw]

qb sihjy pRgitE jgq mY guru jwp Apwrw]

ieauN aupjy isMG BujMgIey nIl AMbr Dwrw]

See the last line. It says that “thus the Bhujangi Singhs were created, dressed in blue”.

The puritan Rehitnamas also tell us that Blue is a Khalsa colour. Bhai Daya Singh’s rehtinama tells us that a Khalsa colour is “surmaiee” or dark blue (verse 23). He goes on further to say , “So Akali rooop hai neel bastar dherai” or “An Akali is known by the blue garments he wears”. Clearly blue clothing was a special Khalsa colour!

Rattan Singh Bhangu in Pracheen Panth Parkash writes about the differences that lead to the split between Baba Banda Singh and the Tat-Khalsa. In regards to the clothing issue, he writes that Baba Banda Singh wanted his soldiers to wear red, which was unacceptable to the traditionally blue wearing Khalsa:

“nIl pihrn qy dUr krwXo] smrw sUhw sIs bMDwXo]

meaning, “he tried to wean them away from blue. He made them tie red on their heads” The Khalsa would not give up blue and could not wear red, so a split occurred. This also flies against Amrit's assertion that the Tat-Khalsa only took on blue after the split. They clearly were wearing blue before.

Thus you can see that the Khalsa did indeed wear blue clothing and considered it their “special” colour, not just one colour amongst many others.

Blue is a traditional Khalsa colour and we should feel proud to wear it. Blue isn't the only acceptable colour. Orange, White and Black are fine as well. But I do think that Blue was perhaps the one most Khalsa preferred. Just because some Nihang Singhs do corrupt practices like Bhang does not mean we should dismiss everything about them. They do have many traditions preserved like bana, sarbloh, gatka, etc. These should be appreciated.

I have not written this to be a comprehensive article in support of blue. That would require a lot more research and that is something I don’t have much time for at the moment, but I did want to give an answer to the article on blue clothing.

.

[H4RPAL]

taken from http://www.tapoban.org/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=61042&t=61042

Blue *IS* A Khalsa Colour

I applaud Amritpal Singh Amrit for his analysis of Snatani practices. But as they say, we shouldn’t,  "throw the baby out with the bath-water". I was concerned to see him try to dismiss Blue as a Khalsa colour.

Blue has traditionally been worn by the Khalsa along with orange and white. Black is also acceptable but became popular later on.

I will try to give a preliminary reply to his article here

Muslims & Blue

I and some other Singhs were discussing Amrit’s article on blue clothes and one Singh asked why “neel bastar” were described as being Muslim colours and why the Khalsa now wears neela.

Muslims are not discerned by blue clothes now. In the past Muslim dress has always been thought to have been green (haideri) and Muslim Ghazis are known to wear Green clothing. Why does Gurbani say blue?

A Singh from Kashmir (Poonch) was sitting with us and he said that where he is from, the locals call green “neela”. They call green chilis not “haree mirch” but “neelee mirch” they call green grass “neela ghaa”.

This explains it. For people of that area (mainly Muslims), neela meant not blue, but green.

What Did Guru Gobind Singh Wear?

There has been an attempt to say that Guru Gobind Singh jee only wore blue when leaving the forest in Macchiwara.

The oldest account of Guru Gobind Singh jee and the formation of the Khalsa is the Bhatt Vehis. What do the Bhatt Vehis say about what Guru Sahib wore when the Khalsa was created?

The Bhatt Vehi "Multani Sindhi Pargana Thanaysar" is described by Piara Singh Padam as the oldest account of this event :

>>>>>>>>>>>

"Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, tenth Guru, son of Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji, in the year 1752 on Tuesday-the Vaisakhi day-gave Khande ki pahul to five Sikhs and surnamed them as Singhs. First Daya Ram Sopti, Khatri resident of Lahore stood up. Then Mohkam Chand Calico printer of Dawarka; Sahib Chand barber of Zafrabad city; Dharam Chand Jawanda Jat of Hastinapur; Himmat Chand water carrier of Jagannath stop up one after the other. All were dressed in blue and he himself also dressed the same way. Hookah, halaal, hajaamat, haraam, tikka, janeu, dhoti were prohibited. Socialisation with the descendants of Prithi Chand, followers of Dhirmal and Ram Rai, clean shaven people and Masands was prohibited. All were given Kangha, Karad, Kesgee, Karhaa, and Kacheraa. All were made Keshdhaaree. Everyone’s place of birth was told to be Patna, of residence as Anandpur. Rest, Guru’s deeds are known only to the Guru. Repeat Guru Guru, the Guru will help everywhere

>>>>>>>>>>

So blue was the colour the Khalsa was first given according to the oldest source.

Amritpal Singh has said:

>>>>>>>>

Furthermore, when Guru Gobind Singh Ji left for his heavenly abode, he was also in saffron ('Kesree') attire. 'Gur Bilaas Paatshaahee 10' written by Bhai Kuyer Singh clearly mentions the colour of Guru Ji's clothing, when he left for the 'Sachkhand': -

Aap Snaan Karyo Sah Kesan, Kesree Khyom Patam Pahraaye.

From the foregoing analysis of various texts, we can conclude that Guru Gobind Singh Ji wore clothing of various colours and that to assert that he wore only blue attire after the inauguration of the Khalsa in 1699 is wholly incorrect.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

No one denies that kesri is an acceptable colour. Punj Pyaaray today generally are all dressed in kesri robes. Kesri is considered a royal colour. The fact that Guru Gobind Singh jee was wearing kesri only says that kesri is an acceptable colour for the Sikhs as well, not that blue is not special or unacceptable (as the article seems to suggest).

What would surprise me would be if Amritpal Singh could show me any reference to Dashmesh Pita jee wearing something besides Blue, White, Kesri or Black. That would be a find.

Clearly, Blue was a special and acceptable colour of the Khalsa. Guru Gobind Singh jee being royalty, wore kesri as well (as our royal Punj Pyaaray still do today). This is not a surprise, but to be expected.

Puraatan Sikhs and Colours

Amritpal Singh has provided the quotation about the dress of the sahibzadas:

>>>>>>>

the Sahibzadas were in fact in saffron (Kesaree) clothing: -

Kesaree Ang Paushaak Mahaabar, Moorat Pekh Kahai Eh Baanee.

>>>>>>>

As I said before, Kesree is the royal colour for the Sikhs. It is no shock that the princely Sahibzadas would have worn this colour.

What I do take issue with is Amrit’s next statement:

>>>>>>>>>>

Bhai Sukha Singh speaks of Sahibzada Ajit Singh Ji, the eldest son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji being called into the holy court of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. He comes to Guru Ji and Bhai Sukha Singh describes his attire as consisting of red ('Arun') shoes which were shining on Sahibzada Ajit Singh Ji's feet, a red shawl, a red shirt and a red turban which graceful upon his head. The original lines read as follows: -

>>>>>>>>>

The colour red has been forbidden amongst the Sikhs since the start. It is not an acceptable colour for Sikhs to wear.

Bhai Daya Singh rehitnama tells us that those “who use colour prepared from red ochre or the kusumbha flower” are tankhaiyas. It says plainly, “Bastr kusunbhay na pehray” or “Do not wear clothing which is coloured red. ”(verse 23).

Bhai Prehlad Singh rehitnama also tells us, “soohay anbar pehn kar jo naasay nasvar…” “He who wears red clothing, or inhales nasavar up his nose will be beaten about the head and thrown into hell” (verse 12).

So how is it that this description of Baba Ajeet Singh jee came about?

It must be asked, Who was Sukha Singh? The fact is that he NEVER SAW Sahibzada Baba Ajeet Singh jee. On what basis is he giving such a detailed description besides his own imagination? Sukha Singh was born in 1768 and wrote this in 1797. After a hundred years, how would he know what Baba jee was wearing? This is clearly his own literary imagination at work, not a statement of fact.

Amrit has also given a description of Baba Gurbaksh Singh and the Singhs with him who became Shaheeds. He quotes Pracheen Panth Prakash as following:

>>>>>>>>>

Giani Gian Singh writes in 'Panth Prakash' that Bhai Gurbaksh Singh wore saffron clothing, when he went to fight: -

Tan Dhare Bastar Kesree, Dastaar Ooch Sajaaye.

(He wore saffron robes and tied a high turban).

In 'Pracheen Panth Parkash', Ratan Singh Bhangu speaks of the colours worn by other Sikh companions of Bhai Gurbaksh Singh Ji:

Kisai Pushaak Thee Neelee Sajaayee.

Kinai Set, Kisai Kesaree Rangvaayee.

>>>>>>>>>

This is no big finding. It goes with what has always been known. White, Orange and Blue are all Khalsa colours. It doesn’t say here that they wore green or red. Only Orange, Blue and White. This is in complete accordance with Khalsa Tradition.

I’m not much moved by the descriptions of Singhs in only kacherras and blankets. Singhs in those times had very little. Depending on the condition of the weather and their own economic condition, it is possible they wore very little. But that does not go to say that Sikh dress is no dress at all. Clearly this dress was functional for the circumstances. Even today some bana-wearing Singhs will wear only a fatoohee (short kurta) when they are training for gatka or some other circumstance, but that doesn’t mean this alone in isolation is the dress.

Clearly when the went to Guru Sahib's darbar they were not dressed in just a kacherra.

Proof of Special Nature of Blue Dress

Blue dress is not something recently invented for the Khalsa. As mentioned before, Bhatt VEhis tell us that Guru Sahib himself dressed the Khalsa in Blue.

Furthermore, the vaar “Vah Vah Gobind Singh Aapay Gur Chela” we all sing, tells us about the creation of the Khalsa as well.

inj pMQ clwieE Kwlsw Dir qyj krwrw]

isr kys Dwir gih KVg ko sB dust pCwrw]

sIl jq kI kC phir pkVo hiQAwrw]

sc Pqy bulweI gurU kI jIiqE rx Bwrw]

sB dYq Airin ko Gyr kir kIcY pRhwrw]

qb sihjy pRgitE jgq mY guru jwp Apwrw]

ieauN aupjy isMG BujMgIey nIl AMbr Dwrw]

See the last line. It says that “thus the Bhujangi Singhs were created, dressed in blue”.

The puritan Rehitnamas also tell us that Blue is a Khalsa colour. Bhai Daya Singh’s rehtinama tells us that a Khalsa colour is “surmaiee” or dark blue (verse 23). He goes on further to say , “So Akali rooop hai neel bastar dherai” or “An Akali is known by the blue garments he wears”. Clearly blue clothing was a special Khalsa colour!

Rattan Singh Bhangu in Pracheen Panth Parkash writes about the differences that lead to the split between Baba Banda Singh and the Tat-Khalsa. In regards to the clothing issue, he writes that Baba Banda Singh wanted his soldiers to wear red, which was unacceptable to the traditionally blue wearing Khalsa:

“nIl pihrn qy dUr krwXo] smrw sUhw sIs bMDwXo]

meaning, “he tried to wean them away from blue. He made them tie red on their heads” The Khalsa would not give up blue and could not wear red, so a split occurred. This also flies against Amrit's assertion that the Tat-Khalsa only took on blue after the split. They clearly were wearing blue before.

Thus you can see that the Khalsa did indeed wear blue clothing and considered it their “special” colour, not just one colour amongst many others.

Blue is a traditional Khalsa colour and we should feel proud to wear it. Blue isn't the only acceptable colour. Orange, White and Black are fine as well. But I do think that Blue was perhaps the one most Khalsa preferred. Just because some Nihang Singhs do corrupt practices like Bhang does not mean we should dismiss everything about them. They do have many traditions preserved like bana, sarbloh, gatka, etc. These should be appreciated.

I have not written this to be a comprehensive article in support of blue. That would require a lot more research and that is something I don’t have much time for at the moment, but I did want to give an answer to the article on blue clothing.

.

134416[/snapback]

http://www.amritworld.com/sanatani/proposed.html

In the proposed topics section, Amritpal Singh had listed "Guru Gobind Singh Ji in blue dress" and "Guru Ji's army and blue dress" as categories. This suggests he has more to say regarding the colour blue.

[Singh132]

From what I read on http://www.amritworld.com/nihangs/index.html,

He already has written about Guru Gobind Singh and blue dress. I believe I've addressed his point.

[Khalsa_Girl_1]

khalsa girl..you seem like a dedicated gursikh...

but some of your comments are pretty childish and irresponsible...

everything amritpal has written on his site is well researched

you on the other hand have provided no research for your claims...only to say that "this is what gursikhs have said"...that's not called research...

and for you to turn around and say others make things up..that's just really stupid....

134371[/snapback]

thank-you jss :lol: :umm:

what more can i say? :umm:

[simmal tree]

vaaheguroojeekaakhaalsaa

vaaheguroojeekeefatheh !!!!!!!

singh132 has provided good arguments to show that amritpal singh's conclusion is incorrect and the colour blue does have a significance and an importance in sikh history.

this is the strangest thread not because the first person to post the question asked about a colour, but because the colour was blue. honestly most gursikhs would be surprised if you doubt the colour blue as a sikhi colour. not because they've been trained to think that way, but because it is a part of our traditions from the last, at least, 350 years.

i know a lot of you "open minded" people hate it when people define things like colours, and sarbloh, and wearing bana, because it should be in the "heart"

but at the same time sikhi is a lifestyle, not just a hobby.

sometimes we think that guru granth sahib ji is a code book or rule book, from which we derive defined rules and guidelines.

guru sahib is our full puran satguru, the light of God.

yes, there are many rules and guidelines from guru sahib, in guru granth sahib ji, sri dasam granth sahib, vaars of bhai gurdas and bhai nand lal, and rehitnamas

but more importantly, all of this teaches us how to think and how to live

what i mean to say is, there might not be an explicit answer for "what to do when XYZ happens... or how to deal with XYZ situation"

but guru sahib will train us how to think so that the answer comes from within

and this training is not just "read gurbani once" and we're ready

this is a NIT-NEM, continuous practice. in fact it is practiced by uchee-avastha gursikhs every second.

every second they think "vaheguru" and they reduce their ego and increase their unity with gurmat.

their thinking becomes one with gurmat and the answers come from them inside

gurmat is a way of thinking. it is not just a "that's right, that's wrong"

gurmat builds "bhaavnaa" or your paradigm, your way of looking at the world

if we look at things from gurmat, then we see a lot of things differently, like what matters and what doesn't, and what is important and what isn't

the colour blue / or any colour will not come between you and muktee, if you are already a brahmgyani.

but this culture, this lifestyle, this way of thinking, this tradition, moulds a SIKH into a KHALSA. we develop from a student of the guru, to a property of the guru.

we develop from people who "study and interpret" gurbani, to people who "live and practice" gurbani

we shouldn't spend so much time arguing about these things - and that goes for both sides -

but at the same time we should not shoot down panthic traditions just because we, in our 15 minutes of sikhi fame, think that we have some type of avastha

if you don't know why the colour blue, or the nihang farla, or the dumalla, or bana, or sampuran rehiras sahib, or sarbloh batas, or other "strange things" in sikhi have significance or importance - please don't call them "brahministic" or "stupid" or "weird" until you know what they stand for

this is the same reason why even sardars in india make "sardar ji barah baj gaye" jokes to themselves - because they have no idea what their own history is

please forgive my mistakes

saadhsangat jee this is my benti can we please forget the arguments and move on

thank you :lol:

vaaheguroojeekaakhaalsaa

vaaheguroojeekeefatheh !!!!!!!