Re-taking Amrit

[khalsa mero roop]

9. What is Naam Drirtaa?

Naam Drirtaa is the method used to instil Naam into those who wish to receive the divine gift of Amrit during the Amrit Sanchaar. This method is not the invention of the AKJ, but has been ongoing since the first Amrit Sanchaar. Other Panthic organisations also continue to use Naam Drirtaa. The method can only be explained in detail by the Panj Pyarai during an Amrit Sanchaar, as only the Guru has the right to impart the Naam. However, generally speaking, Naam Drirta sends the Naam into ones body and enables the Sikh to begin Simran with each and every breath.

[randip singh]

Edited - Such insulting remarks against Amrit are not allowed.

144301[/snapback]

I've put my comments here.

MOD EDITED

Should have been more specific to Charan Amrit.

MOD NOTE : DO NOT POST THOSE REMARKS OR ANY LINK TO THOSE REMARKS ON THIS FORUM AGAIN. THANKS.

[Guest A Singh.]

Veer Prabhjoyt Singh Ji,

Bhai Kulbir Singh on the Tapoban message board has previously answered your question with regards to the meaning of "Saas Saas":

What to write about the mehima of Naam with Saas Giraas? Mehima of Naam with Saas Giraas is impossible to state. The Saas Giraas technique of Naam abhyaas was started by Guru Nanak Dev jee himself. There are several pankitis in Gurbani to prove this.

SAAS SAAS SIMRHO GOBIND||

MAN ANTAR KEE UTRAI CHIND||

The sihaari at the end of Saas Saas means that we should simmar (japp) the naam of Gobind through saas saas technique. Guru Sahib further states that doing naam with this technique, removes all worries from our mind.

Here is another pankiti from Gurbani:

Parbaateh kareh ishnaa, Gur pooja, bidh sahit karang||

They (Gursikhs) do ishnaan at the early hours and then do naam abhyaas (Gur pooja) with the technique (bidh sahit). Here too it is stated that only if we do naam with a technique of Guru, we can get the maximum out of naam.

Many old texts contain this reference to this technique of Naam. Bhai Mani Singh Shaheed, clearly writes in "Sikhaan dee Bhagat Maala" book, that how naam is to be recited and he writes this technique of saas giraas.

Sant Attar Singh jee used to do the updesh of this technique and also Bhai Vir Singh jee has written about it. Bhai Raghbir Singh Bir too has written about this technique.

In short, there is no doubt that this is the gurmat technique of Naam abhyaas. Unfortunately today, most amrit sinchaars don't teach the technique of Naam to the seekers. Akhand Kirtani Jatha is one of the few organizations of the world that teach this technique of Naam.

In the amrit sinchaar held at Tapoban Sahib Gurdwara, amrit sinchaar is done according to this puratan maryada of Amrit Sinchaar and Naam dee technique and Keski Kakaar is done drirh.

I have seen many non-akj gursikhs going around, begging in front of the so called sants to teach them Naam. Why do they do so, when they can learn Naam Abhyaas from Punj Pyaare?

Getting Naam from Punj Pyaare but not learning the technique from them is like buying a new car but not knowing how to drive the car. What good is that car if you can't drive it?

On the meaning of "Saas Saas":

You write that the above pankiti could mean that one should every breath on repeating Vaheguru. What else is the technique of Naam? It is the technique that involves our breath.

As I stated above, all great gursikhs like Bhai Sahib Mani Singh jee shaheed, Sant Attar Singh jee Mastuanawaale, Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee, Bhai Vir Singh jee, and Bhai Raghbir Singh jee Bir have advocated this style of naam abhyaas.

There is no other way to do naam abhyaas all the time unless we make it part of our swaas. We take swaas all the time, whether we are sleeping or awake. So to do abhyaas with swaas is the best thing to do.

As for the meaning of the pankiti, I already stated that the word "saas" has a sihaari in the end making this noun a "Karan Kaarak" noun. I don't know the English for "Karan kaarak" but it means "Saas Saas naal". or "Saas Saas raahee" i.e. through saas saas.

If it was to mean that we should cover every saas with Vaheguru naam, then the word saas would have had an "aunkad" in the end. Please read Gurbani viyaakaran for more details. They are going to be teaching Gurbani Viyaakaran at Gurdwara Tapoban Sahib. You can call them for more details.

I will be writing an article on the greatness of Gurbani Viyaakaran very soon.

Veer AK-47 Ji, I ask you, if a young Sikh came to you, who had arrived at an Amrit Sanchar with full Sharda. His Amrit was prepared in a stainless steel Batta, instead of reading the Panj Bania, his Panj did Simran over the Amrit (this has happened in the past). Most likely his Panj were not Nitnemi either. Would you qualify this as "Amrit", and would you leave him in this confused state, or would you advice him to Pesh at an Amrit Sanchar where Gurmat Maryada was followed?

Many people may disagree with Naam DriRh and if you disagree with it, no one is forcing you or others. But for those who are left confused on how to Jaap Naam (and Veer Ji I humbly disagree with you when you say that Naam can be Katha), receiving Naam DriRh has helped them immensely and they have left the Amrit Sanchar with a feeling they have been blessed with something very precious and special, and are on their way to becoming Abhiyasee Gursikhs.

And finally Veer Ji you have said you have never received this technique but you know what it is. I don't think it is possible to learn the technique by listening to others doing it in Sangat, or reading on books, internet, etc. If people are unsure on how to do Gurmantar they should approach their Guru in the form of the Panj.

[All-Info]

9. What is Naam Drirtaa?

Naam Drirtaa is the method used to instil Naam into those who wish to receive the divine gift of Amrit during the Amrit Sanchaar. This method is not the invention of the AKJ, but has been ongoing since the first Amrit Sanchaar. Other Panthic organisations also continue to use Naam Drirtaa. The method can only be explained in detail by the Panj Pyarai during an Amrit Sanchaar, as only the Guru has the right to impart the Naam. However, generally speaking, Naam Drirta sends the Naam into ones body and enables the Sikh to begin Simran with each and every breath.

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Therefore if someone other then AKJ give Naam Dhrih is that correct? As i have seen people and heard from the mouth of persons if they knew they were not able to go to a specific event, as they did not receive this gift thru the jatha they wouldnt have taken amrit from where they did.

Paji, you post signifies only the panj piyaara can give naam dhrir. Correct, but if they are not from the jatha, but have all received this gift, why would they be excluded... Same amrit, same technique same Guru Panj Pyaara...

Thats not a personal question, thats just open to anyone to answer.. as i am very confused.. How if you are given this same gift, why is it that there is so much conflict over where you received it...

WJKK WJKF

[Golee Maro]

i dont know how to some up what i need to say in a nutshell but i shall try...

I wish to... "renew" my faith. Admit to my wrong doings to Guru Maharaj and make a solid commitment to Him. I didnt know nothing when i was a kid. I was attracted by the big kirpaanaa Singhs used to wear and that done it for me. So the solution involves two options:

1. Go peshi infront of 5 pyaare

2. Take naam dirirh from AKJ, after taking my amrit again.

I believe, having read the posts on the forum, that number 2 is the best option, as my friend did a few weeks ago. I was scared as to how people from other jathas (such as Taksaal) who i know, wud react to me re-taking amrit. To be honest, i dont find many UK taksali singhs to be very ... warming, if they feel u "going from" taksaal to akj.

i have normally found myself a lover of all jathas - this has been the problem. I class myself as a Sikh. I have realised some of the most amazing Singhs and Kaurz i know are classed as AKJ ... and they must be doing something right because a LOT of youth coming into Sikhi nowadays are coming into Sikhi... thanks to AKJ. Thanks to the smagams, the keertani, the rehansbhais, the jeevans, the seva, everything. it is so inspirational and moving to see.

again, im not akj... but u have to give credit where its deserved. I done some silly things in my life... and the only Singhs n Singhnia who stood by me were those who live by the AKJ maryadha... the others, they jus snubbed u like ure <banned word filter activated> off their shoes!

Theres a post on Tapoban i totally agree with : http://www.tapoban.org/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=65873&t=65873

Author: Guroo!!

Date:  12-29-05 21:25

I am so happy that the AKJ YOUTH ARE GETTING SO MUCH INTO SIKHI AND KEEPING PUKKA AMRIT VELA. They are also sitting through out rensbai's and showing their thirst to meet vaaheguroo!! I hope mahraj keeps this kirpaa up and blesses us more youth like these! This could be signs of khalsa raaj coming very soon!!

Lets open our eyes a lil people - it DOES matter who gives amrit di daat - we have to keep our eyes open in this age of kali yuga. Ure not going to sit blindfolded in a room and wait for some random singhs in five to come and grace u with amrit. YOU do think of the jatha u r taking amrit from before u enter the divaan. U watch how they prepare the amrit. Make sure that everythings on par with the maryadha you have been taught. IN AN IDEAL WORLD, yes, all amrit would be the same. But this is not the case. This is not sat yuga. Its a dark age and i think too many people try n hide this fact. That doesnt mean go n create divisions - just do what you have to do and dont say nothin to no one.

I know u learned singhs such as ak-47 and all-info will have educative replies to above and i look forward to them, for i know that everything i say may not be 100% correct. I am on the learning path ... Im the lowest of the low... forgive my mistakes pyaario.

[khalsa mero roop]

Gurfaateh Jee,

The Punj Pyare from who you recieve Naam Dhrih from should be chardi kala rehit jeevan gursikhs. The more chardi kala your punj pyare are, the more chardi kala your bhagti will be. We should not just have any next person serving in the punj pyare, they should be rehit jeevan gursikhs, with pukka amrit vela and who don't eat out.

[AK-47]

Veer AK-47 Ji, I ask you, if a young Sikh came to you, who had arrived at an Amrit Sanchar with full Sharda. His Amrit was prepared in a stainless steel Batta, instead of reading the Panj Bania, his Panj did Simran over the Amrit (this has happened in the past). Most likely his Panj were not Nitnemi either. Would you qualify this as "Amrit", and would you leave him in this confused state, or would you advice him to Pesh at an Amrit Sanchar where Gurmat Maryada was followed?

I have never heard of the above happen and as such i would consider it to be a very strange and random event! MOST amrit sanchars areidentical in nature and the panj singhs are usually kamai vale singhs, so the above example doesnt really count.

Wat you usually have is a young kid who has taken amrit and then is bombarded with people telling him that his amrit isnt 'proper' that his simran isnt 'proper'. That he hasnt recieved a naam drih, despite his own panj pyareh having given it to him in a slightly different manner.

Sounds great doesnt it. Face it, this is the true reality of what is going on within some of the young sikhs today.

Many people may disagree with Naam DriRh and if you disagree with it, no one is forcing you or others. But for those who are left confused on how to Jaap Naam (and Veer Ji I humbly disagree with you when you say that Naam can be Katha), receiving Naam DriRh has helped them immensely and they have left the Amrit Sanchar with a feeling they have been blessed with something very precious and special, and are on their way to becoming Abhiyasee Gursikhs.

I have no issue with naam drirh its fine by my understanding. If by listening to katha your mind is absorbed in vaheguru then it is naam i believe. Just like you i know many sikhs who after taking amrit have also felt very blessd with something equally special and precious and are also on their way... but they didnt need to take amrit from any specific jatha or anything like that.

To golee maro, do as you feel is right, as long as you believe the amrit sanchar to be based on gurmat maryada then it doesnt matter where u go to do ur 'peshi'. (ps i am far from learned)

I think despite ur best efforts you are still experiencing a amrit=jatha problem. Taking amrit from any one jatha does not make u part of that jatha!!! If you wish to be part of a jatha then usually that means doing sangat with them or helping arrange events, and doing seva with them etc. This does not mean you HAVE to take amrit with them or that once you have you are one of them!!!

Eg, if u take amrit with some students from damdami taksal,you do not become part of damdami taksal or a taksali. you become an amrithdhari sikh. To become part of taksal or a 'taksali singh' would mean studying santhia, katha and keertan from taksal for around 7 years. Taking amrit from students of there doesnt make you that jatha!! Just as if somebody took amrit at an akj rehnsbhai they do not become member of the akj, they have simply taken amrit or gone pesh etc.

And bhai sahib, lets try and remember that it is GURU ji who is bringing people onto his own path, jathe and parhcharaks are simply his tools for doing this.

I know of a singh who has through his life taken amrit from the akj, takasl, and the akal takhat.... is there anything wrong with that.. i dont think so. The amrit sanchars he attended where the ones that took place when and where he needed to go do pesh. What jatha is he part of?

Underlying thing is this, if you want guru ji to forgive ur galti then amrit is amrit, and most amrit sanchars being done according to maryada are fine to go to. If you want forgiveness then all u should care about is guru ji, not what other people say or think or wat group ur getting forgivesness from! If these things are bothering you, re-asses why your going pesh!

If people are going pesh due to peer pressure or because they are told that their amrit sanchar which as i stated in MOST cases is done to maryada was not good enough or that they missed some special naam exchnage ceremony... then sorry to say but this is wrong. We do not re-take amrit to 'try something new' or to 'see what the fuss is about'!!! If you have taken amrit then your panj pyareh in guru roop will have given u all you need. To question guru ji's kirpa and go looking around like this is plain wrong. If you want naam enough ask vaheguru just like the gurus have done in gurbani again and again and you will get it.

Thats all i believe i can say on this topic. the rest is up to you, people can cheapen amrit sanchars and jump from amrit sanchar to amrit sanchar looking for that something extra. that is your choice. I apologise if the above has offended anybody it was not meant to do so.

[All-Info]

i dont know how to some up what i need to say in a nutshell but i shall try...

I wish to... "renew" my faith. Admit to my wrong doings to Guru Maharaj and make a solid commitment to Him. I didnt know nothing when i was a kid. I was attracted by the big kirpaanaa Singhs used to wear and that done it for me. So the solution involves two options:

1. Go peshi infront of 5 pyaare

2. Take naam dirirh from AKJ, after taking my amrit again.

I believe, having read the posts on the forum, that number 2 is the best option, as my friend did a few weeks ago. I was scared as to how people from other jathas (such as Taksaal) who i know, wud react to me re-taking amrit. To be honest, i dont find many UK taksali singhs to be very ... warming, if they feel u "going from" taksaal to akj.

i have normally found myself a lover of all jathas - this has been the problem. I class myself as a Sikh. I have realised some of the most amazing Singhs and Kaurz i know are classed as AKJ ... and they must be doing something right because a LOT of youth coming into Sikhi nowadays are coming into Sikhi... thanks to AKJ. Thanks to the smagams, the keertani, the rehansbhais, the jeevans, the seva, everything. it is so inspirational and moving to see.

again, im not akj... but u have to give credit where its deserved. I done some silly things in my life... and the only Singhs n Singhnia who stood by me were those who live by the AKJ maryadha... the others, they jus snubbed u like ure <banned word filter activated> off their shoes!

Theres a post on Tapoban i totally agree with : http://www.tapoban.org/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=65873&t=65873

Author: Guroo!!

Date:  12-29-05 21:25

I am so happy that the AKJ YOUTH ARE GETTING SO MUCH INTO SIKHI AND KEEPING PUKKA AMRIT VELA. They are also sitting through out rensbai's and showing their thirst to meet vaaheguroo!! I hope mahraj keeps this kirpaa up and blesses us more youth like these! This could be signs of khalsa raaj coming very soon!!

Lets open our eyes a lil people - it DOES matter who gives amrit di daat - we have to keep our eyes open in this age of kali yuga. Ure not going to sit blindfolded in a room and wait for some random singhs in five to come and grace u with amrit. YOU do think of the jatha u r taking amrit from before u enter the divaan. U watch how they prepare the amrit. Make sure that everythings on par with the maryadha you have been taught. IN AN IDEAL WORLD, yes, all amrit would be the same. But this is not the case. This is not sat yuga. Its a dark age and i think too many people try n hide this fact. That doesnt mean go n create divisions - just do what you have to do and dont say nothin to no one.

I know u learned singhs such as ak-47 and all-info will have educative replies to above and i look forward to them, for i know that everything i say may not be 100% correct. I am on the learning path ... Im the lowest of the low... forgive my mistakes pyaario.

144464[/snapback]

Paji, i can admit that yes there is conflict between the two jatha and will not mention as to why on a forum as it is an open invite to slander and that is not what this discussion is for!! But i can also agree when you say taksali singhs are not very welcoming. Bare in mind what taksal was...

Baba Deep Singh wouldnt let you leave Taksaal until he was confident you had had full training - 7-12yrs of Bani, now its one yr in Taksaal and you sorted... Something changed! lol the singhs that i duno did sooo much Bani they could fight with no head!!! and Write Bani without having to even think, their hand would flow.. thought the minimum time was 7yrs+ to gain full understanding, has gone out of the window to a yr..

Either way, besides the point, to focus on taking Amrit from somewhere coz it seems "Friendly" you could say, isnt really a good reason to pesh yeh? I mean think about it, are you here, on THIS EARTH to be friends with someone and get along with them or to Please Akaal Purakh. Yeh it does help to have a good set of friends and sangat but then to select where you would like this sangat to be isnt a good thing is it?

You have said this is Kal Jug, true, it is! And you pointed out whats wrong in it. So how about doing, the correct thing and pull down the barriers? AKJ Might be bringing in people, i have no problem with that or the Jatha. It is simply because people are understanding more so what Maharaj is saying in Keertan because the tunes are more catchy, there is now Sikhi To the Max translations so people can read, understand and appreciate the message.

People have lost interest in Raag also. I was having a conversation with a Chardi Kala Gursikh at a camp recently. Eventually the conversation lead to Keertan regarding Sikh Parchar for Bani etc and i agreed that the Jatha do promote an easier understanding of the Bani. But then when individuals only choose to listen to one style and disown others, is that correct? Keertan was Raag. It was so difficult to learn that is why it is so valuable. The Gurus wrote Bani in Raags for us to understand as it gives the message within the composition. Therefore when the Jatha you speak of, many individuals, the youth i can say as the elders, they still follow the rehit properly!! Take the amrit, but live (Sorry to say) Crap lives, its because they do not follow their rehit properly, OR appreciate what the Bani says.

I personally think your option from the 2 you gave, is the first one. And preferably at the NEXT amritsanchar (which will probably be AKJ anyway) as in personal opinion, when one needs to pesh, he should have so much love for Guru Ji, he doesnt distinguish the difference between jatha, he/she will only go to see Guru Ji.

As you said this isnt an ideal world, thats because we allow ourselves to have manmat thoughts and practises in our lives. When you clock the Bani yourself, when you clock the simran yourself, you will gain understanding and see no difference between Gursikhs.

If you require an example, read this story of Bhai Kineya http://www.sikhworld.co.uk/page12.1.html

The Person who say NO DIFFERENCE between Muslims and Sikhs on the battlefield, if he could do that, then why cant we between sikhs?

Jatha now days is a modern caste system within Sikhi. We built the barriers and in time it will divide the Sikhs even further then it already has.

You are correct in saying it does matter where you take your amrit from. It should be from Panj Singh who maintain REHIT. Pukha in the Rehit. If your rehit is not good, you miss amritvela, you dont jap naam, you just zip thru your nitnem coz u have to do it, then you have no piyaar in you. If you did, then you would take the time out to maintain these simple things we got told to do!!

The jatha is irrelevant, the Singhs who take on the role of the Panj Piyaaray, if they are not good in Rehit, then true, dont take amrit from that place as they put inside their qualities to. The more chardi kala they are, it willrub on to you. Your sangat to, they play a BIG part. If you dont keep Good Sangat, then again you will fail. This DOES NOT MEAN KEEP A JATHAS SANGAT! There are many pakhandis in the AKJ as well in others like taksaal to. Do not disown them because of this. Only keep the sangat of those who YOU KNOW keep good rehit, and can push your sikh, NOT coz they are not friendly towards you.

Gurfaateh Jee,

The Punj Pyare from who you recieve Naam Dhrih from should be chardi kala rehit jeevan gursikhs.  The more chardi kala your punj pyare are, the more chardi kala your bhagti will be.  We should not just have any next person serving in the punj pyare, they should be rehit jeevan gursikhs, with pukka amrit vela and who don't eat out.

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and if they are this? the same question applies...

[R. Kaur]

wjkk wjkf,

ak47 paji ive been reading through your post on this and this makes sense, and i agree.

fateh!

[randip singh]

Edited - Such insulting remarks against Amrit are not allowed.

144301[/snapback]

I've put my comments here.

MOD EDITED

Should have been more specific to Charan Amrit.

MOD NOTE : DO NOT POST THOSE REMARKS OR ANY LINK TO THOSE REMARKS ON THIS FORUM AGAIN. THANKS.

144451[/snapback]

Please point out where I have made insulting remarks.

Tread carefully friend as you are trying to malign my name.

I have posted historical accounts and you wish to censor them?

what are we Sikhs or the Taliban?

Note - Historical accounts could very well be wrong especially the ones that misrepresent Amrit Sanchaar. Do you really expect Sikhs to accept false historical accounts? The answer is no. Anti-Sikhi posts/topics/comments are not allowed on this forum. Contact the admin directly if you have further questions.