The Curse Of Casteism Among Sikhs

[Sweet Punjaban]

Why did caste originate within us human beings? Why are there several religions which exist within this world? Well no-one truly knows but I believe its Gods way of testing us...do we diffrentiate ourselves into certain groups and sects of people? Or do we learn to gel in with everyone and learn we are not all separate at all actually, but are merely separte leaves off separate branches of the same tree...?(as I believe?)

If my birth has born me into a chumaar family am I sikh or hindu? I respect both religions equally and admire their true followers also a great deal. My parents always wrote my religion as 'Hindu' since I was young, yet I was confused why do we attend a Gurdwara as I got older, and why do all of our cousins/ relatives get married in Gurdwareh? Yet I do praise Shinji and Lord Krishna. Then one day I was asked at school "So what cast are you?" I didn't know how to reply as I had not been brought up with a cast attatched to my name...but eventually with time and after asking my parents I learnt I was 'chumaar'. I also learnt with time that this was regarded as a 'low' cast

Anyways what was to happen as I got even older? I fell in love with an admirable sikh lad...(this is some deep personal stuff I cant believe Im actually writing about but this thread has made me wish to speak up)...He was ofcourse OF A DIFFERENT CAST! Hmm a so-called 'bhatra-sikh' as it were..none of my friends had herd of the cast to be honest, as hadn't my family, but my parents did something which I never would have expected from them...they agreed for our marriage! My mum had always said if you do find someone yourself he best be chumaar! With time tho she widened my spectrum (lol) by saying "look as long as their indian I don't mind", (as in either hindu or sikh)..but she did tend to add on in the end shed prefer if they wern't too high or low in cast to us! lol!

Anyways it took one year and nine months for that guy to tell his father about his relationship with me and his wish to marry me...his mum already knew and did not mind but knew the dad would not agree so happily..but I told him at the end of the day how can we get married without your parents consent? I had always found his strong sikh knowledge and background quite attractive from day one, all which he thanked his father for, to give him such a disciplined and cultured upbringing. Yet what happened eventually was so sad...his father did not consent to his marriage with me, a girl from a different cast! AND DIFFERENT RELIGION (He had usually defined me as a hindu...hmm).

I gave him a choice then, I didn't want him to leave his family for me as i knew he loved them too much, but I could also not live without him...I told him the only way I see out of this is to either leave your family for me or leave me for you family...you cant have both...but either way I would agree with whatever he chose.

He chose his family over me...he said he wouldn't want to be responsible to break up his family...I was quite proud of his decision, though it was so hard for both of us to acknowledge that things hadnt quite gone as wed planned...but at the time I did laugh out and say I always thought your father was a true sikh, yet my parents turned out to be more 'sikh' than your father as they accepted you regardless of cast, religion or race, yet your father held all those against me...

Was his father right in doing so? Was him seeing me as a hindu and not sikh reason enough to reject me? Or the fact that it would have been out of cast and he couldn't possibly let a chumaari into their house??

According to the Sikh Code of Conduct, Clause XVIII clearly specifies that "a Sikh should

marry a Sikh", which means the young couple had done nothing wrong, but acted within

the prescribed codes of Sikhism.

I have learned though that people form various castes do live differently to those from other castes, and so such marriages would need much room for adjustment and compromise. But hey isn't that what marriage is about anyway?

Back to the story (lol) was his father decisions justified? What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks for reading my post, Im looking forward to hearing everyones views on this! (maybe I should have opened a new topic? lol) :|

[Khalsa_Girl_1]

I sincerely believe if we didn't live amongst the hindus today, we'd not be involved in Jaat paat as we do! They have a large influence on us!

The Hindu's believe in caste less than us Sikhs... ....thats another fact we Sikhs should be ashamed of.

ahaha...

think again jio

[jassa]

guru gobind singh da bachan hai jehra sikh dujje sikh toon ohdi jaat pushda oh mera sikh nahi bhaven amritdhari keyon na hove ...

khalsa raj auuga sarre theek kar deyange

akal gurbur akal

[Guest PRITAM SINGH KHALSA]

NT JUst Wearing a Turban  and Beard DOES NT MAKE YOU A TRUE SIKH

159691[/snapback]

:TH: very true...i mean take a look at these wierdo giannis, these wannabe Gurus...

A turban and beard is the first step.

A turban means you dont cut your hair {unlike some men whole wear a turban on sunday but cut their hair}

Guru Ji says dont cut your hair, but people insult GuruJi by doing so and justify it too. Thats where a huge problem occurss and the whole panth takes that beating for it and now people justifying not keeping Kash is spreading like wildfire in 110 degree weather in 100 mph winds.

You dont need a beard if you are young and dont grow onw yet{ for boys/men } but once you start to grow a beard means God started to grow your beard and you insult Wahegurus creation by ridding it off your face.

A true Sikh listens to the Guru and doesnt justify things to fit his insecure life about Sikhi.

When you want Amrit means you promise to be a GurSikh and do what GuruJi wants by not cutting hair etc.

Think again from what you think {manmat} I think girls just dont want hair legs that they have to have under modest clothes they want to walk around like all the other women in society and show off their body.

Need I say more.

[Sweet Punjaban]

NT JUst Wearing a Turban  and Beard DOES NT MAKE YOU A TRUE SIKH

159691[/snapback]

:TH: very true...i mean take a look at these wierdo giannis, these wannabe Gurus...

A turban and beard is the first step.

A turban means you dont cut your hair {unlike some men whole wear a turban on sunday but cut their hair}

Guru Ji says dont cut your hair, but people insult GuruJi by doing so and justify it too. Thats where a huge problem occurss and the whole panth takes that beating for it and now people justifying not keeping Kash is spreading like wildfire in 110 degree weather in 100 mph winds.

You dont need a beard if you are young and dont grow onw yet{ for boys/men } but once you start to grow a beard means God started to grow your beard and you insult Wahegurus creation by ridding it off your face.

A true Sikh listens to the Guru and doesnt justify things to fit his insecure life about Sikhi.

When you want Amrit means you promise to be a GurSikh and do what GuruJi wants by not cutting hair etc.

Think again from what you think {manmat} I think girls just dont want hair legs that they have to have under modest clothes they want to walk around like all the other women in society and show off their body.

Need I say more.

Many of you men still prefer hairless women though, I mean God created us women with monobrows, toshes, hairy arms, armpits and legs....some bichariya even have it ont their hands and feet slightly :| ... yet we feel compelled to have to get rid of it due to it looking 'unlady like' and unpleasant....which is quite sad really, we are the way we are and should be accepted as that too..

But if you don't mind your women having that then thats fine, I just don't like some people (in particularly guys) being hypocrites...(thats not directed at anyone, just a point I wanted to make). :wub:

[singh1986]

My Family once got told to leave a Gurdwara because we werent the right caste! Till this day I still cant figure out how they knew we belonged to a certain caste.

[_K_]

My Family once got told to leave a Gurdwara because we werent the right caste! Till this day I still cant figure out how they knew we belonged to a certain caste.

thats..... shocking. what right did they have 2 tell u 2 leav... THER IS NO CASTE!!!! :|

its bad enough 2 name Gurdwareh after caste...but 2 tell ppl 2 leav because they do not match th criteria on the sign?!

Gurdwareh are open 2 all

[Gupt Lion]

the caste is for the ignorant people who need to make themself feel bigger than others

now we even have caste gurdwareh for some reason my view is not to go to these gurdwareh orany gurdwareh that promote caste

but then agen most gurdwareh do promote caste lol

neway alot of the older genration have corrupted sikhi and its up to the youth to unite the reason all these things are happening because their is not enough naam in the panth , the more naam the better it will be

[khalsaforce]

I know many of us on the forums goto school and understand there should be no caste system stuff, like jatt ja tarkhan or bhapaa. But the biggest problem is who will explain to people in pinds(villages), my grandpa was taught u have to show ur anakh cuz u are a jatt he told my dad then my dad told me but I kind of agree with all of u the caste stuff will mess up our sikhi and there should not be any caste system. If you tell this stuff to a jatt in my pind i am sure u wont stand on ur legs,so pehla apna ghara vich chati mariya and apna ghara nu theek karo teh free karo caste system apna apna ghara vichu then think about others in ur colony or whereever u live. You cant just read some gurbani lines and tell a jatt u should not be a jatt u should be a sikh,(if u do that i am sure u will get hurt so becareful who u say it to),it looks easy but its very hard to tell others that caste system shouldnot exist in sikhi.

Personally i wanna say something I dont care if a person wants to be called a jatt or a tarkhan but I wont believe in caste system myself, but i dont have any problems with others calling themselves jatts or tarkhans.

[Lionchild]

A turban and beard is the first step.

A turban means you dont cut your hair {unlike some men whole wear a turban on sunday but cut their hair}

Guru Ji says dont cut your hair, but people insult GuruJi by doing so and justify it too. Thats where a huge problem occurss and the whole panth takes that beating for it and now people justifying not keeping Kash is spreading like wildfire in 110 degree weather in 100 mph winds.

You dont need a beard if you are young and dont grow onw yet{ for boys/men } but once you start to grow a beard means God started to grow your beard and you insult Wahegurus creation by ridding it off your face.

A true Sikh listens to the Guru and doesnt justify things to fit his insecure life about Sikhi.

When you want Amrit means you promise to be a GurSikh and do what GuruJi wants by not cutting hair etc.

Think again from what you think {manmat} I think girls just dont want hair legs that they have to have under modest clothes they want to walk around like all the other women in society and show off their body.

Need I say more.

Actually, wearing dastaar and 5k's is not the first step... the first step is to find out learn basics of sikhi, remember one step at a time. Wearing dastaar and 5k's and not knowing there' meaning is worse than not wearing it at all, because the individual doenst now it's meaning and it is basicaly just for show. I wore are simple head covering for months before weaing a dastaar, and i only have started wearing 5k's once i knew them. You can't be a gursikh or sikh overnight, it must be taken slowly, not all at once.