Spirits, Curses And Superstitions

[ssinghuk]

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=956

[crayzy]

post by mistake

[Lion(LK)King]

As Gursikhs we do not need to quarel about this, since it's completly irrelevant to our Sikhi whether they exist or not.

We do not believe in superstitions, but whether ghosts and spritis exist, seriously doesn't matter.

[Gupt daasan daas]

lionking nailed it

dont really matter to us

but i still suggest everyone to read undithee duniya

very good read

bhula chuka maf

[randip singh]

can you show me where Guru Sahib says this?

He 'believes' those stories? please, he was there and saw them with his own eyes.

We dont use the occult, just like Gursikhs with Ridhia Sidhia don't use them either. Doesnt mean it doesnt exist.

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Here’s Guruji’s view on superstitious claptrap like that:

Page 190

ga-orhee mehlaa 5.

Gauree, Fifth Mehl:

jaa ka-o apnee kirpaa Dhaarai.

Those, upon whom the Lord Himself showers His Mercy,

so jan rasnaa naam uchaaray. ||1||

chant the Naam, the Name of the Lord, with their tongues. ||1||

har bisrat sahsaa dukh bi-aapai.

Forgetting the Lord, superstition and sorrow shall overtake you.

simrat naam bharam bha-o bhaagai. ||1|| rahaa-o.

Meditating on the Naam, doubt and fear shall depart. ||1||Pause||

har keertan sunai har keertan gaavai.

Listening to the Kirtan of the Lord's Praises, and singing the Lord's Kirtan,

tis jan dookh nikat nahee aavai. ||2||

misfortune shall not even come near you. ||2||

har kee tahal karat jan sohai.

Working for the Lord, His humble servants look beautiful.

taa ka-o maa-i-aa agan na pohai. ||3||

The fire of Maya does not touch them. ||3||

man tan mukh har naam da-i-aal.

Within their minds, bodies and mouths, is the Name of the Merciful Lord.

naanak tajee-alay avar janjaal. ||4||52||121||

Nanak has renounced other entanglements. ||4||52||121||

assertion is worthless, tell me how its a metaphor. .

155697[/snapback]

Assertion hmm. So someone elses opinion is worthless assertion …..I’m beginning to understand you now.

and who is talking about demonic possession.

155697[/snapback]

It all comes from the same hymn sheet doesn’t it (that’s a metaphor btw).

Again, I dont want to question your ability to understand english, but he 'will be' nothing?? - the tukh talks about the dying thought of a person. If you read the gurmukhi you will understand - and it clearly states you will be reincarnated as a pret.

155697[/snapback]

Well why bring up my ability to understand English then?

The Tukh reads to me talking of people who indulge in the 5 vices, and uses metaphors of ghosts and prostitutes to illustrate the deep problems they will face no doubt.

I get the feeling you dont know what a metaphor is.

If you can read the Gurbani quoted and still claim its a metaphor all I can say is that you are in denial.

155697[/snapback]

Ok I am in denial and don’t know what a metaphor is. You are all knowing. Oh brother.

this thread is about ghosts.

155697[/snapback]

Yes and you believe in them. I don’t.

based on what?

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Page 3

jay ko man jaanai man ko-ay. ||12||

Only one who has faith comes to know such a state of mind. ||12||

mannai surat hovai man buDh.

The faithful have intuitive awareness and intelligence.

mannai sagal bhavan kee suDh.

The faithful know about all worlds and realms.

mannai muhi chotaa naa khaa-ay.

The faithful shall never be struck across the face.

Gurbani mentions pret, bhoot, narak, dojak, devte but you think youi're smarter

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Also mentions, Krishna, Ram, Mohammed , the bible….do you believe in that to.

You are being very stupid now. I don’t think I’m smarter, but I think you are very immature.

stop trying to twist the message of Gurbani to support your views, a true Sikh changes his view to support the Gurus, not the other way around.

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Stop trying to make young Sikhs belive in Ghosts and the Bogeyman.

you *keep* saying this. You never back it up. What indications?

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Here is an example from the SGGSji

satgur mantar dee-o har naam.

The True Guru has given me the Mantra of the Lord's Name.

ih aasar pooran bha-ay kaam. ||2||

By this Support, my affairs have been resolved. ||2||

jap tap sanjam pooree vadi-aa-ee.

Meditation, self-discipline, self-control and perfect greatness,

gur kirpaal har bha-ay sahaa-ee. ||3||

were obtained when the Merciful Lord, the Guru, became my Help and Support. ||3||

maan moh kho-ay gur bharam.

The Guru has dispelled pride, emotional attachment and superstition.

paykh naanak pasray paarbarahm. ||4||81||150||

Nanak sees the Supreme Lord God pervading everywhere. ||4||81||150||

There are also many stories attributed to the Guru’s that they never paid heed to Superstition or the occult.

Who has said we should practice the occult? Nobody

155697[/snapback]

Ghosts, superstition, prets etc..aren’t they all to do with occult?

No one has denied that people live like ghosts - so those points are invalid, same with the points about panj doot.

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Yes I know my points are invalid

The only denial here is yours of the existence of pret.

155697[/snapback]

No I am saying your understanding and interpretation is wrong.

It seems to me that you're afraid to see the truth because you see talking about ghosts as a case of 'guilt by association'.

155697[/snapback]

I’d rather be blind than see the truth through superstitious eyes.

thats like saying that I shouldnt listen to my teachers, I should sit around trying to explain calculus to myself. If people cant learn something as simple as math on their own, how are you going to learn the hardest art, Brahm Vidiya by reading translation of Guru Sahib and makig your own assumptions about the meaning of Gurbani.

To ignore the experiences of anbhavi Gursikhs like Bhai Randir Singh, Sant ISher SIngh etc etc is like sitting in the dark refusing to turn on the light and then complaining that you cant see.

now that is a metaphor.

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I thought the Sri Guru Granth Sahib was your teacher? Maybe you are on another path?

[crayzy]

Also mentions, Krishna, Ram, Mohammed , the bible

oh so now they didnt exist either

none of your quotes say anything against the existence of pret.

try again

PS you still havent dropped the hollywood idea that pret are all evil 'bogeyman'

[kurtas]

Ghosts sure do exist.

I know of a few people who have seen them. They have truly interesting stories. One involves a whole troupe of ghost women dancing past a dried up riverbed in Punjab. The people who saw it were so scared that after the event that they dared not go out and due to the fear got ill.

I know of a few relatives who claimed they were possesed by ghosts. One was quite funny because this man well versed in these things came to beat the spirit out the person. After he had beaten one possessed person it was the turn of the other person. She saw the earlier beating and got so scared that she admitted she had been faking the whole thing.

Another strange one was a boy in the village whos kesh were cut at night. His family claimed some spirit had done it. They took him to some woman who told the family that no spirit had done it but their son had cut his own kesh. He soon admitted he had cut his kesh and got good shithar when he got home.

In 2004 we had talk of some strange being in north Haryana. It could change into anything and went around attacking people. These guys I know claimed it was 100% true and that they had seen a victim. Some "baba" type was asking for 30lakh rupees to get rid of this super being. In the ned it all came out, the first victim was a teenage girl who came home late, the girls mother hit her with a rolling pin and cut her face. To avoid problems they invented a story that some superbeing had attacked the girl. As the story spread more and more people claimed to have been attacked. Things reached such a fever pitch that the police got involved they questioned the first victim who admitted her mother had hit her. The super being was never heard from again.

[Gupt daasan daas]

i personally have encountred ghosts

and i aint makin it up

but who cares bout em

lion king was right

please READ UNDITHEE DUNIYA

and randip singhje, u havnt disproved ghosts

u jus disprove superstition

and wat is superstition then?

trying red strings on ur ehand for no reason is superstition

but when gurbani cleary says ghosts is a joon, and when many crediable people such as bhai sahib, sants9 RELIABLE TRU SANTS, not fakes) have said they seen em too, somthin happenin then

guru granth sahib je is our guru

but guru je also said tha the whole point of sadhoos is to help us on our path

theres a reaosn gurbani calls them the redeemers and savious of the world

through them we are inspired, and we learn from them

and the ultimate soruce for everything for everyone of course is guru granth sahib je

but u cant ignore every single sant anf gursikh who says ghosts r real

and gurbani is clear too

bhula chuka maf

[randip singh]

I've said what I've gotta say on this thanks! :lol:

[crayzy]

which isn't much