Bhagat Ravidass / Guru Ravidass?

[banaras]

Edited - Do not insult Guru Nanak Sahib. Pictures are not facts.

[Pakachumar]

Great Guru Nanak Devji fought all his life against mindless rituals and symbolism in religion and today his followers kill somebody because he was sitting with the holy book Adi Granth instead of a notch lower. How stupid one can go on these things, some times back they were trying to kill some one else because he was dressed as Guru Govind Singhji. All the problems of rituals and castism that were cleaned by these Ten Gurus are now a days back in modern day Sikhism. Its time we all read and interpret the Adi Granth an japji Sahab once again and start the clean up act

[Azaad]

At the Guru Ravidas Bhawan on Union St (off Soho Rd), theres pictures of the 10 Guru Sahiban aswell as the Bhagats and Bhats whose Bani is included in Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj. However instead they call Bhagat Kabir ji as Guru Kabir Ji, Bhagat Farid ji as Guru Farid Ji, Bhagat Dhanna Ji as Guru Dhanna ji and so on.....

They are basically calling everyone who has Bani in Guru Granth Sahib ji a Guru...

[Wake_Up]

I do not believe that there was a Guru Ravidass. Gurgadi Passed from Guru to Guru and as it was not passed to Bhagat Ravidaas then i do not belive there is a Guru Ravidass. Dont get me wrong i respect his teachings if they were deemed to be worthy of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji but he did not ever recieve the place of Guruship so no. There was no Guru Ravidass but Bhagat Ravidass. I hope everyone agrees.

I Agree. No such thing as Guru Ravidass in the Sikh Religon.

[ghorandhar]

Great Guru Nanak Devji fought all his life against mindless rituals and symbolism in religion and today his followers kill somebody because he was sitting with the holy book Adi Granth instead of a notch lower. How stupid one can go on these things, some times back they were trying to kill some one else because he was dressed as Guru Govind Singhji. All the problems of rituals and castism that were cleaned by these Ten Gurus are now a days back in modern day Sikhism. Its time we all read and interpret the Adi Granth an japji Sahab once again and start the clean up act

Guru Granth Sahib jee Maharaj not holy book Adi Granth. If you respect the Views of Sikhi by using the correct terminology and not offensive ones then people would not be hostile towards you. However you want to provoke trouble.

You complain about caste being cleaned by Guru Gobind Singh jee yet you call yourself pukachumar. What a paradox.

Poti Parmeshar ka Dhaan. (Raag Sarang).

[satpunga singh]

bhagat

[Trigger Happy]

Taken from the other Vinetta 'Red' Ice Cream Post :

Daas took birth in a Ravidaasi household and the bitter truth is that the majority of Ravidaasi's in India and abroad do not know what or who they are. Confused.com best describes the frequent switching between labels (I'm Sikh, I'm Hindu, I'm both, I'm a quarter this and an half of that!). If you don't like what has been said, kiss my black behind :lol:

But before my 'chammy brothers' want to put a bullet in this empty head or even 'Sikhs' or dumb 'Jatt Sikhs' for that matter, lol.... listen up

Sikh's do not own the word 'Guru' or 'Sikh' in a mere simple language sense, regardless of Satguru Ji blessing the 'unpar' people of Panjab with a beautiful language of Gurmukhi/Panjabi for them to communicate more effectively.

As all you knowledgebale people here know, Sikh in a general sense means 'to learn', many of you here may of heard of the phrase 'khush sikhla putt'!. In respect to Sikhi, the term means something different altogether taking on a whole new meaning, with the above said being a part of the definition, there is no better definition of a 'Sikh' than that in Immortal Bani of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji forget the idiotic SGPC's definition and that of other so called leaders. And to make it clear daas doesn't have faith in the SGPC derived Rehat Maryada, so once again, if you don't like what has been said, kiss my black behind :lol: . Same goes for the jokers out there thinking they are 'Sikh' beacuse they got Kaur or Singh in their name but haven't taken Anmrit yet so haven't TRULY been blessed with being given the name by Guru Ji, or those who have a 'Khanda hanging from the Mirror of their car', or the best on yet 'born a Sikh, die a Sikh hero's'.

Back to the post, there have been fake people around since the times of the 'Guru's' (on about Sikhi here), but True Saints (of any faith) will never disrespect the Faith or Beliefs of any another because if they are Truly one with God then they have been blessed with not seeing worldy boundaries by Akaal Purkh Waheguru Ji. Really think about this, it may make your head hurt but the realisation is just simply beautiful.

Now the thing is if people all over the world followed what True Sikhi is and didn't fall into ManMat ways and thinking on lines on caste basis then there would only be a very few number of people that still felt alienated and would want to start up 'their own' individual places of worship. It is those who believe in Caste yet call themselves Sikh's of SatGuru Ji that have marginlised other denominations of people in society. This has led to what seems like a never ending problem.

It is our responsibility to make converts into Sikhi who were originally initiated by Khande Batta Anmrit and their families part of Sikhi. We owe this to what Sikhi really is and to Satguru Ji.

Now in respect to Bhagat Ravidaas, they were blessed with being truly caste free and hence at that time they were persecuted, oppressed by the Brahmins and Brahminism mindset, just as Sufi Saints have been in Islam. Hence they were not 'Hindu' even though they came originally from a low class Hindu background. Through Spirituality they were allowed to brake free from this worldly divider. Thus in their own right believers of Bhagat Ravidaas call Him their 'Guru'. So yes the true believers are a seperate Panth (nope Sikhs do not own this word either ) in their own right. That is why the un-confused believers of Bhagat Ravidaas' can be labelled as 'Ravidaasi Sikh's'.

Other complication's started to arise when the Brahminism regime started engulfing sects such as Jains etc in the umbrella of Hinduism and other problems from the 'lets do whats right' movements within the Sikh fold. To escape being classified as backward class and to gain more rights people from 'Mehzibi' 'Dalit' 'Ravidassi' backgrounds started to convert on mass to different faiths to escape the stigma of being lowest of the low. However the harsh reality for these converts to other faiths was that they were still thought of as low cast, thus there are similar problems with Christians and Muslims too in what is mainly in India.

As Sikhs in the land of Hindustan, the constitution doesn't accept Sikhi as a seperate faith so thus converts were at a loss and still labelled as Hindu on the grounds of all the BC, SC, HC, BS, BS, BS and more BS labels :rolleyes: .

Now quite easily instead of the Befkoof SGPC and so called Sikh leaders trying to give a false sense of belonging to other denominations to embrace Sikhi and thus in a way for them to retain their pathetic positions of power which from day one they have never been able to do justice too. The SGPC could have easily given the go ahead to the Ravidaasi's who clearly didn't want to join the Khalsa to have Pothi Sahib's of Bhagat Ji's Bani in their Mandirs, Bhawans, Gurdwara or whatever. Where is the issue in this? There isn't one, its all about attachement. For Sikhs it is Gurbani, for Ravidaasi's it would be their Guru's bani (note here it is a shame that believers of Bhagat Ravidaas do not give the same emphasis on Bhagat Ji's other bani's which were not included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ). They might copy the tradition of doing Chaur Sahib Seva, etc etc, but to Sikhs this should simply be seen as Satkaar for Bani and thus not an attack on Sikhi or Guruship. Hence any 'Baba Waba' who wanted to sit on par with Bhagat Ji's bani, would need to get 'capped' by Ravidaasi's next time round first, :lol: .

[Harjeet.Singh]

bhagats ultimately become God, therefore he is a bhagat and guru at the same time. The guru's are bhagats, the bhagats are the guru.

ਸੰਤ ਅਨੰਤਹਿ ਅੰਤਰੁ ਨਾਹੀ ॥੪॥੨॥

there is no difference between the Saints and the Infinite Lord. ||4||2||

At one time they might of just been mere "bhagats", but now they are apart of God and Guru now. One aspect of them is like bhagat. Even the Guru's in their bani, even though they are God, talk about themselves as if they are terrible people.

In the same way, God is his devotees, because his devotees shed their ego, and individualism and are now at 1 with God. That just leaves God. God is the Guru. Therefore, making Ravidas the Guru too. But not a different guru, he has the same light as Guru Nanak, the same light of God. There is no difference.

Yes maybe at onetime Ravidas was just a worshipper of God, but now he is with God. If Ravidas didn't have the same light as our Guru's, his bani would not have been compatible with SGGS. But they do go together. Because they only go together because they are at 1. They are not separate entities. There is only 1 satguru. Otherwise it is like saying the 11 gurus are all separate satgurus. But NO, they all shared the same divine light of God. And that is only 1.

Same with us, we are all atmas, trying to get to the paramatma. So if now we are just a mere follower, or devotee of God. One day, we might actually become united with God. Therefore making us God too, as well as a bhagat. The guru's didn't want us to become, like them. They actually wanted us to really become them. Because only God is perfect.

Therefore bhagat ravidas, is God aswell now. There is no difference between Guru Nanak and Ravidas, they share the same paramatma now. Ravidas calls himself a bhagat, even though he really is God in his bani, just shows the amount of humility.

More evidence is that ravidas's bani is classed as GURBANI! And guru's bani is guru's bani, there can only be one. Therefore ravidas is the Guru, as well as a bhagat. Same way any of us can become the Guru. But that doesn't mean we get rid of the old guru, so they make way for us. We just become at 1 with the same Guru. The 1 divine satguru.

[Guest HaRdKaUrWaRrIoRz]

here are my two cents , its taken from another post i made:

first and foremost, I am not a ravidaas follower or anything and jsut to clear it up ( i know sikhi does NOT condemn this but i want to allow ppl to see who this viewpoint is coming from YES MY ANCESTORS WERE JATT SO I DO COME FROM A JATT BACKGROUND, BUT I AM A SIKH SO I DONT BELIEVE INTHAT NONSENSE, ITSMORE LIEK A JOB NOT A CASTE TO ME)

anyways, you are right, ravidaas community is accpeted by sikhs, they never did any beadbi and they all of your points should answer any questions the misguided youth should have, i swear its so annoying that youth dont know as much about sikhi as elders and they take evrything to such an extreme, why dont you learn something first, i am a youth as well but im sure older than more thanhalf of you..

anyways enough of my rant, but this whole move by khalistan w.e force, where di they come from? if a BABBAR SINGH can say that they are accpeted in sikhs then how can these same ppl who rant about 84 go against that belief? btw my opinion is not solely based on what the singh said, i know for a fact that they dont do beadbi, i meamn look for urselves a bit guys dont just believe what you read, do your own research, WHAT ABOUT SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI, WERE ALL OF THE BHAGATS THAT WROT IN THERE AMRIT DHARI? WHERE THEY ALL SIKHS? i swear some ppl are a joke, if bhagat ravidaas ji IS IN SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI, THEN THE <banned word filter activated> WHO BURNT SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI IN INDIA CLEARLY ISNT A RAVIDAASI FOLLOWER . WHY > BECAUSE AT THE SAME TIME HE GAVE SHAHEEDI TO BHAGAT RAVIDAAS JI, WHO CONTRIBUTED TO OUYR HOLY GURU, SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI, ARE PEOPLE BLIND IN BELIEVIN THAT A RAVIDAASIA WOULD DO THAT?

people THINK about it a bit, i cant believe how easily the sikh panth can be shaken by politicians and other enemies who want this to happen between us, this is a plot by someone who clearly is ANTI sikh to raise hell within our sikh community, do not put divides! if someone is hindu , muslim and they are truly god loving, and we praise them as sikhs ( bhai mardana, bhagat farid ji) then what is wrong with ravidaasi;s who are not manipulating anything but instead praising a bhagat in guru granth sahib ji?

do you guys realize that you can be a bhagat without taking amrit? what do you think where the bhagats in guru granth sahib ji? some were muslim etc not all were sikhs BUT THEY DID KEEP REHIT ACCORDING TO SIKH VALUES as do ravidaas community, they do utmost respect of sri guru granth sahib ji ...

i know im going on a rant but thats because i cant believe how easily our panth can be fooled by ppl who are hell bent on putting divides in us, dont u rem the english divide and rule ?? think of it as the same thing and maybe it might click for some of u

this wasnt directed at all of you guys but for some who i know have the wrong idea and are easily manipulated, the truth hurts, but its better to be hurt than to live a misguided and false life.

again this is coming from a person whose ancestors were jatts and even tho i do not associate myself with that title it is shopwing you tht AS A SIKH I LOVE MY FELLOW SIKHS WHO ARE FROM CHAMAAR BACKGROUND OR TARKHAN BACKGROUND OR ANY BACKGROUND because for me that doesnt exist, what exists for me is that you are my brothers and sisters who believe in a common thing , in the end if you ask me wat i am ,what is my caste id say WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, I AM FROM THE FAMILY OF GURU GOBIND SINGH JI, MY ANCESTORS WERE SPIRITUAL AND GODLY WARRIORS, WHAT ARE YOU?

pce

[Harjeet.Singh]

ਸਹਸ ਤਵ ਨੈਨ ਨਨ ਨੈਨ ਹਹਿ ਤੋਹਿ ਕਉ ਸਹਸ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਨਨਾ ਏਕ ਤਹੀ ॥

You have thousands of eyes, and yet You have no eyes. You have thousands of forms, and yet You do not have even one.

ਸਹਸ ਪਦ ਬਿਮਲ ਨਨ ਏਕ ਪਦ ਗੰਧ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਹਸ ਤਵ ਗੰਧ ਇਵ ਚਲਤ ਮੋਹੀ ॥੨॥

You have thousands of Lotus Feet, and yet You do not have even one foot. You have no nose, but you have thousands of noses. This Play of Yours entrances me. ||2||

God is things and he isn't at the same time. Its hard to comprehend. But Ravidas is Guru aswell now. But we shouldn't worship a picture of ravidas, because ravidas is the Guru Granth Sahib ji now. Thats why when we bow down to SGGS, we bow to all the Guru's and all the bhagats. But they are all at 1. So we are not worshipping mutiples, only worshipping 1. Ek oankaar.

Just like God can be worshipped in a mosque, or in a church, on in a temple or gurdwara, God is not limited to just 1 entity. But in reality God is just 1.