Should The Gurdwaras Disallow Pictures?

[gupt_paapi]

Just to add what Mr Pakhandi Baba Ji said: Guru Gobind Singh Ji also said (written in Dasam Granth Sahib) something like - If you worship me as God you shall go to hell.

Its where Guru Ji talks about how rishis/semi-gods came into being and got poeple to bow to Them rather than God..

[SSB]

Pictures of the guru's i think should be banned but i think some pictures should be kept which show sikh history of shaheed singhs and singhnia such as pictures of Shaheed Baba Deep Singh Ji when they fought agaisnt thousands of Muyghals headless.. these should be kept because they remind us of our history and dharam and ofcourse making us never forget those soorme.

[K Singh 82]

as far as im aware (i could be wrong) no images/pictures of the Guru's were created in the times from Guru Nanak Dev Ji Mahraaj to Guru Gobind Singh Ji Mahraj.

If in the 150 so years after Guru Nanak Dev Ji no other Guru's attempted to paint Guru Nanak Dev Ji, then why have we?

again i may be wrong, but i think if the Guru Ji's didn't do it themselves which they easily could have, why have we?

Just some food for though....

[Bundha]

I personally think that it is okay to have pictures of the Gurus.

If it helps me remember by pita then that is a good thing for me. If I move from one room to another and I see Guru Sahib Ji ji’s face then I say ‘waheguru’ and I remember him, I think this is a good thing.

I have been to some houses and there are not pics of the Gurus, instead you have modern art or female forms..... what would you rather have????

<<<< but i think if the Guru Ji's didn't do it themselves which they easily could have, why have we? >>>>

This is a non-argument. How many of us have had our own portraits painted? Not many, the Gurus had total nimarta so they would never have a picture painted of them, which is not the same to say that they disapproved. There is a sakhi of a painter who painted a portrait of Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib Ji but couldn’t quite get the eyes right so Guru Ji took the brush and painted the eyes in Himself.

It is also a none argument that they are not a true likeness. We know that the likeness is most likely not exact, BUT all the features are there as described in many texts. We know Guru Nanak Dev Ji wore a goal pagg, that they wore a khudder chola, that they were quite tall and slim and wore kharama. Have you ever seen a picture of Guru Nanak Dev Ji over weight?

So the likness is there to a degree BUT that is not the important thing, the thing is that they are aids to remind us of our father, that is important.

Next you will harp on about idols and statues. These are very rare and only a fool would have them, they have not proliferated before and I doubt they will in the future because the sangat is a lot more savvy these days then ever before.

However there is a picture of Guru Nanak Dev Ji approved by Baba Nand singh Ji, true likness whether you like it or not, bad kismet if you don’t!

<<<< Agree with you 100%.....what I find even more distasteful is pictures of Sants etc in Gurudwara's etc. >>>>

Wondered when the bogey of the ‘Sant; would be raised yet again, which is normal in almost every thread these days. People cannot stand spirituality. Would you begrudge a portrait of Baba Bhindrawale Ji also? or Baba Nand Singh Ji? In kalyug spirituality is dispised !

The truth is we stuff pictures of our wives in our wallets or have portraits of them with their goofy toothy grins staring back at us from the wall (or husbands), but Lord forbid if any moorakh fool should ever have a picture of his true father on the wall to remind him, or a picture of a sant Mahapursh – flog him to death !

[Pakandi baba]

as far as im aware (i could be wrong) no images/pictures of the Guru's were created in the times from Guru Nanak Dev Ji Mahraaj to Guru Gobind Singh Ji Mahraj.

If in the 150 so years after Guru Nanak Dev Ji no other Guru's attempted to paint Guru Nanak Dev Ji, then why have we?

again i may be wrong, but i think if the Guru Ji's didn't do it themselves which they easily could have, why have we?

Just some food for though....

160234[/snapback]

This is indeed a fact! Would go against waht Guru Nanak Preached. Same goes for all the other prophets of other faiths.

[randip singh]

<<<< Agree with you 100%.....what I find even more distasteful is pictures of Sants etc in Gurudwara's etc.  >>>>

Wondered when the bogey of the ‘Sant; would be raised yet again, which is normal in almost every thread these days. People cannot stand spirituality. Would you begrudge a portrait of Baba Bhindrawale Ji also? or Baba Nand Singh Ji?  In kalyug spirituality is dispised !

The truth is we stuff pictures of our wives in our wallets or have portraits of them with their goofy toothy grins staring back at us from the wall (or husbands), but Lord forbid if any moorakh fool should ever have a picture of his true father on the wall to remind him, or a picture of a sant Mahapursh – flog him to death !

160247[/snapback]

You wish to keep such pictures of Sants in your home to worship........ Carry on. They have no place in a Gurudwara in the worship sense as Pakhandhi is saying. I've seen people bow down to pictures of Sants in Gurudwara's and they are clearly in areas of worship.....not in areas say of a library of classroom.

However, for educational purposes, in Gurudwara's where many have museums and libraries, I think pictures are essential of people like Bhindranwala and Shaeeds to tell the story of Sikhism. Through pictures we gain an idea of our history, and what actually happened. Placing a picture to an event is brilliant.

Some pictures can be totally wrong in the historical sense....for example I saw one of Guru Gobind Singh ji with a Patiala style pugh....something that was not around during our Guru's time..........so we have to be careful. Images can distort as well as inform.

I think the context in which we are keeping some photo's and forms is more important.

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

Pictures ----> Statues/Idols ----> complete assimilation of sikhi into the vast ocean of hinduism as people like to call it.

sikhs are already hindus in 90% of what they do...just 10% more and the deal will be done.

in punjab (sikh women do karva chauth fasting, sikh families go climb up a mountain to do darshan of vaishno devi, wear strings on their wrists for good luck, wear stone rings for good luck from pundits and sadhus, perform havans etc even in taksal from what i've heard, do aarti in hazur sahib, etc.....on and on)

sikhs in the west are still ok but the sikhs in India are living up to what the indian constitution says, Sikhs are hindus.

[N30S1NGH]

my previous post on this topic:

burn all the guru's picture which shows virtues or history in one way or another???

it's not the pictures of guru's in artistic way that panth is vulnerable, panth is vulnerable to this fanatical approach of burning artistic pictures of guru's which shows virtues, history. If you can't see those virtues or history in the artistic drawing, sketches, pictures....don't blame the pictures, blame your blindness(agyanta)..just calm down mate, may be some day by blessing of guru when your debdristi opens (vision gets free from tunell) then you will know each artistic pictures have history, virtues behind it(directly fetched from janamsakhis) which artist shares. Art is a kalan itself, art can tell priceless words which this tongue cannot.

You think sri guru gobind singh used this waha bi approach of "lets burn pictures" because people may idol worship those pictures- NO

He instead gave gyan to sangat and told them, purpose behind the art. 68 Poets, artist from different backgrounds in Guru Maharaj darbar is an classic example of Guru Maharaj appreciation towards Arts, calligarphy, poetries.

I wonder what's insecure sikh wahabism is going to do next, idea of lets burn the pictures already floating in the air.. what next? - lets throw all the guru's maharaj shastars, relics, malas and so on forth oh lets throw them all out, didn't you know people might start worshipping them? what type of fussar(empty) approach is that?

No where, in Guru Maharaj teaching, pictures are encouraged or discouraged. Yes idol worship are discouraged. However, art(kalan) in Sikhi is quite welcome. Fact - 68 poets, artist stayed in Guru Maharaj darbar and appreciated.

You want to take things further , lets take things further, lets see the logic behind black and white sikhi:

Ok you want to ban the pictures because people are vulnerable to idolize them? ok fine ban them.

People are also vulnerable to "idiolize" - guru maharaj relics, shastars, mala's, chola, nishan sahibs, rumale of sri guru granth sahib, chaur sahib(in fact i have seen people bowing their head on chaur sahib), nagara, ganga sagar( i have seen lot of people matha taiking to ganga sagar when ganga sagar was shown in gurdwaras in toronto )????

You want to ban them too just because few handful of people are ignorant cannot see shabad guru is higher? This is my freind, is a extremely flaw approach can lead to talibanstic approach of sikhi, if promoted who knows? we will have your own set of taliban destroying anything and everything which looks idol to them.

Now coming back to the pictures, i see no difference between pictures and the items i have mentioned above. As i already said, pictures draws out inspirational sakhiya's, and virtues of our guru sahiban shown in act of picture (art expression) of an true artist.

You guys are against pictures period and wants to ban them or burn them. if you were against certain potrayal of picture or specific picture your post will make sense but since you are against ideology of pictures(artistic way of parchar fetched from janamsakhiyas, and virtues of guru) full stop, i found your approach to be flawed.

[BulldozerWarga$ingh]

''There should be no idols, statues, or religious pictures other than Shrines in a Gurdwara, because Sikhs worship only God, and they regard God as having no physical form''

Then why do we see pictures of Gurus (can't be Gurus because we have no perception of what they looked like)  All we should have are pictures of e.g Harmandir Sahib and many other scared Gurdwaras.

I've seen idols of Guru Nanak in some Gurdwaras and at a few homes.  This is ALL Bipran ki reet.  When the Hindu priests took over the Gurdwaras they installed statues of the hindu deities and began making illustrations. Some even have a picture of a hindu God beside them.  Yes Sikhs  respect all religions but we should not mix these together because , if Guru Nanak found this acceptable don't  you think he would have introduced it himself!

A  few Gurdawaras have banned these pictures but it should be made compulsory in ALL!

160144[/snapback]

Sorry to change the Topic of this subject, but somehow i think that ALL picture's of Guru Ji and ALL SGGS Ji's Saroop's should be kept in a Gurdwara and nowhere else...

Simply because there are people who keep Picture's of Guru Ji's at there houses and then Drink and do Kunjurpuna right infront of them :wub:

Bhul Chuk Maaf

[machete]

pics represent history and can inspire kids and others, they make it easier to convey and remeber stories and events. but their should not be any pics in the darbar sahib, total respect of guru ji should be carried out. but pics in other parts of gurdwara r only for inspiration not worship. waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh.