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Vegetarian Or Non Vegetarian?


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Milk is seriously gross. They feed dairy cows all sorts of rubbish. google for 'puss in milk' and read about the rubbish contained in milk.

Eggs you get in shops are not fertilised so they are just a byproduct of hens. Unfertilised eggs will never hatch into chicks.

Eat what you want. Who cares. There is no religious reason to avoid meat or to eat it.

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Hey meat haters. Please do aarth of the Gurbani tuks and other historical tuks I posted. Please do aarth of them and see what they say. Kurtas is right, brahmanism has taken over. Derawalas are the best at supporting this stuff. Do these people who have never ever read Gurbani with aarth know more than the great Gurmukhs who participated in the formation of the Rehat Maryada? Can any of you do aarth of Gurbani?? Or are you guys bunch of copy paste from other sites?? If you can't then who are you to judge if it is allowed or not. Guru Nanak Ji wasn't Sikh?? Since Guru Nanak Ji cooked meat in kurukshater and ate it?? And by the way, it was a deer. Maybe none of you knew that humans are made to eat both. Vegetables and meat. Look at the contruction of their teeth. So stop talking <admin-profanity filter activated>. If you don't want to eat it, then don't. No one forces you. Don't make it into an issue. It wasn't before deras under brahman influence sprung up. Also, stop following dehdharis. Follow Gurmat. Please. For once. Ever heard of what happened between Tat Khalsa and Bandai Khalsa?? Don't want to be in that situation again. Enjoy the Mahparsaade.

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Still Researching this issue myself but a Question for those who support vegetarianism. Why would Guru Gobind Singh Ji forbid Halal if you arent ment to eat meat anyway? Surely Guru Ji would have forbid all forms of meat!

Sorry If I have caused Offence!

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Milk is an animal product, as are eggs. So both are NOT vegan. But vegetarian? There are different types of vegetarian. lacto-vegetarians drink milk and milk products, but not egg. ovo-vegetarians eat egg, but not milk. lacto-ovo-vegetarians eat milk products and eggs. Vegans eat neither.

So it's really your choice. Unfortunately, there is no set rule that specifies milk or eggs and defines them as one or the other.

yeah.. diet and how your go about it is really up to you, different circumstances and backgrounds require different standards. But you would be surprised at what how many products you use everyday have/or been processed with animal products.

HAHA, people who think that we supposed to eat meat including fish and eggs are foolish and wimps because they are running away from the truth b/c they cant handel the truth.

Here is are some points to prove to those wimps about da truth.

REHAT

ku~Tw hu~kw crs qmwkU ] gWjw topI qwVI KwkU ] ien kI Er n kbhU dykY ] rihqvMq so isMG ivsyKY ]

kut(h)aa hukaa charas thamaakoo || gaa(n)jaa ttopee thaarree khaakoo || ein kee our n kabehoo dhaekai || rehithava(n)th so si(n)gh visaekhai ||

Meat, opium, drugs and tobacco. Ganja, wearing hats, another's woman and alcohol. He who never even gazes at these evils. Recognise them as my disciplined Singh.

Rehatnama Bhai Desa Singh

GURBANI

sIlu sMjmu suc BMnI Kwxw Kwju Ahwju ]

seel sa(n)jam such bha(n)nee khaanaa khaaj ahaaj ||

Humility, self-control and purity have run away; people eat the uneatable, forbidden food.

im not gonna spend an hour posting stuff so if u want more proof jus say so...

just go to sikhitomax.com and go to rehat

sry im not to prove khlsa4ever but the bindy bains kid

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Milk is an animal product, as are eggs. So both are NOT vegan. But vegetarian? There are different types of vegetarian. lacto-vegetarians drink milk and milk products, but not egg. ovo-vegetarians eat egg, but not milk. lacto-ovo-vegetarians eat milk products and eggs. Vegans eat neither.

So it's really your choice. Unfortunately, there is no set rule that specifies milk or eggs and defines them as one or the other.

yeah.. diet and how your go about it is really up to you, different circumstances and backgrounds require different standards. But you would be surprised at what how many products you use everyday have/or been processed with animal products.

HAHA, people who think that we supposed to eat meat including fish and eggs are foolish and wimps because they are running away from the truth b/c they cant handel the truth.

Here is are some points to prove to those wimps about da truth.

REHAT

ku~Tw hu~kw crs qmwkU ] gWjw topI qwVI KwkU ] ien kI Er n kbhU dykY ] rihqvMq so isMG ivsyKY ]

kut(h)aa hukaa charas thamaakoo || gaa(n)jaa ttopee thaarree khaakoo || ein kee our n kabehoo dhaekai || rehithava(n)th so si(n)gh visaekhai ||

Meat, opium, drugs and tobacco. Ganja, wearing hats, another's woman and alcohol. He who never even gazes at these evils. Recognise them as my disciplined Singh.

Rehatnama Bhai Desa Singh

GURBANI

sIlu sMjmu suc BMnI Kwxw Kwju Ahwju ]

seel sa(n)jam such bha(n)nee khaanaa khaaj ahaaj ||

Humility, self-control and purity have run away; people eat the uneatable, forbidden food.

im not gonna spend an hour posting stuff so if u want more proof jus say so...

just go to sikhitomax.com and go to rehat

sry im not to prove khlsa4ever but the bindy bains kid

Stop misinterpreting Gurbani or consider yourself RSSS. Rastrya Swayum Sevak Sung! Want to be labelled that??

Kutha = Halal

Who is Sikhitothemax???

Is it Akaal Takht??

Is it Guru??

It is a website. Simple as that.

Can you interpret Gurbani yourself??

Or do you rely on others??

If you rely on others, then that means you don't understand Gurbani yourself which means that you should not be the judge. Safe?

Read the Gurbani Shabads I posted. That says something else. Suraj Parkash which taksal does katha of says something else about not eating meat. mehma Parkash also says something other than not eating meat. If Guru says it is ok then who are you to say it is not ok and the person not eating is nonSikh?? Are you another narinder grewal wanna be?? Meaning another Guru wanna be??

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THA TRUTH HURTZ!!!!!

"The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom. What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables? What leads to sin? It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering. Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night. They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom. O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people? They cannot answer, or even understand what is said. They alone are blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes in their hearts. They are produced from the blood of their mothers and fathers, but they do not eat fish or meat." - Guru Granth Sahib (Page 1289)

I got this quote from this website: www.sikhphilosophy.net from a guy name 'J.A.T.T' on that site.

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Waheguroo jee ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo jee kee Fateh!

Why is that every time a topic like this opens, always someone named "Jatt" or a reference to someone named "Jatt" or a site "Jattworld" or whatever comes into play?

Jeez people, can't we just refer SGGSjee directly? use our OWN brains? Not refer to some damn Jatt every single time!!!

Waheguroo jee ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo jee kee Fateh!

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Waheguroo jee ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo jee kee Fateh!

Why is that every time a topic like this opens, always someone named "Jatt" or a reference to someone named "Jatt" or a site "Jattworld" or whatever comes into play?

Jeez people, can't we just refer SGGSjee directly? use our OWN brains? Not refer to some damn Jatt every single time!!!

Waheguroo jee ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo jee kee Fateh!

LOL.gif

Maybe Jattz know their Sikhi well? :lol:

But yo, that quote I posted came straight from SGGS Ji tho.

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woah is this a joke?????

next ull be saying we can cut our hair as well

we should NEVER in any circumstances eat meat. there is no such thing as a meat eating sikh

if u eat meat u are not a sikh

jhatka is still meat so is still massive manmat

why do people who cant control their weak minds and their greed for materialistic satisfaction always try and defend themselves by making up a load of rubbish?

i feel sorry for all those who call themselves sikhs and then put meat into their mouths

how disgusting. eating dead animals. not gurmat

there is only the panj pyareh. theres no your panj or my panj

just one panj with one rehit

the rehit includes eating meat is a bujjar kurehit

what a joke.oa

I think all your points were tackled in another debate about meat on another site:

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"To resolve this issue our Guru's told meat eating Sikhs to eat Jhatka, or meat killed in one blow."

Jhatka is a cultural practice and has nothing to do with sikhs. I want to see a quote from the GGS ji regarding this point because the method of killing with one blow was said to be used as a last resort by guru ji.

Not once did any of the Gurus eat for pleasure. Guru Gobind Singh ji killed a horse once to feed his army as no other food was available, time was approaching and moghuls were drawing closer. The Guru's had pure souls they never consumed meat simply for the taste of it. To imply that is an insult. Guru Gobind Singh ji's connection with the almighty was so pure that he was able to bestow the animals soul with mukhti [salvation] so it can carry on with its spiritual journey towards God in it's afterlife. Can we grant this blessing? No.

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I’m an Amritdhari Singh with flowing beard yet I eat meat. So does my dad (he is amritdhari), my granddad, and my great dad etc.

No one eats for pleasure. We eat to survive and operate at optimum level. AS a Sant-Siphai, and an amritdhari i am called to run at maximum physical, mental and spiritual levels. This therefore, for me includes meat in my diet.

Your argument goes into emotion. Some Guru’s did eat meat, and some didn’t. The Bedi’s and Sodhi’s descended from the Guru’s till eat meat today. This mukhti stuff is rubbish, cos Guruji woz not God. Only God can give mukhti. Guruji never tried to play God and give mukhti. Guruji = teacher, not a Mukhta.

Dasam Granth says

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SECTION

Here begins the Description of the Magnificence of Authority:

CHAUPAI

When I obtained the position of responsibility, I performed the religious acts to the best of my ability.

I went hunting various kinds of animals in the forest and killed bears, nilgais (blue bulls) and elks.1.

Then I left my home and went to place named Paonta.

I enjoyed my stay on the banks of Kalindri (Yamuna) and saw amusement of various kind2.

;

There I killed may lions, nilgais and bears.

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These animals were hunted for military training, helping villagers and food.

Jhatka has everything to to with Sikhism cos, Sikhism is based on Gurmatta, or a joint decision. If a joint decision was taken on accepting Jhatka, who are you to say it is cultural? It is a joint decision taken by the supreme Sikh authority the Akaal Takht, therefore it is a Sikh decision. You vegetarians are always trying to force your decisions on the rest of us. It makes me sick.

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Importantly, guru Har Rai was exceptionally known for his unique combination of powerfull strength and sweetness. He was one of the mightiest hunters but he too never killed the animals he chased and caught. They were taken to his yard and looked after very well. The Guru's have been blessing and granting mukhti to those souls whose karmic circle needed breaking, this included; Suggen thug- who killed people, kaudda Rakhsh- who indulged in cannibal activities and even butchers because these people needed saving.

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Yeah some Guru’s ate meat and some didn’t. There are loads of Sakhi’s about this.

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If one is on a vegetarian diet and yet uses this to boost the ego then this is an ignorant way of living. On the other hand eating meat only, will not enable one to realise God either. The bottom line is living as a vegetarian as part of your rehit along with Naam/simran is very beneficial in regards to ones spirituality. For instance, Baba Deep Singh ji was a vegetarian and lived on a diet of unripe Ber (a tropical fruit) and hand wrote four volumes of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, which were placed at four of the Takhats. At the age of 87, he went to war and defeated our oppressors.

Fresh fruit and veg was good enough for Baba deep singh ji who fought bravely even after death whilst holding his head in his arm on the battle

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Vegetarian life has nothing to do with spirituality because the Jyot of incarnation can go from animal, to plant and even rock. I read this on another site.

Pg 176 Sri Guru Granth Sahib

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ga-orhee gu-aarayree mehlaa 5.

Gauree Gwaarayree, Fifth Mehl:

ka-ee janam bha-ay keet patangaa.

In so many incarnations, you were a worm and an insect;

ka-ee janam gaj meen kurangaa.

in so many incarnations, you were an elephant, a fish and a deer.

ka-ee janam pankhee sarap ho-i-o.

In so many incarnations, you were a bird and a snake.

ka-ee janam haivar barikh jo-i-o. ||1||

In so many incarnations, you were yoked as an ox and a horse. ||1||

mil jagdees milan kee baree-aa.

Meet the Lord of the Universe - now is the time to meet Him.

chirankaal ih dayh sanjaree-aa. ||1|| rahaa-o.

After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you. ||1||Pause||

ka-ee janam sail gir kari-aa.

In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains;

ka-ee janam garabh hir khari-aa.

in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb;

ka-ee janam saakh kar upaa-i-aa.

in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves;

lakh cha-oraaseeh jon bharmaa-i-aa. ||2||

you wandered through 8.4 million incarnations. ||2||

saaDhsang bha-i-o janam paraapat.

Through the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human life.

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So this this claptrap that meat is less spiritual than plant is a made up stuff by plant eaters who wanna force their opinions on others and say that it is Sikhism.

Baba Deep Singh never forced his ideas on others and sat in Sangat with Jhatka eating Singh’s.

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Furthermore, being vegetarian is a lot safer than consuming rotten corpses of animals because those who do are in danger of taking on mad cow disease and its chicken, fish, pig, and turkey variants [bird flu] not forgetting that salmonella, E. coli, campylobacter, heart disease, strokes, high blood pressure, and cancer are additional dangers too!

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Rubbish. I am studying medicine and I know a little about biology. Some plants and beans actively try and poison you to prevent being eaten. You can get diseases as easily from vegetables as u can from meat.

Eaten too much dairy stuff, eating too much period gives you diseases. It’s a myth that Vegetarians are more healthy. It is a fact that those who eat healthy (meat or vegetable), are more healthy.

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For sake of clarification I will provide actual sentances from the Guru Granth Sahib ji that clearly acknowledge the issue of eating the flesh of another being:

Those mortals who consume marijuana, flesh and wine - no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. (SGGS p1337)

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A misquote and taken out of context. Maachlee = fish not flesh. Also flesh is not necessarily meat, in the consumed sense.

The sentence says :

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mukat padaarath paa-ee-ai thaak na avghat ghaat. ||231||

He obtains the treasure of liberation, and the difficult road to the Lord is not blocked. ||231||

kabeer ayk gharhee aaDhee gharee aaDhee hooN tay aaDh.

Kabeer, whether is is for an hour, half an hour, or half of that,

bhagtan saytee gostay jo keenay so laabh. ||232||

whatever it is, it is worthwhile to speak with the Holy. ||232||

kabeer bhaaNg maachhulee suraa paan jo jo paraanee khaaNhi.

Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine -

tirath barat naym kee-ay tay sabhai rasaatal jaaNhi. ||233||

no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. ||233||

neechay lo-in kar raha-o lay saajan ghat maahi.

Kabeer, I keep my eyes lowered, and enshrine my Friend within my heart.

sabh ras khayla-o pee-a sa-o kisee lakhaava-o naahi. ||234||

I enjoy all pleasures with my Beloved, but I do not let anyone else know. ||234||

aath jaam cha-usath gharee tu-a nirkhat rahai jee-o.

Twenty-four hours a day, every hour, my soul continues to look to You, O Lord.

neechay lo-in ki-o kara-o sabh ghat daykh-a-u pee-o. ||235||

Why should I keep my eyes lowered? I see my Beloved in every heart. ||235||

sun sakhee pee-a meh jee-o basai jee-a meh basai ke pee-o.

Listen, O my companions: my soul dwells in my Beloved, and my Beloved dwells in my soul.

jee-o pee-o boojha-o nahee ghat meh jee-o ke pee-o. ||236||

I realize that there is no difference between my soul and my Beloved; I cannot tell whether my soul or my Beloved dwells in my heart. ||236||

kabeer baaman guroo hai jagat kaa bhagtan kaa gur naahi.

Kabeer, the Brahmin may be the guru of the world, but he is not the Guru of the devotees.

arajh urajh kai pach moo-aa chaara-o baydahu maahi. ||237||

He rots and dies in the perplexities of the four Vedas. ||237||

har hai khaaNd rayt meh bikhree haathee chunee na jaa-ay.

The Lord is like sugar, scattered in the sand; the elephant cannot pick it up.

kahi kabeer gur bhalee bujhaa-ee keetee ho-ay kai khaa-ay. ||238||

Says Kabeer, the Guru has given me this sublime understanding: become an ant, and feed on it. ||238||

kabeer ja-o tuhi saaDh piramm kee sees kaat kar go-ay.

Kabeer, if you desire to play the game of love with the Lord, then cut off your head, and make it into a ball.

khaylat khaylat haal kar jo kichh ho-ay ta ho-ay. ||239||

Lose yourself in the play of it, and then whatever will be, will be. ||239||

kabeer ja-o tuhi saaDh piramm kee paakay saytee khayl.

Kabeer, if you desire to play the game of love with the Lord, play it with someone with committment.

kaachee sarsa-uN payl kai naa khal bha-ee na tayl. ||240||

Pressing the unripe mustard seeds produces neither oil nor flour. ||240||

dhooNdhat doleh anDh gat ar cheenat naahee sant.

Searching, the mortal stumbles like a blind person, and does not recognize the Saint.

kahi naamaa ki-o paa-ee-ai bin bhagtahu bhagvant. ||241||

Says Naam Dayv, how can one obtain the Lord God, without His devotee? ||241||

har so heeraa chhaad kai karahi aan kee aas.

Forsaking the Diamond of the Lord, the mortals put their hopes in another.

tay nar dojak jaahigay sat bhaakhai ravidaas. ||242||

Those people shall go to hell; Ravi Daas speaks the Truth. ||242||

kabeer ja-o garihu karahi ta Dharam kar naahee ta kar bairaag.

Kabeer, if you live the householder's life, then practice righteousness; otherwise, you might as well retire from the world.

bairaagee banDhan karai taa ko bado abhaag. ||243||

If someone renounces the world, and then gets involved in worldly entanglements, he shall suffer terrible misfortune. ||243||

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What this iz actually talking about is worldly entanglement. The rich who used to induldge in delicacies like fish, wine and marijuana were condemened.

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You kill living beings and worship lifeless things, at your very last moment, You will suffer terrible pain. (SGGS p332)

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More vegetarian spin. God you guys are unbelievable.

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ik-oNkaar satgur parsaad.

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

jeevat pitar na maanai ko-oo moo-ayN siraaDh karaahee.

He does not honor his ancestors while they are alive, but he holds feasts in their honor after they have died.

pitar bhee bapuray kaho ki-o paavahi ka-oo-aa kookar khaahee. ||1||

Tell me, how can his poor ancestors receive what the crows and the dogs have eaten up? ||1||

mo ka-o kusal bataavhu ko-ee.

If only someone would tell me what real happiness is!

kusal kusal kartay jag binsai kusal bhee kaisay ho-ee. ||1|| rahaa-o.

Speaking of happiness and joy, the world is perishing. How can happiness be found? ||1||Pause||

maatee kay kar dayvee dayvaa tis aagai jee-o dayhee.

Making gods and goddesses out of clay, people sacrifice living beings to them.

aisay pitar tumaaray kahee-ahi aapan kahi-aa na layhee. ||2||

Such are your dead ancestors, who cannot ask for what they want. ||2||

sarjee-o kaateh nirjee-o poojeh ant kaal ka-o bhaaree.

You murder living beings and worship lifeless things; at your very last moment, you shall suffer in terrible pain.

raam naam kee gat nahee jaanee bhai doobay sansaaree. ||3||

You do not know the value of the Lord's Name; you shall drown in the terrifying world-ocean. ||3||

dayvee dayvaa poojeh doleh paarbarahm nahee jaanaa.

You worship gods and goddesses, but you do not know the Supreme Lord God.

kahat kabeer akul nahee chayti-aa bikhi-aa si-o laptaanaa. ||4||1||45||

Says Kabeer, you have not remembered the Lord who has no ancestors; you are clinging to your corrupt ways. ||4||1||45||

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Actually Kabir is having a dig at Pandits (who were vegetarians), but used to give a Bali or sacrifice of animals to their Gods. Read the entire Ang. Nothing to do with meat. Everything to do with false religious practice. Sikhs are forbidden from eating ritually slaughtered meat anyway.

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Do not say that the Vedas are false, false are those who do not reflect. If in all is one god, then why does one kill the hen ? (SGGS p1350)

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More spin by vegetarian fanatics.

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parbhaatee.

Prabhaatee:

bayd katayb kahhu mat jhoothay jhoothaa jo na bichaarai.

Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false.

ja-o sabh meh ayk khudaa-ay kahat ha-o ta-o ki-o murgee maarai. ||1||

You say that the One Lord is in all, so why do you kill chickens? ||1||

mulaaN kahhu ni-aa-o khudaa-ee.

O Mullah, tell me: is this God's Justice?

tayray man kaa bharam na jaa-ee. ||1|| rahaa-o.

The doubts of your mind have not been dispelled. ||1||Pause||

pakar jee-o aani-aa dayh binaasee maatee ka-o bismil kee-aa.

You seize a living creature, and then bring it home and kill its body; you have killed only the clay.

jot saroop anaahat laagee kaho halaal ki-aa kee-aa. ||2||

The light of the soul passes into another form. So tell me, what have you killed? ||2||

ki-aa ujoo paak kee-aa muhu Dho-i-aa ki-aa maseet sir laa-i-aa.

And what good are your purifications? Why do you bother to wash your face? And why do you bother to bow your head in the mosque?

ja-o dil meh kapat nivaaj gujaarahu ki-aa haj kaabai jaa-i-aa. ||3||

Your heart is full of hypocrisy; what good are your prayers or your pilgrimage to Mecca? ||3||

tooN naapaak paak nahee soojhi-aa tis kaa maram na jaani-aa.

You are impure; you do not understand the Pure Lord. You do not know His Mystery.

kahi kabeer bhisat tay chookaa dojak si-o man maani-aa. ||4||4||

Says Kabeer, you have missed out on paradise; your mind is set on hell. ||4||4||

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This time Kabir ji is having a dig at Mullahs who would ritually sacrifice chickens. Not having a dig at meat eaters.

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Bhagat Kabir says, that the best food is eating kichree (daal/lentils) where nectar sweet is the salt. You eat hunted meat, but which animal is willing to have their head cut ? (SGGS p137

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Even more spin and selective quoting. Lets put this in context.

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;

oraa gar paanee bha-i-aa jaa-ay mili-o dhal kool. ||177||

The hail-stone has melted into water, and flowed into the ocean. ||177||

;

kabeeraa Dhoor sakayl kai puree-aa baaNDhee dayh.

Kabeer, the body is a pile of dust, collected and packed together.

divas chaar ko paykhnaa ant khayh kee khayh. ||178||

It is a show which lasts for only a few days, and then dust returns to dust. ||178||

kabeer sooraj chaaNd kai udai bha-ee sabh dayh.

Kabeer, bodies are like the rising and setting of the sun and the moon.

gur gobind kay bin milay palat bha-ee sabh khayh. ||179||

Without meeting the Guru, the Lord of the Universe, they are all reduced to dust again. ||179||

jah anbha-o tah bhai nahee jah bha-o tah har naahi.

Where the Fearless Lord is, there is no fear; where there is fear, the Lord is not there.

2405;

kahi-o kabeer bichaar kai sant sunhu man maahi. ||180||

Kabeer speaks after careful consideration; hear this, O Saints, in your minds. ||180||

;

kabeer jinahu kichhoo jaani-aa nahee tin sukh need bihaa-ay.

Kabeer, those who do not know anything, pass their lives in peaceful sleep.

hamhu jo boojhaa boojhnaa pooree paree balaa-ay. ||181||

But I have understood the riddle; I am faced with all sorts of troubles. ||181||

laagee chot maramm kee rahi-o kabeeraa tha-ur. ||182||

Struck by the Mystery of God, Kabeer remains silent. ||182||

kabeer chot suhaylee sayl kee laagat lay-ay usaas.

Kabeer, the stroke of a lance is easy to bear; it takes away the breath.

chot sahaarai sabad kee taas guroo mai daas. ||183||

But one who endures the stroke of the Word of the Shabad is the Guru, and I am his slave. ||183||

kabeer mulaaN munaaray ki-aa chadheh saaN-ee na bahraa ho-ay.

Kabeer: O Mullah, why do you climb to the top of the minaret? The Lord is not hard of hearing.

jaa kaaran tooN baaNg deh dil hee bheetar jo-ay. ||184||

Look within your own heart for the One, for whose sake you shout your prayers. ||184||

saykh sabooree baahraa ki-aa haj kaabay jaa-ay.

Why does the Shaykh bother to go on pilgrimage to Mecca, if he is not content with himself?

kabeer jaa kee dil saabat nahee taa ka-o kahaaN khudaa-ay. ||185||

Kabeer, one whose heart is not healthy and whole - how can he attain his Lord? ||185||

kabeer alah kee kar bandagee jih simrat dukh jaa-ay.

Kabeer, worship the Lord Allah; meditating in remembrance on Him, troubles and pains depart.

dil meh saaN-ee pargatai bujhai balantee naaN-ay. ||186||

The Lord shall be revealed within your own heart, and the burning fire within shall be extinguished by His Name. ||186||

kabeer joree kee-ay julam hai kahtaa naa-o halaal.

Kabeer, to use force is tyranny, even if you call it legal.

daftar laykhaa maaNgee-ai tab ho-igo ka-un havaal. ||187||

When your account is called for in the Court of the Lord, what will your condition be then? ||187||

kabeer khoob khaanaa kheechree jaa meh amrit lon.

Kabeer, the dinner of beans and rice is excellent, if it is flavored with salt.

hayraa rotee kaarnay galaa kataavai ka-un. ||188||

Who would cut his throat, to have meat with his bread? ||188||

kabeer gur laagaa tab jaanee-ai mitai moh tan taap.

Kabeer, one is known to have been touched by the Guru, only when his emotional attachment and physical illnesses are eradicated.

harakh sog daajhai nahee tab har aapeh aap. ||189||

He is not burned by pleasure or pain, and so he becomes the Lord Himself. ||189||

kabeer raam kahan meh bhayd hai taa meh ayk bichaar.

Kabeer, it does make a difference, how you chant the Lord's Name, 'Raam'. This is something to consider.

so-ee raam sabhai kaheh so-ee ka-utakhaar. ||190||

Everyone uses the same word for the son of Dasrath and the Wondrous Lord. ||190||

बिबेक ॥

kabeer raamai raam kaho kahibay maahi bibayk.

Kabeer, use the word 'Raam', only to speak of the All-pervading Lord. You must make that distinction.

ayk anaykeh mil ga-i-aa ayk samaanaa ayk. ||191||

One 'Raam' is pervading everywhere, while the other is contained only in himself. ||191||

kabeer jaa ghar saaDh na sayvee-ah har kee sayvaa naahi.

Kabeer, those houses in which neither the Holy nor the Lord are served -

tay ghar marhat saarkhay bhoot baseh tin maahi. ||192||

those houses are like cremation grounds; demons dwell within them. ||192||

kabeer goongaa hoo-aa baavraa bahraa hoo-aa kaan.

Kabeer, I have become mute, insane and deaf.

paavhu tay pingul bha-i-aa maari-aa satgur baan. ||193||

I am crippled - the True Guru has pierced me with His Arrow. ||193||

kabeer satgur soormay baahi-aa baan jo ayk.

Kabeer, the True Guru, the Spiritual Warrior, has shot me with His Arrow.

laagat hee bhu-ay gir pari-aa paraa karayjay chhayk. ||194||

As soon as it struck me, I fell to the ground, with a hole in my heart. ||194||

kabeer nirmal boond akaas kee par ga-ee bhoom bikaar.

Kabeer, the pure drop of water falls from the sky, onto the dirty ground.

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It is plain for even a FOOL to see that this ang is about tyranny and exploitation. Not Meat.

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Avarice is a dog, falsehood the sweeper and cheating the eating of meat.

(Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Sri Raag p15)

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Unbelievable amount of misquoting by you. Let me put this in its right phrase.

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sireeraag mehlaa 1.

Siree Raag, First Mehl:

lab kutaa koorh choohrhaa thag khaaDhaa murdaar.

Greed is a dog; falsehood is a filthy street-sweeper. Cheating is eating a rotting carcass.

par nindaa par mal mukh suDhee agan kroDh chandaal.

Slandering others is putting the filth of others into your own mouth. The fire of anger is the outcaste who burns dead bodies at the crematorium.

ras kas aap salaahnaa ay karam mayray kartaar. ||1||

I am caught in these tastes and flavors, and in self-conceited praise. These are my actions, O my Creator! ||1||

;

baabaa bolee-ai pat ho-ay.

O Baba, speak only that which will bring you honor.

ootam say dar ootam kahee-ahi neech karam bahi ro-ay. ||1|| rahaa-o.

They alone are good, who are judged good at the Lord's Door. Those with bad karma can only sit and weep. ||1||Pause||

;

ras su-inaa ras rupaa kaaman ras parmal kee vaas.

The pleasures of gold and silver, the pleasures of women, the pleasure of the fragrance of sandalwood,

ras ghorhay ras sayjaa mandar ras meethaa ras maas.

the pleasure of horses, the pleasure of a soft bed in a palace, the pleasure of sweet treats and the pleasure of hearty meals -

aytay ras sareer kay kai ghat naam nivaas. ||2||

these pleasures of the human body are so numerous; how can the Naam, the Name of the Lord, find its dwelling in the heart? ||2||

jit boli-ai pat paa-ee-ai so boli-aa parvaan.

Those words are acceptable, which, when spoken, bring honor.

fikaa bol viguchnaa sun moorakh man ajaan.

Harsh words bring only grief. Listen, O foolish and ignorant mind!

jo tis bhaaveh say bhalay hor ke kahan vakhaan. ||3||

Those who are pleasing to Him are good. What else is there to be said? ||3||

tin mat tin pat tin Dhan palai jin hirdai rahi-aa samaa-ay.

Wisdom, honor and wealth are in the laps of those whose hearts remain permeated with the Lord.

tin kaa ki-aa salaahnaa avar su-aali-o kaa-ay.

What praise can be offered to them? What other adornments can be bestowed upon them?

naanak nadree baahray raacheh daan na naa-ay. ||4||4||

O Nanak, those who lack the Lord's Glance of Grace cherish neither charity nor the Lord's Name. ||4||4||

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This ang is about slander and those people who lie. Murdaar = Dead Human or person who has been murdered and not meat. It does not even mean carcass.

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Falsehood is my dagger and to eat by defrauding is meat.

(Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Sri Raaj p24)

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Spin, Spin , and more Spin. You guys won’t stop at any lies to push your view.

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sireeraag mehlaa 1 ghar 4.

Siree Raag, First Mehl, Fourth House:

ayk su-aan du-ay su-aanee naal.

The dogs of greed are with me.

bhalkay bha-ukahi sadaa ba-i-aal.

In the early morning, they continually bark at the wind.

koorh chhuraa muthaa murdaar.

Falsehood is my dagger; through deception, I eat the carcasses of the dead.

Dhaanak roop rahaa kartaar. ||1||

I live as a wild hunter, O Creator! ||1||

mai pat kee pand na karnee kee kaar.

I have not followed good advice, nor have I done good deeds.

ha-o bigrhai roop rahaa bikraal.

I am deformed and horribly disfigured.

tayraa ayk naam taaray sansaar.

Your Name alone, Lord, saves the world.

mai ayhaa aas ayho aaDhaar. ||1|| rahaa-o.

This is my hope; this is my support. ||1||Pause||

mukh nindaa aakhaa din raat.

With my mouth I speak slander, day and night.

par ghar johee neech sanaat.

I spy on the houses of others-I am such a wretched low-life!

kaam kroDh tan vaseh chandaal.

Unfulfilled sexual desire and unresolved anger dwell in my body, like the outcasts who cremate the dead.

Dhaanak roop rahaa kartaar. ||2||

I live as a wild hunter, O Creator! ||2||

faahee surat malookee vays.

I make plans to trap others, although I appear gentle.

ha-o thagvaarhaa thagee days.

I am a robber-I rob the world.

kharaa si-aanaa bahutaa bhaar.

I am very clever-I carry loads of sin.

Dhaanak roop rahaa kartaar. ||3||

I live as a wild hunter, O Creator! ||3||

mai keetaa na jaataa haraamkhor.

I have not appreciated what You have done for me, Lord; I take from others and exploit them.

ha-o ki-aa muhu daysaa dusat chor.

What face shall I show You, Lord? I am a sneak and a thief.

naanak neech kahai beechaar.

Nanak describes the state of the lowly.

Dhaanak roop rahaa kartaar. ||4||29||

I live as a wild hunter, O Creator! ||4||29||

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Mudaar = Dead Human not meat.

This is about lieing cheating and falsehood, and not meat

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In this dark age of Kali Yuga, people have faces like dogs; They eat rotting dead bodies for food. (SGGS p1242) The Vars of Bhai Gurdas Ji are known as the 'kunji' (key) to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. // 31 pauree 9 : "Just because the Guru has saved the butcher,That does not mean that we can kill animals and eat them."

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Rotting dead bodies = murdaar and not meat.

Again lets put it in the right phrase:

Quote:

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salok mehlaa 1.

Shalok, First Mehl:

kal ho-ee kutay muhee khaaj ho-aa murdaar.

In this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, people have faces like dogs; they eat rotting carcasses for food.

koorh bol bol bha-ukanaa chookaa Dharam beechaar.

They bark and speak, telling only lies; all thought of righteousness has left them.

jin jeevandi-aa pat nahee mu-i-aa mandee so-ay.

Those who have no honor while alive, will have an evil reputation after they die.

likhi-aa hovai naankaa kartaa karay so ho-ay. ||1||

Whatever is predestined, happens, O Nanak; whatever the Creator does, comes to pass. ||1||

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This is not about meat at all but Guru is comparing people to dogs. The dog only cares about himself and is greedy, and they lie.

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Because these references are not often made aware of, they have simply been ignored. For most Sikhs it is more convenient to eat meat rather than avoid it.

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Runbbish and pure crap. We are not Jains. We respect all life forms including plants to. There is nothing in Sikhism about avoiding meat.

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By the way, plants are definately a lower life form than animals therefore the consequences of eating them is less severe. Sikhs believe in reincarnation and order of life form is:

1-plants 2-animals 3-humans... this is because of difference in capabilities between the three for instance; a plant does not have a heart or ability to express emotion, most of their movement is restricted unlike animals who look for partners to mate with and whimper when a loved one dies. Even when a cow dies after its death its legs still kick for freedom and its eyes roll around in its head...flippin' sick...we all know human beings have the highest capability therefore it is in this form god allows us to aim to be in chardi kala-highest spiritual level .

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More rubbish. The caurasi lakh joon before we become man can be animal, plant, or mineral. God does not differentiate between these. He only thinks of man of capable of reaching spirituality and therefore allows this human birth in one in 84 million. Just because you cannot see a plant kick or scream, it shows your ignorance. Plants Breath, They eat, they reproduce, the wither if you cruel to them, the flourish if you are nice to them. They respond to certain music. For you not to acknowledge that shows ignorance.

Even Guru says how plants suffer:

Page 143

mehlaa 1.

First Mehl:

vaykh je mithaa kati-aa kat kut baDhaa paa-ay.

Look, and see how the sugar-cane is cut down. After cutting away its branches, its feet are bound together into bundles,

khundhaa andar rakh kai dayn so mal sajaa-ay.

and then, it is placed between the wooden rollers and crushed.

ras kas tatar paa-ee-ai tapai tai villaa-ay.

What punishment is inflicted upon it! Its juice is extracted and placed in the cauldron; as it is heated, it groans and cries out.

bhee so fog samaalee-ai dichai ag jaalaa-ay.

And then, the crushed cane is collected and burnt in the fire below.

naanak mithai patree-ai vaykhhu lokaa aa-ay. ||2||

Nanak: come, people, and see how the sweet sugar-cane is treated! ||2||

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As sikhs we are supposed to respect all of man kind, respect gods creation including nature around us which means eating only what is necarssary. I would rather do this than be a walking graveyard although I still make chicken curry for my bro .

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You may not wanna eat meat, well that’s fine, but eatin and not eatin is nuffin to do wiv Sikhism. Period. To start talking that stuff is sheer ignorance.

Final word on this and people like you who are sooooo egotistical it makes me wanna puke:

Quote:

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mehlaa 1.

First Mehl:

maas maas kar moorakh jhagrhay gi-aan Dhi-aan nahee jaanai.

The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom.

ka-un maas ka-un saag kahaavai kis meh paap samaanay.

What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables? What leads to sin?

gaiNdaa maar hom jag kee-ay dayviti-aa kee baanay.

It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering.

maas chhod bais nak pakrheh raatee maanas khaanay.

Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night.

farh kar lokaaN no dikhlaavahi gi-aan Dhi-aan nahee soojhai.

They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom.

naanak anDhay si-o ki-aa kahee-ai kahai na kahi-aa boojhai.

O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people? They cannot answer, or even understand what is said.

anDhaa so-ay je anDh kamaavai tis ridai se lochan naahee.

They alone are blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes in their hearts.

maat pitaa kee rakat nipannay machhee maas na khaaNhee.

They are produced from the blood of their mothers and fathers, but they do not eat fish or meat.

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also read;

www.sikhs.org/meat.htm

Edited by: VicBahra at: 4/25/06 11:26 pm

Note in particular how Bani only treats human life as sacred and draws to difference between animal, plant and rock.

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Dear "khalistan_the_only_answer" if you are going to quote Bhai Desa Singh, please do so in full and not simply choose the bits YOU like (much like most fanatical sikh organisations today).

The same rehitnama clearly mentions it is acceptable to eat a jhatka'ed Goat, just not in the Langar. It also mentions that before war, one may have alcohol, but otherwise not to even take its name.

For the record, I'm a vegetarian, but the Gurus word is final and let's deal with that - if we are going to start bringing up issues like this shabd accordingly this or that translation indicates it is wrong to eat meat, then yes the step is going to be cut your kesh (in response to the SHOUTING Singhni above), since by YOUR logic, the next step will be to look at shabds which indicate that cutting hair or growing it are all acceptable (these can be found in Bhagat Bani and also in the Dasam Granth)...so it's not Meat-eaters who will destroy Sikhi, it YOU fanatical vegetarian types!!!

Get a life and move on.

Admin, benti again, lock this nonsense down and let move on to more important things.

Dear "khalistan_the_only_answer" if you are going to quote Bhai Desa Singh, please do so in full and not simply choose the bits YOU like (much like most fanatical sikh organisations today).

The same rehitnama clearly mentions it is acceptable to eat a jhatka'ed Goat, just not in the Langar. It also mentions that before war, one may have alcohol, but otherwise not to even take its name.

For the record, I'm a vegetarian, but the Gurus word is final and let's deal with that - if we are going to start bringing up issues like this shabd accordingly this or that translation indicates it is wrong to eat meat, then yes the step is going to be cut your kesh (in response to the SHOUTING Singhni above), since by YOUR logic, the next step will be to look at shabds which indicate that cutting hair or growing it are all acceptable (these can be found in Bhagat Bani and also in the Dasam Granth)...so it's not Meat-eaters who will destroy Sikhi, it YOU fanatical vegetarian types!!!

Get a life and move on.

Admin, benti again, lock this nonsense down and let move on to more important things.

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