Kirpan And Aeroplane

[advice1]

If in the future, it is decided that dastaars are not acceptable for flights, and are banned (not so outlandish, seeing as how France has banned dastaars in schools, etc) would all of us Sikhs then also go bare headed on to planes? We can justify our weakness with excuses that we are doing it for the safety of others, etc. but the truth is that taking off the kirpan is a weakness.

What security risk does a kirpan pose in comparison to some psycho breaking one of those liqour bottles and using that as a weapon?

The total ban on the kirpan is wrong and when we take off our kirpans, we are making a compromise in Gurmat. Guru Sahib is always forgiving, but that still doesn't make it right.

[MAX]

If in the future, it is decided that dastaars are not acceptable for flights, and are banned (not so outlandish, seeing as how France has banned dastaars in schools, etc) would all of us Sikhs then also go bare headed on to planes? We can justify our weakness with excuses that we are doing it for the safety of others, etc. but the truth is that taking off the kirpan is a weakness.

What security risk does a kirpan pose in comparison to some psycho breaking one of those liqour bottles and using that as a weapon?

The total ban on the kirpan is wrong and when we take off our kirpans, we are making a compromise in Gurmat. Guru Sahib is always forgiving, but that still doesn't make it right.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji once sent two of his Khalsa to a renowned Hindu center of learning in order to be educated and to bring back copies of specific scriptures (the Guru translated a number of Hindu texts including the Upanishads). These two Khalsa made there way to the Hindu temple and came back empty handed.

The Guru asked why this was.

The two Khalsa said "Guru-ji; the Pandits at the temple would not allow us to use their texts due to our appearance".

The Guru replied by saying:

"You are walking into a territory where a certain code of conduct is required. You cannot march into someone else's world and make demands. You must relinquish your ego and show these men the respect that they deserve for the service they will provide you."

And so, the two Khalsa wore their hair down like the Pandits and made their way back to the Hindu temple. They did the rituals that they required and showed the proper respect.

They returned with the information and scriptures.

The country of France has its own domestic policy. They attempted to prevent anti-religious attacks in public places (a noble goal) by ensuring that no-one displayed any signs that were evident of their faith (a little naive, unfortunately).

Clothing has never been an issue on planes; with all the different and varied cultures from Asia to Africa to South America, everyone is allowed to wear what they wish. But you must understand the practical difference between wearing a turban...and carrying a weapon. Unlike a glass bottle, the blade was designed to be a weapon of combat with the ability to kill.

Sometimes, a little common sense can go a long way.

[advice1]

Where did you get this Nirmala story? What's the source? Do you really think Guru Sahib would tell his Singhs to give up their rehits and worship the Hindu way just to get Hindu education? Maybe you should use some of that "common sense" you talk about.

As for your kirpan argument: I've heard this stuff from anti-Kirpan people but first time I'm hearing it from a Sikh. That's what the anti-Kirpan side was arguing in the Supreme Court of Canada case, that the kirpan is a weapon. Anything can be a weapon. The kirpan is an article of faith. The ban on the kirpan makes no sense. What damage can a small 4" kirpan do that a bottle or rock or some other object can't do? Mayybe you can justify a ban on 3ft kirpans, but a total ban on any size is not justifiable.

At any rate, it is a dhill to remove kirpans or any other kakaars. Like I said, perhaps Guru Sahib forgives it with ardaas, but it doesn't make it OK.

[MAX]

Where did you get this Nirmala story? What's the source? Do you really think Guru Sahib would tell his Singhs to give up their rehits and worship the Hindu way just to get Hindu education? Maybe you should use some of that "common sense" you talk about.

Like you said; it's the "Nirmala story". Of course, I don't think that their insistence on turning it into a completely new sect was the right choice (people will follow almost anything, won't they? ), but the moral behind the story of understanding that humility and respect are not beyond anyone; least of all the Khalsa who are supposed to have suppressed the demon of ego and embrace the virtue of being humble.

As for your kirpan argument: I've heard this stuff from anti-Kirpan people but first time I'm hearing it from a Sikh. That's what the anti-Kirpan side was arguing in the Supreme Court of Canada case, that the kirpan is a weapon. Anything can be a weapon. The kirpan is an article of faith. The ban on the kirpan makes no sense. What damage can a small 4" kirpan do that a bottle or rock or some other object can't do? Mayybe you can justify a ban on 3ft kirpans, but a total ban on any size is not justifiable.

Being a Sikkh isn't supposed to make me closed minded and bound by illogical dogma; it is supposed to set me free and allow me to think with clarity and insight. And doing this does not somehow make me "anti-kirpan". Calling me that is just...rude

----

AIRPORT DUDE

Uh...I'm sorry sir, but blades aren't allowed on board.

PASSANGER

Oh no, it's okay. You see, I'm a Sikkh.

AIRPORT DUDE

(flicks through regulations)

Ah, okay, yeah. You're a Sikkh, huh? Yeah, you can come on board.

PASSENGER

Hehehe...what a gullible <banned word filter activated>. He actually bought that "I'm a Sikkh" line.

Now to have some fun...

----

I'm sure I don't have to make the security loophole any more evident.

At any rate, it is a dhill to remove kirpans or any other kakaars. Like I said, perhaps Guru Sahib forgives it with ardaas, but it doesn't make it OK.

"Guru sahib forgives it with ardaas"? What are we; Chrisitans who believe that murder is cool as long as you go to confessions? No such magic is promoted in Gurbani, I'm afraid. Virtue comes from what you do...not what you wear. To idolise these fabrics and metals of maya in such a way is to forget the central concept of 'Ek Onkar'.

Sikkhism was not designed as an excuse to trade one form of dogma for another :TH:

[god is great]

gurfateh ji

u cud wrap your kirpan in your beard like my friend does it works!!!!haha :T: (bt u gta have a long beard obviously)

[MAX]

gurfateh ji

u cud wrap your kirpan in your beard like my friend does it works!!!!haha :T: (bt u gta have a long beard obviously)

Dude, you just made my day

[Lionchild]

well i would not remove my kirpan... but those mini kirpans are banned to i guess... thus why i didnt fly to vancouver this spring

[Guest PRITAM SINGH KHALSA]

well i would not remove my kirpan... but those mini kirpans are banned to i guess... thus why i didnt fly to vancouver this spring

Your not even mandated to wear one. Plus with the discussion before, you would misuse it, and metaphorically have already.

We dont want a Muslim wearing one as a Sikh and boarding a plane.

Right now we already get looked at like a terrorist when I went to Arizona I had everyone staring. When I went to Oregon I had a guy almost fall on me from passing out. He probably thought thisa was his last flight on Earth.{ What a paranoid freak}

I dont want anyone misusing a Kirpan so I put my Kirpans both on gaatras and all of the kirpans in my turban in my carry on and knew why we should do that and felt like its the only time we should. It shows we arent terrorist to the Government, which is the right thing to do.

[Lionchild]

We dont want a Muslim wearing one as a Sikh and boarding a plane.

well thanks for enforcing a wrong image of us sikhs... thanks alot... on top of that, you slander muslims...

[Guest PRITAM SINGH KHALSA]

Youre right I mean a Muslim terrorist.

Good point :TH: