Kirpan And Aeroplane

[Lionchild]

Youre right I mean a Muslim terrorist.

Good point :TH:

i saw your thread "just wait this thread will be deleted".. haha your hilarious...

pawed XD XD owned XD XD .... XD XD....

[chandanjit kaur]

WJKK WJKF

well......wearin a kirpan on da airplane...or takin off da kirpan before gettin no da airplane....its all our opinion and we cant be sure which ones rite because then only guru ji knows..and even if u take off ur kirpan....guru ji will understand why if u tell HIM....i mean....ur jus helping others not to be afraid rite?wat if people see ur kirpan on da airplane and start panicking and screaming!!!.....aint good...then agen kirpan should be worn all da time.....all this is up to u as an individual and then also up to guru ji....do ardas and take hukamnama b4 goin to da airport so you really know da hukam uv guru ji :TH: bhul chuk muaf...

WJKK WJKF

[buddasingh]

If in the future, it is decided that dastaars are not acceptable for flights, and are banned (not so outlandish, seeing as how France has banned dastaars in schools, etc) would all of us Sikhs then also go bare headed on to planes? We can justify our weakness with excuses that we are doing it for the safety of others, etc. but the truth is that taking off the kirpan is a weakness.

What security risk does a kirpan pose in comparison to some psycho breaking one of those liqour bottles and using that as a weapon?

The total ban on the kirpan is wrong and when we take off our kirpans, we are making a compromise in Gurmat. Guru Sahib is always forgiving, but that still doesn't make it right.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji once sent two of his Khalsa to a renowned Hindu center of learning in order to be educated and to bring back copies of specific scriptures (the Guru translated a number of Hindu texts including the Upanishads). These two Khalsa made there way to the Hindu temple and came back empty handed.

The Guru asked why this was.

The two Khalsa said "Guru-ji; the Pandits at the temple would not allow us to use their texts due to our appearance".

The Guru replied by saying:

"You are walking into a territory where a certain code of conduct is required. You cannot march into someone else's world and make demands. You must relinquish your ego and show these men the respect that they deserve for the service they will provide you."

And so, the two Khalsa wore their hair down like the Pandits and made their way back to the Hindu temple. They did the rituals that they required and showed the proper respect.

They returned with the information and scriptures.

The country of France has its own domestic policy. They attempted to prevent anti-religious attacks in public places (a noble goal) by ensuring that no-one displayed any signs that were evident of their faith (a little naive, unfortunately).

Clothing has never been an issue on planes; with all the different and varied cultures from Asia to Africa to South America, everyone is allowed to wear what they wish. But you must understand the practical difference between wearing a turban...and carrying a weapon. Unlike a glass bottle, the blade was designed to be a weapon of combat with the ability to kill.

Sometimes, a little common sense can go a long way.

Uh Max...

Ever heard of box cutters?

Sometimes, more than a little common sense can go a longer way.

[buddasingh]

Clothing has never been an issue on planes; with all the different and varied cultures from Asia to Africa to South America, everyone is allowed to wear what they wish. But you must understand the practical difference between wearing a turban...and carrying a weapon. Unlike a glass bottle, the blade was designed to be a weapon of combat with the ability to kill.

Sometimes, a little common sense can go a long way.

Terrorist George:

Hey Bob we could get past security issues by breaking a glass liquor bottle and using it as a weapon.

Terrorist Bob:

No George, can’t do. I saw a post by Max once saying that a glass bottle is not designed to be a weapon of combat with the ability to kill so it would be unfair to surprise people.

Terrorist George:

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

Mr. MAX, you may want to check the date on the Nirmalas being sent to Benares...cause me thinks it was before the Khalsa was founded and hence, the requirements of the Kirpan were not yet mandated to the Sikhs (Sikh Encyclopedia states this was between 1685-1688, before 1699).

[MAX]

Uh Max...

Ever heard of box cutters?

Sometimes, more than a little common sense can go a longer way.

Haha...no, you're absolutely right

The idea that butane lighters are still allowed to go on board, etc due to not wanting to tarnish relations with tobacco companies @ But this is a very awkward situation, unless of course we can find a way to edicate everyone in the Western world about precisely what a Khalsa is? We can't blame them if they are scared out of their wits at seeing what they believe to be a theratening person. They're ignorant - of course they are. But we should be doing something to remedy that situation instead of stomping our feet going "no, no, it's not fair!".

Until the other 99% of passengers on board can feel safe (and we all know what 9/11 has done for peoples' paranoia about safety in the air...), I think that the Khalsa have a responsibility to ensure that the human beings whom they are supposed to protect actually feel safe.

Terrorist George:

Hey Bob we could get past security issues by breaking a glass liquor bottle and using it as a weapon.

Terrorist Bob:

No George, can’t do. I saw a post by Max once saying that a glass bottle is not designed to be a weapon of combat with the ability to kill so it would be unfair to surprise people.

Terrorist George:

Bottle?

Sword?

Which one do you think people would feel more threatened by?

Sat Sri Akal:

Mr. MAX, you may want to check the date on the Nirmalas being sent to Benares...cause me thinks it was before the Khalsa was founded and hence, the requirements of the Kirpan were not yet mandated to the Sikhs (Sikh Encyclopedia states this was between 1685-1688, before 1699).

Ah, okay, thanks for the chronology :TH:

I was wondering if there were passages in the Dassam Granth you could point me towards concerning the 5Ks? Much appreciated.

P.S.

I'm sure that Guru Gobind Singh Ji - a very, very practical and reasonable man - would not deprive his Sikkhs of such facilities in today's world over something like temporarily placing down a weapon. Either we make an effor to educate people about this or we stop complaining that people shouldn't feel threatened when seeing a man or a woman carrying a weapon on their waste who - to them - looks just like an Islamic terrorist.

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

The following five K's are the mark of Sikhi.These five can never be parted from the body. Kara, Kirpan, Kashera, Kangha, recognise these as four of them.The fifth is Kesh, without which the other four are useless. There are also four H's which must be avoided. Understand this without any doubt, no lies have been told. Hukka, taking tobacco (including any other type of intoxicants). Hajamat, removing of hair. Halalo, eating meat. Haram, adultery (sexual relationships outside of marriage). These are the four H's. Dyeing of beards (including any other body hair), and the wearing of mehndi (including other types of make up) are strictly forbidden. (Sri Dasam Granth)

(Gurmukhi version is at: http://www.damdamitaksal.com/lit_basicsfivek.htm ).

I believe that the words speak for themselves.

[Taksali Singh]

wjkkwjkp!

I think it goes on Shardaa...

I think most (if not all) those who have posted so far agree that taking off your kakaar is acceptable when boarding a plane.

Im not going to make a judgement as some of my close family/friends have the same views.

However, what i will say is that after 5 years of an amritdhari lifestyle and after a number of flights NOT ONCE have i had to remove my kakaar. Call it luck, plain ignorance or Maharaj's Kirpa or whatever, but facts are facts.

Theres a simple procedure i follow:

1. Ardaas (ask for ability to remain steadfast and shastardhari)

2. 5 Chaupai Saahibs (for protection)

3. 5 Japji Sahibs (ability to remain Guroo Saahibs sevak)

4. Ardaas (for protection and ability to be Guroo Saahibs sevak and for the Bani recited)

5. Final Chaupai Saahib as I walk through metal dectectors.

Since recieving Amrit I have been blessed with the ability to board an aircraft without having to remove my kakaar.

Like I said, its about shardaa and having faith that Maharaj will take care of everything....

wjkkwjkp!

[Lion(LK)King]

Taksali Singh, have you had to compromise the size of the Kirpan?

What size do you use when boarding on air?

[Guest PRITAM SINGH KHALSA]

However, what i will say is that after 5 years of an amritdhari lifestyle and after a number of flights NOT ONCE have i had to remove my kakaar. Call it luck, plain ignorance or Maharaj's Kirpa or whatever, but facts are facts.

Since recieving Amrit I have been blessed with the ability to board an aircraft without having to remove my kakaar.

wjkkwjkF!

You dont live in the U.S I take it. Im Amritdhari and I have to remove mine it doesnt mean I am less Sikh it just means everyone on the plane know Im not going to flip out {If I was a spy Muslim} and take over the plane.

In the U.S we agreed with the F.A.A to remove it only in this sitch and we want to co-operate with the Gov. so they can stop harassing us like if we are Muslims and so the public knows we arent terrorist. Not just me but all Sikhs must remove their Kirpan before boarding a plane.