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"western" Sikhs?


Lionchild
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western sikhs  

42 members have voted

  1. 1. Who are western sikhs???

    • sikhs of white (Caucasian) Background
      7
    • sikhs of punjabi background born/raised in the west
      2
    • sikhs of any background born/raised in the west
      29
    • don't know
      3


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Waheguroo jee ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo jee kee Fateh!

...and for the sake of argument, all Gurbani isn't written in 'Gurmukhi' (punjabi). There is a lot of other languages incorporated also.

So the fact that there isn't english isn't necessarily because english isn't a good language, its because you gotta speak to your target audience (which at the time was in punjab, hint hint)

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Guest PRITAM SINGH KHALSA

No its not english because there isnt Naad within the english language there is only ego{Tah-Tah etc}

All right Ill say SGGS is written in Old Punjabi that isnt spoken anymore as a speaking language.

The modern Punjabi is different.

Go ask people who speak punjabi to read from Guru Granth Sahib and tell you the meanings.

They cant because it different . Some words are the same{tera,tere,mera,mere,apnee,apna etc} but the majority of it isnt what punjabis speak.

GranthiJi does katha with me from a multi volume SGGS when I visit him in his house at the Gurdwara. On one column its Gurmukhi{old punjabi} the middle is english trans, and the 3rd is Punjabi so that people who dont speak the old punjabi can read and know its meanings.

I said above that SGGS is written in persian,arabic etc.

The bible was written in aramaic and hebrew and over 2000 years its been translated in many languages and only 900 years ago translated into english. And there are many many many flaws and differences in it because it wasnt kept in its original form.There have been many books removed from it also which has over the years dissolved the ecsense of the Christian people as a whole and now only the priest live a real Christian life as an everyday thing.When all people should be as religious as Sikhs,Muslims and orthodox Jews to name a few.

In order for SGGS to be truelly eternal, then it must not be translated in other languages except for studying on the side and the English trasnslation volume should never be installed for a Sangat as the sole SGGS.

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No its not english because there isnt Naad within the english language there is only ego{Tah-Tah etc}

All right Ill say SGGS is written in Old Punjabi that isnt spoken anymore as a speaking language.

The modern Punjabi is different.

Go ask people who speak punjabi to read from Guru Granth Sahib and tell you the meanings.

They cant because it different . Some words are the same{tera,tere,mera,mere,apnee,apna etc} but the majority of it isnt what punjabis speak.

GranthiJi does katha with me from a multi volume SGGS when I visit him in his house at the Gurdwara. On one column its Gurmukhi{old punjabi} the middle is english trans, and the 3rd is Punjabi so that people who dont speak the old punjabi can read and know its meanings.

I said above that SGGS is written in persian,arabic etc.

The bible was written in aramaic and hebrew and over 2000 years its been translated in many languages and only 900 years ago translated into english. And there are many many many flaws and differences in it because it wasnt kept in its original form.There have been many books removed from it also which has over the years dissolved the ecsense of the Christian people as a whole and now only the priest live a real Christian life as an everyday thing.When all people should be as religious as Sikhs,Muslims and orthodox Jews to name a few.

In order for SGGS to be truelly eternal, then it must not be translated in other languages except for studying on the side and the English trasnslation volume should never be installed for a Sangat as the sole SGGS.

100% correct. Guru can only be the original saroop. We have katha to teach the meanings.

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No its not english because there isnt Naad within the english language there is only ego{Tah-Tah etc}

All right Ill say SGGS is written in Old Punjabi that isnt spoken anymore as a speaking language.

The modern Punjabi is different.

Go ask people who speak punjabi to read from Guru Granth Sahib and tell you the meanings.

They cant because it different . Some words are the same{tera,tere,mera,mere,apnee,apna etc} but the majority of it isnt what punjabis speak.

GranthiJi does katha with me from a multi volume SGGS when I visit him in his house at the Gurdwara. On one column its Gurmukhi{old punjabi} the middle is english trans, and the 3rd is Punjabi so that people who dont speak the old punjabi can read and know its meanings.

I said above that SGGS is written in persian,arabic etc.

The bible was written in aramaic and hebrew and over 2000 years its been translated in many languages and only 900 years ago translated into english. And there are many many many flaws and differences in it because it wasnt kept in its original form.There have been many books removed from it also which has over the years dissolved the ecsense of the Christian people as a whole and now only the priest live a real Christian life as an everyday thing.When all people should be as religious as Sikhs,Muslims and orthodox Jews to name a few.

In order for SGGS to be truelly eternal, then it must not be translated in other languages except for studying on the side and the English trasnslation volume should never be installed for a Sangat as the sole SGGS.

Pritam Singh Khalsa, you dont seem to be getting the point of this topic.......its about "western" sikhs, NOT gurmukhi. So why do u keep on insisting that people should gurmukhia, and gurmukhi thisn and gurmukhi that. Is it so hard for you to understand that people here are talkin about bringing propel's interests back to sikhi. Now, the people who seem to be dumpin sikhi/punjabi for western values, I dont think your posts will convince them to learn punjabi, let aone gurmukhi.

You see, you just keep going on and on and on about why people should learn gurmukhi. Gurmukhi, is a way our gurus used to express their teachings. So, i dont think you understand, people like gurmukhi if they are even interested in punjabi ways, and certainly those who dont care about punjabi, dont care about gurmukhi. Its great that you are learning about gurmukhi, and that u are a proper sikh, but guru's never intended that to be a showoff. So let us discuss, what the problem is, and not what we are doing.

JAshan

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i think in my view there is no western sikh or anything else .. sikh is only who respect guru granth sahib ji respect Rehat maryada follow the rehat and updesh of guru mahara he is a sikh it doesnt matter he is from east west south or north

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No its not english because there isnt Naad within the english language there is only ego{Tah-Tah etc}

All right Ill say SGGS is written in Old Punjabi that isnt spoken anymore as a speaking language.

The modern Punjabi is different.

Go ask people who speak punjabi to read from Guru Granth Sahib and tell you the meanings.

They cant because it different . Some words are the same{tera,tere,mera,mere,apnee,apna etc} but the majority of it isnt what punjabis speak.

GranthiJi does katha with me from a multi volume SGGS when I visit him in his house at the Gurdwara. On one column its Gurmukhi{old punjabi} the middle is english trans, and the 3rd is Punjabi so that people who dont speak the old punjabi can read and know its meanings.

I said above that SGGS is written in persian,arabic etc.

The bible was written in aramaic and hebrew and over 2000 years its been translated in many languages and only 900 years ago translated into english. And there are many many many flaws and differences in it because it wasnt kept in its original form.There have been many books removed from it also which has over the years dissolved the ecsense of the Christian people as a whole and now only the priest live a real Christian life as an everyday thing.When all people should be as religious as Sikhs,Muslims and orthodox Jews to name a few.

In order for SGGS to be truelly eternal, then it must not be translated in other languages except for studying on the side and the English trasnslation volume should never be installed for a Sangat as the sole SGGS.

that is because many of the authors/translators have translated the bible into their own deviation and form. Does it mean we have to do the same thing? The reason as i said earlier, this is really tied with the fact there really are no other backgounds/races in sikhi other than the punjabi people (who speak know punjabi/gurmakhi). As such, there would not be a demand for other languages and resources for people of different backgrounds, this is a evil cycle, cause we can't teach sikhi to other people without the resources, but we don't have the resources because there isnt enough people. So we must make sikhi material and the guru granth sahib ji in other languages so that they can learn sikhi.

one of the main reasons why no one has done this, is because we have got so used to one type of language, one type of people, and one type of culture in the sikhi community. the result is that there is little room or resources for other people (of different language/culture) to fit in. in the end, other people assume and continue to think that sikhi is a "indian" religion and you can only be born into sikhi. which we all knwo is total wrong...

I'm not punjabi... neither are you pritam singh. i'm not going to try to be something i'm not, nor pretend to be part of another culture i wasnt born into. when someone converts or "realizes" sikhi, we expect them to adopt the sikhi principles, but we don't expect them to adopt the punjabi culture ways/languages (both gurmakhi and punjabi), and customs.

so anyways, i think western sikhs are not just sikhs with "white" background, but didn't we know that already??? :@

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Guest PRITAM SINGH KHALSA

Lionchild: you sound anti Gurus culture when you say your tring to be someone your not, its sounds you are repeating what society tells you.

Jashans: You must always wake up on the wrong side of the bed.

If someone is completely westernized, then why would they come to a religious forum. Dont learn the Gurus language then Dont just whine about it. Im not showing off.You are trying to teach that people dont need to learn Gurmukhi.Crying about it doesnt make me stop telling people to make an effort to learn.You just sound like you dont want to learn and are speaking for all the non practicing Sikhs.Then dont learn it.Its as simple as that

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Lionchild: you sound anti Gurus culture when you say your tring to be someone your not, its sounds you are repeating what society tells you.

guru's didnt have a culture... except khalsa culture, but that is seperate from khalsa culture, and the khalsa culture is the beliefs and actions they do, not hwo they dress, talk, or who they are themselves (background, race, etc).

What i meant by "something i'm not" is that i'm not punjabi in origin, never was, never will, nor don't the desire to be. I'm perfectly comfortable in my own culture, (which is a hybrid of native/western :@ ). No one should be pushed, or made to believe that the need to "blend in" or try to look/act like punjabi when entering the sikhi community. It's a sad sight to see when some of the converts that have entered sikhi have been get pushed into believeing that their own culture and language are inferior and that punjabi customs/culture are part of sikhi.

Sure ONE CAN convert to another culture, but that is out of the realm of sikhi and is the personal choice of the person.. but i often question people who do convert to other cultures - "are you ashamed to be who you are?" and "why would you anyways?"

This is personalization, and not modernization... as so many have come to believe... no.gif

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Guest PRITAM SINGH KHALSA

Gurus had Indian Culture.

The definition of culture.

The totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought.

These patterns, traits, and products considered as the expression of a particular period, class, community, or population: Edwardian culture; Japanese culture; the culture of poverty.

These patterns, traits, and products considered with respect to a particular category, such as a field, subject, or mode of expression: religious culture in the Middle Ages; musical culture; oral culture.

The predominating attitudes and behavior that characterize the functioning of a group or organization.

No one forces nothing.

Wearing a turban is Sikh culture you just pick and choose what part of the culture to take part of. The way you just said means you dont need to wear a turban because your culture doesnt wear one. 5Ks is Indian/Sikh culture but you have a need for those.

Taking Prashad with two hands is Sikh /Indian culture and you have to do this.Same with removing your shoes, does your culture remove shoes when entering a house? Do you at GuruJis house?

You said" It's a sad sight to see when some of the converts that have entered sikhi have been get pushed into believeing that their own culture and language are inferior and that punjabi customs/culture are part of sikhi."

No our society is bad. Strip clubs, x rated movies, people sleeping with anyone who will with them, Gangs, drugs, corruption, no manners etc.

That is yours and my native culture and I will not remain in that grip.

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Pritam singh.. so you think that indian culture is perfect? heck, even members who are part of that culture/community recognise that there are nagative aspects of that culture...

Gurus were born into indian culture, but did they preach or try to spread the culture they where born into? no... they teached sikhi instead. As we all recognise, there is sikhi culture and indian/punjabi culture.. both are seperate. That is a something every convert must recognise, or else they will become overwhelmed and closed in.

dastaar, 5 k's, gurbani, are sikhi culture. music, clothing, traditions that are not sikhi are outside the realm of sikhi. We are not directed how to eat, how to dress, how to talk or how to communicate with people (keep in mid that moderation is key).

No our society is bad.

You focused on the negative aspects, and didnt even give any positives... are you ashamed of your background and society? ohmy.gif Sure, there are bad things going on in ALL society's/cultures, but do we have to follow everything they do?

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