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"western" Sikhs?


Lionchild
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western sikhs  

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  1. 1. Who are western sikhs???

    • sikhs of white (Caucasian) Background
      7
    • sikhs of punjabi background born/raised in the west
      2
    • sikhs of any background born/raised in the west
      29
    • don't know
      3


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1 after the Amrit ceremony the Panj Pyare lay down the strict rules that you must live by, they say it is a must {or you cant ever read the SGGS} along with other important rules or conduct.

Please provide quotes from guru granth sahib ji please. Everyone can read guru granth sahib ji brother.

2 Guru Nanak would go to a region and if he didnt know the language he would find someone to translate the message,meaning someone knew what he was saying and knew the language of the target people. Guru Nanak would sing the Shabad in Old Punjabi{Gurmukhi} and either GuruJi or the translator would explain the Shabad in the language understood by the Sadh Sangat of that land. Katha means: to explain out the shabad in the language understood to the Sangat in Punjabi{modern} English etc. But Raag means it is sung in the mood of the Shabad that coresponds with the topic covered in the Shabad{{ For example if it was a sad sounding shabad the mood would be sad so the notes of the song would sound sad also. }} People{GranthiJis dont sing as correctly as did the Gurus and the people following the years after,and until today people lazily recite from SGGS} When GuruJi was singing the Sangat could understand the Naad and not neccesarily understand the meaning. Thats why you have Katha, to explain in the Language of the people present. After a while the Sangat will understand the Gurmukhi and Naad of SGGSand themselves be able to teach the meanings in their languages Katha. In Mexico they recite SGGS in Gurmukhi but do Katha in spainish.

Yes i have heard this, and translators where used ok, and guru nanak singed in his own language like anyone would. And who wouldn't? yet he still used translators for it. Today, yes it is 2006 and things of changed, we don't have to change for anyone, yet we have to reach more out into the worldwide community to spread sikhi, and in a practical term, we can't do that by telling eveeyone to learn a whole new language. After they learn sikhi for a while, give them the option of learning it, but don't puch them or tell them they must learn it.

3 The bible has been fatally altered by the Roman English version/translation. I could have a literal seminar on this but I would be basically taking down to Christians just for one example and this is just 1% of what I could teach about the corruption of the english bible Go and find and read the Psalms of Solomon.. It is not there. The only Psalmns in existence to the world is the psalms of David his father but not of his and remember Solomon was the wisest of the Kings. The Psalms/songs of Solomon must of had a deep intelectual meaning of the topics and removing them herded to congregation into a fenced off area with no way out, and now nobody even knows of its existence.{Trust me on this I studied all this for years and years} I then found so many holes that I forfieted the bible alltogether. I was in a state of having no fulflilment until I was revealed Sri Guru Granth Sahib which has reopened my eyes and my Dasam Duaar.You could say that the Jews have the most authentic version of the Bible today but is only the Old Testament and which they live by today. It would take a tremendous effort to start to see what Im talking about by looking and studying yourself about this. I could go on for months about this part of this issue so I will stop here on this subject.

True, but what bible are you talking about? lol, there are several versions, i'm talking about he new world translation of the holy scriptures, a much better version than the king james. it has been translated into hundreds of languages and has not been altered. i know this, i read parts of it and was part of that organization. Anyways the point is - it's the meaning that counts, why don't you understand that?

4 The English translation is only used for Katha or on the side study and has zero Naad within. It couldnt be installed to teach a Sangat only the original Eternal SGGS is to be installed or you insult the Guruship of the SGGS. If you look at 4 different English translated SGGS they would differ throughout even though they are somewhat close to the meaning. In order to fully understand SGGS you must study the words themselves their origins and the story behind the Shabad and why it was compiled in SGGS. Learning what the brief meaning is of SGGS is reading the English version which is just a version and not a SGGS Saroop. This means the translated versions can be distorted allthough close but not exactlly the most true meaning.

"Same meaning" isnt exact meaning.I could say "apples and oranges" or "peaches and pears" which have the same meaning but arent the exact meaning. If I wrote "apples and oranges" and it was transalted into peaches and pears it is the same but different meaning the translation would have to be the english word for apple etc. Or GU RU means darkness and light -- the light that dispels all darkness but its english transaltion is "spiritual teacher" which is similar but very different.

Yeah if you make an effort to distort it then it will be distorted for good. that's the first time i heard that apples and oranges are like peaches and pears rolleyes.gif . your right, guru does sound better than spiritual teacher, english is probably the worst language to translate anything into, yet hundreds of millions of peopel speak it. i think for words liek that, it is better off to just stick with the original sound, yet for simple words like "tree" "human" "road" can be translated easily. An interesting statement you said about "original Eternal SGGS" if that is true, then all of the guru granth sahib ji's other than the very original one are not original, since they where copied from the original guru granth sahib ji, and not from the guru's.

5 There are many ways to communicate with God in all languages but through the Gurus Grace we spread the Naad through the text in its original form of SGGS. Its not as simple as knowing the meaning one must also understand the Naad within its message also and in the english form there isnt any Naad involved.

and NAAD is the message, not the words themselves, it's the meaning behind the words. original form of message yes (that shoudl never be altered), but we can talk about sikhi in other languages, aren't we doing that right now? Is that wrong?

6 You could hand out a booklet in any language to share the concepts of Sikhi but then there comes a point to get past learning concepts and straight learn the real deepest meanings of anyother information on Earth.

You could read translated version in all language but without the original SGGS they could only get soo far and then would be nuetral but highly spiritual. SRI GURU ARJAN DEV JI compiled the Adi Granth in its exact form as it is today same number of angs/pages same orders of banis etc and the 10th Master organised the SGGS inits form as used today and they cannot be altered or translated but only in Katha be worded differently to teach the meanings to people who havent or are learning the meanings.First you share in there language and if they are a serios and dedicated person to Sikhi then they would want to learn the original form of SGGS to feel the Naad and by closer to the Gurus teachings as if said to them by the Gurus themselves.

Again, the "original" guru granth sahib ji has been copied many times. The one in your gurdwara isnt the original one, it's been copied before hand. You still don't understand... don't alter the SGGS, but simply translate, why should it be altered? A serious dedicated sikhi takes amrit, regardless of who they are and how they talk. Again, it was the gurus message, not the sound/script of the words.

7 English could never matchand sound what was said from the Gurus mouthes.

If you have that attitude yes - it's mainly to do with your state of mind and interpretation of sound pritam, you prefer gurmaki/punjabi, others prefer english. if you think something is going to be bad, than it will be bad.

8 Old Punjab cultue matches the Sikhi culter and modern punjab culter only briefly matches the Sikh culture. {that could be its own thread so i stop here on this part of this topic}

if that is true, then shouldn't we have a caste system in place still in sikhi? and shouldnt we have bhangra being played in our gurdwara's? and wouldnt there be direct rules telling us that we should dress/eat/talk like the punjabi culture? Punjabi culture is seperate from sikhi culture, it does not match.

9 I am and was a new convert to the Sikh way of life, and all this are just a percentage of my findings.So Im in the shoes you are talking about and am jogging just fine and am planning on running and then sprinting.

good for you, don't forget about the new converts behind you rolleyes.gif and your not in my shoes, you don't know me and what i have been through in the last 11 months.

10 The rehat can only cover so many things and the rest falls into Gurmat. Start to learn Gurmat and youll see what I am talking about. Follow the panthic rehat and follow it closely. and All of the rehat was written by humans and was revised in 1947 and it gives the names of who was involved.

But the rehat was in use before it was written down, it was passed down by word of mouth before it was written down. The original rehat is from the guru's teachings, a basic code of conduct. We should go by that and the guru granth sahib ji, and nothing else. once we start following peoples understanding of gurmat, then it could be drifting away from guru's teachings. sikhi should remain basic and not be clouded with human rules and principles.

The gurus did alot of things we don't do today... did the guru's drive cars? did they use speakers and mics? did they live in the new world? obviously not, the gurmat is guru granth sahib ji and the rahat maryada (the original one). How they traveled and what they wore (with the exeption of 5k's) is not important as learning sikhi values.

If you dont learn the Gurmukhi script and sounds youll be forced to only listen and cant study for yourself and will drop down in to the ranks as the Brahmins only can read the text and the congregation is illiterate and can be mislead or not taught its meaning to the fullest extent. Its up to you to recite JapJi at Amritvela in its original form along with Jaap Sahib, Tav Prasad, Chaupai, Anand Sahib. And So Dar/Rehaaras, Sohila inthe evening and before bed also Sukhmani Sahib and SGGS in general while in its original form with its Naad paralleled or intertwinned within its sound waves.

This is the most brief way and best way I could explain in a short amount of time and space the meaning of Naad and what was said from the Gurus mouth/Gurmukhi.

So you now believe in caste system now? I am not any lower or higher than you are a new person to sikhi. Just because i don't read gurmakhi does not make me less of a human than you.

Remember - it's the guru's message that counts, not the words.

WJKK WJKF

-LC

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Guest PRITAM SINGH KHALSA

O.k I dont feel like saying the same thing but with capital letters in some places.

1) the caste system was invalid from what the Gurus said. And actually the punjabis have sort of brought the caste system with them here to the u.s. We had this topis in the conversation on Sunday.

2)Gurmat was passed down from the word of mouth and rehat is written in concrete.

3)If you talk about shoes then nobody is in anyones shoes but their own. So then you cant use the saying "in my shoes"

4)Yes the translated ones arent the original thats why it cant be installed as the sole SGGS in a Gurdwara unless its corrupt and disrespectes Gurmat.

5)The bible thing is true from what I have said in all versions. From the latin translation it also changed. Have you compared and studied with the hebrew text right next to it? If you do that then thats the same as doing that with Guru Granth and the english translation.

The rest Ill let you think what you want. Manmatt is :

1. Who Is A Manmukh?

This

article is presented with the Gur Parsaad of Dhan Dhan Guru and God who is Agam

Agadh Agochar Anant Beyant Dhan Dhan Paar Braham Paar Braham Parmesar:

Let

us pray to God and Guru with folded hands, with countless Dandaut Bandana at

their lotus feet. With countless thanks to them with every breath of

ours. With our head pressed at their lotus feet for ever. And

for all ages to come may we remain at their Charan Kamals, with Garibi Ves

Hirda.

May we have utmost humbleness in our Hirda, full belief, commitment,

trust, faith, Sachee Preet and Sachee Shardha.

May we have true and

unconditional devotion, without any worldly demands, with unconditional love in

our heart for all His Creation and with our head pressed at the feet of the

entire creation.

May we always keep the Guru, Gur and Gur Sangat in first

place and everything else at second place.

May God and Guru give us

the wisdom to understand what is the divine meaning of the Shabad

"Manmukh". So we can understand and bring inside our Hirda the following

points

· what makes a person

a Manmukh?

· what are the

characteristics of a

Manmukh?

· what are our own

qualities, character and personality in light of the meaning of Manmukh ?

· are we are a

Manmukh?

· or are we making

efforts to steer ourselves in the right direction?

The right direction means

· heading towards the

discovery of Eternal Truth,

· towards the achievement of

our real objective of this human life,

· to become a Gurmukh,

· to achieve salvation,

· to get relieved from the

shackles of the Maya

· and

be one with the Origin-Ik Oankaar Satnaam, Nirgun Saroop of Akal

Purakh.

First of all let us pray for the Gur Parsaad to understand the

meaning of the Shabad "Manmukh".

This word comprises of two words -

"Man" and "Mukh" :

MAN

"Man" means your own mind. The mind is a

invisible part of your body which is controlled by your own "Matt" meaning

wisdom. Self-made wisdom is called the "Manmatt". It is based on

your own education and also the rules of the society you live in. This is

also called the worldly wisdom – "Sansarik Mutt". Both the Manmatt and

Sansarik Mutt also contain some element of the "Durmatt". The "Durmatt" is the

evil wisdom which prompts you to

:

· do bad deeds,

· commit sins,

· get involved in all kinds

of deeds which make you selfish,

· involve you in slander,

gossip and back-biting ( Nindya, Chugli Bakhili),

· doing bad to others,

· hurting others,

· cheating and deceiving

others and so on.

Basically all the Manmatt falls under the operation of

Maya. All the actions and deeds conducted under the influence of Manmatt

happens under two of the three parts of Maya : 1) RAJO (Desires &

Negative Criticism– Asa Trishna Mansha Nindya Chugli Bakhili) and

2)

TAMO (Panj Doots – Kaam Krodh Lobh Moh Ahankaar – prompted by Raj Joban Dhan

Maal Roop Rus Gandh Sparash )

In a nutshell the mind operates under the

directions of wisdom that is self-made, worldy and evil (Manmatt, Sansarik Mutt

& Durmatt). All of that wisdom is gained under RAJO and TAMO parts of

Maya.

In order to blessed with the Guru's Divine Wisdom (Gur-Matt) we have

start by practicing truthful deeds. That comes under the third part of the

Maya called SATO. It means we have to practice:

· kindness (daya),

· forgiveness,

· humbleness,

· love;

· Dharam-eternal truth Ik

Oankaar Satnaam, · Naam Simran,

· practicing Gurbani,

· practicing truth in daily

life, · being truthful in all

actions and deeds, · work

towards getting a control over the mind and Panj Doots,

· restrain from doing Nindya

Chugli Bakhili, · restrain from

harming, cheating and deceiving others;

· helping others,

· giving Dasvandh,

· surrender to the Gur and Guru,

· Seva and Parupkaar,

· efforts to achieve the

salvation, · efforts to get out

of the shackles if Maya, · work

towards relieving yourself of all kinds of doubts, delusions, illusions and

distractions; ·

Santokh-Contentment, ·

controlling desires, · no greed

· Sanjam-patience,

and· stability

All these

truthful deeds take us towards reforming our self-wisdom (MANMATT) with divine

wisdom (GURMATT). Gurmatt shows us the path to defeating the three states

of MAYA and going beyond it into the fourth state (CHAUTHA PAD) – Eternal Truth

– SAT. This is the path to becoming a Gurmukh.

MUKH

The second part

of the word ManMukh is the word (Shabad) "Mukh". This literally means

"FACE". Whichever way your mind is facing (MUKH) defines the path you are

following. The direction you are facing defines what influences your

actions and deeds in your daily life.

MANMUKH

The word

Manmukh describes the person who is "facing towards the worldly

mind". Wereas as a GurMukh has his face towards GUR (God ,Guru and

Gurbani). The Shabad "Manmukh" basically means "the person who follows his

own wisdom". But his own wisdom is nothing but a mixture of Sansarik Matt

and Durmatt. The result of his own education, his own learning from

his environment and the rules of the society he lives in. In a

nutshell the Manmukh is the person who operates under the influence of Rajo and

Tamo attributes of Maya. A more practical and easy to understand preview of the

qualities of a "Manmukh" are briefly described as

follows:

1.

Who has no belief in Gur, Guru and

Gurbani.

2.

Who is not committed to the Gur and Guru and

Gurbani.

3.

Who has no faith in the Gur and Guru and

Gurbani.

4.

Who has no trust in the Gur and Guru and

Gurbani

5.

Who has not completely surrendered himself to the Gur and

Guru.

6.

Who doesn't follow his Guru's words of divine

wisdom.

7.

Who doesn't give Dasvandh of his time to the Gur and Guru,means who is not

involved in the Seva & Simran and doesn't give 10% of his time to the

Gur and

Guru.

8.

Who doesn't give 10% of his earnings to the Gur and

Guru.

9.

Who is ruled by the Panj Doots. Whose life is ruled by any of all of the Panj

Doots: Kaam Krodh Lobh Moh &

Ahankaar

10. Who

is ruled by the

desires.

11. Who

is involved in the negative criticism - Nindya, Chugli and

Bakhili.

12. Who

doesn't practice the divine wisdom – Gurmatt – Gurbani in his daily

life.

13. Who

doesn't love all the creation of the

Almighty.

14. Who

is full of hatred and

discrimination.

15.

Who doesn't recognize that all are equal, all are human

beings.

16. Who

doesn't think and do good to

others.

17. Who

lives a life full of Dubidha – delusions and

illusions.

18.

Who has no humbleness – Nimrata in his

behavior.

19. Who

is not kind to others. Who is not kind

hearted.

20. Who

is not honest in his deeds.

And the list goes on.

The bottom line is that

:

the person who is not a Gurmukh is a Manmukh.

A person is a Manmukh

until he has :

· become a

Gurmukh he will remain a Manmukh.

· completely realized

Almighty he is a Manmukh.

· all his Bajjar Kapaats –

all his divne doors including Dassam Duaar & Divine Eye open

· been blessed eternally

with the Gur Parsaad of Anhad Shabad Amrit

· been eternally blessed

with the activation of Sat Sarovar – seven centers of the spiritual energy with

in the body

· been eternally

blessed with the highest Amrit – Atam Rus

· become a Puran Khalsa by

virtue of a Param Jyot Puran Parkash in his Hirda

· merged in the Almighty's

Nirgun Saroop completely.

Only a Puran Sant is not a Manmukh.

Only a Puran

Braham Gyani is not a Manmukh.

Only a Puran Khalsa is not a Manmukh.

Only a divine soul who lives in the Dargah of Akal Purakh is a Gurmukh. And

until that happens a person remains a Manmukh because his inside is not

completely cleaned up. And until the inside is not completely cleaned up

and becomes a Puran Sachyara and capable of seeing, speaking, hearing,

delivering and serving the complete eternal truth, the person will remain a

Manmukh.

Dassan Dass (Slave Of God’s Slaves)

source:http://www.satnaam.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3&Itemid=11

something i read and wanted to share...a more centralized meaning of manmukh...we use this word..but yet some don't know the complete meaning..this helped understand it a lot...

fatehjio

Learn what you want I cant teach a wall anything but how to stand there and get rained on.

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O.k I dont feel like saying the same thing but with capital letters in some places.

1) the caste system was invalid from what the Gurus said. And actually the punjabis have sort of brought the caste system with them here to the u.s. We had this topis in the conversation on Sunday.

2)Gurmat was passed down from the word of mouth and rehat is written in concrete.

3)If you talk about shoes then nobody is in anyones shoes but their own. So then you cant use the saying "in my shoes"

4)Yes the translated ones arent the original thats why it cant be installed as the sole SGGS in a Gurdwara unless its corrupt and disrespectes Gurmat...

....Learn what you want I cant teach a wall anything but how to stand there and get rained on.

Yes we all know about that, gurdwaras being set up for caste reasons, and even in small towns like vernon, there is caste system with management. Yes the rehat was written down latter on, it wasnt really in writting before hand, from what others have told me. And it was passed down from word of mouth. It eventually had to be finalized cause there where so many rehats, it makes you wonder what the gurus rehat really was, i'm sure it was better than what we have today.. i guess that's why we should know both rehat and some SGGS in order to balance out the possible shortcommings of the rehat. the "in my shoes" was a metaphoric example, please, it wasnt meant to be taken literaly. Your right, everyones experience is different, one style doesnt fit all. So they are not the orginals, so how can you say the original can be the only one installed? The other copied ones where made by humans, and not the gurus, and thus are not original. But that is not important, the physicla book itself is not important, it's the message inside that is important and must be respected. That's why we bow down for respect, and not the the actuall physical part ofthe guru granth sahib ji. It's a bit strange, we put the "guru to bed" we put water under guru granth sahib ji, we walk backwards when exiting, we do other rituals that really don't benifit the guru granth sahib ji. what ever happened to the meaning of being simple? some people say it's out of respect, but did we do that to the living gurus? I don't really know. I think we come from very different backgrounds and experiences, as well as goals and priorities. I want to spread sikhi to other people and make sikhi accessible to other people, i don't know what you want to do in life, i'm sure it's just as good and benificial.

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to the poll starter...

LOGICALLY.. once a person is a initiated and becomes a gursikh...theres no west/east/north/central...etc etc kinda sikh.

in India itself u will find cultures differ dramatically if u move frm north to south..west to east... but sikhs never say tht ..he is a punjabi (north) sikh..or he/she is a bombay sikh..etc

so logically ..thre's nothing as western sikh..

but yeah...wht some ppl think and wht i infer frm them is tht ... a western sikh who is born and raised in western world..

but again..lol..if he/she is a sikh..then he/she is following a religion not a culture ..and religion dont have north/south/east/west... religion is same for those who follow it !!

THE END

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to the poll starter...

LOGICALLY.. once a person is a initiated and becomes a gursikh...theres no west/east/north/central...etc etc kinda sikh.

in India itself u will find cultures differ dramatically if u move frm north to south..west to east... but sikhs never say tht ..he is a punjabi (north) sikh..or he/she is a bombay sikh..etc

so logically ..thre's nothing as western sikh..

but yeah...wht some ppl think and wht i infer frm them is tht ... a western sikh who is born and raised in western world..

but again..lol..if he/she is a sikh..then he/she is following a religion not a culture ..and religion dont have north/south/east/west... religion is same for those who follow it !!

THE END

thank you 'curious_man' ji for taking the discussion back on track! i wanted to set u pthis poll because there aresome people who think that western sikhs mean only one background, and while others think otherwise. The poll was meant as a ways of figureing out what the sangat says on it. Thanks.

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Guest PRITAM SINGH KHALSA

I can see that you dont understand why we do all the things you question. Youll either know one by one or never know. Read the story of Bhai Lehna walking backwards to get Guru Nanak water, or why we have the Guru rest as all us do every night. You should do alot more studying rather than chatting on the computer to find out this info you are looking for.

You munipulated the copied SGGS, they have to be copied or there would only be one, but changing the language is completely a diffrent thing. All SGGS are 1430 pages. How many eng. versions have the exact amount of pages?

I am no one to say the original saroops have to be installed, the Akal Takhat says so. You are the only one wanting an english version instaleed who are you to disrupt 400 years of Sikhi for your benefit?

The way your going you are doing more damage than good.

Why dont you start your own sect called lionSikhs? With your rehats and conduct, why dont you serve snikers bars as parshad? and instead of wearing a turban and 5Ks you have them tie shoe strings on their ankles and have 5Ps instead of the 5Ks? And you should sit on the throne and have your translated version on the ground at your feet?

This is how you sound.

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I can see that you dont understand why we do all the things you question. Youll either know one by one or never know. Read the story of Bhai Lehna walking backwards to get Guru Nanak water, or why we have the Guru rest as all us do every night. You should do alot more studying rather than chatting on the computer to find out this info you are looking for.

You munipulated the copied SGGS, they have to be copied or there would only be one, but changing the language is completely a diffrent thing. All SGGS are 1430 pages. How many eng. versions have the exact amount of pages?

I am no one to say the original saroops have to be installed, the Akal Takhat says so. You are the only one wanting an english version instaleed who are you to disrupt 400 years of Sikhi for your benefit?

The way your going you are doing more damage than good.

Why dont you start your own sect called lionSikhs? With your rehats and conduct, why dont you serve snikers bars as parshad? and instead of wearing a turban and 5Ks you have them tie shoe strings on their ankles and have 5Ps instead of the 5Ks? And you should sit on the throne and have your translated version on the ground at your feet?

This is how you sound.

All you ever do pritam is take everything to the extreme and bend it out of shape till it does sound distorted, this would not benifit me, as i already have SGGS in english, this is to help others to learn more about sikhi. You are the one who is backwards and so stuck up that you can't look at other peopels point of view.

This is not a verion, it's a translation, if it was a verion, then it would be altered. Language is transfereable and is not as important as the message within. You can't sem to grasp that, perhaps it is because of your ashamed of your native language and culture, maybe it's because you act like your better than everyone else. And not just english... chinese, japanese, spanish, german, the list goes on. Oh yeah, i bet your just freaking out because it would not be going by your language preference.

If you really want to stress your points, then never quote or mention a guru granth sahib ji quote in english EVER AGAIN, FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. The gurus didn't use english did they?

:e:

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Guest PRITAM SINGH KHALSA

"""""Oh yeah, i bet your just freaking out because it would not be going by your language preference.""""""

I PREFER IT TO BE IN THE CORRECT LANGUAGE{THE ORIGINAL}

I also have an Engilish translation SGGS, a Quran and bibles. Im also waiting for a Torah. I study them all but always will put SGGS above all even my own life.

EGO IS POSTING THINGS TO YOUR OWN BENEFIT. I POST THESE AS FOR THE WHOLE PANTH TO BENEFIT. I DONT BENEFIT AT ALL, FROM WHAT I SAID ABOVE.lionchild you will never learn what naad is from the Gurus teachings. At an Akhand Paath interupt it and tell them you cant understand it so they must read it in English. YOU JUST DONT WANT TO LEARN ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT YOU KNOW NOW.YOU SHOULD PRACTICE RECITING THE ORIGINAL SCRIPT BECAUSE EVERYONE HAS TO START SOMEWHERE BUT PROCRASTINATING WONT HELP IT OUT.

SINCE I SOUND EGO, THEN INSTALL AN ENGLISH GRANTH AND HAVE YOUR OWN SANGAT AND HAVE THE ORIGINAL GURU GRANTH BE INVALID

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    • yeh it's true, we shouldn't be lazy and need to learn jhatka shikaar. It doesn't help some of grew up in surrounding areas like Slough and Southall where everyone thought it was super bad for amrit dharis to eat meat, and they were following Sant babas and jathas, and instead the Singhs should have been normalising jhatka just like the recent world war soldiers did. We are trying to rectifiy this and khalsa should learn jhatka.  But I am just writing about bhog for those that are still learning rehit. As I explained, there are all these negative influences in the panth that talk against rehit, but this shouldn't deter us from taking khanda pahul, no matter what level of rehit we are!
    • How is it going to help? The link is of a Sikh hunter. Fine, but what good does that do the lazy Sikh who ate khulla maas in a restaurant? By the way, for the OP, yes, it's against rehit to eat khulla maas.
    • Yeah, Sikhs should do bhog of food they eat. But the point of bhog is to only do bhog of food which is fit to be presented to Maharaj. It's not maryada to do bhog of khulla maas and pretend it's OK to eat. It's not. Come on, bro, you should know better than to bring this Sakhi into it. Is this Sikh in the restaurant accompanied by Guru Gobind Singh ji? Is he fighting a dharam yudh? Or is he merely filling his belly with the nearest restaurant?  Please don't make a mockery of our puratan Singhs' sacrifices by comparing them to lazy Sikhs who eat khulla maas.
    • Seriously?? The Dhadi is trying to be cute. For those who didn't get it, he said: "Some say Maharaj killed bakras (goats). Some say he cut the heads of the Panj Piyaras. The truth is that they weren't goats. It was she-goats (ਬਕਰੀਆਂ). He jhatka'd she-goats. Not he-goats." Wow. This is possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard in relation to Sikhi.
    • Instead of a 9 inch or larger kirpan, take a smaller kirpan and put it (without gatra) inside your smaller turban and tie the turban tightly. This keeps a kirpan on your person without interfering with the massage or alarming the masseuse. I'm not talking about a trinket but rather an actual small kirpan that fits in a sheath (you'll have to search to find one). As for ahem, "problems", you could get a male masseuse. I don't know where you are, but in most places there are professional masseuses who actually know what they are doing and can really relieve your muscle pains.
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