The Origin Of The Universe

[Brian.Singh]

Hi Peeps,

What do you guys say about the the creation/Origin of the Universe?

Who may have created it?

How it may have been created?

How it came to existence?

What was BEFORE the 'Origin of Universe'?

When will be AFTER the 'End of Universe'?

Is there only One Universe?

What Existed before the Existence Existed? (sounds weird)

What the hell is going on?????????

Love

Brian Singh

[Guest Narinder Singh]

Hi Peeps,

What do you guys say about the the creation/Origin of the Universe?

Who may have created it?

How it may have been created?

How it came to existence?

What was BEFORE the 'Origin of Universe'?

When will be AFTER the 'End of Universe'?

Is there only One Universe?

What Existed before the Existence Existed? (sounds weird)

What the hell is going on?????????

Love

Brian Singh

ਕਵਣੁ ਸੁ ਵੇਲਾ ਵਖਤੁ ਕਵਣੁ ਕਵਣ ਥਿਤਿ ਕਵਣੁ ਵਾਰੁ ॥

कवणु सु वेला वखतु कवणु कवण थिति कवणु वारु ॥

kavan so vaylaa vakhat kavan kavan thit kavan vaar.

What was that time, and what was that moment? What was that day, and what was that date?

ਕਵਣਿ ਸਿ ਰੁਤੀ ਮਾਹੁ ਕਵਣੁ ਜਿਤੁ ਹੋਆ ਆਕਾਰੁ ॥

कवणि सि रुती माहु कवणु जितु होआ आकारु ॥

kavan se rutee maahu kavan jit ho-aa aakaar.

What was that season, and what was that month, when the Universe was created?

ਵੇਲ ਨ ਪਾਈਆ ਪੰਡਤੀ ਜਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਲੇਖੁ ਪੁਰਾਣੁ ॥

वेल न पाईआ पंडती जि होवै लेखु पुराणु ॥

vayl na paa-ee-aa pandtee je hovai laykh puraan.

The Pandits, the religious scholars, cannot find that time, even if it is written in the Puraanas.

ਵਖਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਓ ਕਾਦੀਆ ਜਿ ਲਿਖਨਿ ਲੇਖੁ ਕੁਰਾਣੁ ॥

वखतु न पाइओ कादीआ जि लिखनि लेखु कुराणु ॥

vakhat na paa-i-o kaadee-aa je likhan laykh kuraan.

That time is not known to the Qazis, who study the Koran.

ਥਿਤਿ ਵਾਰੁ ਨਾ ਜੋਗੀ ਜਾਣੈ ਰੁਤਿ ਮਾਹੁ ਨਾ ਕੋਈ ॥

थिति वारु ना जोगी जाणै रुति माहु ना कोई ॥

thit vaar naa jogee jaanai rut maahu naa ko-ee.

The day and the date are not known to the Yogis, nor is the month or the season.

ਜਾ ਕਰਤਾ ਸਿਰਠੀ ਕਉ ਸਾਜੇ ਆਪੇ ਜਾਣੈ ਸੋਈ ॥

जा करता सिरठी कउ साजे आपे जाणै सोई ॥

jaa kartaa sirthee ka-o saajay aapay jaanai so-ee.

The Creator who created this creation-only He Himself knows.

ਕਿਵ ਕਰਿ ਆਖਾ ਕਿਵ ਸਾਲਾਹੀ ਕਿਉ ਵਰਨੀ ਕਿਵ ਜਾਣਾ ॥

किव करि आखा किव सालाही किउ वरनी किव जाणा ॥

kiv kar aakhaa kiv saalaahee ki-o varnee kiv jaanaa.

How can we speak of Him? How can we praise Him? How can we describe Him? How can we know Him?

ਨਾਨਕ ਆਖਣਿ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਆਖੈ ਇਕ ਦੂ ਇਕੁ ਸਿਆਣਾ ॥

नानक आखणि सभु को आखै इक दू इकु सिआणा ॥

naanak aakhan sabh ko aakhai ik doo ik si-aanaa.

O Nanak, everyone speaks of Him, each one wiser than the rest.

ਵਡਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਵਡੀ ਨਾਈ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾ ਕਾ ਹੋਵੈ ॥

वडा साहिबु वडी नाई कीता जा का होवै ॥

vadaa saahib vadee naa-ee keetaa jaa kaa hovai.

Great is the Master, Great is His Name. Whatever happens is according to His Will.

ਨਾਨਕ ਜੇ ਕੋ ਆਪੌ ਜਾਣੈ ਅਗੈ ਗਇਆ ਨ ਸੋਹੈ ॥੨੧॥

नानक जे को आपौ जाणै अगै गइआ न सोहै ॥२१॥

naanak jay ko aapou jaanai agai ga-i-aa na sohai. ||21||

O Nanak, one who claims to know everything shall not be decorated in the world hereafter. ||21||

ਪਾਤਾਲਾ ਪਾਤਾਲ ਲਖ ਆਗਾਸਾ ਆਗਾਸ ॥

पाताला पाताल लख आगासा आगास ॥

paataalaa paataal lakh aagaasaa aagaas.

There are nether worlds beneath nether worlds, and hundreds of thousands of heavenly worlds above.

ਓੜਕ ਓੜਕ ਭਾਲਿ ਥਕੇ ਵੇਦ ਕਹਨਿ ਇਕ ਵਾਤ ॥

ओड़क ओड़क भालि थके वेद कहनि इक वात ॥

orhak orhak bhaal thakay vayd kahan ik vaat.

The Vedas say that you can search and search for them all, until you grow weary.

ਸਹਸ ਅਠਾਰਹ ਕਹਨਿ ਕਤੇਬਾ ਅਸੁਲੂ ਇਕੁ ਧਾਤੁ ॥

सहस अठारह कहनि कतेबा असुलू इकु धातु ॥

sehas athaarah kahan kataybaa asuloo ik Dhaat.

The scriptures say that there are 18,000 worlds, but in reality, there is only One Universe.

ਲੇਖਾ ਹੋਇ ਤ ਲਿਖੀਐ ਲੇਖੈ ਹੋਇ ਵਿਣਾਸੁ ॥

लेखा होइ त लिखीऐ लेखै होइ विणासु ॥

laykhaa ho-ay ta likee-ai laykhai ho-ay vinaas.

If you try to write an account of this, you will surely finish yourself before you finish writing it.

ਨਾਨਕ ਵਡਾ ਆਖੀਐ ਆਪੇ ਜਾਣੈ ਆਪੁ ॥੨੨॥

नानक वडा आखीऐ आपे जाणै आपु ॥२२॥

naanak vadaa aakhee-ai aapay jaanai aap. ||22||

O Nanak, call Him Great! He Himself knows Himself. ||22||

ਸਾਲਾਹੀ ਸਾਲਾਹਿ ਏਤੀ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਨ ਪਾਈਆ ॥

सालाही सालाहि एती सुरति न पाईआ ॥

saalaahee saalaahi aytee surat na paa-ee-aa.

The praisers praise the Lord, but they do not obtain intuitive understanding -

ਨਦੀਆ ਅਤੈ ਵਾਹ ਪਵਹਿ ਸਮੁੰਦਿ ਨ ਜਾਣੀਅਹਿ ॥

नदीआ अतै वाह पवहि समुंदि न जाणीअहि ॥

nadee-aa atai vaah pavahi samund na jaanee-ahi.

the streams and rivers flowing into the ocean do not know its vastness.

ਸਮੁੰਦ ਸਾਹ ਸੁਲਤਾਨ ਗਿਰਹਾ ਸੇਤੀ ਮਾਲੁ ਧਨੁ ॥

समुंद साह सुलतान गिरहा सेती मालु धनु ॥

samund saah sultaan girhaa saytee maal Dhan.

Even kings and emperors, with mountains of property and oceans of wealth -

ਕੀੜੀ ਤੁਲਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਨੀ ਜੇ ਤਿਸੁ ਮਨਹੁ ਨ ਵੀਸਰਹਿ ॥੨੩॥

कीड़ी तुलि न होवनी जे तिसु मनहु न वीसरहि ॥२३॥

keerhee tul na hovnee jay tis manhu na veesrahi. ||23||

these are not even equal to an ant, who does not forget God. ||23||

Veerji, people spend their whole life trying to get these answers and then eventually die without really figuring anything out, as gurbani tells us, the more u find out the more questions arise because the vastness of his creation is endless. His creation and power cannot be understood in a life time, not even in a million, billion or trillion life times.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Singh132]

taken from www.whyichosesikhism.com

: The Sikh explanation of creation is much more detailed and true than the story of Adam and Eve etc. Satguru has given the process clearly in Akaalee baanee. Satguru first describes what was before creation: "Arbad, narbad dhundoo kaaraa, dharn na gugana hukum apaaraa" pg 1035. This means for countless ages there was utter darkness (nothingness), no heaven or earth. The will of Akaal reigned everywhere. No day no night, no sun, no moon. Only Akaal stayed in solitary meditation.

Then guru jee says "keetaa pasaao eko kavao". With his one word, the universe was created. Then what was the process? On panna 1037-38 Satguru describes that the elements of air and water were evolved along with everything else in the universe. On panna 19, Satguru says "sache te pavanaa bhaiyaa pavne te jal hoi. jal tay tribhavan saajiyaa, ghat ghat jot samoi" from the true on, air (gases) were created and from them was created water. From water arose the three worlds (metaphor or common term for the universe and all within) with his divine light within all bodies.

Satguru continues and says, "kai baar pasario paasaar, sadaa sadaa ik ekankaar" many times has creation been created (the universe been created) only Akaal is forever. This clearly shows that satguru has told us that the universe has been created, destroyed and recreated many times: we are just in one cycle of this creation. And even commenting on other parts of the universe we can't see, Satguru says "kaytay pavan panee baisantar" countless are the airs (atmospheres), waters and fires.

Thus it has been shown Satguru has given Sikhs an understanding of Gurmat that is very scientific and matches the views of contemporary scientists. Very unlike humanity being created out of mud and a human rib.

[Dalvir]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Just some other Science Related Quotes from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (taken from www.realsikhism.com)

#

There are planets, solar systems and galaxies. If one speaks of them, there is no limit, no end. There are worlds upon worlds of His Creation. As He commands, so they exist. He watches over all, and contemplating the creation, He rejoices. Nanak says, to describe this is as hard as steel! (Guru Granth Sahib, 8)

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You Yourself created the earth, and the two lamps of the sun and the moon. (Guru Granth Sahib, 83)

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Neither the sun, nor the moon, nor the planets, nor the seven continents, nor the oceans, nor food, nor the wind-nothing is permanent. You alone, Lord, You alone. (Guru Granth Sahib, 144)

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In the heavenly paradise, in the nether regions of the underworld, on the planet earth and throughout the galaxies, the One Lord is pervading everywhere. (Guru Granth Sahib, 207)

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Many millions are the moons, suns and stars. (Guru Granth Sahib, 275)

#

He created the sun and the moon; night and day, they move according to His Will. (Guru Granth Sahib, 580)

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For endless ages, there was only utter darkness. There was no earth or sky; there was only His command. There was no day or night, no moon or sun; God sat in primal, profound meditation position. There were no food or sources of speech, no air or water. There was no creation or destruction, no birth or death. There were no continents, regions, seven seas, rivers or flowing water. There were no heavenly realms, earth or nether regions of the underworld. There was no heaven or hell, no death or time. There was no hell or heaven, no birth or death, no coming or going in reincarnation. There was no Brahma, Vishnu or Shiva. No one was seen, except the One Lord. There was no female or male, no social class or caste of birth; no one experienced pain or pleasure. There were no people of celibacy or charity; no one lived in the forests. There were no saints or seekers of living in peace. There were no Yogis, no wandering pilgrims, no religious robes; no one called himself the master. There was no chanting or meditation, no self-discipline, fasting or worship. No one spoke or talked in duality. He created Himself, and rejoiced; He evaluated Himself. There was no purification, no self-restraint, no malas of basil seeds. There were no Gopis, no Krishna, no cows or cowherds. There were no tantras, no mantras and no hypocrisy; no one played the flute. There was no karma, no Dharma, no buzzing fly of Maya. Social class and birth were not seen with any eyes. There was no noose of attachment, no death inscribed upon the forehead; no one meditated on anything. There was no slander, no seed, no soul and no life. There was no Gorakh and no Maachhindra. There was no spiritual wisdom or meditation, no ancestry or creation, no reckoning of accounts. There were no castes or social classes, no religious robes, no Brahmin or Kh'shaatriya. There were no burnt offerings, no ceremonial feasts, no cleansing rituals at sacred shrines of pilgrimage; no one worshipped in adoration. There was no Mullah, there was no Qazi. There was no Shaykh, or pilgrims to Mecca. There was no king or subjects, and no worldly egotism; no one spoke of himself. There was no love or devotion, no Shiva or strength - no energy or matter. There were no friends or companions, no semen or blood. He Himself is the banker, and He Himself is the merchant. Such is the Pleasure of the Will of the True Lord. There were no Vedas, Korans, Bibles and no sacred books. There was no recitation of the Holy Scriptures, no sunrise or sunset. The Unfathomable Lord Himself was the speaker and the preacher; the unseen Lord Himself saw everything. When He so willed, He created the world. Without any supporting power, He sustained the universe. He created Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva; He fostered enticement and attachment to materialistic things. How rare is that person who listens to the Word of the Guru's Shabad. He created the creation, and watches over it; His Command is over all. He formed the planets, solar systems and nether regions, and brought what was hidden to manifestation. No one knows His limits. This understanding comes from the Perfect Guru. O Nanak, those who are attuned to the Truth are wonderstruck; singing His Glorious Praises, they are filled with wonder. (Guru Granth Sahib, 1035)

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Night and day, and the stars in the sky shall vanish. The sun and the moon shall vanish. The mountains, the earth, the water and the air shall pass away. Only the Word of the Holy Saint shall endure. (Guru Granth Sahib, 1204)

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He established the earth, the sky and the air, the water of the oceans, fire and food. He created the moon, the stars and the sun, night and day and mountains; he blessed the trees with flowers and fruits. He created the spiritual beings, human beings and the seven seas; He established the three worlds. Guru Amar Daas is blessed with the Light of the One Name, the True Name of the Lord. (Guru Granth Sahib, 1399)

[sher_panjabi]

Q: What is the Sikh account of the creation?

A: The Sikh explanation of creation is much more detailed and true than the story of Adam and Eve etc. Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee describes what was before creation:

Arbd nrbd DuMDUkwrw ]

Drix n ggnw hukmu Apwrw ]

nw idnu rYin n cMdu n sUrju suMn smwiD lgwiedw ]1]

"(Before the creation of the world) for endless eons, there was only utter darkness. There was no earth or sky; there was only the infinite Command of His Hukam. There was no day or night, no moon or sun; Vaheguru sat in primal, (like) in profound undisturbed meditation. ||1||"

(Ang 1035)

The universe did not come into existence by itself. The Creator created it:

swcy qy pvnw BieAw pvnY qy jlu hoie ]

jl qy iqRBvxu swijAw Git Git joiq smoie ]

inrmlu mYlw nw QIAY sbid rqy piq hoie ]3]

“From the True Lord came the air (gases), and from the air came water. From water, He created the three worlds (metaphor or common term for the universe and all within); in each and every heart He has infused His Light. The Immaculate Lord does not become polluted. Attuned to the Shabad, honor is obtained. ||3||”

(Ang 19)

According to Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee the creation was manifested from the Sunn (void) in which the creator eternally existed:

suMn klw AprMpir DwrI ]

Awip inrwlmu Apr ApwrI ]

Awpy kudriq kir kir dyKY suMnhu suMnu aupwiedw ]1]

pauxu pwxI suMnY qy swjy ]

isRsit aupwie kwieAw gV rwjy ]

Agin pwxI jIau joiq qumwrI suMny klw rhwiedw ]2]

“In the Primal Void, the Infinite Lord assumed His Power. He Himself is unattached, infinite and incomparable. He Himself exercised His Creative Power, and He gazes upon His creation; from the Primal Void, He formed the Void. ||1|| From this Primal Void, He fashioned air and water. He created the universe, and the king in the fortress of the body. Your Light pervades fire, water and souls; Your Power rests in the Primal Void. ||2||”

(Ang 1037)

Is life on earth the only life? Did Vaheguru create other universes? Gurbaani tells us:

koit bRhmMf jw ky DRmswl ]

"Vaheguru created millions of universes as Dharamsaals, places to practice righteousness."

(Ang 1156)

jil Qil jIAw purIAw loAw Awkwrw Awkwr ]

There are beings and creatures in the water and on the land, in the worlds and universes, form upon form.

(Ang 463)

There are three distinct functions that Vaheguru continually performs through his creation:

eykw mweI jugiq ivAweI iqin cyly prvwxu ]

ieku sMswrI ieku BMfwrI ieku lwey dIbwxu ]

ijv iqsu BwvY iqvY clwvY ijv hovY Purmwxu ]

“Vaheguru, the One Divine Mother, emanated three functions. One, the Creator of the World; One, the Sustainer; and One, the Destroyer. He makes creation perform these functions to the Pleasure of His Will. Such is His Celestial Order.”

(Ang 7)

SiGuru Granth Sahib jee also tells us that the universe is not permanent:

inis bwsur niKAqR ibnwsI riv ssIAr bynwDw ]

igir bsuDw jl pvn jwiego ieik swD bcn AtlwDw ]1]

"Night and day, and the stars in the sky shall vanish. The sun and the moon shall vanish. The mountains, the earth, the water and the air shall pass away. Only the Word of the Guru shall endure. ||1||"

(Ang 1204)

mÚ 1 ]

n sUr sis mMflo ] n spq dIp nh jlo ]

AMn paux iQru n kueI ] eyku queI eyku queI ]4]

"Neither the sun, nor the moon, nor the planets, nor the seven continents, nor the oceans, nor food, nor the wind-nothing is permanent. You alone, Lord, You alone. ||4||"

(Ang 144)

Furthermore Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee tells us:

keI bwr psirE pwswr ]

“Many times has the creation been created (the universe been created) and expanded.”

(Ang 276)

One question, which someone may ask, is “Who created the Creator?” To Guru jee tell us:

inrBau so isir nwhI lyKw ]

Awip AlyKu kudriq hY dyKw ]

Awip AqIqu AjonI sMBau nwnk gurmiq so pwieAw ]12]

“Vaheguru alone is fearless, who has no destiny written on His head. God Himself is unseen; He reveals Himself through His wondrous creative power. He Himself is unattached, unborn and self-existent. O Nanak, through the Guru's Teachings, He is found. ||12||”

(Ang 1042)

Fundamentally, one must understand and accept that humans cannot understand the limits of God’s creative power, creation and wonder, and nor can the greatness, extent or glory of God be fully accounted in words:

nwnk, vfw AwKIAY, Awpy jwxY Awpu ]22]

O Nanak! The Almighty Lord whom is called Great (by the whole wolrd)! He Himself knows His own Greatness. ||22|| (Meaning: When desribing the account of Vaheguru's Creation the words 'thousands' or 'hundreds of thousands' cannot be used. The Creation is so countless that if we start to write about it the number figues would run out.)

(Ang 5)

nwnk krqy kI jwnY krqw rcnw ]2]

“O Nanak, the Creator alone knows the workings of His creation. ||2||”

(Ang 275)

Thus it has been shown Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee gives Sikhs an understanding of the creation of the world that is very scientific and matches the views of contemporary scientists.

[Brian.Singh]

If we accept that Nothing can be created on it own, so there has to a Creator for the Creation, then if we

apply the same logic to Creator and then the question arries 'WHO CREATED THE CREATOR ???'

:wub: @

[Pakandi baba]

If we accept that Nothing can be created on it own, so there has to a Creator for the Creation, then if we

apply the same logic to Creator and then the question arries 'WHO CREATED THE CREATOR ???'

:wub: @

He can't be created. He exists, and remains to exist! - Many quotes in Gurbani if you choose to look it up

[Raju]

There was no Brahma, Vishnu or Shiva. No one was seen, except the One Lord.

I thought that this 'one God' phenomenon was restricted to Judaism/Christianity&Islam. But it seems to me that sikhism too has rejected all other options outright !

This is strictly my personal opinion, but recently I have reached certain disturbing conclusions about this unitary God because most of the prophets of the Abrahamic religions as well as Sikhism also now as I learn have met extremely violent and tragic ends. As someone said on the net, even Shakazulu (king of Zulu tribe) of South Africa who was a very brave warrior and also believed in this 'one God' met with a very violent end.

Jesus, Mohammad, Sikh gurus etc have all met violent ends, I often wonder if the one God was around why he couldn't protect his children and why he asked for their sacrifice ??

After all we humans believe God to be a nurturer and provider, giver and not a 'taker of human lives through sacrifices' !!! There is a certain dichotomy in this.

[Akali]

There was no Brahma, Vishnu or Shiva. No one was seen, except the One Lord.

I thought that this 'one God' phenomenon was restricted to Judaism/Christianity&Islam. But it seems to me that sikhism too has rejected all other options outright !

This is strictly my personal opinion, but recently I have reached certain disturbing conclusions about this unitary God because most of the prophets of the Abrahamic religions as well as Sikhism also now as I learn have met extremely violent and tragic ends. As someone said on the net, even Shakazulu (king of Zulu tribe) of South Africa who was a very brave warrior and also believed in this 'one God' met with a very violent end.

Jesus, Mohammad, Sikh gurus etc have all met violent ends, I often wonder if the one God was around why he couldn't protect his children and why he asked for their sacrifice ??

After all we humans believe God to be a nurturer and provider, giver and not a 'taker of human lives through sacrifices' !!! There is a certain dichotomy in this.

I think you need to check your facts about the Guru's. Two of the Guru's were martyred and Guru Gobind Singh was stabbed by a Pathan but the rest of the Guru's remained fine. God asks for sacrifice when one states that he is above normal people. Sacrificing for ones belief is the ultimate and proves that you are a Sikh of the SatGuru and not just a closet Singh.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

[Revolutionary]

Jesus, Mohammad, Sikh gurus etc have all met violent ends, I often wonder if the one God was around why he couldn't protect his children and why he asked for their sacrifice ??

You can say the same about Raavan who got killed.. He worshiped Shiva.

What about Marabharat - ALl of them worshipped different Gods.. people like Duryodhan met violent ends.

One God is around everywhere in The creation.

Guru Nanak Dev ji didnt die a violent death. Only 3 out of the 10 did. And all of them did so because they were happy to submit to God's Will. This was a lesson to us to accept anything as God's Sweet Will.

The sacrifice itself created the foundatoin of Sikhi. We had the likes of Guru Nanak Dev Ji to tell us how to live, and the likes of Guru Arjun Dev Ji to tell us how to die - All in one in Guru Granth Sahib Ji!