Rehit?

[International Akaali]

*Edited

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Bhagat Kabir was made in Sarabloh?

He first used the word khalsa. Don't misuse the word Khalsa.

What is your point about the necklace and kirpan? Of course it is karam kaand to wear a necklace kirpan.

Do you agree with the following points from the so called Bhai Daya Singh Rehatnama?

The points are:

1. Godess Durga appeared and 5 pyaras gave attention and then other devtas appeared

2. Mistan (sweet product) was given by Inder

3. Kaal (Shiv) gave knife (not khunda)

4. Chundi gave kesh to fight in war

5. Hanuman gave kashera

6. To make Karah parsaad (Vishnu gave shukker, Mahadev gave atta, and Brahma gave ghee)

7. The Amrit Sanchar banis are the following in Daya Singh Rehatnama: Japuji, Jaap, Chaupai (which one?),

5 Swayas, 5 Pauris of Anand Sahib

8. WahGuru Je Ka Khalsa WahGuru Ji Ke Fateh (not Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh)

9. Satnaam is the Gurmantar

10. It also only says not to eat meat killed by muslims. It doesn't say kutha or halal, it says meat from muslims

11. It says to recite Gurbani all day and not tota rattan of one word.

12. Don't read arbi or farsi (How do we read zafarnama then?)

13. Don't read saastras because you will start following brahmans.

14. It says that go to Abchalnagar (Hajur Sahib) to get your family saved.

15. Don't eat from the hands of a woman

16. Don't live in a city (run away, go to a pind now)

There are a lot of flaws with this rehatnamas. It contradicts a lot.

At the start it talks about how devis and devtas gave kakars and stuff and then it says not to belive in them

later on. Preparing food in sarabloh is mentioned 2-4 times. This rehatnama wasn't written by Bhai Daya

Singh from 5 pyaras. There are reasons and flaws. Things don't make sence. Which ones, know yourself.

Is this the rehatnama you are using as a source?

Or is your Guru someone else. I don't want to offend the great guy but it seems like your Guru is him and not Guru Granth Sahib Ji. You guys just pick and choose. If you want to pick and choose, base it on Gurmat.

Followers of humans are Munmukhs. Following Guru is the way.

[Guest ya]

true

[Guest _singhni_]

YOU MUPPETS ARE SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FUNNY>

ACTUALLY I DONT KNOW IF FUNN'YS THE WORD>

HERE YOU ARE PREACHING ABOUT SO CALLED TAT GURMAT,

EACH OF YOU WITH THEIR OWN VIEWS

BUT

STOP RIGHT THERE>.

PAPI PUT THE QUOTE DOWN FROM GURU GRANTHSAHIB JI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(MAY I NOTE)

bwdu ibbwdu kwhU isau n kIjY ]

baadh bibaadh kaahoo sio n keejai ||

Do not engage in any arguments or debates with anyone.

rsnw rwm rswienu pIjY ]2]

rasanaa raam rasaaein peejai ||2||

With your tongue, savor the Lord's sublime essence. ||2||

EVERYONE TOTALLY IGNORED IT.AND HERES YOU DEBATING ABOUT "TAT GURMAT" YET HOW CAN YOU BE PREACHING ABOUT ANYTHING WHEN YOU TOTALLY IGNORED THIS TUK..

IF YOU THINK/KNOW EACH OF YOU ARE RIGHT, THEN YOU WOULDNT BE SO EAGER TO PERSUADE THE OTHER.ON THE OTHERHAND IF YOU FEEL INSECURE IN YOUR BELIEFS, THEN YOU WILL SEEK TO TRY AND PERSUADE ONE ANOTHER, IN ORDER TO TRY AND SUBSTANTIATE YOUR OWN BELIEFS

LOLLL ANYWAYS I WROTE THSI IN CAPS SO ITS NOT DIFFICULT TO MISS

PLEASE STOP ARGUING AND DO SOMETHING MORE USEFUL WITH YOUR TIME

IF YOU CARRY ON ARGUING THEN EVERYONE IN THIS FORUM WILL KNOW THAT YOUR NOT REALLY INTERESTED IN GRUMAT BUT JUST IN YOUR OWN EGOS

SORRY IF THIS SEEMED LIKE AN EGOTISTICAL POST, BUT I WAS JUS TRYING TO GET A POINT ACROSS

VAHEGURU MAAF KARO

VAHEGURUJIKAKHALSA VAHEGURUJIKIFATEH

[Singh132]

Bhagat Kabir was made in Sarabloh?

He first used the word khalsa. Don't misuse the word Khalsa.

I'm getting tired of your holier than thou, "I am the gatekeeper of Sikhi" attitude. Buddy, get a grip. You're some non-name guy at Ryerson. In Punjabi we say "apni aukaat vich raho".

Khalsa as revealed by Guru Gobind Singh is created out of sarbloh Khanda and bata. There's no doubt. You earlier made a stupid point that did Bhagat Farid eat from sarbloh. I ask, did they keep kakaars? So are those also optional?

You didn't answer whether wearing kakaars to sleep and in the shower is karam kaand. According to your definition it seems it would be.

There are a lot of flaws with this rehatnamas. It contradicts a lot.

At the start it talks about how devis and devtas gave kakars and stuff and then it says not to belive in them later on. Preparing food in sarabloh is mentioned 2-4 times. This rehatnama wasn't written by Bhai Daya

Singh from 5 pyaras. There are reasons and flaws. Things don't make sence. Which ones, know yourself.

That's the problem with pseudo-scholars like you who read 1/2 a book and become experts. The rehitnamas are ALL adultered to some extent. You yourself are saying the rehitnama contradicts. Quite right. The fact that it speaks at one point against Devi/Devtas and then later for them is proof that it has been changed around. Does that mean you totally discard all rehitnamas. No. That'd be stupid and would be EXACTLY what anti-Sikh forces were aiming at when they changed things. You look at Khalsa traditions and seena-baseena rehit and rehitnamas. What matches in all three is accepted.

If we throw out any source that has mistakes or adulteration then we'd have to throw out ALL Sikh literature. Even most puratan saroops of Sri Guru Granth Sahib have extra compositions in them. So according to your logic we should have discarded all the bani too?

Would you be shocked to know that NOT ONE rehitnama names kakaarsi [the only puraatan source to name all 5 is the Bhatt Vehis which say keski is the kakaar]? NOT ONE gives a detailed account of amrit sinchaar vidhi. This rehitnama is considered one of the best sources because it comes very close. It uses some imaginative imagery but the vidhi itself is very close to the one we see today. Even your precious SGPC maryada says to do only 5 pauris Anand Sahib for amrit sinchaars. We have to rely on these puratan sources but do so with some discerning intellect and judgment. Not reject everything as you are trying to do.

A lot of the points you made (I could refute each one but why bother with you?) are wrong. It does not call Satnaam as the Gurmantar. In puratan times Gurmantar was considered very secret and referred to as Satnaam. Satnaam is an adjective for Gurmantar.

Sarbloh is a Rehit of the Khalsa. Besides being mentioned in rehitnamas, Guru Gobind Singh has said "Sarbloh kee rachha hamnai". Why would he say this if Sarbloh were some useless and ordinary material?

You know whats even more funny YOUR SOURCE that you scanned says "In our faith sarbloh is the highest of all materials and is that in which amrit is prepared" j in the footnote. What do you say to that?

If sarbloh were kept only by one person or one Jatha, we might say this is made up. But lets see here: Baba Jawala Singh Harkhowal, Baba Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwale, Akali Kaur Singh jee Nihang, Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee and countless other Gursikhs have kept sarbloh bibek. Were they all wrong but you, our young friend from Ryerson is right and they were all karam kandi brahmins? Give me a break.

Your posts are filled with arrogance. You go about calling people who keep rehit "manmukhs" and even jot vigasi Gursikhs you don't even call "Bhai" like Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh. Even in your last post you called naam simran "tota rattan" or parrot-repetition. Look at yourself in the mirror. When was the last time you got up at amrit vela? What is your spiritual jeevan? I can answer that: someone who posts like you can have NO jeevan. It's a guarantee.

For your own spiritual benefit I suggest you fix yourself up. Stop making comments you're going to have to pay for in Dargah. Every time you say something stupid like in your earlier posts, it's going on your record and mark my words, you will have to pay for it.

[Singh132]

YOU MUPPETS ARE SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FUNNY>

ACTUALLY I DONT KNOW IF FUNN'YS THE WORD>

HERE YOU ARE PREACHING ABOUT SO CALLED TAT GURMAT,

EACH OF YOU WITH THEIR OWN VIEWS

Bhainjee,

I'm not sure what you mean by "muppets" but alright...

If there is a rehit and people are saying it's not according to Gurmat, should we all stay quiet? What if someone new to Gurmat reads it and becomes confused?

If someone is arguing for their own ego it's wrong. If they are arguing for a Gurmat principle then that is a seva.

[Guest _singhni_]

sorry i didnt realise id put that.sorry.

lots of people say things that are not in accordance with gurmat...and everyone has their own idea of gurmat.

paaji to be honest ji, any new sikh who is just coming into gurmat always has a number of different people imposing their views on them. it doesnt help that they are always presented with conflict when asking about a certain rehat.

there will be a certain amount, of course...but if you have stated your view..and soemone is hell bent on arguing with you..and believes the total opposite, then there will be no end to this conflict.

these topics have been discussed countless times, and has anyone come up with an exact answer that they all agree on?? no, everyone has their own views.

we all think we are arguing for gurmat princple, but think about it.."arguing" for "gurmat".doesnt really sound right does it?

those getting into sikhi should look at gurugranthsahibji, and widely acccepted rehats and then make their own views...their not as passive as everyone thinks.theyre not jus gona read something ona message board and accept it as sat bachan.

if you practice, rather than arguing, people will become inspired..and see someone actualy living gurmat rather than fighting about it.ive realised this in the past.

let me give you an example from your post

""I'm getting tired of your holier than thou, "I am the gatekeeper of Sikhi" attitude. Buddy, get a grip. You're some non-name guy at Ryerson. In Punjabi we say "apni aukaat vich raho".""

now even if your views were as per gurmat, anyone even wanting to look at your angle would totally be put off.

and i know its not just you of course, its just you were the only one who responded

i hope no offence was taken

Vaheguru maaf karo

YOU MUPPETS ARE SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FUNNY>

ACTUALLY I DONT KNOW IF FUNN'YS THE WORD>

HERE YOU ARE PREACHING ABOUT SO CALLED TAT GURMAT,

EACH OF YOU WITH THEIR OWN VIEWS

Bhainjee,

I'm not sure what you mean by "muppets" but alright...

If there is a rehit and people are saying it's not according to Gurmat, should we all stay quiet? What if someone new to Gurmat reads it and becomes confused?

If someone is arguing for their own ego it's wrong. If they are arguing for a Gurmat principle then that is a seva.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

If you agree that the rehatnama is adulterated, then you must use Gurbani to prove your stance. Please do so using a Gurbani tukh which says to eat in Sarabloh?

I see one simple tukh:

Baba Hoar Khaana Khushee Khuaar Jit Khaaday Tunn Pee-rreaye Mun Meh Khullay Vekaar.

As for Bhagats keeping 5 Kakkar. Panth wasn't established at that time. Guru Nanak stated the Panth and kakkars have been part of the Panth since then. So don't even go there. Maryada say to keep the Kakkars with us. Also, when sleeping, 5 kakkars stay with us and same goes for when doing isnaan. When doing isnaan, you just keep them with you.

5th Kakkar was given during Guru Hargobiind Sahib Ji. Guru Gobind Singh Ji just finalized everything. Didn't start a new Panth as you and some others like to believe.

As for calling me someone kid from Ryerson. At least I got more education than most of the money collectors. I go to Ryerson because Akaal has given me a brain which works.

Why are you so jealous that a student can preach Gurmat?

What is the issue? You need a tissue?

In the puratan times, it was kirti Sikhs who preached Gurmat. Not some money collecting, property makers.

Read a book called Santa Day Kautak.

Tell me this, where is Bani does it to stay hungry?

Where does it say to follow a nunga saadhu?

Where does it say in Bani to stand on one leg and do bhugtee?

Where does it say in Bani to use magical or yogic powers to levitate?

Yes, Sarabloh is considered uttam in Panth but not to the state you guys take it. Ghor Paap.

Singh132, why don't you just accept that your Guru is Bhai Randhir Singh Ji?

Bhai Randhir Singh said that the Bhagats never got to Sachkhand and that they are stuck in Karam Khund. Then he shows how he got Darshan of Sachkhand. Is he trying to portray himself over Bhagats?

Don't tell me that all Bhagats met Guru Nanak Dev Ji and became Sikhs because Bhagat Farid was gone long before Guru Nanak Dev Ji came. Same thing goes for other 3-4 Bhagats.

Raam Raam kurtaa Sabh Jug Firray, Raam Naa Paaya Jaa-aye.

What does that mean? Isn't it reffering to mantar jaap of 1 word?

Also, why did he run away from the rehit maryada committe? Didn't want to unite the Panth under 1 maryada?

As for getting up at Amritvela. Who starts work at 5:45 in the morning?

Just a cheap shot artist. Don't get mad and angry. Keep it cool and relax. People might have been fooled before due to lack of resources but now Gurbani and Gurmat is available widely. Thanks to printing machines and computers.

Guru Ji also rode a horse and used tora walee guns and used no electricity. Why don't you do the same and live the same way? Why Sarabloh was used and is used within the Panth has been stated many times. If you or your gang fails to understand, tough loss.

Ask Vedanti to issue a hukamnama and say Sarabloh is mandatory. I will accept it. Until then, don't preach a guy's marayda here or go to akj.com to preach it change the name of this website to akjsangat.com.

[Singh132]

If you agree that the rehatnama is adulterated, then you must use Gurbani to prove your stance. Please do so using a Gurbani tukh which says to eat in Sarabloh?

I'll do that after you give me a tuk that says to keep kakaars.

As for calling me someone kid from Ryerson. At least I got more education than most of the money collectors. I go to Ryerson because Akaal has given me a brain which works.

No need to feel defensive about going to Ryerson. My point was you aren't some respected Vidvaan or Sikh scholar. Don't try to act like more than you are. I'm also a university student so no need to feel threatened.

Singh132, why don't you just accept that your Guru is Bhai Randhir Singh Ji?

Because it's not true.

Bhai Randhir Singh said that the Bhagats never got to Sachkhand and that they are stuck in Karam Khund. Then he shows how he got Darshan of Sachkhand. Is he trying to portray himself over Bhagats?

Actually read the books he wrote before making statements that highlight your ignorance. He said that without Guru Nanak the Bhagats could go as far as Karam Khand but to reach Sach Khand Gurmat naam from Guru Nanak is mandatory.

Don't tell me that all Bhagats met Guru Nanak Dev Ji and became Sikhs because Bhagat Farid was gone long before Guru Nanak Dev Ji came. Same thing goes for other 3-4 Bhagats.

Even Bhagat Farid's descendants and scholars agree that the Bhagat Farid who's bani is in Guru Granth Sahib is not the original Farid but his descandant in his line ie. Farid Sani. All the other Bhagats in Guru Granth Sahib met Guru Nanak.

Raam Raam kurtaa Sabh Jug Firray, Raam Naa Paaya Jaa-aye.

What does that mean? Isn't it reffering to mantar jaap of 1 word?

Once again you highlight your utter ignorance. Of course without Gurmat Naam from Satguru jaap is not of much use. The very same salok you quoted says "Gur kai shabad bhedia in bidh vasiaa man aai" Only through the Guru's Shabad ie. Gurmantar is it possible.

As for getting up at Amritvela. Who starts work at 5:45 in the morning?

I don't understand what you mean by this. Amrit Vela is from around 2am-6am. It is the duty of every Gursikh to take advantage of this time. No matter what time they work. My point however was that look at your own jeevan. There is no way you are enjoying the spirituality of Gurmat because what you write is a true reflection of where you are. You call naam abhyaas "totaa ratan" and insult Gursikhs and call random people you don't know "manmukh". You are digging a very deep spiritual hole for yourself.

Guru Ji also rode a horse and used tora walee guns and used no electricity. Why don't you do the same and live the same way? Why Sarabloh was used and is used within the Panth has been stated many times. If you or your gang fails to understand, tough loss.

Once a rehit is established like kirpan or kangha, no matter what people start using, that rehit stays. Guru Sahib used sarbloh for amrit sinchaar. Why not use some other modern material by your logic?

Ask Vedanti to issue a hukamnama and say Sarabloh is mandatory. I will accept it. Until then, don't preach a guy's marayda here or go to akj.com to preach it change the name of this website to akjsangat.com.

Let me get this straight: YOU have a god-given right to preach maryada but no one else? There is a difference of opinion on many things in our Panth. The Akal Takhat Sahib doesn't reject the other maryadas. That's proven by the fact that Akhand Kirtani Jatha has been honoured by the Akal Takhat Sahib and even does smagams there. Same with Taksal. If we had hateful people like you in charge, we'd be in big trouble.

The secret you seem to miss is this: respect and love. You consistently attack other Sikhs and insult them. People like you are the problem in the Panth today.

[Guest Papi]

enough bickering, close this thread already