The Concept Of Karma

[Guest Papi]

i think we are missing her key question

But the actual karma thing does not make sense....how can you be born to be repenting actions...when there was no action in the beginning that caused you to be born...

and i must say this is by far the most complicated question i've heard in my entire life

i still give you the following 2 tuks. these answer your question

Awpn Kylu Awip vrqIjw ]

aapan khael aap varatheejaa ||

He Himself has staged His own drama;

nwnk krnYhwru n dUjw ]1]

naanak karanaihaar n dhoojaa ||1||

O Nanak, there is no other Creator. ||1||

[Guest Dancing Warrior]

This question ties in with the “why are we here? What does it all mean?” in theory it questions the very notion of a higher being and existence and his great play. We understand that we are limited and cannot ultimately explain the unlimited. To have the unshakable answer and proof just messes up the great drama first there has to be confusion and doubt otherwise why would we seek? If you are not confused you do not seek, that means you are settled the worst state to be. The settled being is the unconscious being everything is done unconsciously. Life will just pass unconsciously eating, sleeping, breathing, reproducing these are sufficient for the physical body which is limited. For the conscious being is aware of everything, every breath is conscious, the conscious being is liquefied to its environment it has surpassed the limited unconsciousness of the physical vessel.

When people would ask Gautama the Buddha is there a God? To the believers He would reply “No” and to the non believers he would reply “Yes”. The closest to him would ask him why do you do this? Gautama replied

“If I said Yes to the believers they would settle with their limited religious ideology and never seek further”

“If I said No to the non believers they would settle in their limited lives and never seek further”

“Both the believer and the non believer become the same all they will debate is their limited blind ego to explain the unlimited”

[wannabekaur5]

good thread

[rimmel]

.

[Singh132]

Trying to claim a full understanding of the law of Karma is impossible. Only Vahiguru knows how this system works as he created it and he operates it.

1) Every action we take is karma. Good or bad. I don't know how karma applies to thoughts. But Gurbani tells us

ਜੋ ਜੀਇ ਹੋਇ ਸੁ ਉਗਵੈ ਮੁਹ ਕਾ ਕਹਿਆ ਵਾਉ ॥ ਬੀਜੇ ਬਿਖੁ ਮੰਗੈ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਵੇਖਹੁ ਏਹੁ ਨਿਆਉ ॥੨॥ . This means that whatever is in the mind/heart will grow and empty words have no meaning (if they are not what is in your heart). If you plant poison and then expect it to grow and bear the fruit of amrit (goodness), what justice would that be?

Our actions are born from thoughts. If you repeatedly entertain bad thoughts then no doubt they will sprout into bad action. If you put bad thoughts in your mind then eventually those seeds will sprout and produce a poisonous fruit of evil action.

2) Partly answered above. I think intention does indeed play a role in karma but every action regardless of intent and thought will have a karmic reaction. Every action has a reaction as they say. Vahiguru's justice is complete and perfect however. We need not fear of being unjustly or unfairly punished. ਪੂਰਾ ਨਿਆਉ ਕਰੇ ਕਰਤਾਰੁ ॥ ਅਪੁਨੇ ਦਾਸ ਕਉ ਰਾਖਨਹਾਰੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

3) Good karma have a reaction of brining back good karma. Bad karma have a reaction of brining back bad karma. The ONLY thing that can break this cycle of karma is naam. Jaap of naam destroys karma at a very fast rate. Jaap brings us closer to Vahiguru and constantly washes off our karmic debt.

4) The individual doesn't decide which karma get washed. This is something we have no control over. Jaap of naam is the only thing we can endeavor to do and we should leave the rest up to Vahiguru.

5) If karma were the only thing that determines our life, then Guru Sahib wouldn't have bothered to give us hukams and instructions. Our circumstances may be beyond our control but much of what we do in those circumstances is of our own initiative.

So the message to take to heart is that the only solution to karma is jaap of naam and this will free us from this endless cycle.

[Guest Dancing Warrior]

The karma of thought being consciously calculated but not going through with the action is possible worse than actually doing the action unconsciously spontaneously within your life. The desire being strong enough but never actually committed, not doing or not achieving the desired action during your natural span could result in the karma calculator placing you in a situation to achieve it in your next life.

“be careful what you wish for you may just get it!” :umm:

If we were, say playing tennis and you won ( ye right! ) in anger I came over and hit you over the head that’s one type of karma. If I accidentally hit you with not intention to do so what so ever that’s a different type of karma. If you won and I thought !@*-~{? And just smiled and never said anything that’s the worst type of karma.

The cunning mind being the most terrible of mental attitudes.

All karma how ever we define it in our limited ability is baggage be it good or bad ideally we should want to drop the lot and get out of cyclic birth.

This is just an opinion no offence is deliberately intended :TH:

[rimmel]

.

[Singh132]

I think the point made by Dancing Warrior is a good one. If someone has thoughts and desires, those certainly play into reincarnation. Reincarnation is the opportunity for the soul to continue on the path it has chosen. That's why if my desires are focused on my children or focused on earning wealth, those desires will play a big role in what sort of birth I take in the future.

As for your questions,

1) I don't think good karma cancel bad karma. I think in the long run you create a mix for yourself and if you do many more good karma than bad karma then the mix will be "positive" but the bad still need to be paid. In my understanding the only way to cut or destroy karma is naam.

2) Only Vahiguru knows that.

3) I don't believe everything is already determined or governed for us. We do have the ability to make choices and those choices are the basis for future karma.

[rimmel]

.

[Singh132]

Having a desire to exact revenge on someone or their family seems like the type of thought that would lead to the soul being put in a position to fulfill it's desire. That thief will get the reward for his karma but if you want to be the one to give it to him, it seems like the sort of thing that would lead to maybe another janam to facilitate it. At any rate, a Sikh trying to follow Gurmat wouldn't enter such a trap as s/he wishes sarbat da bhalla and leave the rest to Vahiguru. I'm not at the same time advocating pacifism as if there is someone who is hurting others, a Sikh has a duty to stop it.

"God does everything": in our capacity to make choices the results are still in the hands of God. Nothing happens that he does not want. Trying to think too long about this though simply blows the mind. I don't think our brains are capable of understanding or processing the greatness of God.

Naam: Guru Nanak's gift to humanity is naam. This was obtained from Sachkhand and is the only way to wash karma. When we jap naam, we begin to realise the true nature of who and what we are. Our "man" is the embodiment of the divine light. When we go towards our origin, we become like that which we worship "jaisa seveh tais hoveh". If you're asking how exactly naam washes all karma, I don't know. All I know is that naam is indeed 'magical' in the power that it has. Guru Sahib has told us that "gur ka shabad katai kot karam" and this is the only thing we need to worry about.