Technical Terms Used In Gurbani

[Jagjit Singh]

Thank you Jeeo for this!

[Gurmat Sangeet]

Its based on the shadaj grahm moorchana system, the system of notation that was used before the current saptak scale of indian classical music.

Confused yet?

Ghar refers to the 22 notes of this system....GuruSahib uses 17 of these 22. When there is a ghar at the title of a shabad, it means that just within that shabad, the raag with have a slight variation...meaning that its vadi (most important note) will no longer have the most priority. Instead, the ghar note will have more priority. Therefore, the ghar system in Guru Granth Sahib introduces a variation of the raag in order to render the correct mood in accordance to the message of the particular shabad.

correct answer. Can the poster please correct the post as this is incorect information being given, especially to those who are new to these terms. Lets eliminate misunderstandings not create them.

[ghorandhar]

Its based on the shadaj grahm moorchana system, the system of notation that was used before the current saptak scale of indian classical music.

Confused yet?

Ghar refers to the 22 notes of this system....GuruSahib uses 17 of these 22. When there is a ghar at the title of a shabad, it means that just within that shabad, the raag with have a slight variation...meaning that its vadi (most important note) will no longer have the most priority. Instead, the ghar note will have more priority. Therefore, the ghar system in Guru Granth Sahib introduces a variation of the raag in order to render the correct mood in accordance to the message of the particular shabad.

correct answer. Can the poster please correct the post as this is incorect information being given, especially to those who are new to these terms. Lets eliminate misunderstandings not create them.

Thanks for writing these veechar on ghar. Veer gurmat sangeet jee or the other veer/bhen jee's who wrote this, could you please give me some referances so I can read up more on your understanding of Ghar. Ive never come across this interpretation of Ghar. Is this claimed by all bidwaans of gurmat sangeet? like Is there a consensus? All Gurmat sangeets books ive read have not made this point. If you could send me your sources, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks.

[Gurmat Sangeet]

Thanks for writing these veechar on ghar. Veer gurmat sangeet jee or the other veer/bhen jee's who wrote this, could you please give me some referances so I can read up more on your understanding of Ghar. Ive never come across this interpretation of Ghar. Is this claimed by all bidwaans of gurmat sangeet? like Is there a consensus? All Gurmat sangeets books ive read have not made this point. If you could send me your sources, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks.

Give me some time to gather my sources and i will definitly get back to you.

A few more points.

Chnth or Chunt in gurbani as stated is a six lined verse. In gurmat Sangeet it is IMPERATIVE that the whole shabad is sung all in one go i.e. there is no asthaee, so for example you sing the first line as your asthaee then you sing the rest of the shabad after each line you cannot go back to the first line.

The rahao line as stated is correct, where its the central focus of the shabad and we must use it as the asthaee, because what we do nowadays is grab any line of the shabad and use it as the asthaee, when in fact what were doing is for example singing the answer before the question which makes no gramatical sence and alters the structure of gurbani.

[JustME]

wow..............i didnt know that about the "rahao" line thats chardi kalah

thank u for sharing

[ghorandhar]

Thanks for writing these veechar on ghar. Veer gurmat sangeet jee or the other veer/bhen jee's who wrote this, could you please give me some referances so I can read up more on your understanding of Ghar. Ive never come across this interpretation of Ghar. Is this claimed by all bidwaans of gurmat sangeet? like Is there a consensus? All Gurmat sangeets books ive read have not made this point. If you could send me your sources, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks.

Give me some time to gather my sources and i will definitly get back to you.

A few more points.

Chnth or Chunt in gurbani as stated is a six lined verse. In gurmat Sangeet it is IMPERATIVE that the whole shabad is sung all in one go i.e. there is no asthaee, so for example you sing the first line as your asthaee then you sing the rest of the shabad after each line you cannot go back to the first line.

The rahao line as stated is correct, where its the central focus of the shabad and we must use it as the asthaee, because what we do nowadays is grab any line of the shabad and use it as the asthaee, when in fact what were doing is for example singing the answer before the question which makes no gramatical sence and alters the structure of gurbani.

Veer jee you didnt reply regarding the ghar interpretation. If you could that would be good, i was really interesting in learning more about the meaning you have made of Ghar.

Thanks

[bikhari_tere]

WJKK WJKF

Firstly, let me congratulate starter of this thread who has put in a lot of effort to bring to our attention these technical terms.

I think in this day and age, it is very important that where we teach our kids Punjabi, Gatka, Sikh virtues...etc, that we also teach them Kirtan as it was originally sung, in Raags, partaals... as the Gurus did, which means understanding these terms and how Gurbani has been written - and this has been a great help.

Can I please, in all respect and fairness, add on to the following:

Quote: ''Unfortunately, Kirtan today has been commercialized to such an extent that most Raagees (Kirtan singers) are only focused and concerned with making quick money. This is commercialization and exploit of the faith. We all are to be blamed for this condition. Because, we do not perform Kirtan ourselves as envisioned by the fifth Guru, Sri Guru Arjan Dev Jee. Instead we hire the so called professionals to sing it for us. The results are in front of us.''

Veerji is right in saying that 'We all are to be blamed for this condition'.

Our knowledge of Kirtan seems to have deteriorated immensly such that if we hear Ragees singing Raags and Partaals we just dont get it and end up not getting any anand. Understanding the shabad is one thing and on top of that the Raag too? ...thats too much!

This in turn is very difficult for the Ragees as they know that if they start a Raag in a taal other than the famous Kehrwa (4 beats), 90% of the sangat leave the hall.

Over time the Ragees seem to have changed their 'style' of Kirtan to more suit the majority of Sangat. If the sangat is happy, there are chances that you can get some bheta and this would in turn help in raising your family. In any case, a Ragee has to accept what he is given after working - you dont do that in any other profession. Not all about making quick money!

Are Ragees expected not to get any money or you can give them what you want at the end? Does that raise their children, pay their school fees, other expenses?

During Guru Arjan Dev Ji's time, the Rababees were highly respected and appreciated and the Guru himself, being a great singer and having Raag knowledge/understanding second to none, was a great fan of them - highly rewarded too. Nowadays... ?

Guru Ji, in his time, unquestionably, did great things that would benefit the whole Panth. One of those was to get the whole Panth doing Kirtan. The circumstance of Rababees doing a strike (whether it was His will or coincidence) was a good opportunity to give the whole panth Kirtan Di Daat. Otherwise Kirtan would have stayed a professional and specialised thing for the Rababees.

That also helped the poor, because if you don't have any skill and you praised the Guru you will be rewarded - hence Kirtan bheta. The so called professionals you get nowadays are not professionals as they go for the bheta more than learning Kirtan the proper way.

Bhu chuk khima karni

WJKK WJKF

[KEERPA]

Kewl thread and as Im starting out learning kirtan I will start at what is real and grow from that. (Im not going to bury a potato and expect a sweet mango tree to grow )

All the information is useful (even the incorrect) because it better shapes the current status of kirtan from some people that do kirtan in any tune they want just to sing Gurbani etc.

I want to get a dilruba and learn from that basis of Gurmat Sangeet.

ChardhiKala :D

Vaheguru

[Redoptics]

On 8/13/2009 at 4:03 AM, KEERPA said:

Kewl thread and as Im starting out learning kirtan I will start at what is real and grow from that. (Im not going to bury a potato and expect a sweet mango tree to grow )

All the information is useful (even the incorrect) because it better shapes the current status of kirtan from some people that do kirtan in any tune they want just to sing Gurbani etc.

I want to get a dilruba and learn from that basis of Gurmat Sangeet.

ChardhiKala

Vaheguru

Bump